Is SE's Marketing / PR department -severely- hurting the games chances of success?

Yes, it stops at summer. I agree.

As in "before the fall."

You're proving my point, j-a.

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Originally Posted by Poipori

Don't be fooled by those that say patch 1.18 will be a game changer.

Based on the blueprint and producer's letter, 1.18(i.e June update) will feature only ONE rank50 dungeon, ONE rank30 dungeon, CORE auto attack(meaning something sucky), and some other minor changes.

Just be prepared for another huge disappointment.

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This is what I'm expecting as well and will be the death of this game for me, if it isn't semi decent at least bare minimum...

If it does fail, perhaps time to kick Yoshi out like what happened to Tanaka and get someone else, I foresee a horrible and vicious cycle..

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Originally Posted by Shai

Yes, it stops at summer. I agree.

As in "before the fall."

You're proving my point, j-a.

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So you're saying if someone said to you "drive until the end of the road then take a right" you would drive halfway or past the road and then take a right? Pretty sure you would crash =very= quickly

Try this one: I filled out this form up until page 3.

Did I fill out page 3? Yes.
Though it's implied that I stopped before the end of it.

Did I stop on page 2? Nope.

Goddamn. I am right. You guys are being ridiculous.
Carry on. I'm done with this thread.
Go ahead and mock me to your hearts content.

Yoshida's wording was ambiguous at best, but accurate nonetheless. Good day, gentlemen.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

So you're saying if someone said to you "drive until the end of the road then take a right" you would drive halfway or past the road and then take a right? Pretty sure you would crash =very= quickly

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one more "for the road."

Your grammar is wrong. You would drive to the end of the road.
You could even drive up to the end of the road, but that doesn't imply stopping at the beginning, does it?
There's some follow through implied.

Keep proving my points, though. I don't mind. Hasta.

The only "PR and Marketing" for this game is in slumber because they dare not breath a word about it to the general public until it's representable. As for us who are currently playing, they don't need to "Earn" our support nor do they need to impress us. SE needs to make this game work for the general public not the small crowd of people either cheering or booing them.

They give us information when they think it's ready to come out, they will continue to be as "Cryptic" as you say, as they want. Summer 2011 isn't what I would call vague, it sounds like the entirety of the season, summer is a season not a date on a callendar. Hell they can delay everything on that list and not tell us until months afterwards. I doubt the entire list will be finished by summer it was a massive undertaking and we the comunity continue to throw them more and more curvballs that they need to adjust too to make sure the game comes out in the best possible shape for when it is re-released.

Yoshida gave us a timeline, not a set date. The game is still in developement and developement scheduels can and will change to fit the needs of the game. Nobody cares if "Summer" comes and goes and there is still work to do. If thats outside of your realm of perception you don't have to wait the door is over there and we wont miss you one bit. If the game fails so be it, but what we don't need is blind pecimism with little to no basis.

Marketing and PR for this game is the last thing on there mind, as it should be.

*edit*
Whats with all the stupid semantics about the TRANSLATED developer post? Translation errors happen all the time and unless you are fluint in Japanese I doubt you can go double check the official post to see if it's 100% flawless anyways.

Who cares if it was "Summer 2011" or "Until summer 2011" It can and will probably be much longer than that.

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Originally Posted by Shai

Try this one: I filled out this form up until page 3.

Did I fill out page 3? Yes.
Though it's implied that I stopped before the end of it.

Did I stop on page 2? Nope.

Goddamn. I am right. You guys are being ridiculous.
Carry on. I'm done with this thread.
Go ahead and mock me to your hearts content.

Yoshida's wording was ambiguous at best, but accurate nonetheless. Good day, gentlemen.

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um no.. if you say up until page 3 you did not fill out page 3. I provided you with the official definitions of the word which backs my point up....

Just one more time, I guess. ^^ Haha.

"until" means to a certain point.
"up until" means the latest time, or ending time of something that occurs.

I promise. So up until summer? It means the end time will be SUMMER. Not when summer starts, but during summer (aka before the autumn). I hope I posted enough times to get through to some people. ^^

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Originally Posted by Shai

Just one more time, I guess. ^^ Haha.

"until" means to a certain point.
"up until" means the latest time, or ending time of something that occurs.

I promise. So up until summer? It means the end time will be SUMMER. Not when summer starts, but during summer (aka before the autumn). I hope I posted enough times to get through to some people. ^^

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this argument is pointless since the last line of the letter was "(Remember, these are our plans until summer 2011!)"

Derail your own thread more, man, just cause you have a hard on for being right.

You have a good OP. Keep it going. Don't let me stop your momentum.

(Belay my last. I want this back on track.)

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Originally Posted by Jynx

The only "PR and Marketing" for this game is in slumber because they dare not breath a word about it to the general public until it's representable. As for us who are currently playing, they don't need to "Earn" our support nor do they need to impress us. SE needs to make this game work for the general public not the small crowd of people either cheering or booing them.

They give us information when they think it's ready to come out, they will continue to be as "Cryptic" as you say, as they want. Summer 2011 isn't what I would call vague, it sounds like the entirety of the season, summer is a season not a date on a callendar. Hell they can delay everything on that list and not tell us until months afterwards. I doubt the entire list will be finished by summer it was a massive undertaking and we the comunity continue to throw them more and more curvballs that they need to adjust too to make sure the game comes out in the best possible shape for when it is re-released.

Yoshida gave us a timeline, not a set date. The game is still in developement and developement scheduels can and will change to fit the needs of the game. Nobody cares if "Summer" comes and goes and there is still work to do. If thats outside of your realm of perception you don't have to wait the door is over there and we wont miss you one bit. If the game fails so be it, but what we don't need is blind pecimism with little to no basis.

Marketing and PR for this game is the last thing on there mind, as it should be.

*edit*
Whats with all the stupid semantics about the TRANSLATED developer post? Translation errors happen all the time and unless you are fluint in Japanese I doubt you can go double check the official post to see if it's 100% flawless anyways.

Who cares if it was "Summer 2011" or "Until summer 2011" It can and will probably be much longer than that.

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If this game can't impress current players there will be no networking effect in promotions for the game (ex. no one will tell their friends to go buy it).
If this games reputation gets considerably worse (ex. been around for a year and still broken) no one will take it seriously when its fixed

Its basic marketing that you always please the customer EVEN if they are a$$holes because an angry customer or a customer who dislikes your product can do a lot of damage.

If a lot of people quit because of SE now, their friends will know about it, and then never want to get the game.

When a game has a horrible reputation you can't overturn it overnight. Launching a huge advertising campaign when the game is fixed won't do anything when people go to game sites and see the game has a 4.0 rating.

The only way for this game to be successful now is by word of mouth and MAYBE via PS3 release in Japan.
And for that to occur, marketing and PR is needed -now-

Ahh, the number of times of sheer disappointment when a patch is released.

"Woohoo! NMs are coming! this is gonna be fun!" -> 5 NMs

"Woohoo! quests are coming! this is gonna be fun!" -> kill X mob, fetch X item.

"Woohoo! grand companies are coming! this is gonna be fun!" -> 1 webpage + 1 introduction quest

Just remember to set the bar low(extremely low) when it comes to patches.

Azurymber: Thank you!!!!!!!!! You couldn't have said it better. Everything you said it spot on and timely.

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Originally Posted by Poipori

Just remember to set the bar low(extremely low) when it comes to patches.

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I'm not limber enough to play Limbo if the bar is too low.. My body is... not ready.

I agree to a point that they don't need to worry about losing us as customers, so they don't exactly need to cater to us, but shouldn't they want us promoting their game for them? Shouldn't they want their current players saying "You guys need to come back! You can't believe the last patch! You can't believe how different the game is! You can't believe how well the forums have turned out, how good communication is, how nice it is to have back and forth with the Reps/Devs!"

I promoted the shit out of this game for SE before launch and ended up with a foot in my mouth.

It's going to take some doing before I'm sending off the emails and Facebook posts saying "Seriously! Give it a (another) try!"

I don't even admit openly I play XIV cause I get laughed at by friends & Gamestop employees. :/

I wonder if FFXIV has a facebook page on how much it sucks... if it did wonder how many likes it has... someone should start one maybe it would be a kick in the rear that SE needs.

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Originally Posted by Shai

I agree to a point that they don't need to worry about losing us as customers, so they don't exactly need to cater to us, but shouldn't they want us promoting their game for them? Shouldn't they want their current players saying "You guys need to come back! You can't believe the last patch! You can't believe how different the game is! You can't believe how well the forums have turned out, how good communication is, how nice it is to have back and forth with the Reps/Devs!"


I promoted the shit out of this game for SE before launch and ended up with a foot in my mouth.

It's going to take some doing before I'm sending off the emails and Facebook posts saying "Seriously! Give it a (another) try!"

I don't even admit openly I play XIV cause I get laughed at by friends & Gamestop employees. :/

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Dude didnt you know PC users do not associate with console gamers....EVER!

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Dude didnt you know PC users do not associate with console gamers....EVER!

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OMG.. I'm both PC and Console... I'm a monster... don't look at me.. *growls*

<insert sad Disney solo song about that being different is OK>

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Dude didnt you know PC users do not associate with console gamers....EVER!

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LOL - I am a console gamer. I played FFXI, FFXIV and Borderlands on PC in the last 10 years.

(and Borderlands because I got it for $5 - as opposed to the $30 GOTY version consoles are putting out)

Though since I have the computer for it, I may get ES V: Skyrim for PC, too.
Probably should have gone with Dragon Age 2, but I started Origins on PS3.

Maybe I'm converting(?). :(

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

If this game can't impress current players there will be no networking effect in promotions for the game (ex. no one will tell their friends to go buy it).
If this games reputation gets considerably worse (ex. been around for a year and still broken) no one will take it seriously when its fixed

SE may have to take a bullet with no current players willing to network the game for them, but SE still has alot of star power despite what people on this forum seem to think. A proper relaunch "treating PS3 as an expansion can fix alot of the problems above"

Its basic marketing that you always please the customer EVEN if they are a$$holes because an angry customer or a customer who dislikes your product can do a lot of damage.

"Give em the Pickle" I'm sure you might have picked this up at whatever industry you work in that has customer service. On a mass marketing scale thats not the same case. Giving in to customer demand can sometimes break your profits instead of creating them. You need to know what market your aiming for and please them. Us currently play are not the target market, many who are here on these forums playing or hating. We make a small percentage of even what XI a "Hardcore" MMO membership consists of. Pleasing us does nothing for them aside from some "Street cred" with the ultra hardcore gamers still willing to give the game a chance.

If a lot of people quit because of SE now, their friends will know about it, and then never want to get the game.

Answers above

When a game has a horrible reputation you can't overturn it overnight. Launching a huge advertising campaign when the game is fixed won't do anything when people go to game sites and see the game has a 4.0 rating.

PS3 Launch and some proper lubrication of the gaming media can more or less erase the failure that was the launch and even hype it up as a game "rising from the ashes" SE knows PR and Marketing better than you think. Final Fantasy games "in general" sell in the millions. They are a large force in the gaming industry, and I wouldn't put it past them to know how to turn the bad press into good press for the re-release.

The only way for this game to be successful now is by word of mouth and MAYBE via PS3 release in Japan.
And for that to occur, marketing and PR is needed -now-

Who are they going to market too? IF they expose more people to the game in it's current state it will do nothing but drive them away. They will beging marketing when the game is ramping up for PS3 release. The PS3 release is SE's trump card and chance to have a second round with the gaming media, releasing it now is pre-mature and will harm them in the long run. Marketing and PR will begin when it's in SE's Favor

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Marketing isn't as black and white as you seem to think it is, SE knows when to start to ramp up the hype train and they will do it when it's in there best interests.

Are you serious?!

I think we can all see quite clearly XIV is doing a great job of hurting itself and it certainly doesn't need a PR-team to do it.

I hope XIV is financially worth advertising in about 20 months.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Marketing isn't as black and white as you seem to think it is, SE knows when to start to ramp up the hype train and they will do it when it's in there best interests.

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Not they dont, they have never really been the type to ramp things up when they should, the mostly dont even advertise lol

You're right, Jynx, but you don't give a good reason to dismiss "street cred."

That's the only thing your argument lacks. Unless, you're trying to say - if we lure back people now while the game is still weak and they quit a 2nd time, they are probably gone for good, where as if SE just keeps pissing us off and we tell our friends to wait longer - they have a real potential customer down the road.

If that's what you're saying (or if it isn't) then I guess that makes sense, but it sucks from our standpoint. Just thinking about it makes me want to quit, but sadly SE & I both know I won't until this Battle System proves itself.

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Originally Posted by Ostia

Not they dont, they have never really been the type to ramp things up when they should, the mostly dont even advertise lol

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They do but you have to look for it, like there advertisement on Discovery Channel while I was watching Man Vs Wild for FFXIII also there was this commercial from japan of XIV with actors and stuff cosplaying but its hard to find on the net now since SE must of hunted it down as they didn't want it to be published online.

Which reminds me I must see that commercial... must see.. must see.. cosplay!!

I have to laugh at the people taking what is said so litteraly from SE... you have to remember this stuff is translated from Japanese, and alot of the time, done poorly.

"Up until summer" I read that as "till the end of summer"

Now I read it like this, not because I can not understand my own language, but I use a little common sense and am used to reading SEs announcements ;p


They have their patch release plans from now till the end of summer laid out.

Now this is how I read it, could I be wrong? yeah sure.... do I care if I am wrong? no, why should I? If I am wrong them I am wrong, and I move on.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Marketing isn't as black and white as you seem to think it is, SE knows when to start to ramp up the hype train and they will do it when it's in there best interests.

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You are thinking of SE right? The hype train I remember before release was everyone pooping on SE over the surplus system. Oh yeah and SE coming out and asking publications not to review the game until they had stolen potential buyers money for a full 30 days.

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Originally Posted by Ostia

Not they dont, they have never really been the type to ramp things up when they should, the mostly dont even advertise lol

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I guess XIII selling over 5 million copies was a mere fluke for a game that received a rather luke warm reception from critics and the Final Fantasy series selling near 100million units as a whole is just some form of terrible PR and marketing. Just because it's not blaring on TV like a Halo add doesn't mean they don't know how to get the word out.

The gil sink issue is definitely one that should've been prepared for before the game even launched.

At the very least they should have established a long-term means of progression for end-game that requires some monetary expenses (item collection, purchasable faction rewards, etc)

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Originally Posted by Shai

You're right, Jynx, but you don't give a good reason to dismiss "street cred."

That's the only thing your argument lacks. Unless, you're trying to say - if we lure back people now while the game is still weak and they quit a 2nd time, they are probably gone for good, where as if SE just keeps pissing us off and we tell our friends to wait longer - they have a real potential customer down the road.

If that's what you're saying (or if it isn't) then I guess that makes sense, but it sucks from our standpoint. Just thinking about it makes me want to quit, but sadly SE & I both know I won't until this Battle System proves itself.

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Oh I didn't say it doesn't suck for US as the more loyal fans of the series, we are putting in good time and effort into making sure they have the proper information to build us a better game. But luring players to the game at this point in time would be the worst "marketing" that anyone would ever do.

When the game is acceptable for subscribers they will trumpet about it don't worry.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I guess XIII selling over 5 million copies was a mere fluke for a game that received a rather luke warm reception from critics and the Final Fantasy series selling near 100million units as a whole is just some form of terrible PR and marketing. Just because it's not blaring on TV like a Halo add doesn't mean they don't know how to get the word out.

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5 Million sales is weak for a franchise that is as well known as final fantasy. I think modern Warfare 2 sold more than that in the first 4 or 5 days.

Azury is right, Shai is wrong; but we can't do anything about it because SE is a bunch of liars and manipulators so it's going to be Shai's way.

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

5 Million sales is weak for a franchise that is as well known as final fantasy. I think modern Warfare 2 sold more than that in the first 4 or 5 days.

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We might as well compare XI to WoW then, those numbers are from a year ago and I wouldn't doubt they are higher, but thats beside the point. 5 million units is a respectable number no matter how you try and spin it. Most final Fantasy titles usually sell around 5-7 million units in there first year of sales so it's no market flop.

Just because something doesn't sell like CoD doesn't mean it is a unprofitable game.

Jynx, im not saying to get players back right now.
I'm saying that the game is designed to fail in the long run because SE isn't taking care of problems now.
Botters, Inflation, and a poor reputation are all long-term problems that can't be fixed in any way over night.

If SE would be more honest with its current customer base and make some changes like fixing LS's in game and the downloader there would be a lot more happy players.

I never said anywhere they should launch a campaign right now or advertise. I just pointed out many ways in which they are alienating their playerbase. And that has Long-Term consequences.

This isn't a single player game. Most people who play or get MMOs read up on them first because of the monthly cost and time involved. Starting an MMO is like an investment, and right now FFXIV is set up to look like defaulted mortgage loans rather than apple stocks.

http://www.square-enix.com/na/careers/#ma08

product manager - Marketing

apply for it :D

Their work is kinda slow. I know that dev. requires time I myself created a game. But overall I am not too satisfied with the game at the moment. I expected to see more since January. Now things like Ifrit battle, Beast tribes, battle improvement, chocobos > this all seems very interesting. I am wondering if we can see all this summer.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

I'm saying that the game is designed to fail in the long run because SE isn't taking care of problems now.
Botters, Inflation, and a poor reputation are all long-term problems that can't be fixed in any way over night.

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Character wipes for PS3 release!!

<runs away>

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Originally Posted by Leeloo

Character wipes for PS3 release!!

<runs away>

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Yes! Since this is extended beta anyways!

This would also solve all the market problems, as well as the bots hoarded Gil/Items.

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Originally Posted by Azurymber

Jynx, im not saying to get players back right now.
I'm saying that the game is designed to fail in the long run because SE isn't taking care of problems now.
Botters, Inflation, and a poor reputation are all long-term problems that can't be fixed in any way over night.

If SE would be more honest with its current customer base and make some changes like fixing LS's in game and the downloader there would be a lot more happy players.

I never said anywhere they should launch a campaign right now or advertise. I just pointed out many ways in which they are alienating their playerbase. And that has Long-Term consequences.

This isn't a single player game. Most people who play or get MMOs read up on them first because of the monthly cost and time involved. Starting an MMO is like an investment, and right now FFXIV is set up to look like defaulted mortgage loans rather than apple stocks.

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You seem to be saying that SE is being dishonest with the players, I don't see where that comes from at all. I also allready pointed out that any goodwill towards current players are something that is and will remain a low priority for them. Making the game functional comes before comunity features for a game with a very small comunity.

Yeah sure players read up on MMO's before buying, but they don't usually read up about the past especially when SE will be trumpeting there triumphs over the previous itteration of the game that scored so low. There star power will far outshine a small group of hardcore fans who are dissapointed with how they were treated during the first year of the games life. While burning it's hardcore fans is not ideal, it's what they are doing to focus on getting the game some legs before they try running anywhere with it.

Main mechanics first, community second.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I guess XIII selling over 5 million copies was a mere fluke for a game that received a rather luke warm reception from critics and the Final Fantasy series selling near 100million units as a whole is just some form of terrible PR and marketing. Just because it's not blaring on TV like a Halo add doesn't mean they don't know how to get the word out.

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I hate XIII but Metacritic disagrees with us, Jynx. Mind blowing, I know.
(83 out of 100) ^^

So not a good example.

There seem to be alot of SIMPLE things they could be doing, clean up the UI/Linkshell management/etc, but its been what 8 months. Many things i see that would take one coder a day or two to fix have gone untoutched, instead we get shitty run around quests with equaly shitty rewards, an updater that doesnt work through firewalls and needs to download 300mb for "targetmode c".

How much longer do you realy have SE? wake up.