Turn 2 "easy mode", disables every mechanic in the fight

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Originally Posted by Earnhardt

You do realize that Yoshi has stated and continues to state every time they do video's like that, where they demonstrate a fight. That the warrior just runs around the room taking damage for 2 reasons. 2 show the kind of damage that the fight puts out and to show you a view from all around the fight, which is tough to do when you are required to stand still or avoid mechanics. He specifically mentions it several times in the live letters during the video's. This is not their test team being retards....

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ya well in that same video one of the guys said "hey i dont wanna tell you how to play War ". /wipe "You might wanna do it." /wipe again "Do that"

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Originally Posted by Noroi_Kisaragi

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This video was from the healer's perspective (big shoutout to Koeta for recording, my capture card died mid-record) .[...]

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None else bothered by this? I can see a blm playing.

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Originally Posted by Gurpsmeister

very much this. If you're SO bad that you can't take it out legit than..I guess have fun? It's an easy fight to start with and this method is longer than the norm.

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Well, if people have already beaten it the "normal" way, don't really see that the issue is if they wanna do it the "easy" way afterwards. Even with an experienced bunch, one missed HV silence or other random screw-up at a bad time could cause a wipe and then you'll be taking a longer time to pass the turn. Don't see any real problem with going AFK for a few minutes and getting what is basically a guaranteed win. It's both puzzling and funny to me how often people seem to stress out about spending an extra 4-5 minutes on content in this game. If time is really that valuable to you - should you really be spending your time playing an MMORPG lol ?


If you think about it - is this all that really all that different from an over-geared full relic+1 speed-running through stuff like Garuda, WP, AK, Prae, etc. ? An over-geared group can approach all these with a much faster approach than group at the level that the content was designed for. Sort of funny how people were crying out when they decided to nerf the original AK speed runs, no ?

If you're beating the fight without dealing any of its mechanics (other than the enrage AoE and 3 standard moves for the first 1 minute), everyone standing still and just hitting their rotations, I would consider this to be not working as intended.

I also think the rage should really mean rage and the AoE should at least hit harder every time, or just one-shot the whole group.

Not an exploit.

Just another way to do it. Not everyone can heal through that, they have to be geared and the dps too.

I don't think there is anything wrong with doing that at all.

To those that do think it is an exploit are talking out of their back side.

If SE decide to change something that is up to them but certainly will not get anyone banned for using a mechanic in a different way than the rest.

Resembles the strategy from FF X-2 when u oversoul (after killing x enemies of one species, next one encountered from the same species becomes stronger and sometimes gains abilities) a boss to get rid of a nasty ability.

If you are doing this method because your groups can't do the ADS mechanics consistently you are doing yourself a major disservice as coil only gets harder and you can't skip mechanics later on T5.

It's like when you could sleep conflags on twintania, it meant that you didn't have to worry about fast conflags but honestly if you can't do that consistently there is something wrong with the group that needs addressing, and most groups didn't use the sleep for that reason.

If skipping mechanics is your crutch then that's a problem. For my group I would personally do the easy mode for t2 if it wasn't actually quicker to just do it normally. I don't feel it's an exploit because if it was then the most common way to do T1 snake is also an exploit as well as any fight where you skip mechanics with gear and composition.

If this wasn't supposed to be possible, that AoE would just instawipe. If you are using a static, some members need to have geared other lv 50 jobs anyway. It's not unreasonable to expect that the more jobs the static has, the more strategies they can use. This can also still fail in so many ways, it's hard to think of it an exploit.

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Originally Posted by Dorin

Like people said, ADS isn't even hard to kill the normal way.

Find something similar for Ms. Twintania and you'll catch more people's attention.

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Not that I expect similar behaviour to ADS, but what exactly does Turn 5 look like if you bring her to enrage during the 1st phase of the fight? Is it all the same except she's just a lot stronger?

Also as pointed out before, the clicks are only an enrage timer. If you weren't meant to live past the enrage it would be a hard dps check such as Titan's heart. It's the same deal as T4 you are not meant to fail as soon as the enrage timer hits you have some room to go into it and finish the fight off with the idea that you have a limited amount of time to survive in it. It is not an exploit to survive through an enrage timer, even if it requires a composition that is not typical.

There is no great benefit to doing it this way anyway, as I said you want to learn the mechanics anyway and it's quicker to do it normally.

I got a good laugh out of the people who said "it's not easy because it requires gear." Gear-checks in this game are only as difficult as running WP. Whether you want to call it an exploit or not is pointless. Nobody's going to get banned for it, and whether it gets fixed or not largely depends on how much effort SE cares to expend. It's safe to say it's not working as intended, but neither was turn 1 and they didn't fix that.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

I got a good laugh out of the people who said "it's not easy because it requires gear." Gear-checks in this game are only as difficult as running WP. Whether you want to call it an exploit or not is pointless. Nobody's going to get banned for it, and whether it gets fixed or not largely depends on how much effort SE cares to expend. It's safe to say it's not working as intended, but neither was turn 1 and they didn't fix that.

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What exactly is the "exploit" for Turn 1 ? I haven't heard of this one. Is letting them re-combine and single-tanking it considered an "exploit"? (I don't think this would be easy at all for any average level T1 group). Or is doing it the way I've seen every group do it so far since the early weeks of this game (1 tank on each split) the "exploit" ? Just confused here since I've never heard anyone mention in-game about an "exploit" or "hax method" for doing Turn 1.

For turn 1 it's the fact that you can just DPS race the mechanics past the snake split and not have to worry about stacks or slimes at all. It's not an exploit it's the turn being tuned well below the average gear level of a coil team.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

For turn 1 it's the fact that you can just DPS race the mechanics past the snake split and not have to worry about stacks or slimes at all. It's not an exploit it's the turn being tuned well below the average gear level of a coil team.

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When I started beating Turn 1 a while back, we were mostly all just DL gear and we didn't feed snakes past the split - we definitely weren't "overgeared" in anyway whatsoever for this battle. I always thought this was the normal method every1 used - I have no idea how this can be considered an "exploit" in any way lol. I don't think you can compare this to the T2-enrage method at all.

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Originally Posted by flavored

Since when using mechanics to your advantage was an exploit if I might ask.

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That's the definition of an exploit. Intentional use of game mechanics to your advantage that aren't meant to be done.

That is only true however if SE deems it so. We used this tactic last week and it's intense, but not very "difficult". If you are a healer, it's more nerve racking but not really. I was whm.

I'm 99.9% sure it will be changed in 2.1. Probably some kind of stacking debuff every time he uses the ability that increases damage done to the player.

Easily doable with 2 healers if you have your white mage use cure 3 instead of medicas, assuming you give them ballad.

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Originally Posted by zPanda

When I started beating Turn 1 a while back, we were mostly all just DL gear and we didn't feed snakes past the split - we definitely weren't "overgeared" in anyway whatsoever for this battle. I always thought this was the normal method every1 used - I have no idea how this can be considered an "exploit" in any way lol. I don't think you can compare this to the T2-enrage method at all.

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Yeah that's exactly what I mean though, it's tuned below even full DL gear. If this is intentional though is another story, just because mechanics exist doesn't mean SE 100% intend us to play with them for as long as possible. Skipping mechanics can be totally intended as a possible strategy.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

Easily doable with 2 healers if you have your white mage use cure 3 instead of medicas, assuming you give them ballad.

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Serious question: why use Cure 3? Without the crit from cure 2, it's basically a more expensive medica 1. Medica 2 Regen with medica 1 rotations work just as well and less mp draining.

I don't think it's an exploit but certainly an oversight that I would expect to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by RowanLauron

That's the definition of an exploit. Intentional use of game mechanics to your advantage that aren't meant to be done.

That is only true however if SE deems it so. We used this tactic last week and it's intense, but not very "difficult". If you are a healer, it's more nerve racking but not really. I was whm.

I'm 99.9% sure it will be changed in 2.1. Probably some kind of stacking debuff every time he uses the ability that increases damage done to the player.

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This doesn't make sense lol. How can using game mechanics to your advantage be an "exploit" ? An exploit IMHO would be something were you are taking advantage of some glitch/bug to break the mechanics of the game itself - for example, the exploit that existed previously on Titan HM where a WHM would fall of the edge and then spam heals from outside the arena causing Titan to just sit there.


By your definition, all Garuda Speed-runs would be an "exploit" too since killing the plumes would be considered part of the game mechanic. A "normal" party would need to kill the plumes to keep the rocks up - that was the original design of that fight. However, all speed-run groups these days completely ignore the plumes and just use overgeared DPS to make the plumes a non-issue.

With a geared enough group you can ignore the slime mechanic completely in Turn 1 (i.e it'll split before it gets more than a stack anyways).

Turn 2, for a group that has been doing coil for the past several weeks I don't see the point to doing it this way.. you'll clear it faster just doing it the normal way .. personally have better things to do than AFK for 7 or 8 minutes to wait for it to get to 1 click to use this method so this isn't exactly a time saver :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by RowanLauron

Serious question: why use Cure 3? Without the crit from cure 2, it's basically a more expensive medica 1. Medica 2 Regen with medica 1 rotations work just as well and less mp draining.

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Cure 3 in my gear = 10800 hp for 505 mp (without the crit bonus), ~21 hp recovered for every point of mp spent
Medica in my gear = 5,760 hp for 372 mp, ~15 hp for every point of mp spent.

Cure 3 is far more MP efficient than medica if you can hit all 8 people with it. Medica II should be use every time the regen wears off and this fight is easily doable with two healers.

Easier or not, if a group chooses to use this strategy and lacks the basic coordination to do it even the normal way then all I can say is good luck on the later turns!

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Originally Posted by zPanda

What exactly is the "exploit" for Turn 1 ? I haven't heard of this one. Is letting them re-combine and single-tanking it considered an "exploit"? (I don't think this would be easy at all for any average level T1 group). Or is doing it the way I've seen every group do it so far since the early weeks of this game (1 tank on each split) the "exploit" ? Just confused here since I've never heard anyone mention in-game about an "exploit" or "hax method" for doing Turn 1.

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In Live Letter IX it was stated that it was not intended to be possible to ignore the stacking attack buffs on the snakes, hence the fact that you can means it is obviously "not working as intended." I'm not calling it an exploit, only pointing out that this is far from the first time we've seen them goof up their encounter tuning in Coil and given the track record it's likely they won't really care about fixing this either.

well don't worry, its good for the team to find that way to fight it, wonder if it still possible with just 2 healer cuz of that aoe dmg?
And im sure dev will do something about enrage after watching this.

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Originally Posted by Ruethryl

With a geared enough group you can ignore the slime mechanic completely in Turn 1 (i.e it'll split before it gets more than a stack anyways).

Turn 2, for a group that has been doing coil for the past several weeks I don't see the point to doing it this way.. you'll clear it faster just doing it the normal way .. personally have better things to do than AFK for 7 or 8 minutes to wait for it to get to 1 click to use this method so this isn't exactly a time saver :rolleyes:

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Again, not an exploit in any way IMHO. Why should a geared group have to do something that's unnecessary ? Garuda speed-run groups ignore plumes completely too - never heard of this called an "exploit"....

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Originally Posted by Raikki

In Live Letter IX it was stated that it was not intended to be possible to ignore the stacking attack buffs on the snakes, hence the fact that you can means it is obviously "not working as intended." I'm not calling it an exploit, only pointing out that this is far from the first time we've seen them goof up their encounter tuning in Coil and given the track record it's likely they won't really care about fixing this either.

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how would it be exploit if dev made the snake stack up max 8?, yes it would be an impossible fight if snake where able to stack up twice say 16 or 20 stacks.., 8 stack can still 2 shot a tank.

I think the saddest thing would be getting someone to fill a 1-4 coil group just to find they have never done T2 the normal way, especially if they are someone normally on silence rotation like a bard. As i said if you are doing this instead of learning ADS normally you are crippling yourself.

For groups that can do the normal method like clockwork the idea of sitting at the ADS door for 7 minutes because of one member is a joke.

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Originally Posted by zPanda

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Well...that is the definition of an exploit...using game mechanics to your advantage that was not intended. But like I said in my post. It's not an exploit until SE says it is.

I'm not saying the enrage on T2 is an exploit, but I can see how SE might think it is. It's an enrage...meaning the boss goes berserk and we aren't meant to survive it under normal circumstances.

On a different note, you could say locking mobs out of boss rooms ( WP for example) is an exploit. I honestly don't think SE intended us to skip mobs like that, but I may be wrong. I don't report anyone for doing it as I do it myself, but others I have DF'd with report me and my friends and tell us we're cheating. Also sleeping the treasure hunters to avoid those 2 tons at the beginning and delaying the stalker can be an exploit too.

Has a GM responded to this threat, yet? I'm very curious on SE's take.

Not an exploit IMO, but this is very different from a geared group overpowering Garuda HM -that's a bad comparison. This is a method for an uncoordinated group to bypass mechanics (the Chimera comparison is more fitting). It can't be what SE intended when they put the time into creating the mechanics for a fight that is still a challenge for most groups. I think those who go this route are doing themselves a bit of a disservice, as this is one of the most enjoyable fights in the game IMO; it's a shame we only get to do it once a week!

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Originally Posted by Noroi_Kisaragi

Would you consider this an exploit or not?

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I don't think this can be classified as an exploit, but I do know the crummy music you've got playing over the gameplay footage in that video is against SE's materials usage policy.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

Cure 3 in my gear = 10800 hp for 505 mp (without the crit bonus), ~21 hp recovered for every point of mp spent
Medica in my gear = 5,760 hp for 372 mp, ~15 hp for every point of mp spent.

Cure 3 is far more MP efficient than medica if you can hit all 8 people with it. Medica II should be use every time the regen wears off and this fight is easily doable with two healers.

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I'm still a bit skeptical. Not saying I don't believe you, of course. I haven't attempted it like that, but unless the DPS is monstrous, I'd imagine 2 healers would go OOM much too soon with Cure 3 spam over Medica.

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Originally Posted by Aerostein

I'm still a bit skeptical. Not saying I don't believe you, of course. I haven't attempted it like that, but unless the DPS is monstrous, I'd imagine 2 healers would go OOM much too soon with Cure 3 spam over Medica.

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Doing cure 3 allows you to not spam heal, but instead cure almost every other hit, taking turns with the other WHM. I already do cure 3 in the normal 3 healer strat, and its great on my mp. 2 healers would be easy.

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Originally Posted by Aerostein

I'd imagine 2 healers would go OOM much too soon with Cure 3 spam over Medica.

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You'll never oom faster using cure 3 over medica if people are stacked properly. You will always save yourself mp.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

You'll never oom faster using cure 3 over medica if people are stacked properly. You will always save yourself mp.

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I will try this, this week. After reading your post I'll experiment with it and see how it goes. I rarely use cure 3 since it's so situational. This time however I think it would outshine medica now that I think about it.

So how many of you are killing Caduceus without splitting and slimes?

Wipe mechanics are intended to be wipe mechanics. If they're not doing their job they need to be fixed.

kool video but they went against the rules (using non ingame music) so sadlly it will eb taken down soon :(

I like this strat being a healer i like the idea of not having to move alot.

Each time you do something it gets easier, eventually people will have the first 5 turns on farm. Remember when the wall in AK was the challenge and how laughably easy it as now?!

Would this strat only be doable using 2 whms? Because I main scholar (though I do have a whm semi geared - full dl and garuda wep) and how many bards would you need to keep mp up?

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Originally Posted by Ifervan

Each time you do something it gets easier, eventually people will have the first 5 turns on farm. Remember when the wall in AK was the challenge and how laughably easy it as now?!

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I think it has more to do with us over-gearing it (it was meant to be run in AF, but we're doing it in level 70~90 stuff) than practice.