FC house prices is a step in the right direction for this game! Less casual friendly.

I keep reading about how housing is too expensive and floods of people will leave if they don't lower the prices. Also Casuals claiming to carry the game...

I am a casual. FF11 did fine without droves of casuals. Trust me when I say this. I don't think you staying or leaving will effect things the way you hope they will. Yes the servers will seem less active to the people still playing, but server mergers usually take care of that.

When the game first launched there were too many trying to play at once, do you remember how reluctant they were to open more servers? And how they didn't open a million new servers, only what 2?

All MMO's should launch the same way, cause in the end it just ends up as the fans either way. Next up see what happens with Wildstar and TESO.

Hardcore housing....great. Just what a game needs.

Also challenge =/= tedium.

You have extreme modes coming up to stroke your e-peen. Do you really need housing to be a joyless hardass too? Do you really need a game to be period?

If I'm going to work for months and months, or years to earn money for a house, I'm going to buy a REAL HOUSE. Not a virtual one for my cartoon character.

Besides, if you were really hardcore, you'd be back on FFXI, or some other ultra tedious hardcore game.

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Originally Posted by CptGeorge

I keep reading about how housing is too expensive and floods of people will leave if they don't lower the prices. Also Casuals claiming to carry the game...

I am a casual. FF11 did fine without droves of casuals. Trust me when I say this. I don't think you staying or leaving will effect things the way you hope they will. Yes the servers will seem less active to the people still playing, but server mergers usually take care of that.

When the game first launched there were too many trying to play at once, do you remember how reluctant they were to open more servers? And how they didn't open a million new servers, only what 2?

All MMO's should launch the same way, cause in the end it just ends up as the fans either way. Next up see what happens with Wildstar and TESO.

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Just because SE decides to put locks, discriminate players based on server, and hide everything behind a insurmountable wall; it doesn't mean we need to pay for it.

Call me crazy but I am somewhat agreeing with the OP.
For a FC of 30 members this is an opportunity to work together, little by little gather money and when the day finally comes (may this be few months from now) that the price for the house has been reached it will be a joyous occasion that everyone who has taken part can really enjoy.
Buying a FC house should be an event for the FC to carve in their history, not just a shopping trip to buy a house from the market.
This if anything is role playing to me... casuals or not.
The house prices need to be very high so it feels like an accomplishment when it finally is reached.
Shock horror, this might not happen instantly.

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Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

speech snip

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Is it wrong for me to have envisioned you giving that speech while standing in front of a giant waving american flag with the national anthem playing in the background?

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Just because SE decides to put locks and hide everything behind a wall of insurmountable progress doesn't mean we need to pay for it.

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No you don't have to pay for it, but every MMO is like this. To keep you subbed they lock the good candy up in the high shelf and make you finish your chores before you can have a piece. Makes those sparkles shooting out your arse worth it, gives you the feeling of accomplishment.

I'm sorry if you don't like having limits, but SE is a company that wants to make money. They put out an entertainment product, if you want to burn through the entertainment with no self control, that's your prerogative, but it REALLY doesn't make much sense on a business model.

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Originally Posted by Devilray

For once, we are actually getting a real challenge in the game that is not obtainable by 99 percent of the playerbase. I am glad SE makes you feel this is impossible because so far it has all been a cakewalk. Honestly, they got it the wrong way around. Relics should have costed 8 mil, not houses. You know, relics costed 100+ mil in FFXI, and Mythic weapons were over 300++ mil. Houses are clearly going to be a luxury item, not a casual reward you get from grinding dungeons or defeating 3 easy bosses.

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Time isn't a challenge but then most people who claim grinding = skill/hard/challenge wouldn't know what a real challenge is. I can imagine you shaking in fear even thinking about EvE let alone playing it.

Also FF11 wasn't as hard as EQ. Just throwing that out there.

For someone who spouts about challenge where's your allagan weapon?

Leveling up = fast.
Gearing up = easy.
Purely Cosmetic FC housing = Epic Hardcore Grind

Yes, this makes a lot of sense. . .

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Originally Posted by CptGeorge

Blah blah blah

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You are what is wrong with game design. You think the only way to keep people playing is to put a carrot before them and move down the treadmill. That's not the only way to keep people playing and paying. In fact, you'd probably keep more players if you made housing a crafting/gathering endgame instead of a farming gil endgame. You'd even probably keep more people if you just gave them housing.

The insecure neckbeards like you who need to be constantly aggrandized are the minority. I'm sorry that your mother or father didn't validate you enough that you need to play internet games for validation of your self-worth, but not everyone needs to be validated on the internet through pixels. And as we've seen with games now, the business model of, "Force them to farm" is failing. Look at WoW's constantly declining numbers. They aren't declining because people are happy with having to invest huge amounts of time doing tedious tasks.

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Originally Posted by CptGeorge

No you don't have to pay for it, but every MMO is like this. To keep you subbed they lock the good candy up in the high shelf and make you finish your chores before you can have a piece. Makes those sparkles shooting out your arse worth it, gives you the feeling of accomplishment.

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This is not "Candy on the high shelf that need chores" work.

This is "To create apple pie, you must invent the universe" work. It's 1.0's "Never met a Corpse I Couldn't Rifle" Work. It's tedious to the extreme, removing a whole chunk of FC enjoyment in order to get a dollhouse and making the furniture market nonexistent.

What with the way DoH has been shafted and how prices become undercut constantly, I question how the economy is supposed to benefit from this exercise in arrogance.

while i agree with that there should be some more exclusive content for a certain group of players, clapping your hands for them now and commending them on a job well done is rediculous.
they essentially locked out the casual crowd in the most tedious way possible. through grinding.
this is not a good thing, certainly not the first right step they took.
getting a house won't be hard, it will just take way too long for what it really is.
i don't even get where the "challenge" lies.. mustering up self control to not spend anymore gil?

oh well, at least in the "x" months it will take me to get a house, prices on furniture will get undercut to extremes cause of the wonderful community this game has.

It don't hurt casuals only.
Not every hardcore players are also hardcore economists. Or have you all forgot the threads about too high repair costs around the launch because some hardcore players didn't want to create some money after a raid day?

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Originally Posted by Pharacelcus

i don't even get where the "challenge" lies.. mustering up self control to not spend anymore gil?

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Simple. Many people who don't have skill equate grinding to being challenging. Extreme time consuming content can be achievable with hardcore grinding that they can no life and eventually gain something "exclusive" that very few people have. People claim this is "challenging" and "Difficult" to protect their ability to earn these items. Why is this? Well, if it was actually a challenge then no lifing the content won't get them anywhere because they lack the skills necessary in order to complete the content. So being one of the few who have the time to complete time consuming tasks makes them feel like they're honestly a good player because they have the time to complete it. If it was actually hard, well, they'll never see it to completion.

It's free company housing, not player housing. The "casuals" you speak of will be perfectly capable of buying their own house.

Also wanted to point out that it's not as bad as everyone thinks.

"The initial price of land at the release of patch 2.1 will vary depending on World population and economy."

This means that land will drop in price. We know for a fact that it can go down to 50% of it's initial price after 90 days. Even at full price though for a small 5th class plot on my server it'd take 100 people putting in 80k to get it day one. That's not that absurd when you consider Free Companies are meant to be large groups of players. If you choose to be in a FC that only has 8-16 people in it for coil runs then you've chosen the goals for your company. If you want a house, join a social FC and have one. My $0.02.

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Originally Posted by Reslin

Simple. Many people who don't have skill equate grinding to being challenging. Extreme time consuming content can be achievable with hardcore grinding that they can no life and eventually gain something "exclusive" that very few people have. People claim this is "challenging" and "Difficult" to protect their ability to earn these items. Why is this? Well, if it was actually a challenge then no lifing the content won't get them anywhere because they lack the skills necessary in order to complete the content. So being one of the few who have the time to complete time consuming tasks makes them feel like they're honestly a good player because they have the time to complete it. If it was actually hard, well, they'll never see it to completion.

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thank you for putting it into words where i couldn't. English is not my first language. i couldn't agree more, this coming from a "XI veteran".

Casual gaming = playing "a little"
40M gils for the "worst" house = farm hard.

Yes, those prices "kill" the casual gaming. But, for myself, i prefer HARD content, than easy things you have to do hundred (and more) times to have anything.
I would prefer a really hard fight you have to do with your FC to buy house than collecting 40M and more gils for a garden shed

These Knight's man...
Remove those friggin rose glasses right now.
Of all the things to ride your house about this is really
not a good one. I can't find a single good argument.
There is none. None at all. The prices all together is friggin' insane.
STAHP SAYING IT'S NOT! AJDKASLKDASKL!!

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Originally Posted by Naelle

Good thing these aren't prices for PLAYER housing. You don't have to come up with the gil alone. I think a lot of people are missing that point.

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And? The fact is, it's already hard for people to come up with the gil, EVEN if the entire FC pitched in.
I'm starting to feel like they fucked up by releasing housing too soon. Wayyy too soon. Esp with RMT's
ruling the world.

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Originally Posted by HumsterMKX

Need to find a Lalafell to punch.....

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NO! -Throws every Lala in a bag; ... -Takes out the ones who think this housing gil BS is a good idea;
KILL THEM LOL.

8 million gil is not a lot for a FC to raise. Don't want a tiny house? Save up for a while. What else are you going to spend gil on? These prices are outrageous (especially the ones on Legacy servers) but its not the wrist cutting, river crying, dream destroying, game breaking design 80% of the forums are making it out to be. People cry "IMPOSSIBLE! Never going to have that much!!!" and then call it a pointless time consumption, proclaim how easy it is because it just requires making gil, not actually beating any bosses. Let me tell you folks. Making gil on that scale is more of a challenge than raiding Binding Coil. You 'could' go out and make 100k/day farming some pointless mob for crafting materials, or there are indeed others way to make gil through crafting, and player connections. I can't list off ways because the experience I've seen with it involves certain items that are very likely not uniform across all the servers.

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

Casual gaming = playing "a little"
40M gils for the "worst" house = farm hard.

Yes, those prices "kill" the casual gaming. But, for myself, i prefer HARD content, than easy things you have to do hundred (and more) times to have anything.
I would prefer a really hard fight you have to do with your FC to buy house than collecting 40M and more gils for a garden shed

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Good thing these aren't prices for PLAYER housing. You don't have to come up with the gil alone. I think a lot of people are missing that point.

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Originally Posted by Naelle

Good thing these aren't prices for PLAYER housing. You don't have to come up with the gil alone. I think a lot of people are missing that point.

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Really? So I'm imagining all the threads where FC's are saying "My FC can't even afford the smallest lot?" I'm imagining the fact that my own small FC can't either? Who are these casuals who are perfectly capable of affording their own house that you speak of? By the way you realize a small house is barely big enough to fit 8 people, right? 1-10 people are the target group for a small house which is absurdly expensive for that amount of people. 100+ Member FC's are not the norm nor are they a "Small FC"

You realize many casuals form FC's for their friends/families? You realize that most FC have less than 30 people? You realize that most CASUAL free companies don't have a lot of members? Do you even know what a casual free company is or what even a casual is? Casuals make up 90% of the user base (SE's own words) 90% of the player base will not be part of a FC that has a small house let alone a medium/large. Ergo it is not casual friendly and it won't be casuals owning these houses.

I don't mind working to get something, but the prices are a little over the top. If you're in a relatively small FC, there's really not much hope in getting one within a feasible amount of time. We shouldn't have to grind Gil for 8 months. That's not much fun, this is a game after all.

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Originally Posted by Naelle

Good thing these aren't prices for PLAYER housing. You don't have to come up with the gil alone. I think a lot of people are missing that point.

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20 members, 1 to 2M (if you wait 3 month or not).
Some FC have less than 20 members that come in game every day...

Farm = easy and no brain game. nothing fun in it. But, why not use those price and add a hard boss to kill that will allow the FC to buy a house?
Yoshida said housing will be for everyone, its ok on some servers, but not on legacy servers...

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Originally Posted by Clyff

I don't mind working to get something, but the prices are a little over the top. If you're in a relatively small FC, there's really not much hope in getting one within a feasible amount of time. We shouldn't have to grind Gil for 8 months. That's not much fun, this is a game after all.

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This game isn't about fun it's about keeping people paying. And this doesn't really seem to be a game at that. Seems more like a scam to get people giving 15 dollars a month to SE in exchange for almost nothing. F2P and B2P games out now are more worthy of a sub fee than ARR.

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Originally Posted by Ethir

So tell me. How did you earn gil in this game ? Selling items ? are you really that idiot ? Leves are the gold mine in this game. With no one doing leves there will be no gil pour into the game. And stop being a creep little stalker.

p/s: It's : "Over 8000" try to learn to read the correct information.

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Are leve's really such a gold mine? I could see spirit bonding or HELL even selling tome mats as being more effective and even that in itself is time consuming

Your Point would be valid if SE made us beat the game/side missions, level all jobs/crafts/gathers to 50, Obtain all Relics, beat Turn5 10xs, Defeat all Extreme Primals/Ultima/King/, Obtain all minions and whatever else you can think of.

But having to accumulate up to 625mil GIL that ain't Hardcore, That's called Shit.

And I really don't think its fair to players to invite them to a FC just so they "Donate" Gil to buy a handful of people a big ass house. Does anyone honestly believe that in a game where the highest man content is 8 players, That a FC with 512 or even 100 players are going to be a close group? No! What's stopping these FCs from invite the max amount of players, Then having them donate gil and once they buy their house they start kicking players left and right until they get down to their friends?

I have a small FC of 4 ppl (2 of which just started a few weeks ago) did I expect to get the biggest and best land no, But I did expect to get at least the smallest. And I'm not taking Advantage of others to get a house.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

And I really don't think its fair to players to invite them to a FC just so they "Donate" Gil to buy a handful of people a big ass house. Does anyone honestly believe that in a game where the highest man content is 8 players, That a FC with 512 or even 100 players are going to be a close group? No! What's stopping these FCs from invite the max amount of players, Then having them donate gil and once they buy their house they start kicking players left and right until they get down to their friends?

I have a small FC of 4 ppl (2 of which just started a few weeks ago) did I expect to get the biggest and best land no, But I did expect to get at least the smallest. And I'm not taking Advantage of others to get a house.

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This. I'm in a similar boat as you.

Who here really thinks an FC with two to five hundred people is a good thing? You cannot even find the time to get to know most of them, let alone all. Bickering and backbiting, cliques; why the hell would you ever want a guild of hundreds of people?

And why design content around such an unfavorable situation, especially when previous Dev statements indicated it would be something for everyone?

...I'm a little amused by the number of people on these boards crowing that there is finally something to distinguish them from the insensate throngs of 'casuals', as though playing a video game all the waking hours of your day is somehow a noble thing, showing your dedication to an accomplishment. It isn't, it is indicative of a diseased mind going nowhere in life. That post yesterday about needing to farm 16h a day every day in a week to generate the necessary gil? Yes. That individual has no life.

No social life, no responsibilities, and frankly, it's sad. o_O Don't design content around such a person, it's bad for them.

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Originally Posted by Devilray

And on the other point you made, that is just a casual FC. I do a coil static that beats all of Coil including Twintania on my PLD.

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Protip: arriving on the scene 2-3 months late and using spoonfed cookie cutter strats other FCs pioneered doesn't make you hardcore. Sounds like you're yet another self-hating casual looking for any grounds with which to look down on others. Seems to be a common problem in this community and it's really weird, considering there's nothing wrong with being a casual player.

Anyway, grinding hundreds of millions of gil isn't difficult- it's tedious. (Not to mention completely unrealistic when it's based on total amount of gil in circulation, and those numbers have been woefully skewed by RMT and database exploits) If you truly wanted a challenge, do content when it's new and don't bite others' strats.

In the end, housing is something which primarily interests and caters to casual players (especially RP). Most hardcores could not possibly care less about it. How does it make sense then to make it out of reach of the players who are most likely to subscribe just to indulge in that content? It's a terrible business decision which completely misses the point, shows they have little grasp on the demographics playing their game, and in the end will cost them a lot of subs.

Different content for different groups of players. Housing was never something hardcores asked them to add to this game. So why try to tailor that content to them? Completely nonsensical. Rather than giving hardcores thousands of hours of tedious grind to 'look forward' to, how about giving them content which is actually challenging? IE: more and deeper raid content and misc. tests of skill.

I could see where a FFXI player may be confused about all that, though.

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Originally Posted by Devilray

For once, we are actually getting a real challenge in the game that is not obtainable by 99 percent of the playerbase. I am glad SE makes you feel this is impossible because so far it has all been a cakewalk. Honestly, they got it the wrong way around. Relics should have costed 8 mil, not houses. .

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Sorry. While I can understand prices not being super cheap, since they are intended for grand company members to chip in on, the prices on legacy servers are just absurd. The price on the newer servers is more where it should be on all servers.

I can't see any good reason why the legacy players should have to pay 8, 10 times more than everyone else.

Comparing houses to relic weapons is more than a little silly. A house doesn't kill monsters.

Oh don't worry about the cries from the forums. They're the minority remember? Or did the forum population suddenly become a majority?

So... This is the hardcore content you wanted SE to give you? not working towards cool gear or weapons or beating huge monsters but grinding out gil for a vanity item? you must have been amazing at the sims.

There is an element among the playerbase desperate for anything, anything at all, to make themselves seem/feel superior to other players.

Standing out from the crowd, as it were.

I do not understand that desire, still less the obsession over it.

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Originally Posted by Devilray

For once, we are actually getting a real challenge in the game that is not obtainable by 99 percent of the playerbase. I am glad SE makes you feel this is impossible because so far it has all been a cakewalk. Honestly, they got it the wrong way around. Relics should have costed 8 mil, not houses. You know, relics costed 100+ mil in FFXI, and Mythic weapons were over 300++ mil. Houses are clearly going to be a luxury item, not a casual reward you get from grinding dungeons or defeating 3 easy bosses. Hope you guys understand and stop crying about RMT and having things become hard. Boo hoo.... Get with the program and learn about past MMOs that were actually challenging for once. This is a huge plus for the FFXI veterans.

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The things to bring back from ffxi and ffxiv 1.0 ... which were both better games than this atm ... is definitely not things like this ... it is the character development, graphics and animations .... and an actually 3d open world feel ... immersion and a want to play the game.

This sort of thing is just horrible ... you just sit there crafting and gathering all day so that you don't have to log out after you do your weekly crap so the game looks populated ... it is rubbish!

I completely agree, they should also bring back error 3102 while they're at it, login in itself is a masterful skill.

Truly a hardcore game for hardcore players such as myself.

If you have a small FC, the small plot is easily affordable for you. Get you and your 5-10 super friends to give a small amount, and voila, you got your plot. Should be about 1 million/active player (for my server group), unless you wait, then it could go down to half that.

If you have a medium FC (which I imagine is more than 30 people total, more like 30 people active online at the same time), the medium plot should also be easily affordable to you. Should be about 1 million/active player (for my server group), unless you wait, then it could go down to half that.

If you have a large FC (which I imagine is more than 100 people total, more like 75+ people active online at the same time), the large plot should be affordable to you, not easily though, unless you exceed 100 active online. But it shouldn't exceed 2 million/active player (for my server group), unless you wait, then it could go down to half that.

I don't think this is unreasonable.

My FC (with 94 total members), would quality as medium. Yet I want the large plot...so it'll take much longer for us, but we're willing to toil longer for it. Now that we know what to expect, more people will make money and not just hang to their 50k left from leveling to 50.

Relics and allagan falls from the sky, house in the other hand will be hardest thing to obtain, i sense some confusion here someone must have swapped the difficulty settings between those 2 unless we playing townsville then everything is as should be.

Most players simply don't want that anymore and what's so great about it? You're telling me that spending hundreds of hours crafting/making gold otherwise so you can build a house with your onlinefriends for the lulz (because it's nothing else really) is something you consider challenging and fun? To me it's just spending time doing reptetive boring stuff that I can do while sleeping to be able to do content that's actually fun. That's just bad design, that's why people left EQ and joined WoW - that's why AC sold better than DS, players don'T want to invest hundreds and thousands of hours to do something which in 3-4 years will not matter at all anymore anyway cause you quit or the game's gone.

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Originally Posted by Wlt

Relics and allagan falls from the sky, house in the other hand will be hardest thing to obtain, i sense some confusion here someone must have swapped the difficulty settings between those 2 unless we playing townsville then everything is as should be.

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Very easy to obtain imo. 10 million for 10 active people is easily obtainable in less than a week.

Casual players= townsfolk, commoners (merchants, blacksmiths, botanists, farmers, artisans, chefs, armorers, town soldiers, etc.)
Mid-hardcore players= royal clergy, nobles, royal soldiers
Elite players= royalty (royal family)

If the king (top elite) keeps harassing his people (the townsfolk), they will revolt or leave the city in order to find a better place to live.
If the townsfolk yell too much, the king can cut their heads off and put a leash on their necks.
The nobles can only side with those who provide wealth and safety according to the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Devilray

For once, we are actually getting a real challenge in the game that is not obtainable by 99 percent of the playerbase. I am glad SE makes you feel this is impossible because so far it has all been a cakewalk. Honestly, they got it the wrong way around. Relics should have costed 8 mil, not houses. You know, relics costed 100+ mil in FFXI, and Mythic weapons were over 300++ mil. Houses are clearly going to be a luxury item, not a casual reward you get from grinding dungeons or defeating 3 easy bosses. Hope you guys understand and stop crying about RMT and having things become hard. Boo hoo.... Get with the program and learn about past MMOs that were actually challenging for once. This is a huge plus for the FFXI veterans.

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The lack of likes to your post is all you need to know. The japanese thread complaining about prices is already 1100 likes.

The vast majority of players hate the prices. It's a slap in the face.