Wanderer's Palace Discrimation

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

I have done tons of speed runs, many with the pld/whm/blm and brd. 10 to 11 mins or so. However its still fast replacing the bard. Monks and Dragoons do well, and yes it may take a few mins more, its still better than whats out there. We had wp down in 15 min with a monk yes 5 min to the optimal but lets face it you wont get optimal time all of the time. We just run with whoever is aval. Just dont hang out with those who like to discriminate.

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But if you only have love for your own race, then you only leave space to discriminate- and to discriminate only generates hate, and when you hate then you're bound to get irate.

cool stash.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Discrimination would be if you weren't an ideal class, nor could you ever change classes to become that class (RE: WoW)
Same applies to pld, whm or blm. Roughly half the class options available to pursue freely once your initial class is lv 10+.

You may think you are being discriminated, but what you really are is lacking the initiative to adjust to change.
ANYONE can fit one of those 4 roles, given the personal drive to do so.

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So you are saying I am obligated to become one of those classes because the class I like it's not comparable to this ones? Kinda hard to argue with that, but I thought the classes were made for you to choose the one you like and play with it, not to choose the best one even if you don't like it just to make the content faster and better because your original class can't (what everyone is doing with BRD right now). That means there is no balance between classes, and I suppose this isn't what SE wants. Switching classes was made to complement your original class with other skills and to try other classes and if you like them play with them too, not to be obligated to change because your original class sucks.

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Originally Posted by Lucipurr

Any Monks here also facing discrimination for this? This may apply to SMN / DRG and for AK too. Its always "LF BARD/BLM DPS" in shout, fc, or LS. It takes me hours to find a party but even that, I'm constantly getting kicked in WP after 1 run. My average runs are 25 minutes and even my fc's officers kicked me bc the runs are supposed to take 10 minutes. I'm using the 50 and 130 potency aoes but seems like it's not enough apparently.

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To each their own...but I sure as heck wouldn't be sticking around an FC that was full of dousches who were kicking other FC members cause they were not leet enough to run with in a dungeon...sounds like a bunch of classless dorks to me.

I don't see how a well geared mnk would slow down a WP speedrun. They have a pretty solid AoE rotation just most don't even know about it sadly why they are discriminated against. I've seen Brds that would tab-tar Windbites and BLMs that would just spam Blizzard II so if you're a MNK run with you FC. Mnks and Drgs have an AoE rotation for a reason just learn it and be ready to spam the crap out of it

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Originally Posted by Gepeto

I don't see how a well geared mnk would slow down a WP speedrun. They have a pretty solid AoE rotation just most don't even know about it sadly why they are discriminated against. I've seen Brds that would tab-tar Windbites and BLMs that would just spam Blizzard II so if you're a MNK run with you FC. Mnks and Drgs have an AoE rotation for a reason just learn it and be ready to spam the crap out of it

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TP is a pretty huge issue while speed running on mnk personally, really only on the clear to the first boss though, the other 2 clears seem fine on tp use.

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Originally Posted by ZaelC

So you are saying I am obligated to become one of those classes because the class I like it's not comparable to this ones? Kinda hard to argue with that, but I thought the classes were made for you to choose the one you like and play with it, not to choose the best one even if you don't like it just to make the content faster and better because your original class can't (what everyone is doing with BRD right now). That means there is no balance between classes, and I suppose this isn't what SE wants. Switching classes was made to complement your original class with other skills and to try other classes and if you like them play with them too, not to be obligated to change because your original class sucks.

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If a party splits because the last attempts were too slow, whose fault is that?

People want a group that will go several runs because its efficient.

If you want to do otherwise, be the one recruiting. or be fantastic in the dps class you claim is discriminated against.

I say claim, because I've seen some pretty fantastic monks and dragoons. This is extremely rare, however, as the lazy ones are everywhere. Being a brd fortunately has added utilities which make up a fair amount for being lazy, while the others do not.

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Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

10 minutes is BS...no one is doing that...I don't care if they are all super geared or not.

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I know people who doing it in 11m and i done it less then 15m so yes you could do it if your super geared. So sadly if it take you more then 15m to do a WP run then a lot of people just going to end up kicking the players who are not geared or the job that just don't have the fire power to do the new speed run for it.

Arm of the Destroyer just needs to do more damage. Twin Snakes should be a cleave.

Why no love for dragoons? =P

Frankly bard is awful too because of TP use.

They just really, really need to redesign TP.

BRDs bringing AoE is just a bonus - people bring BRDs to 10min clear groups more because they can MP song the PLD and WHM while you're gathering mobs (+ they can Shadowbind the two mobs before the Flan boss so they despawn). The BLM and WHM are going to be the ones doing the majority of your group's AoE dmg, not the BRD.

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Originally Posted by Deculture

BRDs bringing AoE is just a bonus - people bring BRDs to 10min clear groups more because they can MP song the PLD and WHM while you're gathering mobs (+ they can Shadowbind the two mobs before the Flan boss so they despawn). The BLM and WHM are going to be the ones doing the majority of your group's AoE dmg, not the BRD.

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I know but standing there doing nothing but playing a song is boring >.>

Also still think 2 BLM is better.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Also still think 2 BLM is better.

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BRD boosts BLM + WHM AoE while providing AoE itself.

how geared do you have to be to do one of these runs? like whole group of relic +1s or a mix a DL/AK gear and primal weps with 1-2 relics int he group could do it? even like a 25 min run?

I hear you... The common trend in ARR is Speed Run because these people want w/e ways to get their tomes quickly and painlessly as possible. To be honest, I myself prefer SR in CM and PR... but for AK or WP, I don't mind the extra time spent because of added mythology tomes. What frustrates me more is the fact that people shouting "DL and relic only" for CM and PR.

Monk is awesome job IMO and monk can dish out tons of dmg including good balance of aoe skills... Those people that kicked you out are elitists and lazy bums. Keep at it! Monk is awesome!

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Originally Posted by Lucipurr

Any Monks here also facing discrimination for this? This may apply to SMN / DRG and for AK too. Its always "LF BARD/BLM DPS" in shout, fc, or LS. It takes me hours to find a party but even that, I'm constantly getting kicked in WP after 1 run. My average runs are 25 minutes and even my fc's officers kicked me bc the runs are supposed to take 10 minutes. I'm using the 50 and 130 potency aoes but seems like it's not enough apparently.

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QQ QQ and QQ some more...just make your own group and run it instead of relying on others to make groups for u. /thread

P.S. Get a new FC they suck if they are booting you because it take and extra 10 min for a run.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

I know but standing there doing nothing but playing a song is boring >.>

Also still think 2 BLM is better.

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The PLD needs Mage's Ballad in between pulls as much as the healer does. Also, Rain of Death is incredibly useful for the 2nd and 5th pulls. BRD is pretty much required for consistent 9 and 10 minute runs in my experience.

http://i.imgur.com/RjIhcRm.jpg I think BRD/DRG can 9 minute. This run wasn't very optimized and it was only 20 seconds off (just did it for fun to help a friend cap).

I just que for it, but ya, the second boss is alot easier with someone that can do easy aoe vs me who's mainly single target dps. monk. one melee one blm is a nice mix for the big globby second boss's add's. some aoe is pretty much needed for it, or it's a pain in the butt. but ya, just run ak.. it's more myth and it's more fun.

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Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

10 minutes is BS...no one is doing that...I don't care if they are all super geared or not.

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http://gae.cavelis.net/view/AC819B4E...F7080F1F4083E6

Can do it in 8 min.

for ppl who reject monks , i made with a good team ( pld + blm + whm + me (monk)) 14 - 15 min runs , i have a lot of crit and SS due to my hq 70 gear ....u need to have a good aoe cycle and a good tp management to do that .

thanks to blm lb and good tank + healer + mantra ; it's kinda doable ^^. dunno if i can make it faster with pro players.

and to avoid discrimination i make my own groups :D

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Originally Posted by Reyki

for ppl who reject monks , i made with a good team ( pld + blm + whm + me (monk)) 14 - 15 min runs , i have a lot of crit and SS due to my hq 70 gear ....u need to have a good aoe cycle and a good tp management to do that .

thanks to blm lb and good tank + healer + mantra ; it's kinda doable ^^. dunno if i can make it faster with pro players.

and to avoid discrimination i make my own groups :D

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You just go carried by the WHM/BLM.

I have run 16-17 minute WPs, and that is with everything going perfectly, no wipes, and the second boss barely spawning his second set of adds

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Originally Posted by Sosuke

how geared do you have to be to do one of these runs? like whole group of relic +1s or a mix a DL/AK gear and primal weps with 1-2 relics int he group could do it? even like a 25 min run?

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8 minute runs are pretty much full relic +1 with mostly allagan/myth gear. 15 minutes can be done with relic and full DL (or equivalent). 25 minute runs involve showing up in w/e and pushing buttons.

I just don't understand the need to get the weekly ToM cap in under 2 hours...

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I just don't understand the need to get the weekly ToM cap in under 2 hours...

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Money farming, for one thing.

I see the need for speed but this is about as trivial as complaining that say, mining makes more money than botany.

You literally are not barred from ANY of the game's content except this tiny sliver of current FOTM speed runs that really don't impact you in any way.

I will say though that AoE balance should be looked at a bit, as well as resource (tp vs mp) balance.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I just don't understand the need to get the weekly ToM cap in under 2 hours...

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I don't understand people who wouldn't want to get something done quickly if they have the option to.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

I don't understand people who wouldn't want to get something done quickly if they have the option to.

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I do, it's called relaxing and enjoying the game and the people you're playing with. That's the whole point of MMOs. To have fun playing a game with other people. If I didn't want that I wouldn't be playing an MMO, I'd be playing a single player game like Skyrim or Baulder's Gate.

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Originally Posted by GameGeeks

I do, it's called relaxing and enjoying the game and the people you're playing with. That's the whole point of MMOs. To have fun playing a game with other people. If I didn't want that I wouldn't be playing an MMO, I'd be playing a single player game like Skyrim or Baulder's Gate.

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But tome farming is not fun. If you've played seriously, it's an instance you've done 200+ times by now, and you just want to get it over with so you can go do the actually fun content (Coil).

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Originally Posted by Bluewhite

http://gae.cavelis.net/view/AC819B4E...F7080F1F4083E6

Can do it in 8 min.

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Not to be that guy, but 8:33 is not the world record as they say it is.

Understandable, though, without a website to archive the best runs. Hopefully someday... as speedrunning is quite an addicting distraction from Twistertania.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

But tome farming is not fun. If you've played seriously, it's an instance you've done 200+ times by now, and you just want to get it over with so you can go do the actually fun content (Coil).

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Only way you'd need to run it 200+ times is if you get DL for multiple classes. And at that point it' your choice to do that. Especially when you consider you only get enough Mythology Tomes a week to focus on one class for those. Some with Allagen gear from Coil. Otherwise you only need to run it about 70 times to get full DL plus the item needed for your relic. And I'm not sick of the dungeon since I have a lot of fun running it with my FC. Should be done with the last 24 runs I need sometime this week.

I did WP yesterday in 10 minutes using PLD, WHM, BLM, DRG. It's completely possible to do fast runs with a DRG. Their AOE is actually very good. Mana song is not required what so ever. Every time I get a BRD in my party for WP speed runs I tell them NOT to use Ballad because it cuts their damage by 20% and I never delay pulling the next group of mobs.

I can be back at 80% mana before pulling again and still hold aggro so I don't see BRD as a necessity. In fact, the fastest runs I've done have been 2x BLM hands down.

Sadly, it seems like MNK just gets screwed on WP speed runs. However, I wouldn't discredit DRG. The only group I've done it faster with than BLM/DRG is BLM/BLM.

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Originally Posted by Gangaloo

I did WP yesterday in 10 minutes using PLD, WHM, BLM, DRG. It's completely possible to do fast runs with a DRG. Their AOE is actually very good. Mana song is not required what so ever. Every time I get a BRD in my party for WP speed runs I tell them NOT to use Ballad because it cuts their damage by 20% and I never delay pulling the next group of mobs.

I can be back at 80% mana before pulling again and still hold aggro so I don't see BRD as a necessity. In fact, the fastest runs I've done have been 2x BLM hands down.

Sadly, it seems like MNK just gets screwed on WP speed runs. However, I wouldn't discredit DRG. The only group I've done it faster with than BLM/DRG is BLM/BLM.

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Ballad is 20% for you, 80% for your WHM for Holy's. The BRD should be using FR during fights, anyway. BRD/BLM is the only group capable of breaking 8:30 due to Ballad and Swiftsong.

On the topic of DRGs, though, DRG/BRD is competitive with DRG/BLM. BLM has the sleep advantage whereas BRD has the Holy advantage.

While I find the shouts for dungeon runs demanding DL+Relic kinda funny, because people run these dungeons to GET said gear, it's up to personal preference and I'm fine with people shouting for speedruns.

But if people join dungeons with duty finder and then leave the group because "blm only 2800hp, cya" or because one of the classes isn't FOTM, I get furious.

Most people are using an exploit where you pull a huge mop pile, stun them, then run and initiate a boss fight. After the timer finishes for boss lockout the mob pile resets. Can easily do Wp in 10-15 minutes with high dps team.

Who cares, you can just DF it. I havent been in one df group that has failed since the patch.

Unless Ballad gives WHM a massive damage boost I don't see it. I don't have probs with aggro without Ballad so it literally does nothing for me. As I said I've done BLM/BLM and that's been the fastest for me at sub 10 minutes.

It's much better to have the BRD run Foe Requiem.

Jus make it where if the tank is tanking more than 5 mobs he takes increased damage or something. I'm hesitant to hit end game since I'm not one of the lolfotm classes

I'm not sure many people know what BRD + BLM is capable of. Here's a tip for those who don't know.

MP song allows a BLM to get just enough MP after a Flare to allow them a Blizzard III, then right into a Fire III to get 3 stacks of Astral then immediately Flare gets "fast casted" because the increased spell speed from Umbral 3 lags a bit after the Fire III cast. This method is also very effective in Coil turn 4.

TLDR: BRD allows BLM to spam Flare every 4-5 seconds.

Added bonus: Some pulls in WP can be AoE slept by a BLM, kill just the guy that drops the oil, then run to the boss and lock out the group.

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Originally Posted by Gangaloo

Unless Ballad gives WHM a massive damage boost I don't see it. I don't have probs with aggro without Ballad so it literally does nothing for me. As I said I've done BLM/BLM and that's been the fastest for me at sub 10 minutes.

It's much better to have the BRD run Foe Requiem.

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I feel like you didn't even read my post. I'm missing the part where the BRD can't play both songs. I also feel (read: know) that you are underestimating Holy. In sub 9 minute runs, Holy parses as the highest damage on trash. Having a MP battery between pulls for your highest source of trash damage is a good thing to have.

Not trying to add to the job discrimination, of course, but just setting facts straight.

Greetings,

Though this will not really address the core discussion in this thread (apologies for deviating the topic slightly), I've been noticing here and in other locations that players are calling the use of the boss rooms to lock monsters out an exploit. Just to clarify, the development team is of course aware from a specification standpoint about the strategies for Wanderer’s Palace (and other places) that involve using boss rooms to lock out regular monsters, and they have no specific plans to address this currently. In the future there is the possibility that this changes; however, we’ll be keeping it the way it currently is for now.

Please understand that using this strategy is not in any violation of rules and you will not be subject to penalties for playing this way.