Concerns about Content Patch 2.1

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Originally Posted by Trancery

I'm definitely unsubbing until more is added. Sorry Yoshi, but if the real game starts at 50, well then you've sadly missed the point of how mmos (and life in general) should be about the Journey and not the Destination.

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and then people ask why developers listen to casuals instead of hardcores. Casuals keep subbed because they enjoy all types of content. So goodbye content <word that starts with L>, see you next patch

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Originally Posted by Trancery

Life is too short to waste in a game that you're no longer having fun in. See you next Patch Ashy ;)

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now you are making sense. But you know this state of affairs won't change right? leveling will still be the same fate grind. New dungeons arrive and you have to spam those dungeons.

Why am I content with this "shallow" content? Well, where do I start. I don't find FATE leveling boring. I have played Tera FFXI and WoW (not an impressive resume on MMO experience but whatever) And know the grind, I have grinded:
Multiple jobs in FFXI (red mage dark Knight warrior were the only ones i managed to get to 75)
Multiple "toons" in WoW and
A marshall rank in Vanilla WoW when they implemented the ladder type honor system
One character in Tera

This grind? pffft this is nothing! this is like baby stuff, and I do want to have all my jobs with relic at 50. I have a goal and I intend to do it, it's not hard but it's not something everybody is willing to do.

I want to try Coils probably next week. I'm not that interested in the gear but I want to continue the story.

The crafting is sooooo adictive to me that I decided to stop and continue with battle classes first.

This game might not be for you but man am I in love.

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Originally Posted by ashikenshin

and then people ask why developers listen to casuals instead of hardcores. Casuals keep subbed because they enjoy all types of content. So goodbye content <word that starts with L>, see you next patch

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I am a casual player you silly goose. If leveling was something other than teleporting around and spamming 1, 2 on my keybar (not to mention the atrocious lag that goes with it) or if dungeon queue didn't take forever w/o the possibility to do other things while you wait, then I'd quite enjoy leveling up another class.

Problem is it is not, the leveling 1-50 is bland and boring once the main story is over. The 2 endgame dungeons you have to run 50 times to get a full DL set. I did that, and quite frankly I'm burned out on those. Can I ask why you are so content with such shallow 'content'?

Life is too short to waste in a game that you're no longer having fun in. See you next Patch Ashy ;)

Early years of FFXI and WoW...now those were the days... :)

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Originally Posted by Trancery

This game after you beat the main story quest (which is fantastic by the way and certainly deserves credit where credit is due) is incredibly shallow ... Sorry Yoshi, but if the real game starts at 50, well then you've sadly missed the point of how mmos (and life in general) should be about the Journey and not the Destination.

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1. The story was not fantastic. It was mediocre and boring and extremely disappointing for a FF game. It didn't even feel like a real FF story.
2. Yeah, you're right, it's pretty boring.
3. For the record, MMOs do start at level cap. That's just the way it is. Yoshi isn't wrong. It's you! If you really like the journey more than the destination, then you should count your lucky stars that you are able to level all classes to 50 on the same toon! Keep enjoying that journey!

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Originally Posted by Xystic

Because you feel that player housing should come before FC housing does not mean that most people are with you on this issue.

Other community members obviously do not agree with you on that point in this thread. You have members on both sides. Please keep that in mind before bulking the community with you.

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Well i certainly agree with him, i have no free company so free company housing doesn't concern me. So far this 2.1 update has only one thing that interests me, and that's the beauty salon. Hardly enough to keep someone subbed. I feel come January the 600,000+ subs will take a bit of a drop since some subbed for 3 months for the rewards, myself included. But i guess we'll just have to wait and see.

But leveling everything to 50 after the first time is excruciating. That is my point. MMO's should be about the journey. It should take longer than 2 weeks - month to CAP your character. It should be a long and rewarding process. Where you do meaningful things along the way, encounter hard obstacles, meet great friends, explore amazing worlds.

FFXIV ARR is just an instanced and zoned themepark...The world "or the content that is actually relevant" is incredibly small.

I think SE did themselves a disservice by pushing everything into 2.1. What they should have done is kept on the media bandwagon with regular updates splitting 2.1 over October to the end of the year. That way there would be continued media coverage on places like IGN and MMORPG.com etc.

Also some content is just too huge to be released with a multitude of other things.

And personally while I like huge patches I dislike the effect it has on the status quo of the community. Suddenly the whole nature of the daily game changes and everything else is suddenly old abandoned content. It would not be so "shocking" if things were added piecemeal.

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Originally Posted by Mariwanna

1. The story was not fantastic. It was mediocre and boring and extremely disappointing for a FF game. It didn't even feel like a real FF story.

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I enjoyed the story, but I think all of the fetch quests that were included for artificial padding kind of ruined it a bit. Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium felt pretty epic to me, but maybe that's because I did them with friends the first time through. I don't think this story was comparable to most of FFXI's story (especially CoP, but I don't think any MMO will compare to that), but it was lightyears ahead of most MMOs, and I was sad to finish the MSQ scenarios.

Whilst I currently enjoy the game very much the endgame is severly lacking, other games have launched with more and then released their first major patch by now.

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Originally Posted by roohan

There is alot other stuff to do besides running endgame dungeons. People just limit themselves with doing only endgame dungeon content.

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There is a lot of fun and content to do depending on the type of player you are.. Some players are end-game players, some like to smell the roses, some like achievements. Yea there is all that stuff, but not everyone is going to be happy to just do all of it.. It is pay to play and unfortunately, that means they need to cater to all playerbases, or some stop paying to play.

If some stop paying, the people that enjoy the OTHER content are going to suffer in the long run. No need to throw the other payers aside like they are doing it wrong. It is their money, and I want SE to have it as well!

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Originally Posted by Trancery

Early years of FFXI and WoW...now those were the days... :)

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A large part of that nostalgia towards older games is the fact that they were new. There was a sense of wonder and excitement because of that newness. To put it quite crudely, the cherry is popped on that now, it's not coming back (unless you're actually new). That sense of wonder and excitement has been replaced with 8 years of pretty much grinding the same thing over and over.

The world is different and we are different. There's no putting the genie back in the bottle.

i do think Square should just give out Allagan to those people that feel they are waiting too long :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Slate

i do think Square should just give out Allagan to those people that feel they are waiting too long :rolleyes:

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So you want people to quit sooner?

Fee for game: 50$
Monthly Subscription: 13$
Cost over one year: 13*12 + 50 = 206$

Average price of game: 50$
206$ is therefore equivalent to about 4 new games.

Average play time for RPG/Adventure like games = 50 hours.
4 * 50 = 200 hours.

Therefore it is reasonable to expect at least 200 hours of new/non-repetitive game play per year.

I think we are nearly at the 200 hour point, and no where near the 1 year point.

To expect more content than 4 games, for a price less than 4 games is to expect business madness. And they are not here to loose money.

COULD they deliver the equivalent of a brand new game every year: Sure
Are you willing to pay 50$/mo subscription fee to warrant that? Nope.

Ergo, the problem and compromise.

With respect to the OP, you only have one crafting class (at level 5) and one gathering class (at level 17). You've made a thread about a lack of content when you've ignored more than half of the game's existing features.

And your character isn't wearing any pants.

FF14 ARR isn't suffering from something Square can fix. If you are running FATE marathons to get to 50 in a week, you will burn out and you will leave. This isn't about lack of content. It's about tunnel vision and Min/Max evaluations of the content.

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Originally Posted by Taemek

It matters not here if you class yourself as a casual or hardcore player, the fact is, 2.1 is looking to be released after the New Year and in my honest opinion, with the current content that is here, that is too long to wait and people will start looking for greener pastures.

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I'm pretty sure it is still a December release. Not sure where you are getting this after new year info.

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Originally Posted by Taemek

and trust me, after your 6th and 7th level 50, Fates and grinding WP/AK gets old, really fast.

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No one forced you to use Fates to level up. You could have chosen dungeons instead.

Hello,

We’ve been seeing comments asking why we cannot make certain changes or fixes quicker as opposed to waiting for 2.1.

When it comes to bug fixes that have been reported and replicated by the QA team as well as changes and adjustments that are requested, the development team makes these change or fixes which are then tested by QA for stability. For each change and bug fix that is made, the team confirms that the rest of the game is unaffected and that server crashes or other issues do not take place.

FFXIV is being developed by a branch-development method, where there is a group working on patch 2.1 while 2.0 is running. Critical bugs that severely affect play, which have been confirmed and replicated, are addressed in the shortest amount of time as possible. Changes designed off of feedback, that also have large effects on the entire game, are ultimately implemented on a schedule decided by the Producer/Director Yoshi-P.

Additionally, the QA team checks and ensures all fixes and changes are stable on both the Windows and PS3 versions. These checks are consolidated and performed when major updates are scheduled.

To thoroughly address each concern, we are unable to perform fixes and changes for everything immediately, and as a result some changes are addressed with major patches and updates. We appreciate your understanding in regards to this.

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Originally Posted by Camate

To thoroughly address each concern, we are unable to perform fixes and changes for everything immediately, and as a result some changes are addressed with major patches and updates. We appreciate your understanding in regards to this.

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This has zero to do with the OP.. Hes not talking about bugs hes talking about delaying content

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Originally Posted by silverhope

This has zero to do with the OP.. Hes not talking about bugs hes talking about delaying content

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Camate didn't read the OP I guess.

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Originally Posted by silverhope

This has zero to do with the OP.. Hes not talking about bugs hes talking about delaying content

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Actually it does. In a branch model, new content is being created independent of the main line. Bug fixes on the other hand are implemented on the mainline as well as the branch.

What this means is that bug fixes can be rolled out simply through the QA process, while new features require substantial patch releases and testing cycles because it isn't merely a fix to mainline but an entirely different branch.

This is why they sometimes mention that they would like to release things sooner but cannot because of the work involved in breaking out one new feature from the branch, and merging it back into the mainline.

Releases that are designed around regular patches typically have this kind of structure.

You have a mainline (2.0) and a development (2.1) which is where major changes go into. You maintain 2.0 for bugfixes, but only occasionally backport changes from the development line (2.1) because the differences can be substantial in the code base, making it very difficult to safely do. Usually backports only occur for substantial flaws like security patches, where the current design is fundamentally flawed.

Once 2.1 is rolled out, they branch again (2.2) where again major changes will be going, and the process will continue. 2.1 will be hardened and only changed for bug-fixes or minor changes which are implemented simultaneously, or very rarely a backport.

Trying to implement substantial changes into both branches would require a significantly more aggressive QA progress and instead of speeding up patches, would slow them down. (or would involve releasing less tested software... Which nobody wants)

I have to agree with the OP on this. These giant lump patches are no reason to withhold EVERY major change created for the game.

As several people have already posted there's no reason a right-click blist option couldn't have been added in the 2.05 hotfix or one of the many planned Monday night maintenances.

Then there's the thought: if the dev make some big breakthrough on a major bug like that nasty 0.3 lag or get some high coveted QoL feature like Vanity Slots 100% up and running, will they really just leave them digitally shelved for months until the "next big patch"? That just doesn't make any sense.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Doomsayer threads will continue to pop up with increasing frequency leading up to 2.1 as more and more people feel the need to whine as if making these threads will somehow cause new contents to come out faster (they don't). Once 2.1 is out we'll have some reprieve for a week or so until the whiners return to whine more about the same old crap until 2.2.

Standard MMO forum culture. Nothing to see here. Move along.

[QUOTE=Maxthunder;1549810]

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Originally Posted by Taemek

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SE could do the following: make open world mobs viable meaning they pose a threat, add open world grind parties, open world hnm's that actually give something of use (unlike behemouth and odin currently), use grand company seals to buy hnm pop items (1 time use win or lose), bcnm's (again gc seals for the item or the um beastman if you can call them that will drop them). There is so much more that could be done with the open world to improve all players experiences.

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yeah i like this idea! was discussing this with a friend the other day. these systems alone gave you A LOT to do in 11. competition for NM's is also frustrating as hell but keeps palyers playing XD. love the idea for GC seals!!

competition for NM's is bad because of distance from servers and bots. No thank you! keep that **** out of this game.

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Originally Posted by silverhope

This has zero to do with the OP.. Hes not talking about bugs hes talking about delaying content

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I think the case here is ya'll didn't read Camates response completely.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Changes designed off of feedback, that also have large effects on the entire game, are ultimately implemented on a schedule decided by the Producer/Director Yoshi-P.

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Basically, if it can wait and isn't critical, it's gonna get pushed back to one of their scheduled updates.

Critical bugs and other issues, can delay content if it doesn't get rectified by launch date. Or the date just gets pushed back.

The post above describing backporting etc. hits the nail on the head. Even if say Crystal Tower was "Gold" for lack of a better term, it's "Gold" on the development version of the game and therefore might wind up throwing bugs if it's applied standalone. From a QA perspective it's a lot more time and cost efficient to lump all the changes in a large patch and run it ALL through QA at once rather than run each change through QA as it's ready. No matter how big or small the changepoint, QA will need to test it using the same protocols, so releasing content as it goes "Gold" would give QA an unbelievably massive workload.

QA is a portion of my job at work and while we don't program games, we do manage the assembly of a fairly complicated automobile component and I can tell you that I MUCH prefer getting all the technical drawings at once and updating my documents ONCE rather than have them trickle in and be constantly going through the update process (which involves a multiperson review for even small changes)

sure people will cheat, they always do, they are doing it now XD. BUT its a system that worked for "YEARS" in 11. its fun, challenging, and rewarding. furthermore if it was there it deosnt mean YOU have to do it but its an option for players. and if the rewards warrant the time invested then it will be even more appealing.

yeah i really liked the BCNM idea with GC seals, have them drop items at an absolutely ignorant rate, items you NEED for housing crafting or some such XD. players will be playing for years to come XD

besides, as is the case with most software, if you touch something, something else breaks! Therefore, for a patch like this they have to put all they have in one build and test it all together, bug fixes and new content. That way you can see if one of the new content is colliding with a bug fix or viceversa. Testing takes a while.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Camate didn't read the OP I guess.

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He wasn't answering to the OP, but to the people making comments about why content gets delayed.

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Originally Posted by Camate

We’ve been seeing comments asking why we cannot make certain changes or fixes quicker as opposed to waiting for 2.1.

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Reason for the delay being, since you guys are haing reading comprehension problems: it's better to implement stuff together than one by one, because every time you add something, there is a possibility that it will break something else. Once a pack of thing is well implemented and tested and proved mostly harmless it gets added to the game.
God is it so hard to read?

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Originally Posted by Wilan

(...) it's better to implement stuff together than one by one, because every time you add something, there is a possibility that it will break something else. Once a pack of thing is well implemented and tested and proved mostly harmless it gets added to the game.
God is it so hard to read?

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As you can see in this and other threads, many individuals seem to be severely incapable of reading.

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Originally Posted by SecondNature

(...) We dont care about the bugs, we are talking about added content and quality of life features that can be EASILY (IE i could do most of them in a days work) and patched in. It is pure laziness and incompetence by the dev team at this point.

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features that can be EASILY (IE i could do most of them in a days work) and patched in. It is pure laziness and incompetence by the dev team at this point.

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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

This forum is pure gold!

Today I learnt that setting up for a few items to be stored into the armoire has a possibility to break something else. So it has to wait and get implemented later with a lump patch.

I agree with OP, it isn't a good idea to keep delaying this stuff to release it all at once when there is little to do each week. This game has turned into..log in on Monday, cap myth, do T1-5 and log off for the rest of the week. This is not how I pictured FFXIV: ARR...

They could have done TWO patches by the time they release 2.1 >.< And then there is that vanity thread that people want so bad but they still won't release it in 2.1.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

I agree with OP, it isn't a good idea to keep delaying this stuff to release it all at once when there is little to do each week. This game has turned into..log in on Monday, cap myth, do T1-5 and log off for the rest of the week. This is not how I pictured FFXIV: ARR...

They could have done TWO patches by the time they release 2.1 >.< And then there is that vanity thread that people want so bad but they still won't release it in 2.1.

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^truth. /word

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Originally Posted by Camate

Hello,

We’ve been seeing comments asking why we cannot make certain changes or fixes quicker as opposed to waiting for 2.1.

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So when are you guys going to fix the mog station?

One of these days...

There have been QoL improvements in minipatches.

Repair prices, Dungeon Trash dropping gil anyone?

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

I agree with OP, it isn't a good idea to keep delaying this stuff to release it all at once when there is little to do each week. This game has turned into..log in on Monday, cap myth, do T1-5 and log off for the rest of the week. This is not how I pictured FFXIV: ARR...

They could have done TWO patches by the time they release 2.1 >.< And then there is that vanity thread that people want so bad but they still won't release it in 2.1.

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You people are pure gold. First you race to lvl 50 to do the end game and then you complain about not having anything to do because you raced there. Then when others finally catch up, you complain the content you did at end game is old. Well, maybe if you would not race, you would not be complaining.


Even if patch 2.1 will be released in januari it is only 4 months after release, which is perfectly acceptable for a content patch, pretty much every mmo developer does this, some take even longer.

Though I will agree with you, there is not much to do at this point. A third or even a fourth dungeon would have been nice, but honestly its up to par with every other major mmo ever released. Even World Of Warcraft took several months to get more content and at release, it did not have much more then we have now. In fact, I believe we have more then WoW had in the beginning.

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Originally Posted by Taemek

Bunch of BS about increased social media and Internet availability equating to people actually having more available time to game.

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Just because people have more access to the Internet does not mean they have more available time today than they did onthe early years of MMOs. 15 years ago when MMOs were just barely coming out most players were unpopular teenagers with loads of free time to devote to the sole endeavor of progressing on their favorite MMO. Today a good chunk of the MMO population are adults and/or people who have busy lives and don't have the hours free back to back to burn through the content or the justify the pointless time sinks you used to see in MMOs. If you take a minute and think (maybe even consider how your arguments might be countered) before you open your mouth you'll be much less likely to say something stupid.