Absence of end-game content : the downfall of every MMO.

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Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath

I totally agree with you. The 2.1 stuff seems like it was suppose to be launch stuff but just got held back because of issues or not enough testing. I don't care so much about endgame content, just content in general. What is there to do in FFXIV besides leve something up? I just want to play and enjoy it, not do the same thing with anything you do in the game. All people say is level a craft or another class/job. I want to enjoy something on here that isn't leveling. Something just fun to do would be great other than exp grind.

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Getting your DL/AF2 gear? Helping members of your FC? Craft? Do Coil?

1. A lot of players have not finished the content that is available now, myself (15 year MMO player) and my girlfriend included.

2. All MMO's. successful or not, go through waves of increasing and decreasing populations. Players finish the current content, then move to other games (not even just MMO's) for a while, then come back for expansion packs. It's been this way since Everquest.

3. Every MMO will have a bunch of posts about how the game is 'doomed' because of lack of content. The majority of the time these posts are wrong.

I don't know if this game is 'doomed' or not, but we won't know until we see how the population responds to the first few content expansions. Believe it or not, I clearly remember the 'doomed because of end game content' posts that constantly appeared in the World of Warcraft forums shortly after Vanilla's release.

I've been hearing increasing groans from my FC as of late. People are playing other games, others are not satisfied, and most of them only show up for that couple hour coil session.

Bahamut's Coil is nowhere near as challenging as Square-Enix made it out to be, and the fact that CT is going to be easier is very detrimental. 1.0 CC/AV/Garuda/Ifrit Extreme/Darnus are ALL harder than Bahamut's Coil 1-4. What are end game FCs supposed to do for months on end? It does not take long to level up classes. Certain ones can be done in a single day.

It is a new game, but Square-Enix should have anticipated that old players would be doing nothing for quite some time.

How long before I find a new FC because they've all quit?

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Originally Posted by Mega_Man_U

Getting your DL/AF2 gear? Helping members of your FC? Craft? Do Coil?

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Sorry, nope. I have no free company (by choice), and i don't care about the epeen of getting the best gear possible. So no, i don't care about AF2 or Darklight. I play games to have fun, and grinding the SAME 2 dungeons for 2+ months just isn't fun to me. Coil is endgame and so i don't care about doing it. As i said, i don't care about endgame content, i just want content. Stuff to do besides level grinding since that seems to be the only thing to do in this game currently. Or farm the same two dungeons till 2.1 drops. I'd welcome anything to do in FFXIV besides just exp grinding and repeating the same two dungeons. I don't care much for pvp but even that would be a great thing to change it up from exp grinds.

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Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath

Sorry, nope. I have no free company (by choice), and i don't care about the epeen of getting the best gear possible. So no, i don't care about AF2 or Darklight. I play games to have fun, and grinding the SAME 2 dungeons for 2+ months just isn't fun to me. Coil is endgame and so i don't care about doing it. As i said, i don't care about endgame content, i just want content.

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Thread Topic: Absence of end-game content : the downfall of every MMO.

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Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath

Sorry, nope. I have no free company (by choice), and i don't care about the epeen of getting the best gear possible. So no, i don't care about AF2 or Darklight. I play games to have fun, and grinding the SAME 2 dungeons for 2+ months just isn't fun to me. Coil is endgame and so i don't care about doing it. As i said, i don't care about endgame content, i just want content. Stuff to do besides level grinding since that seems to be the only thing to do in this game currently. Or farm the same two dungeons till 2.1 drops. I'd welcome anything to do in FFXIV besides just exp grinding and repeating the same two dungeons. I don't care much for pvp but even that would be a great thing to change it up from exp grinds.

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I'm not quiet sure what your looking for. There is more then enough stuff to do in this game but you seem to just not want to do any of it.

If dungeons are your interest, you can still run the lower level ones as the level sync feature in this game is actually quiet decent (could be better but still makes old content interesting).

It doesn't have to be just 2 dungeons, that all on you.

WoW had jack for endgame when it launched, FFXI had jack for endgame when it launched, every MMO does. MMOs grow and expand over time, and this one will be no different.

DeceptionsWrath, you're a bit of a hypocrite to complain about lack of endgame content but refuse to participate in the endgame content that currently exists because you "don't care about epeen."

You don't have to have an ego to play endgame content. Having Epeen or ego is about bragging about what you have and rubbing it in people's faces. Not about simply doing content and getting loot. You don't have to have a giant epeen to be in an FC, or run coil, or titan, or whatever. You can have fun doing these things.

We have a major patch coming up in a little over a month with multiple new dungeons to run, PvP, harder versions of the primals, as well as non-battle content and technical improvements. Crystal Tower may be large group content, but it's large group meant for the duty finder- meaning, it's not super ultra hard and designed for people with "epeen" only.

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Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath

Sorry, nope. I have no free company (by choice), and i don't care about the epeen of getting the best gear possible. So no, i don't care about AF2 or Darklight. I play games to have fun, and grinding the SAME 2 dungeons for 2+ months just isn't fun to me. Coil is endgame and so i don't care about doing it. As i said, i don't care about endgame content, i just want content. Stuff to do besides level grinding since that seems to be the only thing to do in this game currently. Or farm the same two dungeons till 2.1 drops. I'd welcome anything to do in FFXIV besides just exp grinding and repeating the same two dungeons. I don't care much for pvp but even that would be a great thing to change it up from exp grinds.

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Then don't say "there's no endgame content" as an absolute statement. Say "there's a ton of content but I don't want to do it."

Can't wait to read these threads in EQ:N.

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Originally Posted by Aragor

Coil : 4 pretty short turns with a 5th broken one.

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Then explain to me how BlueGartr beat it? Sounds like you're group is too unskilled to pull it off therefore it MUST be broken. -_-

I thought the downfall of most MMO's was trying to cater to people who played 10+ hours a day.

I've reached "end game" two weeks ago, the only disappointng thing is how easy it is for some people to ruin the game for the rest.

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Originally Posted by Codek

I'm not quiet sure what your looking for. There is more then enough stuff to do in this game but you seem to just not want to do any of it.

If dungeons are your interest, you can still run the lower level ones as the level sync feature in this game is actually quiet decent (could be better but still makes old content interesting).

It doesn't have to be just 2 dungeons, that all on you.

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Isn't the point of dungeons exp? :rolleyes:

All of these threads can be summed up with this:

The game is 2 months old. Stop expecting 3 years worth of content at launch.

Just because you THINK other games had more to do, doesn't mean they actually did. Human's perceptions of things is not accurate at all, especially if they have some confirmation bias going on. If you dislike the game, just stop playing. Prove to SE that they have made a deficient game by cancelling your subscription. Don't just cry about how bad it is, SHOW THEM how bad you think it is. As long as you are giving them money, they assume you are OK with how the game is, since they can't read everyone's feedback.

The only reason I can think of for posting all these whine threads is to try and convince other players to think the game sucks as much as you think it sucks. Stop playing, stop giving them money, and your point will be heard, loud and clear.

I don't know why people act surprised or even not expect brand new released MMOs to lack content, they ALL do when 1st released. This is not new. you either stick it out and find other stuff to do or you do what every other fair weather fan does, quit untill next patch after you have over spammed the content till you cap gear.

MMOs are not really made for people who spend 14+ hours a day playing, of course you will run out of "stuff" to do. because you play to much.

The problem I keep seeing in these threads is people comparing XIV to when they started the MMOs they reference. Considering the language of this forum in particular, that's not really comparing like-aged MMOs. A popular comparison is XI, people touting how it had alot of content at launch compared to XIV. This is wholly untrue as XI didn't launch how people seem to think it did. It LAUNCHED in Japan on the PS2 with no expansions to speak of. It was RELEASED outside of Japan over a year later, months after the launch of it's first expansion Rise of the Zilart. We, right now, are in that period between the launch of XIV and the release of it's first expansion. Of course there's not alot of end game content, they didn't have alot of leeway to make it given how busy they were remaking the game Tanaka tried to force-feed us.

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Originally Posted by Mega_Man_U

Then don't say "there's no endgame content" as an absolute statement. Say "there's a ton of content but I don't want to do it."

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Ok, you have a quote. "there's no endgame content". Show me where i said that quote. I'll wait. :)

People that want everything right now. Buying a new cell phone every year because somehow the Iphone 5 is that much better than Iphone 4 (cause apple says so!) Having the accumulated knowledge of man at the tips of your fingers, everything just a google away, kids that get a new console every other year, all new games come out with DLC within weeks of releasing, F2P MMO's, disposable facebook games, its all the RIGHT FREAKING NOW generation, and THATS whats ruining games (and society). No one takes the time to enjoy anything anymore... and worst of all, instead of just unsubbing the OP feels the need to make the forums his twitter account and tell us every feels he has about life and this game. There is nothing to see here, move along.

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Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath

Ok, you have a quote. "there's no endgame content". Show me where i said that quote. I'll wait. :)

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Not endgame content but content in general:

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Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath

I play games to have fun, and grinding the SAME 2 dungeons for 2+ months just isn't fun to me. Coil is endgame and so i don't care about doing it. As i said, i don't care about endgame content, i just want content. Stuff to do besides level grinding since that seems to be the only thing to do in this game currently.

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Also, you're posting on a thread called "Absence of end-game content."

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Originally Posted by Mega_Man_U

Not endgame content but content in general:



Also, you're posting on a thread called "Absence of end-game content."

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And so are you, so what's your point? You said a quote from me that i didn't say. I commented on here for lack of content, not lack of endgame content.

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Originally Posted by Aragor

I understand what you mean and I'm not that hardcore neither was I expecting TONS of stuff to do. Still, compare this game to the gold standard : WoW.

Dungeons.
Farming AK or CM VS UBRD/LBRD, Scholo, Stratholme.

Raiding.
Coil : 4 pretty short turns with a 5th broken one.
MC : Over 10 bosses (with much more interesting mechanics let's be honest).

What came in the first serious content patch.
Crystal Tower : can't speak too fast from what we haven't experienced, but from what they've said, it's gonna be welfare gear for those who can't handle Coil.
BWL : how awesome was this place seriously?

My main point isn't really that RIGHT AWAY there wasn't a lot of stuff to do, but mainly that was is in the pipeline for further content patches is futile (housing, dailies) or isn't going to last more than a week (CT). I LOVED that game going from 1 to 50, I'm just disapointed the fun didn't last past that.

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I stopped reading at this. Not only because the WoW comparisons are making me throw up every
time I read them, but claiming Turn 5 is broken after it was just beaten legit a few days ago.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

WoW had jack for endgame when it launched.

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stopped reading there

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Originally Posted by wildgalax

stopped reading there

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Why? It was at least a true statement. Every game has jack for end game when it releases. Why do people forget this?

I think its ridiculous, i felt the end game content in wow launch was very satisfactory considering launch, dont feel ff14 even comapres.

And this is why no MMO has beaten that other game's sub rates to this date, almost a decade later: they don't even bother trying. There have been only a handful that came close but even they inevitably went f2p.

Hopefulley, the next generation of MMO devs seriously consider launching a game when it's ready rather than pushing it out asap due to pressures from the suits and stockholders.

You can come up with excuses like "no mmo has good end game content on launch!"

But I think to myself....why does it have to be this way? I for one am tired of that excuse, it's used far to often (every MMO now it seems) and there is no reason other than monetary ones why that cannot change.

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Originally Posted by wildgalax

I think its ridiculous, i felt the end game content in wow launch was very satisfactory considering launch, dont feel ff14 even comapres.

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GW2 too. WvW/sPvP had the pvpers hooked and legendaries/new pve content every month for the pvers.

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Originally Posted by Yurikitty

People that want everything right now. Buying a new cell phone every year because somehow the Iphone 5 is that much better than Iphone 4 (cause apple says so!) Having the accumulated knowledge of man at the tips of your fingers, everything just a google away, kids that get a new console every other year, all new games come out with DLC within weeks of releasing, F2P MMO's, disposable facebook games, its all the RIGHT FREAKING NOW generation, and THATS whats ruining games (and society). No one takes the time to enjoy anything anymore... and worst of all, instead of just unsubbing the OP feels the need to make the forums his twitter account and tell us every feels he has about life and this game. There is nothing to see here, move along.

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He's just exerting his right to be special, this is a free country and his opinion matters!

I love the internet! So much hatred thrown around the moment someone thinks otherwise than you do :P

As I said, the main issue isn't really what is currently available, but what is to come. I can't believe people are excusing the irrelevance of Crystal Tower by the fact it should have been here from launch. There is probably also the issue of the leveling phase was too short... In most other MMOs it takes more than a few days to a week to level a toon to max level for the first time so you start your end-game experience later on.

As for those saying WoW had nothing on release, you're still forgetting about the 4 dungeons I mentionned (all larger than AK/CM), Ony and the fact MC came on REALLY early (CT VS MC???). I do not see how WoW being almost 10 years older changes anything. If anything, it should be even more catastrophic for FF14 ARR to be this way since they should have learned from the past. It is true though that FF11 had nothing on release... but hey, they were in before WoW so you can't blame that one :P

P.S. Concerning turn 5 of Coil, it has been stated a large number of times during the past weeks and that devs were trying to fix it ASAP. I haven't looked for updates recently so I don't know if they did fix it.

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Originally Posted by sasakusaku

And this is why no MMO has beaten that other game's sub rates to this date, almost a decade later: they don't even bother trying. There have been only a handful that came close but even they inevitably went f2p.

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Obviously the size of the playerbase determines how good the game is, which is why every single game that has ever existed suck compares to Candy Crush Saga.

Also, McDonald really make the best food in the world, their sales number proves it!

/facepalm

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Originally Posted by wildgalax

I think its ridiculous, i felt the end game content in wow launch was very satisfactory considering launch, dont feel ff14 even comapres.

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WoW had Onyxia and Molten Core at launch. UBRS wasn't until months later. You had Scholo/Strat for "endgame" regular dungeons, and 2 raids. Not too different than FFXIV has now.

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Originally Posted by SIXTYONESIX

WoW had Onyxia and Molten Core at launch. UBRS wasn't until months later. You had Scholo/Strat for "endgame" regular dungeons, and 2 raids. Not too different than FFXIV has now.

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UBRS wasn't until you got the ring-key. Period.
I can't believe you're comparing MC/Ony to Coil/Primals. Coil is like half of MC at best and the Primals aren't worth doing once you've beaten them down once because what they drop is worthless compared to too easy to get Relic.

Go fishing and shut up.

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Originally Posted by Nica

Obviously the size of the playerbase determines how good the game is, which is why every single game that has ever existed suck compares to Candy Crush Saga.

Also, McDonald really make the best food in the world, their sales number proves it!

/facepalm

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You cannot be seriously comparing food to a game can you?

One is something you must do or DIE and the other is for entertainment.

/facepalm

Enough with the terrible anologies, thanks!!

Let's get to the point, there is a reason why that other game got so big and still has at least 6x the subs than here (or any MMO) and one of them is not the lack of end game content; even at LAUNCH.

More people that think vanilla WoW had "more content" in a good way. Being delayed by key quests, having to gear for resists, and oceans of trash mobs apparently = awesome endgame to these people. Sounds to me more like heavy time sinks and gated content that mmo developers couldn't get away with nowadays without having someone cry about it and compare it to a korean grinder, or call it archaic. The mmo playerbase made their own beds, and now they don't want to sleep in em.

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Originally Posted by Aragor

UBRS wasn't until you got the ring-key. Period.
I can't believe you're comparing MC/Ony to Coil/Primals. Coil is like half of MC at best and the Primals aren't worth doing once you've beaten them down once because what they drop is worthless compared to too easy to get Relic.

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Looooool. Molten core was all trash. There is like 5 minutes of trash in coil. How can you complain about that? Do you really want to go back to the days of hours upon hours of clearing trash? Pacing mechanisms are not content. They give the illusion of content and we're passed that in 2013.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

Looooool. Molten core was all trash. There is like 5 minutes of trash in coil. How can you complain about that? Do you really want to go back to the days of hours upon hours of clearing trash? Pacing mechanisms are not content. They give the illusion of content and we're passed that in 2013.

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I would have to disagree with that. Good pacing allows for players to have fun until new things are available. I believe the myth token system should have had a higher number of tokens required for things and no cap. The amount given out and the amount spent could have been based on the average amount of time to get everything. Sure some people would have paused their myth armor climb as new things come out.

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Originally Posted by Aleksandr

I would have to disagree with that. Good pacing allows for players to have fun until new things are available. I believe the myth token system should have had a higher number of tokens required for things and no cap. The amount given out and the amount spent could have been based on the average amount of time to get everything. Sure some people would have paused their myth armor climb as new things come out.

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This. I would gear out my Bard and then level up a Summoner next but the block to myth makes me not bother since it's going to take months for my WHM main anyway.

But ARR is just new and released nevermind the previous version being up for 2 years and having more content by the end that could have been relatively easily ported to the new engine that's missing and didn't get in but hey we got minions and mounts instead. But MMOs are just in their infancy right, nevermind games from 10+ years ago having more endgame and people expecting more quality and content from modern MMOs no matter how rocky their development was.

B-b-but entitlement! B-b-but my blind love for everything Final Fantasy!

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Originally Posted by TrickedOutHoro

That's the price you have to pay when you get into an MMO in it's earliest stages.

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I gotta admit, this is so true. I'm never jumping into a newly released mmo ever again. I'll wait for at least two patches to be introduced, and maybe then I'll jump in. I was desperate to play an mmo from the start so I can enjoy all the content, cause in the past I was overwhelmed with the overflow of content that an mmo with at least two expansions released had, I had no way of doing everything, and the old stuff was already outdated. There's a bad vibe in jumping too late in an mmo, but there's also one for jumping in too early. One or two patches later should be enough.

Imma just drop this here http://telarapedia.gamepedia.com/Dungeon emphasizing the "Retail Launch" section.

People need to quit defending the end game yes it is bad and stop saying it isn't.
Stop making new threads about it you're not a snowflake.