You haven't played ARC. Who the heck would want to Raging Strike and Hawk's Eye on Puncture 2? Multishot/Trifurcate + RS + HE = 6 times the damage of a normal shot, or 9 times if they all crit. This goes to show how ridiculous your post is.Quote:
Originally Posted by pool842
Auto attack: A complete battle system
Printable View
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03-11-2011, 05:48 PMMariyaShidou
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03-11-2011, 06:03 PMAmyRaeTBH I'm not sure Multi-shot has much of a future, anyway. It's a tad overpowered considering its use as a seriously damaging first strike that produces a heap of follow-up TP. It's reminiscent of how Pentathrust used to work back in early FFXI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danniedeadboy
I'm not saying I want it gone, but I can't see a future where it doesn't get nerfed at some point and in some way. -
03-11-2011, 09:41 PMSpudrik
Battle regimen would probably be used a lot more if we gained auto-attack as it would allow time for tactical descision as well as communication. Would make a battle more immersive than the current spam fest
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03-11-2011, 10:53 PMweeble
there is nothing wrong with not having auto attack ..for the love of God please don't add auto attack se. it's not really a huge spam like some have said. and u still need to pay attention to u'r gage less u'r that mele that didn't have enough for provoke or to add a battle regimen quick enough cause u'r a one button smashing. besides this the part i love about it, it removes all the leechers, the half afk'ers, the duel botters, and anyone that does these are brought to light in seconds. fact i was one that liked where the very first sp system was going, they should of fixed that one not brought us a version of ffxi exp system again. please se don't bring back all the bad things of ffxi without the good and taking out the good of ffxiv and leavign the bad stuff. again no thanks please for auto attack, this game has already aloud players to watch a majillion hours of tv while playing with u'r crafting don't do it to the battle system too lol.
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03-11-2011, 11:40 PMAlcideTHIS^Quote:
Originally Posted by weeble
The whole battle system penalizes spammers, how the hell can people not see that??? -
03-12-2011, 08:07 AMkukurumeiThere are actually more of them out there you know..assuming they didn't slowly leave with everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by weeble
and 1111231111 it does work quite well. Just because you want to do 1234512345 doesn't make the first any less effective.
It was very easy to realize that speed of getting an attack in out weights the the benefits of actually thinking. Spam that attack, heal if it hurts to much, do a few TP attacks, repeat. -
03-12-2011, 10:29 AMLeonesaurus
I agree.
Add the "option"for the player to go into auto-attack mode (FF XI) spam an attack routine until the enemy is dead is perfect for players looking to farm for hours for materials, or who are just not in the mood for fancy fighting for particular reasons. But, as soon as they want to get serious and start doing more complex actions, they can turn off auto-attack with the press of a button and be able to enter commands again.
In the end, you have a WIN-WIN situation where FF XI and FF XIV players are both happy and have more gameplay choices to choose from. I hope they implement a feature like this for us in the near future! -
03-12-2011, 12:41 PMDargoth_Draconia
In the letters it said they are working on an Auto-attack feature so it will make it more like FFXI, so we just may see the stamina bar going out the door, that or normal attacks won't use the stamina bar.
Taken from another one of my post but has to do with this one as well. -
03-12-2011, 06:51 PMChiefCurraheei'll say it againQuote:
Originally Posted by kukurumei
With the current UI, I feel that it's too cumbersome NOT have some sort of auto attack.
especially with a game pad, and when the PS3 version is released this is what people will complain about.
as of now this is how battle goes:
Basic attack --> --> --> --> --> TP SKILL <-- <-- <-- <-- <-- Basic attack <up> --> --> --> JOB ABILLITY <down> <-- <-- <-- BASIC ATTACK BASIC ATTACK BASIC ATTACK --> --> --> TP SKILL
Thats 8 actions which takes 29 button presses.
Most of that can be avoided by using strictly a keyboard and 8 actions only take as many button presses.
Adding Auto attack won't necessarily reduce the amount of button presses it takes to navigate the current battle UI but allow a less frantic pace to navigation.
you can rely on Auto attack to build your TP while you navigate the tabs for your next skill.
back in alpha the pace of battle was much slower, where attacks took 5-10 seconds (no lag) this allowed time to choose your next attack the battle UI was much more manageable. When they updated the combat system in Beta they didn't touch the battle UI. It's time for a change. -
03-12-2011, 07:03 PMSaberlilyI agree with this^Quote:
Originally Posted by RyneM
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03-12-2011, 07:23 PMAlcideLOLQuote:
Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee
You know you can move your actions, don't you? -
03-12-2011, 09:21 PMMariyaShidouI don't know about you but this is how I do it at NM as a LNC:Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee
Speed Surge II -> Invigorate II -> Full Thrust -> Full Thrust -> Macro 1 BR shout -> Keen Flurry -> Raging Strike -> Ferocity -> Hawk's Eye -> Macro 2 BR activate -> (Feint) -> Full Thrust -> Full Thrust -> Twisting Vice/Moon Rise II (depends on what I used back in BR) -> (Feint) -> Full Thrust -> Full Thrust -> Skewer II -> (Feint) -> Twisting Vice/Moon Rise II (If I didn't have to Feint)
That's my one cycle, depends on my Stamina available I would throw in more Stamina-less buff. The best part is I only use one bar. -
03-12-2011, 10:06 PMChiefCurrahee/sarcasmQuote:
Originally Posted by Alcide
oh you can?......
On my ability bar I have my first bar filled with my most commonly used attacks. On my #2 bar I have my enhancing and buff abilities on bar #3 I have my AoE attacks.
(keep in mind " > " is right button press " < " left button press in this post. )
I usually stick to my first bar Unless of course Protect wears off, or Shock Spikes or I need Speed Surge back up then It's:
Full Thrust (up) > > > Protect > Shock Spikes (down) < < < < Full Thrust > Skewer II > Feint < < Full Thrust
21 Button presses for 7 actions
Even is all these skills are in a row it looks like this:
Full thrust > Protect > Shock Spikes < < Full Thrust > > > Skewer II > Feint < < < < Full Thrust
to do 7 actions it takes 19 button presses. Thats with all the skills lined up in a row.
What would Auto Attack do in this situation?
Basic attacks (Light Thrust Heavy Thrust and Full Thrust) will become your auto attack
SO it now looks like this
(auto attack) Protect > Shock Spikes (auto attack ) > Skewer II > Feint (Auto attack)
7 button presses for a total of 7 actions.
Dealing with a mouse and K/B and pressing 1 2 3 4 5 1 is fine and dandy, but you aren't dealing with just keyboard gamers with this game. In the future You'll have PS3 users who will be complaining of this as they will use the controller as their #1 input.
Adding auto attack to create a less hectic system is the best middle ground solution for controller (PS3/ some PC) users VS K/B mouse users.
People have complained about no one chatting in FFXIV, maybe one of the side effects of auto attack will be more free time to type a few words and let auto attack take a round or two.
as far as voice chat. When was the last time you were on PSN or Xboxlive and didn't have some kid cussing up a storm or some ignorant person throwing racial slurs left and right? Or the person who has a domestic argument with a open mic? Or the person who's open mic is nothing but static? The only time I've had had any tolerable VoIP experiences was with my LS over ventrillo and even then there were times when I just wanted to turn it off. Lets not even mention those people who don't like to talk on vent and would rather type what do you do about them? -
03-12-2011, 10:36 PMAlcideYou can use macros for buffs, when you press the macro button on the pad the position of the cursor is resetted so you get rid of most of the unnecessary movements.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee
Also as a Lancer I don't need all of my skills equipped all of the times (actually being able to equip everything you have is one of the biggest issues imho, but that's another topic) so I use to set my action bar in different ways for different occasions trying to lower to the minimum the movements.
For Instance on NMs I never use Feint, so there's no need to equip it. I usually equip only 2 or 3 we per NM, so my action bar looks like this:
Invigorate II
Full thrust - WS - WS - WS - Keen Flurry - Ferocity II - Hawk's Eye - Speed Surge
Comrade in Arms II
All the accuracy and attack buffs are on a singular macro, I put them in the middle so I can check their cool down, everything else is right next to Full thrust. -
03-12-2011, 10:52 PMChiefCurraheeSpeed Surge II (1) Invigorate II (2) Full Thrust (3) Keen Flurry (4) Raging Strike (5) Ferocity (6) Hawk's Eye (7) Feint (8) Twisting Vice/Moon Rise II (9) Skewer II (0)Quote:
Originally Posted by MariyaShidou
So you press: 1 2 3 3 (macro) 4 5 6 7 (macro) 8 3 3 9 8 3 3 0 8 9.
18 button presses for 18 actions +2 macro presses
With auto attack you would press 1 2 (auto attack) (auto attack) <macro> 4 5 6 7 <macro> 8 (auto attack) (auto attack) 9 8 (auto attack) (auto attack) 0 8 9
12 button presses + 2 macros
On a game pad it's a nightmare!
1 > 2 > 3 3 (macro) > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 (macro) > 8 < < < < < 3 3 > > > > > > 9 < 8 < < < < < 3 3 > > > > > > >0 < < 8 > 9
52 button presses for 18 actions + 2 macro presses
with auto attack : (each slot number -1 because full thrust is taken out i.e. "4" becomes "3", "5" becomes "4" ect ect)
1 > 2 (auto attack) (auto attack) [macro] > 3 > 4 >5 > 6 [macro] > 7 (auto attack) (auto attack) > 8 < 7 (auto attack) (auto attack) > > 9 < < 7 > 9
25 button presses +2 macro presses -
03-12-2011, 10:55 PMChiefCurraheeI've been playing this game since alpha 1, I know how to play the game....Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcide
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03-12-2011, 11:13 PMAlcideBut it seems you don't know how to set the action and macro bar, because it's not a nightmare it's perfectly fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee
The only problem ppl are having with the lack out auto attack is the spam of normal attacks, wich clearly you're not doing so everything's fine -
03-12-2011, 11:57 PMChiefCurraheeIt's not about the spamming of abilities but the navigation of the action bar. Read the last few of my posts (because it seems you have not) and tell me everything is fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcide
It takes nearly two times as many presses of a button to result in half as many actions! It's absurd!
to change between 2 actions it takes four button presses of a gamepad 1 <right> 2 <left> 1.
If one were an auto attack you would only press 1 button. (auto attack) "1" (auto attack)
by your example your action bar is set up like so:
Invigorate II
Full thrust - WS - WS - WS - Keen Flurry - Ferocity II - Hawk's Eye - Speed Surge
Comrade in Arms II
let say you start to engage a mob.
Invigorate II <down> Full Thrust Full Thrust Full Thrust > WS < Full Thrust > > WS > WS < < < Full Thrust < < Hawk's Eye < Ferocity II < < WS < < Full Thrust > WS.
Lets say thats the course of your fight.
you did 14 actions
On a game pad that translates to 31 button presses.
replace full thrust as an auto attack your action bar would look like this:
Invigorate II
WS - WS - WS - Keen Flurry - Ferocity II - Hawk's Eye - Speed Surge
Comrade in Arms II
You engage a mob.
Invigorate II <down> (auto attack | auto attack | auto attack) WS (auto attack) > > WS > WS (auto attack) > > > Hawke's eye < Ferocity II < < WS (auto attack) < WS
Your character took 14 actions ( 6 auto attacks, 8 inputted attacks) it took 19 presses of a gamepad button instead of 31.
19 VS 31! do that for 5 fights. do that for 10, Do that for a hour!
It's not about spamming actions, or having to spam the "1" button. It's about creating a less hectic navigation of the action bar. It creates less work for the player to have to constantly active. Less work doesn't mean slower combat or less actions taken. It gives the player a chance to set up for their next attack, breath a little between presses of a button.
If you read my initial post over again, my idea isn't slow paced battle. You can spam all the action you want as long as you have the TP and Stamina to do so. I'm just basically proposing that your TP building actions (basic attacks) are replaced by auto attack to free up the user of the chore that is navigating the action bar. -
03-13-2011, 01:43 AMAlcide
I already read you posts ad as I said, the navigation is not a big deal if you set your actions and macros well
Now i'll show you my pattern:
fisrt buff's macro 2x full thrust; start br with full thrust; second buff's macro > WS > WS < < full thrust
Invigorate and Speed Surge on the first macro, all the other buffs on the second.
11 actions, 12 buttons pressed.
Also all of the movement are done during BR while I wait for the others to stack their skills, so i'm not even wasting time. But even if you have to navigate more in the action bar i can't see how it's stopping you from thinking what you have to do, you're just moving a cursor, it doesn't imply a big effort...
The auto attack a la FFXI/WoW/AION doesn't fit this game at all, it's just a useless dot. -
03-18-2011, 12:59 AMReika
There are quite a few more tactics involved than spamming 1 or 2 or whatever. I have learned that doing that only leaves me out of stamina for more important skills like Provoke, Sentinel, etc. Plus another good tactic to the current system is to start a battle regimen when you are nearly out of stamina, this lets your stamina bar's recover while others join the battle regimen.
Auto attack is unnecessary, Just adapt to the current system in place. It just needs improvements such as lag times and animation of attacks. -
03-18-2011, 01:13 AMkukurumeiWay to put in some of the badly need tweaking skills... sentinel which takes half a bar and last for 10 seconds?Quote:
Originally Posted by Reika
And a heavy stab 3x will do more damage and hate then provoke (though the provoke trait is non standard) does most of the time. Most of them falling under "auto attack".
You're not going to bring anyone to liking a system they're not liking like this, auto attack or no auto attack.
It's still "spam" trained spam is still spam. 111234 is spam. 234111345 is still spam. The sequence of unnecessary actions make the game a race to do as many action in as little time as possible. Throw in quick tactics for spice.
It is not, no matter how you explain it, selecting the best action for the situation. Sure we don't want to slow it down to a chess game, but no one wants to learn how to juggle, cook, and play chess at the same time.
Auto attack is a short cut to equalizing the playing field via stats. Like using a calculator on a math test. The material of the test is what's important, not the accuracy. Making a stupid mistake because you carried your 4 wrong doesn't mean you don't know the material, it just means you made a stupid mistake doing basic multiplication.
I'll reiterate how I think a system would take place.
All skills should be split into 3 types, auto-activate skills, Stamina skills, and TP skills.
Light/Heavy thrust, etc should be put under auto-activate skills You can even create a system where you can change skills on the fly in battle. Mages can get new skills like "charge" or defense for various effects, like MP recover or HP recover.
Stamina skills would be the bread and butter skills which would have a timer and stamina requirement, the "game changer skills"
TP skills would not be on stamina requirement but rather TP, almost like the FF11, which can also help the BR/SC situations and we again can ration them, not like now with the TP spam all over the place (FF11 before the TP nerf)
So the battle system should then be push back to only needing to watch stamina and cool downs, and occasionally tp, but very rarely do you have to constantly make attacks to be useful. -
03-18-2011, 01:34 AMReika
Sentinel lasts for more than 10 seconds... if you are a Gladiator or have Swordsmanship. Provoke is not a trait, and does not do damage.
Automated battle systems will only serve to aid botters and put people to sleep. -
03-18-2011, 01:51 AMkukurumeithe traits as in properties...Quote:
Originally Posted by Reika
and provoke is well behind heavy stabbing stuff currently.
And we already have botters(what's left of the community anyway) and people are already leaving. It's like trying to convince people would to skip town when everyone is on the road out already.
Not sure how an automated attack would help botters. Nothing differs pressing macro 1 every 10-seconds to a bot script. Heck bot scripts would be infinitely easy no matter what skills you stick in. WoW bots could beat you in a PvP, because they have close to zero lag time in cooldown management. -
03-18-2011, 02:08 AMReikaHeavy stab does not have as much Eminity gain as you would believe. Heavy Slash beats it, and costs as much stamina as Provoke, Sentinel, Aegis Boon, Deflection, Disorient, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by kukurumei
Why don't we just ask them to make this game just like WoW and Rift (both are exactly alike) since so many people have to bring up WoW all the time when comparing. Let us bring the entire immature player population over while they are at it. Make it a game all the lazy douche bags love to infest.
Lack of auto attack gives FFXIV a more into an action-based combat system other MMO's lack. To complain about spamming means to complain about every MMO every created. In WoW and Rift you spam instant skills with only a .5-1sec global cooldown and short cooldowns like 5 or 6 seconds, In Aion you spam chain skills, so on and so forth. In sense, they are still 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 2 (the current for Paladin, Rogue, Death Knight, blah blah). FFXIV just has you spamming in a way you wont do any damage unless you're awake. -
03-18-2011, 02:36 AMHonz
I like the current battle system, but it could use some tweaks.
Introduce a haste like spell to conjurers or a passive haste trait to any DoW/M. The stamina bar works very well with the current BR/SC system. If adding auto-attack meant removing normal attacks (eg. spirit dart, light shot, heavy strike, etc.) they would have to revamp the BR system as well since normal attacks play a big part in them. -
03-18-2011, 08:27 AMkukurumeiNo I can afk ff14 just fine with macros, it doesn't take that much skill, and it surely doesn't help that it's shallow. The problem with your take is that those are PvP oriented game and FF14 is PvE oriented games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reika
let's face it AIs are stupid. All it would take me is, 11245112 and it's done. Macro help some of the more easier combinations and it's more or less a done deal.
The other games of WoW origin, no not all of them are 11241 but at least they are pvp oriented so that people can actually "feel" the need to hone hand eye coordinations. Thats why they can jump around dodge and move like idiots because the opponent is not an AI and have the ability to disrupt actions.
None of that exist in FF14. No AI can take the place of actually opponent that makes spam less spammy. They're AI. MMO AI no less.
And Aion...heh it's funny you mentioned the most resent let down of MMO community.
Then we're in luck, people aren't thrilled with BR anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honz
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03-18-2011, 10:30 AMReikaWho seriously makes macros so they can do battle in their sleep? If i find one of them in my behest I'm kicking them out...Quote:
Originally Posted by kukurumei
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03-18-2011, 11:57 AMkukurumeiEven slimming down to 8 man, behest is still as easy as pressing macros or worse, just get a key sequence program which is a mini bot script. Logitech even provides those straight from the HW side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reika
Did you truly have a blindfold over your eyes? It's been going on since forever. Doesn't take much to realize pressing buttons really fast over and over again, is...programable. -
03-19-2011, 12:54 PMLinnearThis is my favorite post on this thread as it is the only one that tries to explain why SE does not have an auto attack. I have tried to think of a solid reason for not having it and the anti bot/afk progression appears to be the only reason for it. You lose a lot of interesting game mechanics for not having one and gain very little for excluding it as far as I can see, other than making it harder to bot/afk. On this thread so far, I have seen people trying to figure out neat ways to implemlent an auto attack system and them being shot down without providing a reason for not having it other than the game is not that spammy without it. Personally I don't think that is a viable arguement as all it does is say that you can work withen the current system other then explain why the system is good. When you making a decision such as auto attack / not auto attack, you need to figure out what each one provides to the game experience and I don't see many +s for the current system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reika
All allusions to FFXI and comments about how an auto attack should be left to FFXI is a wast of forum space and time to read becuase it does not aruge the reason for it in FFXIV on any merit or metric. So if you want to reply to this post, please try to provide some detailed reason othar that my rotation is super cool and I don't spam go back to XI.
Ok, now that is said, my personal problem with the lack of auto attack is the reduction in weapon choices and advantages you get from different weapon types. I might be missing something but I really dislike the fact that as a Glad, my dagger action takes as much stamina as my sword...... this hurts my brain when I think about it and it takes something away form the game that I love in other games. I like the concept of weapon speeds and the stats attributed to them and such. I also like running around with 5 weapons in my inventory for various mobs and situations and scenarios. I do not want my decisison between a dagger and a sword to be which ever one is higher level..... I want sword A and sword B to have more differences than stats, I want weapon speeds! it may seem like a small change but personally I see it as a big loss.
Noone has mentioned this yet but gear alotments and the way that stats are assigned to gear is also uninteresting to me. In many games you can set your gear depending on what aspect of your character you want to focus. I don't see much of that in FFXIV, I will admit that SE needs to fix a LOT in the game before getting around to it, but at the moment I find the armoury system lacking. I want a decision in gear to be lose 10% auto attack for 5% in two abilities, but that does not seem to happen right now, once again I may be missing something, but without weapon speed this nuance appears to be lost.
In short, why is having no auto attack good?
Why is having an auto attack bad? other than to stop bots and afking.
I can see a couple of advantages in having one, please provide a counter arguement for not. -
03-19-2011, 03:14 PMkukurumei
I still don't see how any attempt to stop bots can stem from auto attack. Bots scripts are fully capable of pressing 1 in conjunction with 2, 3, 4, and 5.
That's like saying I'll stop people stealing money by having my room at the end of the hallway instead of the beginning of the hallway. -
03-19-2011, 04:52 PMLinnear
The difference is the volume of damage that can be done without instruction, if you can take 100% of a low level mobs health without scripting anything other than a single attack command, it is harder to scan for bots by parsing the commands given, it basically makes the admins job easier if you have to hit the same button over and over.
In your own example if your listening for footsteps, it is better to put your room at the end of the hall, as it gives you more steps to listen for.
It is a good point and brings the only posative I can see about not having an auto attack in question, but it does not respond to either of my inquiries. -
03-19-2011, 05:26 PMkukurumeiThat's utterly stupid. because first of all, easy enemies aka farming enemies, people would script a macro that put 1 x10 anyway. No one smart or stupid farms with both hands or eyes on the screen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Linnear
secondly, that makes it even harder to catch botters because it would increase your false positives 1000%. Thus making it harder for admins to catch more botters because for every one you get wrong, you let another one sneak away.
And by your excuse, listening to more foot steps means that every echo of people walking would lead to more powerful equipment to be run 24/7, need more maintenance, and need more guards to constantly check the trip wire. And most likely alert any real criminals of your security in the process. How many times would that security trigger a day? Dozens, hundreds. Walking around a hallway, what about sneakers, or boots, or double backing...insanely illogical.
By the same line of irrational thinking it's better to have auto attack to catch bots because if a bot decides auto attack is enough to win the fight, they will always do one action, which a normal person even afk will have deviations in pattern.
Less actions actually make it easier to catch botters because you have an easier time filtering and finding patterns.
In the end it's the most naive stupid excuse, and if it's true, then no wonder bots roam the wild so easily.
A better way to stop bots, is and always will be community initiative, follow by pattern matching or otherwise statistics, then followed by a sting operation.
Aka, real police work. You find a bot(s) based on community query, you observe it's patterns(day and time, length of hours, movement style, reaction speed), then you run it through a statistically pattern matcher, and then when you're confident you sting all the matches simultaneously before botters realize the sting and change their scripts.
Anyone, anywhere will tell you if you want to find a link between thousands of traits, you don't want to find the most generic, you find the most specific.
If even a tiny bit is ever related to the reason no Auto attack was conceived, people needs to get fired fast. Developers who can't realize their own pitfalls needs to be replaced before they caused other problems in the system. -
03-19-2011, 07:01 PMChiefCurrahee
though it's my opinion I feel that the benefits of an auto attack system far out way the cons presented in this thread.
aside from auto attack freeing up player input for the most basic of attacks, It can make way for gear player enhancements. Such as low damage weapons having higher rate of attack speed, like a previous post said.
On the line of defense people are taking on botters. They are already established in game. Adding auto attack will not bring more to the table but maybe give SE an easier time finding who is botting since they already have developed technology based around an auto attack system with FFXI.
The issues of UI navigation while using a game pad, just isn't functional or fun for that matter. Having to press left 4 times to get back to your "light stab" command to hold down right to get to your TP move, to press left twice to issue your "shield" command. It's fine for a fight or two, but play for an hour and you get tired. When the PS3 version is released I think if they stick with this battle system this will be the number one complaint.
For all intents and purposes we are in a second open beta phase. This is the time to try new systems, to go out on a limb and see if something works. The PS3 release is the 2nd chance for FFXIV that no other MMO will get. So lets be willing to try something out to see if it works instead of crashing and burning a 2nd time.
Edit:
They have made changes to the battle system since Alpha which was a GOOD thing. FFXIV's battle system was by in large inspired or copied from a game called White Knight Chronicles. A PS3 game which reviewers bashed the combat system for being slow (FFXIV alpha version) boring and tedious.
Now the difference between WKC and FFXIV is the speed. It's still boring and tedious.
Maybe we can take care of the tedious by having your basic attacks issued as Auto attacks, and then spice up the TP and skills to get rid of the boring. -
03-19-2011, 07:34 PMLinnear
Thanks Chief good call, remove the boring spice up the combat system and try some new things beucase they do not have the player base to say this is a real game yet.
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03-21-2011, 09:09 AMShikyoeverything u said is bs i do play the game and have played xi and the battle system in this is not a good one so if in your eyes exp gives u the right to have a opinion then i can give mine. FF fans have a right to say what they do and dont like rather you played for a day or since the game came out ppl know what they do and dont like and thats what these forums allow ppl to do voice thoes opinions, so shove that bs back where it came. I played xi for years and stalked this game from day one and if its wrong its just wrong, if u think nothing is wrong with the game when its back up play it as is and enjoy it as much as you can because even SE knows as it is now isnt good enough buddy so dont bash others for knowing that as well.... auto attack would be a great benefit to this game, time will tell if SE takes good notes and are actually listening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcide
If you dont like the fact that ppl were giving a chance and stage to speak there minds how about YOU go else where ....... -
03-21-2011, 01:01 PMsylvestew
Why does it matter if they put auto attack in if they give you the option to turn it off
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03-21-2011, 01:50 PMOmegaNovaiosYou have to SPAM if you want to do the most damage possible within a time limit. This is why it's an issue. It isn't wise to emphasize the most inferior action in the game to be be extremely concentrated on and the most effective path to dealing the most damage possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcide
Also the game is so easy that it doesn't matter how you kill a mob, making it the easiest path as well. Thus what is the advantage to killing it another way? -
03-21-2011, 01:53 PMOmegaNovaiosSo you don't disturb mobs that are being controlled with a crowd control effect such as sleep and don't have to disengage/turn your back to the mob like in FFXI.Quote:
Originally Posted by sylvestew
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03-21-2011, 02:31 PMLinnear
I dislike the spam vs non spam arguement, hitting 1111111 or 1511251 is basically the same thing from keyboard perspective. for arguements sake lets just assume that hitting 4 different buttons provides more tactics and is more fun than hitting the same one 4 times and it is also more usefull.
What sucks about it is that for game pad users is uncomfotable and annyoing. They increased the pace of entering combat commands, but the problem with that is for gamepad play they might have went overboard. Yes maccros and such can help reduce the command load but game pads still suffer from the current system. Like is said before hitting 1111 or 1451 makes a BIG difference to game pad players. If you remove the need to hit 1 then it becomes ... or 45. What you will end up with actually better beasue it will ecourage PC players to hit more things then there 1,(regardless if it is a good idea or not) and lets game pad players a chance to enjoy the game instead of cursing at their controler because they want provoke instead of light slash.
Also if you want to put in uto attack you NEED a way to shut if off quickly and efficiently on controller to prevent breaking CC. Although I have seen some games where you can hit something CCed for x damage before it breaks, but the damage is not actually removed from their hp, Basically they gain a small SS when CC them so a stray auto attack will NOT breka them. Not sure how much I like it but it is n option as well. It does work well if you need to CC 1 out of 3 mobs and you have an AOE attack that hits 3 targets and little room to manouver.
Also noone has argued agains't the lose of weapon delay and gear selections you lose by taking out auto attack yet. Is there no intelligent comments on how you can reconsilliate this loss ? -
03-21-2011, 07:04 PMOmegaNovaiosIt is the same thing if you compare how many times you hit the keys. The difference is wouldn't you rather use other skills in battle rather than just the same one. I mean right now you spend at least half your time playing the game hitting the regular attack action if you are a melee class. Some people are so far focused on this concept that they won't even attempt to perform battle regimens, which is a great deal of players and I doubt they come to these forums because they don't see any tactical play in MMOs so why would they even consider wanting any?Quote:
Originally Posted by Linnear
Now with an auto attack you still push just as many keys, but it isn't time spent worrying about inferior attacks. You are going to be using all the other actions you have from your collection. Wouldn't you rather spend all your time using many different actions rather than only half your time. Technically that's half of your time focused on something inferior and half of your time spent being much more tactical. Yes there are tactics in choosing to use regular attacks so much but this is overall very inferior and basic compared to what you could be doing with more time spent on other things.
We might even see battle regimen being using by people other than extremely well co-operated groups like a hardcore EG ls party. Maybe some day it might even occur in behests.