[Petition] We want Red Mage!

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

As has been already mentioned, RDM is one of those Jobs that just wouldn't fit into ARR's narrow role-focused battle system.

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This is and isn't true. There's nothing in ARR's design which suggests a hybrid of melee and magic, including the range differences, would be infeasible. The real problem is that Red Mage traditionally has healing spells in its repertoire. We currently have one healing spell on a job which otherwise does not heal (SMN with Physick), and that is from a class which also has a healing job (SCH). If you remove healing spells from Red Mage, then implementation is trivial, but it's also a rather odd Red Mage. If you focus on healing, it's simply not a Red Mage at all.

FF11's RDM wasn't a Red Mage, either. It was an abomination.

Well Bio is an effect over time now! So Dia could still be used for armor or defensive reduction, like why not a hybrid fighter with support / offensive spell! Like a rapier ^^ don't forget it was a RDM relic!

/signed

pimp hat ftw.

I'd like it best if a similar version to the one in my signature was implemented. Melee focused Fencer that does enfeebling through ws additional effects and branches into Red Mage (DPS) and Mystic Knight (Tank).

If its "tl;dr" or not showing up (not seeing it on my end o.O):

Red Mage tl;dr: Stance to swap STR/DEX with INT/MND and reduce casting times so they can weave in spells while meleeing or if an encounter is too dangerous to be up front they can hang back and nuke. Dualcast: next 2 spells off of GCD. Attacks with element varying on current harnessed element. Can double the durations of next enfeebling attacks to fit in more time for nuking (especially if TP running low). Can equip THM and CNJ basic spells (thunder, fire, blizzard, stone, aero, cure) and some JA's so that they can follow traditional roots of same/similar spells but not the higher up ones (potencies and mp costs will need adjusting without UI/AF). Can toss out a cure if really needed (stronger than a SMN or BLM) but won't be as strong as a WHM's and has healer LB for that "support" type role and for access to in-battle emergency raise (also since AoE big damage DPS doesn't feel right).

Mystic Knight tl;dr: Stance to switch into tanking that gives def/mdef buffs and an enmity mechanic tying it to "enspells" (since they were originally not a red mage's). Shield and rapier but shield not as powerful as PLD. Focuses on reducing magic damage for self and party and other tanky things that consume the enspells for various effects (easily reapplied).

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

This is and isn't true.

FF11's RDM wasn't a Red Mage, either. It was an abomination.

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Actually RDM as a core job itself doesn't really work well in a MMO setting, partially because versatile hybrids are murder to balance, having a role is paramount in MMO's, and in ARR's case we don't have a reasonable amount of ability slots to offset the extensive versatility RDM is known for. The only way I can feasibly think RDM would fit into FFXIV is putting RDM into an actual "focused" role and build up it's spells and abilities off of that.

For example:
-DPS that combos with a combination of Weaponskills and Magical Nukes in tandem with slight support on the side.
-DPS that combos with a variety of "Magical" Weaponskills that could work off each other to increase their power (IE:using Water based WS's, making the next Thunder WS's more powerful)
-Low~Mid DPS/Support that improves allies abilities enhancing them or lowering their opponents. (IE: Increasing/decreasing buff/debuff durations, power, potency, etc for allies and enemies.)

But any way we go about it, one thing is gonna stand out when it comes to this RDM versus other FF versions of RDM, and that fact is FFXIV has unique abilities for each class/job. And while some classes/jobs do have similarities between each other, ARR is perhaps the first and only game in the FF franchise that gives RDM a true way to be unique despite the lore of using magic from other jobs. Sure we might get our own WS's, Thunder, Water, Fire, Cure, w/e, but you can be pretty damn sure they're not gonna all be carbon copies of BLM/WHM/GLA abilities...

and IMO that's the greatest thing we as RDM's can really wish for.

And yes FF11's RDM was a true abomination that Yoshi and his team should take notes on what not to do.

Don't speak for all of us. I want a Thief.

Trying to be a RDM, but still I must settle with my WHM or BLM... (and yes i am now Taru again , like i was in ver 1.0)
http://iloapp.snitchie.com/data/_gal...00_resized.png

If it's not doing as much damage as a real DPS nor can't support as well as a real support, why would anyone want one in his party ?

I do like RDM but I have to agree with XNihili... if they can't do as much dps, or heal as well as the usual ones, then I can see them being shunned for groups.

Signed

~Velyna Deschain

RDM in this game should have fancy looking fencer like attacks using rapiers. They should also get weapon enchants like enfire or enaeoro. Depending on the element, it would do different things for you while hitting the enemy for a bit extra damage. I.E. Enfire increase dmg by 5%, Enaero increase skill speed by 15%, Enthunder increase crit chance by 10% or something like that while also dealing an extra 10% dmg dealt as elemental damage. Maybe the level 50 skill could be giving your weapon the effects of all en spells at once. The other attacks should be instant cast nukes that deal small damage, however if you have enfire on your weapon then your attacks can give you a proc which will make your instant fire spell deal strong damage.

That's a basic idea that I have for rdm. I will say that it should not be a support class just because of the way this game is set up. With them going the trinity route, all dps classes should be able to deal the same relative dps, but just go about it in different ways. If they do decide to give them a heal, then give them a decent instacast HoT with a 5 sec cd or something along those lines.

RDM in FFXI wasnt a DPS nor a healer. Yes the job can do both things and even swing a sword. But all these 3 things a RDM did a poorer job then the main jobs for theese purposes. Its support a RDM shines. No other mage could do enfeebling magic as good as a RDM. Blind, Poison, BIO, DIA. And no other mage class could give as good Enhancing magic as a RDM. harder and better stoneskin, stronger protect etc.
All these support things are so easly forgotton since u cant measure them that well. You know a dps is good or bad just look at the output, same with healing. But the little things that can change the game totaly are SUPER important. A paralyze spell from RDM last WAY longer then a Paralyze from the WHM. Poison took more DOT dmg then from a blm. So yes WE MOST DEFF NEÈD RDM to fill this gap. Support players in enhancing magic, and support in crippling the mobs with awesome enfeeblings.

And dont get me started on SOLOing as a RDM in FFXI . Rdm is the most fun job there is for me. You can do it all!
RDM solo could kill gods long b4 the level cap got raised. Yes it took sometimes Avast like 1 hour+ to kill them but he did what normally an alliance of 3 parties took.

RDM in FFXIV solo Titan Hard mode this I would like to c :D

I want the DRK, not the RDM tbh.

Anyway, we'll see the Ninja before the RDM, for me we'll see a new class in an new extension.

Aaaaah my 2nd favorite class of all time:

Haste, refresh, phalanx, Enthunder, Enfire, Enaero, Enstone, (etc), Debuffs and Enhancements, etc etc etc.

RDM would be the perfect idea to actually introduce SUPPORT as a role for the DF. you can literally do anything as an RDM, so give us that option. The biggest roadblock from RDMs being true RDMs in FFXIV is the DF.

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Originally Posted by Genesiser

RDM in this game should have fancy looking fencer like attacks using rapiers. They should also get weapon enchants like enfire or enaeoro. Depending on the element, it would do different things for you while hitting the enemy for a bit extra damage. I.E. Enfire increase dmg by 5%, Enaero increase skill speed by 15%, Enthunder increase crit chance by 10% or something like that while also dealing an extra 10% dmg dealt as elemental damage. Maybe the level 50 skill could be giving your weapon the effects of all en spells at once. The other attacks should be instant cast nukes that deal small damage, however if you have enfire on your weapon then your attacks can give you a proc which will make your instant fire spell deal strong damage.

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you need to be able to cast the En-spells on other PT members, IMO

Signed! Some good ideas, anyway. Hope it comes sooner rather than later =P

The biggest Problem for a true "support" class is the 4-character-party design in this game.

In order to make a RDM work in this game I see two possibilities:

The RDM would have to be either so good at everything, that he could fill all roles (healer/tank/dd) as well as a focused job in this area in order to fit into the 4-character-party, OR he has to be made into *either* DD *or* healer *or* tank.

Option one would raise massive protests from all non-RDM... option two would raise massive protests from all RDM-supporters "what have you done? That is not a RDM!!".

So as much as I love RDM and as much as I would love to play a RDM here and sign this petition... I really dont see it coming in a sattisfying way.

But ... but ... but ... People here don't want the FFXI RDM, they don't want to be support, they want to be DPS, swing a sword and cast magic while wearing the pimp hat.
Some even said that FFXI RDM was an abomination ...

Why not up the DF to 5 man party? 2 DPS, 1 tank 1 heal 1 support??? And scale the DF mobs up.. Just my 2 cents.

The game clearly lacks this role. So if no support room is made, we will only see new jobs in the form of either a new tank, new healer or pure dps role. And this gets boring in the long run.

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Originally Posted by XNihili

But ... but ... but ... People here don't want the FFXI RDM, they don't want to be support, they want to be DPS, swing a sword and cast magic while wearing the pimp hat.
Some even said that FFXI RDM was an abomination ...

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You sure? Red Mage is a Jack-of-all-Trades class that should be able to close gaps and help out in various situations. That qualifies as a Support class to me.
What people didnt like in XI (from what I have seen) was the major focus on casting and lack of melee usage.

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Originally Posted by Trystan

You sure? Red Mage is a Jack-of-all-Trades class that should be able to close gaps and help out in various situations. That qualifies as a Support class to me.
What people didnt like in XI (from what I have seen) was the major focus on casting and lack of melee usage.

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You could gear your RDM for melee while doing your mage job. It's just that people don't let you because it's not the most efficient way.
And it would be the same in FFXIV as well, only the "best" way will be acknowledged.

EDIT : and if you could heal, support and DPS easily at the same time, it would be overpowered.

And FFXI solved the problem with rdm not good Melee, not good nuker with GEAR change. I do not want gear change in ffxiv like ffxi had, b4 i do this ws i take of my body and take on another body with more STR+ So unrealistic. And its correct of FFXIV not allowing gear change during combat.
But my FFXI RDM had melee gear when i used my sword. Nuke gear when i did dps, enfeebling gear when i did enfeebles. and so on.

So if they implement a support RDM. You can gear yourself b4 u enter the duty. If the party setup has poor heals from an undergeared whm healer, the rdm can equip heal + gear and help out with heals. same with nukes, and when doing all this at the same time be a SUPPORT on all the other roles.
This is what makes RDM so fun Jack of all trades. Master in none , but good in all (im like this in RL myself i know something about most things, but no master in just a few things)

Couple of points:

Yoshi has already said they plan to add RDM.
He's said RDM will likely require WHM and BLM to unlock.

With that in mind SE clearly have plans to let RDM use white and black magic in some form.

Honestly it doesn't take much imagination to come up with ways they could implement it without being OP. Those of you saying it wouldn't work aren't really considering ways of adapting it rather than just outright copying it from another game in the series. A job that self buffs its melee offense with magic whilst having proccing nukes and some emergency/support white magic to fall back on wouldn't be OP. If anything it would fall into a similar category as BRD is in now.

In for Red Mage as always!

/gimmegimmegimme

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Originally Posted by Genesiser

If they made it play like an enh shaman from wow I'd be all over it. You know, a quick melee type that shoots out quick spells off maelstrom procs that aren't super powerful but add up. I don't see why that would be a bad design seeing as they use rapiers and aren't known for giant nukes.

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I couldn't have said it better myself. I was a career Enhancement Shaman in WoW, and absolutely LOVE that play style. I've been waiting ever so patiently for SE to announce either RDM or DRK. I'd prefer to play RDM, though.

Petition: Stop making petition threads. And Yoshi already stated in a interview he would like RDM to be the first new job but it isnt going to happen, something about breaking the game. So you're getting it, eventually. In the mean time lets stop this petition threads please.

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Originally Posted by Genesiser

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I reaaaaaaaaally hope they never give RDM Enspells again. That's Mystic Knight territory!

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Originally Posted by Genesiser

If they made it play like an enh shaman from wow I'd be all over it. You know, a quick melee type that shoots out quick spells off maelstrom procs that aren't super powerful but add up. I don't see why that would be a bad design seeing as they use rapiers and aren't known for giant nukes.

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Enhancement Shaman is exactly what I think of when I hear ideas for RDM.

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

I reaaaaaaaaally hope they never give RDM Enspells again. That's Mystic Knight territory!

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Agreed! Sword magic should be left alone for Mystic Knights/Rune fencer. The only way I'd be okay with is if MK and red mage branch off from the same class but still I'd prefer it if they'd leave the en spell/sword magic to the mystic knight and try and find a way to make red mage a dps with more support abilities somewhat similar to bard but even more so. Them being a pure dps just seems as wrong as them being refresh bots.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Couple of points:

Yoshi has already said they plan to add RDM.

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It was never confirmed, but Yoshi said he wanted to add it because it was his favorite job. This all stemmed from a question in a Gamescom interview where the interviewer asked what job he would add if he didn't have to consider balance. In all honesty though don't expect RDM to be a cookie cutter version of itself taken from previous games, FFXIV likes to keep a uniqueness to abilities/spells in their classes/jobs and functionally I think it will operate differently from either WHM, BLM, or GLA.

I still think it is likely RDM will come off from Gladiator.

1. Swords
2. Shields
3. MP user
4. Damage mitigation focused (Stoneskin, Blink, Phalanx, Protect, Shell, Slow, Bio, Blind, Paralyze)
5. RDM in FF11 was big on tanking stuff alone. (As far as I know, their weakness was if the enemy got too much TP from other party members)

The only thing really working against my theory, is that it sounds like the double job system intends to offer different styles. So it seems unlikely Gladiator would go into 2 tank jobs. But it would be highly beneficial since then the stat allocation on Gladiator would suit both jobs.

No thank you, way too op and broken in pvp. Red mage was cool in tactics only ;)

No. We want Thief!

I didn't like red age in ffxi and I probably won't like it in ffxiv. Let's have jobs that are not as main stream! I think we have enough of that already.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

... RDM as a core job itself doesn't really work well in a MMO setting, partially because versatile hybrids are murder to balance ...
For example:
-DPS that combos with a combination of Weaponskills and Magical Nukes in tandem with slight support on the side.
-DPS that combos with a variety of "Magical" Weaponskills that could work off each other to increase their power (IE:using Water based WS's, making the next Thunder WS's more powerful)
-Low~Mid DPS/Support that improves allies abilities enhancing them or lowering their opponents. (IE: Increasing/decreasing buff/debuff durations, power, potency, etc for allies and enemies.)
And yes FF11's RDM was a true abomination that Yoshi and his team should take notes on what not to do.

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That's not a RDM that's a BLU ... o.O;
And FFXI RDM was an abomination due to sub-jobs; also know has RDM/NIN "style" DoTting for hours a boss!
But the job I WANT in this FFXIV IS BST! Not those "crumbles" jobs.

sounds nice, support.

Red Mage all the way~

To those that Say Arcanist is most like it...bull. Arcanist can't fight its way out of a wet paper bag without Carby to rip it up for them where physical combat is concerned.

Red Mage - Attacker with heal Limit Break
Gladiator Lv30 / Thaumaturge Lv15

Job Skills

1. Blaze Spikes - single buff - Enemies that hit you take damage
2. Enthunder - AOE buff - Adds lightning damage to party's attacks
3. Haste - Single buff - increase skill and spell speed by 20% (stacks with fairy)
4. Refresh - Single buff - Regenerates target MP
5. Dispel - Removes a buff from enemy

Morphed Gladiator skills

• Savage Blade - Delivers an attack with potency of 100.
  Combo Action: Fast Blade, Combo Potency: 250.
• Shield Lob - Delivers an attack with a potency of 120.
  Additional Effect: Dot for 20 potency.

Cross class - Thaumaturge / Conjurer

• Cure
• Aero
• Cleric Stance
• Raise
• Stoneskin
• Protect
• Fire
• Blizzard
• Thunder
• Surecast
• Swiftcast

I'm totally for RDM only if it is based on its own class. It needs to have a rapier and it needs to primarily use enhancements and enfeebles.

If the weapon is a sword, you could easily take a base class and make it RDM on one end and DRK on the other. Just sayin'.

RDM would be red leather robes and the feathered hat with a rapier while DRK would be scale/plate armor with a 2h sword. Base abilities could remain sword-based combos. Job abilities would be dramatically different mechanics and looks. Could be cool.