Whm receives multiple nerfs , Sch gets buffed

Why was a nerf even necessary

This game needs more not less

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

Lustrate will be healing a full ilvl 90 warrior (around 9k hp) for about 2250 . That is a cure 2 crit. Why are you undervaluing lustrate?

Cure3 is still completely useless in most fights even with this buff and medica 2 has been changed into a use once every 30 second spell(compared to precast before aoe for higher overall hps for less mana)

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Yes, it will hit someone with more HP for more heal. SURPRISE! Meanwhile, Physick will remain equal to or better than Lustrate on everyone but a Warrior at the max HP.

Why are you pretending like 5% is this massive imbalance? What is your motivation to shine a light on Lustrate as harming balance while Cure III won't?

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Originally Posted by cainejw

Yes, it will hit someone with more HP for more heal. SURPRISE! Meanwhile, Physick will remain equal to or better than Lustrate on everyone but a Warrior at the max HP.

Why are you pretending like 5% is this massive imbalance? What is your motivation to shine a light on Lustrate as harming balance while Cure III won't?

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Are you joking me or serious when you say this. That lustrate is weaker then cure3?

Even with these buffs cure 3 still useless and not worth the effort. Thats the problem.

Anyways im not saying lustrate will cause a unbalance. Just its a really good ability, now even better. 5% would be 450hp on a fully geared warrior tank.
Which is like a 230 potency buff on warrior tanks, 180potency on paladins. 100potency on everyone else.

Not really bothered about the nerf to holy, it's a shame given that it only really shone on WP speed runs but eh. It doesn't really change much all told.

Removing the guaranteed crit from overcure is actually a bigger deal than the buff to cure III itself imo, I use it to heal both tanks and the dps through snakes on T5 and the risk of having overcure up without me spotting it in time was enough to have me sitting on my shroud cool down to ensure I didn't throw silly amounts of enmity right off the bat and mess things up at that stage.

I'm really not sure about the change to medica II, I wouldn't really call it a buff or a nerf, I suspect it'll make very little difference to stuff like Titan all told, the reduced enmity will compensate for the HP per second drop. My main concern is if it is fast enough to still deal with Fireball damage on T5 as is. I've got enough stuff to juggle as is :eek:

Okay, I can live with Medica II changes... just Needs some adjustments on the Timing when to cast in certain situations. I can also live with the Cure III changes. Might make the spell more viable with a Little bit more range (for example, first Phase of Garuda)...

But why do you have to weaken the damage of Holy?

Since I discovered the potential of holy, I used it quite often... the extra damage made up for the boredom of being healer only and have given WHM a very nice Option of a different playstyle in some situations... now I have to cast more Holys, to Archive the same Goal. If it is about holy spamming, raise the mp cost a bit would have been fine.

A few weeks ago I found so much fun with holy, and now its gimped... :mad: :mad: :mad:

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I'm really not sure about the change to medica II, I wouldn't really call it a buff or a nerf, I suspect it'll make very little difference to stuff like Titan all told, the reduced enmity will compensate for the HP per second drop. My main concern is if it is fast enough to still deal with Fireball damage on T5 as is. I've got enough stuff to juggle as is :eek:

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That's my biggest concern too. The biggest use for WHM in T5 was exactly because of the burst heal for after fireballs. It's now really close to really be better for 2 SCH instead of SCH/WHM. But then of course SE's fix for this is to nerf LB generation if you bring two of the same job..

Another thing is that I will probably play my SCH in pvp and not touch my WHM. Since in pvp every cast is interrupted by damage Lustrated just became even more awesome.
Ideal setup with ideal heal throughput:
6x Lustrate (150% HP) for then the 10s reduced damage with Surecast and a swiftcast adlo before anyone can even do much.
vs.
One Benediction (100%), one swiftcast Cure 2, 10s reduced damage with surecast Cure 2.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

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Numbers. Let's play.

Lustrate, as you noted, will heal 2,250 on the highest HP. On a Paladin, this will be around 1550-1800. Lustrate cannot crit.
Cure III, however, will heal 1400 HP on average. For crit, this will be more to over 2,100. This is also an AOE. If it procs off Cure II, you can get a crit AND for less MP, but we won't go too far with that.

Lustrate will heal, over 60s, 2,250 HP at the best. You get 3 every 60s. This will be 37.5 health per second.
Cure III will heal, with a 2s cast time and 2.5s GCD, 1,400 on Average. It costs 399 which means you can use approximately 12 Cure III, 4.5s around 60s. This means you will heal 280 health per second.

If you proc Cure II on Cure III, you can get 2.1k every cast, 2.1k x 12 = 25200 on one target. That divided by 60s for the minute puts this 420 health per second.

So, tell me again, which is better for a healer?

:<
WHM need buffed instead of nerfed I could post a huge paragraph about it but im lazy. Virus nerf was rough but whm got hit harder in a time where they need some of their skills re-looked at and buffed. They also need to reduce enmity >.>

P.S: WHM Make a bunch of rage on forums like all the drgs QQing and get your buff.

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Originally Posted by cainejw

numbers

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The thing is, this is not only about numbers.
Lustrate is an instant cast AND can be cast on the run. While my fairy (that is much easier to control now) adds additional healing in the time I can't cast anything on my WHM.

Also, a proc shouldn't be taken into consideration since Cure III is so situational that you really DO NOT want to cast it and waste MP it in a less then ideal situation while lustrate is a bread and butter spell for a job that has less MP issue to begin with.

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Originally Posted by cainejw

Cure III will heal, with a 2s cast time and 2.5s GCD, 1,400 on Average. It costs 399 which means you can use approximately 12 Cure III, 4.5s around 60s. This means you will heal 280 health per second.

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If I cast 12 cure IIIs inside a minute I suspect my FC would send an ambulance round to my house....

Or just kick me :eek:

I don't mind the Holy nerf, I felt it was necessary.

Medica II I'm a little on the shelf about. Remember Medica is 300 potency and Medica II is 200 potency for its initial cast, but as for its regen... Well, just means 2x the amount of time to regenerate, which, means longer time... more room for error so DPS will have to step up their game to avoid things, or I have to heal them to full if they're slacking a bit.
It's an alright change, but Medica II being used for Fireballs on Twintania was something pretty good, but now I'm not so sure... guess I'll have to start using Cure III, perhaps.
But, someone had mentioned that Medica II is now worse than Eos' AoE regeneration (100 potency without Rouse), I'm really not sure how to think about it. Seems like I'll need to test it before I can see if it's crap or not.


Though I am disappointed that Lustrate gets a buff. Lustrate was always better than Benediction because you rarely, if ever, use Benediction to heal 100% entirely. More like 80%+. With Lustrate, every 20% counted since you were more inclined to use it since it doesn't have such a large cooldown; Lustrate can heal 125% over 5 minutes where as Benediction is 100% over 5 minutes... and no one benefits from the full 100%!

Cure III... I guess it's better now. The mana it consumes isn't really anything better unless you need to heal two people I guess but it always was a very situational skill.

I feel like WHM changes were a bit of everything, buff and nerf, but SCH didn't lose a thing (but gained) when they were already in demand as it was.

medica 2 nerf is gonna mess with conflags/fireballs and virus immunity is nasty too. the new medica 2 is just gonna be 60% overhealing, no one is gonna be low long enough for it to do real work... too bad, it was nice on high damage phases. 75% of a tanks hp on a 1 minute cooldown is pretty silly though.

This reeks of trying to force us to use the "new" cure 3, all we wanted was a range boost on it, a 15% proc for crits was one thing, but relying on a proc to make a situational aoe heal efficient is just insane...

Could be that just Square is moving slowly. A lot of times because of the length of a development cycle means that the dev team is a few weeks behind the trends and it was only a month or two ago that this forum was (bizarrely) insisting that Scholars were basically useless shield bots and double white mage was almost (or just as) good as sch/whm was in 8 man content.

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Originally Posted by cainejw

MATH

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You are one funny guy.

So far I'm okay with the idea of all of this. Will see how it actually plays out, though.

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Originally Posted by AishaK

medica 2 nerf is gonna mess with conflags/fireballs and virus immunity is nasty too. the new medica 2 is just gonna be 60% overhealing, no one is gonna be low long enough for it to do real work... too bad, it was nice on high damage phases. 75% of a tanks hp on a 1 minute cooldown is pretty silly though.

This reaks of trying to force us to use the "new" cure 3, all we wanted was a range boost on it, a 15% proc for crits was one thing, but relying on a proc to make a situational aoe heal efficient is just insane...

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I feel the same way with what you said regarding Medica II. It healed pretty well and by the 10 second area, people are healed. Now it'll take double the time! and as an AoE heal... The fairy does more...!! I could understand if we were beginning to be shifted to an raid healer class but even the fairy out heals us in terms of AoE regen.

None of these changes help anything for me. They are either just as good as they were before OR just as stupid as they were before. I'm not using cure 3 and I'm not going to be spamming cure 2 to get a chance for a 50% mp reduction on cure 3.

I play both classes and I've always enjoyed whitemage the most. I think it is time to move to scholar until we see some new skills.

hmm I wont be holying a much anymore. On the bright side I wont have to see its horrid spell animation quite as much. Also we lost Thunder... lol

I hope they revert the Lustrate change or do something with Benediction to even out the clutch healing side of both the jobs. Whm are still going to be needed to those of you wanting to hop to the other side, I still don't see Sch/Sch as being more viable compared to the current state of their synergy. I need my Whm brothers and sisters. :(

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Originally Posted by cainejw

What the hell are you smoking to think a Holy nerf means Scholars are better? 5% on a Lustrate is nowhere near the buff you just got on the Medica II and Cure III. Quit whining. WHM will still be the overall power healer.

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I don't smoke, thanks. But fine, ONCE MORE FROM THE TOP.

My primary objection to the Holy power nerf is that the MP cost is (presumably) left the same. It's still a "strong" spell... that's now even less useful and more of liability to the one caster job that actually has to manage MP. This is one of the two things we actually had over Scholars and it's barely useful outside FATE grinding or WP speed runs even in its current form.

Medica II did not get buffed. The healing amount is exactly the same, except that now instead of being both a hate magnet and a quick answer to massive aoe damage, it's now a slow bake spell for topping off people who aren't in danger. Basically, it no longer serves the function that actually separated it from Succor. There goes the other reason to have a WHM rather than SCH.

Cure III's "buff" places the range 1 entire whopping yalm larger than the range Bane has right now. You know, the range that everyone complains is utter crap and doesn't reliably hit a tight group of enemies crowded around a tank. And it's still a huge MP hog, unless we can somehow trigger a 15% proc (which costs more MP) in anticipation of needing it, every time. And then you have to organize an entire group of people to do something impractical during any fight that would require it. Diagnosis: Still worse than Medica.

Meanwhile pets just became even more awesome and SCH healing gets a boost.

If the two classes were anywhere close before, SCH is now the better healer by miles. We couldn't even get an improvement to Shroud? Seriously? Not even something so that it actually scales appropriately? People are crowing about how Scholars are the "real" healers now, or saying that White Mages are only there for Proshell. As an avid WHM lover and defender I really can't argue with them.

Wow this is quite disappointing, I was hoping for some sort of buff to our MP regeneration of some kind.

Not even gonna play WHM anymore, thanks SE. WHM should not have been touched aside from a REAL fix to Cure 3.

the proc for cure III might actually be nice if it could be relied on at all. As is the chance of transitioning between spamming cure 2 to needing a cure 3 and being able to put that proc to use is just not there.

Maybe increase the duration of "overcure" or whatever its new name is called to 20 seconds or something like that so we actually have a chance to use it on a spike of random aoe. Probably too much to ask for though.

The cure 1 proc works because there is always a time when a cure 2 is useful.

I'm more upset the Sacred Prism is a PvP skill... >n>
/Goes off point

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Originally Posted by AishaK

the proc for cure III might actually be nice if it could be relied on at all. As is the chance of transitioning between spamming cure 2 to needing a cure 3 and being able to put that proc to use is just not there.

Maybe increase the duration of "overcure" or whatever its new name is called to 20 seconds or something like that so we actually have a chance to use it on a spike of random aoe. Probably too much to ask for though.

The cure 1 proc works because there is always a time when a cure 2 is useful.

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Only way I can see it being even semi-reliable is if perhaps they change the proc onto Cure 1..so both Freecure and Overcure procs come up, and you get to choose which one to use (if one is used it consumes both procs).

The change to Thunder really gets me heated. What's the point?

Because it was such a large part of DOM's damage. . . /sarcasm off

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Originally Posted by vpc

Only way I can see it being even semi-reliable is if perhaps they change the proc onto Cure 1..so both Freecure and Overcure procs come up, and you get to choose which one to use (if one is used it consumes both procs).

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I actually like this idea, rename the effect to healing trance and give it both effects and let us choose how to use it. both cure 1 and cure 2 could proc it... too bad it would never happen

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

The change to Thunder really gets me heated. What's the point?

Because it was such a large part of DOM's damage. . . /sarcasm off

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AFAICT it's meant to be a nerf to summoners and a tool to make fate zerging a bit easier for non THM who don't have access to AoEs until their 40s.

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Originally Posted by Sylari

AFAICT it's meant to be a nerf to summoners and a tool to make fate zerging a bit easier for non THM who don't have access to AoEs until their 40s.

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At 50 potency? That just tickles.

The brilliance of the FFXIV Dev team:

"Hey guys, I have a great idea."

"What?"

"Let's make WHMs, who excel at multi-target healing, worse at multi-target healing, and make SCHs, who excel at single target healing, even better at single target healing."

"That sounds pretty good, but I think we can do better."

"How?"

"Well, let's take that a step further and take away Thunder from WHM, which is already vastly inferior to SCH when it comes to DoT damage. We don't want those WHMs to have three DoTs. That's far too many."

"Okay, okay. I'm following you so far...but what about Cure III? Players seem to complain about it an awful lot."

"Hmm. How about, instead of actually making it good, we just sort of tweak it so it becomes extremely situational instead of just downright terrible?"

"Brilliant."

"Oh also, f*** Holy."

Too much whining in the boards.

All of this complaining is just conjecture right now, how about we all wait and see after some playtesting what actually sucks and doesn't suck anymore? I don't think they are going to be as bad as some people think it is.

Hilariously, the only people who are ok with these changes are mostly scholars. The medica 2 change will gimp WHM plain and simple.

Lustrate didn't really need a buff, but it's nice I suppose. It also comes at a time where Warriors are more viable end-game, so that's a pretty huge buff. (5% of a 9000 HP tank is a 450 HP increase on Lustrate; it's an extra 350 HP on a 7000 HP tank)

Medica II is now more viable for solo healing Titan; as you won't be a threat monster in the early stages now where a single Medica wouldn't cut it and Medica II overhealed. It'll also be nice for solo healing Turn 2; one Medica 2 will take care of the raid damage for double the amount of time, without the added overhealing.

Cure III will be great for Twintania Fireballs now; as before people would sometimes be out of range of one another. The increase from 4 to 6 also makes tank and melee DPS healing viable will Cure III.

I love these changes. I'll continue to play both my SCH and WHM.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

Nooo just because we got nerfed doesn't mean we are suddenly useless lolwhm. We are very capable to heal every encounter. Healing is easy. Its just getting nerfed sucks! especially when the other healer is getting buffs xD.

Also SE are punishing class stacking with penalty to limit break generation . So 1sch 1 whm generally will be the pt setups. Maybe if you didn't have a bard double sch would be better but still manageable with good play.

If you are good at playing a healer then you will be invited. So far no content in this game is so hard that people are losing spots because they aren't optimal class(except maybe warrior tanks ahaha).

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Agreed 100% here. This will not change good WHMs. Good WHMs will adapt to changes and make it work. WHMs are still powerful raid healers and anyone who thinks this is a serious kick in the gut need to join the bandwagon SCHs based on the general opinion of this thread.

All new content will be done with WHM + SCH from the beginning because this combination of classes provides potent single target and potent party wide heals. This means if you're a strong WHM, you will get invited still. These changes shift the balance, yes, but they do not shift the balance far enough to make you a lolWHM (unless you're a bad player to begin with, but that's another problem altogether).

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Originally Posted by Ashira

Medica II is now more viable for solo healing Titan; as you won't be a threat monster in the early stages now where a single Medica wouldn't cut it and Medica II overhealed. It'll also be nice for solo healing Turn 2; one Medica 2 will take care of the raid damage for double the amount of time, without the added overhealing.

Cure III will be great for Twintania Fireballs now; as before people would sometimes be out of range of one another. The increase from 4 to 6 also makes tank and melee DPS healing viable will Cure III.

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When you put Medica II in situations like that I can see it as being good, but the fact remains it's still equal effect that takes longer. The aggro generation will surely be slowed but I find most times if I get aggro it's based on me being overgeared and the tank being undergeared or lazy.
The threat I always get is from using Medica II the moment it casts, not its regen effect.

Also for Cure III I pretty much always used it for Fireball because it got people up ASAP in case conflag got turned onto someone. I was only training myself to go back to Medica and how horrifying that now I have to go back lol!

I'll continue to play WHM as I've said, even if we become the inferior healer to be beaten into the ground; but the part that concerns me, above any of this, if it something does prove to be OP or UP, it'll take 3 months before anything is done about it. Warrior was considered UP for 3 months and only now, with the next big patch has something been done.
Hypothetically if SCH becomes the go to healer, will WHM then be sitting with discrimination for 3 months until 2.2?

Gotta love the direct ability comparisons in a vacuum instead of looking at the total package each job provides. Comparing Lustrate to Cure (whatever #) is like saying Rouse only impacts the Fairy while Divine Seal impacts all of a WHM's spells. Different areas of strength.

I'll still probably use WHM for all my aoe farming while spiritbonding purposes. Blows BLM and SMN out of the water for me - not just in kill speed but safety as well. A less than 20% damage nerf shouldn't change that other than making me cast an extra Holy here and there. Being able to Divine Seal > Regen > Cleric lets me pull way more at once than I can as a DPS while wearing junk gear. Stuff bonds fast when you kill 7-8 things at a time.

I might be able to use SCH (the class I actually want to play and spend myth on) for WP now instead of feeling I need to use WHM for access to Holy. And I'll still want a WHM as my partner rather than another SCH in 8 mans. Just synergizes a lot more smoothly.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

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actually dual scholar can pull both single&team heals just fine with their timely execute Rouse+Whispering Dawn, it's just they need to communicate and not leave one thing for another to do but working together

I still love and prefer WHM but I still need to see how fare we will do
right now I only see WHM will be better in the fight where we need stacking up to eat CureIII

Maybe I'm missing something, but did you guys actually read the tooltip for Medica II? The upfront cure on Medica II is actually worse than on Medica I. For straight aoe thoughtput, you should be casting a Medica II, then spamming Medica I (or Cure 3 if your raid is pro) with the Medica II hot ticking. This is a slight nerf in the fact that it will probably nerf the actual healing done by the hot due to targets being topped off well before the longer duration on the hot being relevant. But what on earth were you guys doing before, spamming Medica II?

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Originally Posted by MBTL90

Maybe I'm missing something, but did you guys actually read the tooltip for Medica II? The upfront cure on Medica II is actually worse than on Medica I. For straight aoe thoughtput, you should be casting a Medica II, then spamming Medica I (or Cure 3 if your raid is pro) with the Medica II hot ticking. This is a slight nerf in the fact that it will probably nerf the actual healing done by the hot due to targets being topped off well before the longer duration on the hot being relevant. But what on earth were you guys doing before, spamming Medica II?

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So do you go into forums for roles you aren't familiar with and babble nonsense often or is this your first time?