For people who want to Nerf FATES

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

People in my LS who have all jobs capped at 50 seem to have a different take on things than you. Weren't there a bunch of broken mechanics in place that could be abused to assist with levelling?

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Yes and no. Some people did the power leveling thing which could almost be considered an exploit. But there was also leve linking and just old fashioned exp pts on higher level enemies, both ways were sufficiently quick for leveling without being practically broken they are so fast/easy like Fates are. Unfortunately there aren't enemies over level 50 anymore. But my point is that even without Fates leveling is stupid quick the way the game is set up now.

I had to bring Arcanist to 50.

I never want to level a job again because of Fates its flipping terrible

I do not look forward to jobs being released in the future

Edit: I enjoy level'ing a craft/gathering class more then DoW/DoM class and I absolutely hate crafting/gathering

This is a bad 180

I'm with you. I’m in no rush to do end game. I’m doing the simultaneous leveling approach. Frankly I’m tired of dungeons. I was one of those FFXI freaks who wished for solo gameplay. Did the end game raiding there and WoW. Dungeon grinding for gear to prep for endgame used to be my motivation. Now, I just like to plan my gaming hours as a solo casual player doing FATEs and crafting. Hell, when I get my Bard to 50, I’ll probably just level my crafting until I get tired of it. Then maybe I’ll have the drive to go back to dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

People in my LS who have all jobs capped at 50 seem to have a different take on things than you. Weren't there a bunch of broken mechanics in place that could be abused to assist with levelling?

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Yeah, in 1.0 there was powerleveling. You could just stand there for a few hours in Natalan and be auto-leveled to 50.

Fates need a player limit. Be a semi instance event where a max of maybe 24 players can join difficulty could varry on amount of players. Make guildhests and leaves more rewarding, add a few solo hests to break up the uniformity. Add a few group leves to give them diversity. Make the stories interesting. Am I the only player who actually reads the stories the fates provide? Fates should be 1 way of leveling, not THE way of leveling.

It's built into the game and to some point the center point for leveling and leveling. Fates should not be nurfed. The game allows you to gain levels many ways but yes Fates make it a tad more easier. There are dungeons, questing, and your basic killin grinding. Don't complain about an aspect of the game in which makes it easier to level THAT WAS BUILT INTO THE GAME! Who cares how they level as long as they did the leve long through legal means. If you don't like people who do fates then don't group with half the population of the game.

As the population of the game grows it is beginning to feel more and more like Guild Wars 2. Constant open world zergs with 0 strat or skill attached.. Fates would be fun if they weren't over run by people constantly and functioned as intended. That is not the case and they will be changed. Also they reward a little too much XP at lower levels. Run tag run tag level repeat.

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Originally Posted by SolusekRo

It's built into the game and to some point the center point for leveling and leveling. Fates should not be nurfed. The game allows you to gain levels many ways but yes Fates make it a tad more easier. There are dungeons, questing, and your basic killin grinding. Don't complain about an aspect of the game in which makes it easier to level THAT WAS BUILT INTO THE GAME! Who cares how they level as long as they did the leve long through legal means. If you don't like people who do fates then don't group with half the population of the game.

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Fates in their current state do not reflect what the designers had in mind. Increasing dungeon xp is the first step to thinning fate participants numbers to a more reasonable amount. They will still be there for you to grind away at and have fun with.. just not at the expense of other more flushed out mechanics, and not in groups large enough to conquer countries with.

What is the major issue people are having anyways? So what people reach 50 faster, who give a hoot anyways?

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Originally Posted by SolusekRo

What is the major issue people are having anyways? So what people reach 50 faster, who give a hoot anyways?

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For me it isnt so much the speed at that people are arriving to 50 even though its faster than most mmos right now and the last game was alot more slow going. its the fact that it is the main source for of leveling and I personally dont care for it. I understand there are other was but im not going to grind on dungeons if i receive 50% or more xppm even as a tank or healer. This takes away from all the other fun more strategic parts of the game from 1-50 since they are slow and noone does them. If there is a way for me to get to 50 faster im going to do it just as everyone else is so you have all the people leveling doing them and thats causing them to be over populated. it works i guess but imo the amount of people doing the fates at any one time kills what would be a fun experience for me and a lot of other people for that matter.

I feel you need to back up and look at who will be running the two leveling options to determine what solution will appease the most people, new players or levelers.

World:

• Mob XP increase, helps with dungeon XP and questing.
• Add once per class quests.

FATE Adjustments:

• Duty Finder: "Queue as Solo" while not in a dungeon.
• Duty Finder: "Queue for FATE" to auto-fill FATE slots.
• FATE participation calculated as per Limit Breaks.

Dungeon Adjustments:

• Double alt XP bonus in dungeons.
• Increase and split Allagan pieces
• Final bosses provided GC seals as FATEs.

Any of these would help with the key problem addressed with this issue by making all options attractive and supporting alternate classes and new players. The final solution could be any combination of these or something else that SE thinks up. And none of my suggestions are nerfs to anything.

OMG Anendreia! WHY WOULD PEOPLE DO THAT! WE LOVE TO QQ! When people have an issue with something its always NERF something, of course! It is never FIX something or make something else better. OMG such and such a class does way more DPS than my class - we must NERF NERF NERF. (please read the proceeding as sarcasm) I am actually completely with you on what to fix - just really tired of so many people saying nerf everything.

Forget "nerfing" fates.

How about instead we remove them from the game all together.

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Originally Posted by Anendreia

I feel you need to back up and look at who will be running the two leveling options to determine what solution will appease the most people, new players or levelers.

World:

• Mob XP increase, helps with dungeon XP and questing.
• Add once per class quests.

FATE Adjustments:

• Duty Finder: "Queue as Solo" while not in a dungeon.
• Duty Finder: "Queue for FATE" to auto-fill FATE slots.
• FATE participation calculated as per Limit Breaks.

Dungeon Adjustments:

• Double alt XP bonus in dungeons.
• Increase and split Allagan pieces
• Final bosses provided GC seals as FATEs.

Any of these would help with the key problem addressed with this issue by making all options attractive and supporting alternate classes and new players. The final solution could be any combination of these or something else that SE thinks up. And none of my suggestions are nerfs to anything.

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FATEs, to fix them they need to make it harder to get maxium rewards. There will never be a point to doing dungeons, even after the xp boosts and things, if you can get 20k exp in 30 seconds from a FATE. If you can walk into a fate, cast one Aero and get gold.

FATEs need to have the calculation for bronze, silver, and gold redone in the amount of participation you personally do, AND it also needs to figure out not by how much enemity you get (so this way you can't have people just fun around and do flash and get gold), but by the amount of damage you do, amount of damage you take, and the amount of healing you do, but they also need to set it so that if you die, the highest you can get is bronze.

That change will start to make FATEs not the best way to level, because if there are too many people zerging them, then suddenly people can only get bronze, which means they start getting only 1 to 2k exp per FATE, instead of 20 to 50k per FATE.

I love how everyone QQs that people are so dumb that they dont know how to play their class. hmmm... i learned to play my scholar and bard very well on fates alone. know y? its perfect to experiment on. try this, throw in that, ditch that altogether... it was perfect for how i learn to play a class. if you really think of it, fates are dungeons just spread out. you have mobs, mini-bosses, and big bosses. yes you may not be actively tanking or healing said tank, but dd should always be doing their highest dd regardless, tanks should be focusing on dealing damage the same an off tank would, and healers should be focusing on dd same as an off healer would. now as for the main tank or healers their role is the EXACT same as in a dungeon. yes, you saw me correctly. the EXACT same. they have to hold aggro and keep the tank alive. isnt that the point of dungeons?
continued below... dam 1000 text >.<

Continued from above ^
There is one explanation that will ALWAYS explain why these people suck. they are idiots... thats it, plain and simple. stupid is as stupid does, if they do not take the time to try, then they will not be "good" in your eyes. Fates has ZERO to do with their ability to learn a class. try to look at all angles before you just bash a decent way to get exp. seriously, y does everyone have to hate on good things when they could ask for more on bad things. such a negative society we have today.

This is the funniest and most absurd argument I think I've seen all day.

I want to know why everyone is in such a rush to hit level 50, slow down take in the view, do some side quests to learn more about the world. There is so much more then getting that next level, take the time to learn more about your class or job. I don't know about everyone else but I enjoy the dance (dodging aoe, or positional attacks) with monsters, it is more fun then beating on the brick wall that is the fate boss. This is supposed to be fun, not a race to the end or my 'sword' is bigger then yours.

Thats how YOU like to play. not how EVERYONE wants to play. some people are rushing to 50 simply to be with friends that have been here since the start, others want 50 so they can be more versatile for end-game where most of the content is and will be going. If YOU want your grind to 50 to be eventful thats fine, but FORCING others to play the way YOU want does ZERO to help the game. This argument is pointless and needs to just die. The bolded words are the ONLY reasons i have ever seen for people wanting to nerf fates. all about 1 person instead of thinking of others.

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Originally Posted by GeilLega

This is the funniest and most absurd argument I think I've seen all day.

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absurd sir? i lol at you. i have been applauded for my abilities with all my classes even tho i fate grinded 2 of the 3. you are arguing that stupid people do not exist and that fate grinding is the ONLY reason that people suck at their class. hm... i think we have Exhibit A right here... like i said, stupid is as stupid does, fates do not have ANY impact on how to play a class, its how YOU choose to play that class that makes you good or not. come back when you are ready to think before you blurt out some nonsense to make yourself feel better.

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Originally Posted by Anendreia

World:
[*]Mob XP increase

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You don't know how much I would love to be able to grind mobs to level.

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Originally Posted by Axlle10

whine whine I want FATEs to carry me

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The only people who are vehemently against lowering FATE exp and raising other forms of exp gain are the people who have everything to lose by the reduced FATE exp. If you want to grind FATEs after the reduction in EXP to them, you still can, and no one has asked for FATEs to be so bad that they aren't a viable option, people just want more options.

The reason people ask to lower FATE exp, instead of only raising others, is because people feel that it is simply too fast (for the amount of work required) to get your job up. If it's going to be so fast, why even have levels? Why not just start at max and then not waste development time on anything but 'end game' content if you're going to rush people to 'end game'? People leave due to lack of content, from leveling too fast.

Well, I've read some (not all the thread), but I would to give my 2 cents.

1/ I think the FATE system is just overfarmed in some areas whereas in other there are no one to farm them. Nearly everyone, at least on Cerberus, go to the same spot around the same level.
If you look closely, the pattern follows the achievement for the specific FATEs.
2/ FATE XP isn't wrong. It is the fastest way to get 50 but I think it comes to a price (skill, gear, knowledge of jobs mechanics). I wish there was some more things to do solo to level. I tried using battle-leve, I found it to be interesting but the time passed grinding on those, compared to dungeon XP or FATE grinding, was not worth it (plus the loss of leve).

Some solutions:
- Perhaps adding some new FATEs achievements to get people to find new FATEs in new areas? (trying to distribute the overfarming)
- Give the battleleve a way to get an XP boost instead of just Completion Time, Difficulty and Kill of Special Mob? A daily ranking perhaps to get a 200% boost like trading HQ for tradecraft leve (ranking based on day before)? (We could also have the same as before for guildhest).

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Originally Posted by SoupEmpress

The only people who are vehemently against lowering FATE exp and raising other forms of exp gain are the people who have everything to lose by the reduced FATE exp.

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Or, y'know. People who think FATE XP is fine and just think the other options are too crappy right now.

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people just want more options.

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You can provide more options though without attacking people who are happy with the current options provided to them.

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The reason people ask to lower FATE exp, instead of only raising others, is because people feel that it is simply too fast (for the amount of work required) to get your job up.

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Which seems a bit silly really for you to arbitrarily decree that "they're leveling too fast". If someone wants to power through to endgame (especially if they're on their third, fourth, fifth class?) why are you so desperate to try to stop them? It just seems a bit odd to be so intent on imposing your style of play on other people.

The only style of play I would ever impose on other people is "Grinding mobs to level is the best way we should all do it", but I know that is not for everyone so I don't. I'm not against people spending their entire time on FF14 leveling.

If you look at the last like, what, 6 MMORPGs to be released with this same model of rush people to endgame with super quick leveling and then not really have much endgame and people end up leaving, you'll see that every one of them can be considered a failure. They're all copying the experience of MMORPGs before them, instead of just using gameplay mechanics that they liked (ie. dungeons and raids (WoW), grinding mobs (FF11 or ragnarok online)). Which if you'll notice, that experience has really only had major success with WoW.

I just feel that once people get most of their jobs to 50, they'll say "Wait that was quick, and now I don't really have tons of stuff to do". If it takes less than 5 days to get 1 to max, its definitely too fast.

1000 character limit be damned! Just wanted to quickly add in this:

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Originally Posted by Sylari

Or, y'know. People who think FATE XP is fine and just think the other options are too crappy right now.

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Of course if you don't care at all and just want to see a bunch of "50" written on your profile you'll say "nope its fine".

If WHM Holy was doing 5000 damage per cast to every mob it hit, of course some WHM would say no no its fine just keep our damage and raise everyone elses! But anyone who looks at the bigger picture is going to say not only is it easier to lower your damage in-line with everyone elses, but if everything was that high then the game would be too easy.

Same thing, different situation.

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Originally Posted by SoupEmpress

-snipped-

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Here is the one thing i have to say to you. Why do you want me to level how you want so badly? go ahead, level your character how you want. i like being able to level my characters quickly and get to endgame. if i get bored, i talk in my fc or play other games occasionally. SE will win/lose any way they go. they know this, every mmo knows this, its just about finding what their customers want. And honestly everyone who thinks something is fine 99% of the time does not come on a forum and say so. on the other hand those who dislike something almost always come onto the forums or encourage others to do so and post about it. Unfortunatly developers usually only see this negative comments instead of the vast majority that actually like/love the way they did it.

Believe me Axlle10, if there were an MMORPG released in the last 7 years that wasn't "rush to the end game then have hardly any content" I'd be playing it instead. If there were options, people wouldn't be going on the forum to whine about it so much, they'd just find the game they like more. Sadly there isn't options and every MMORPG seems to want to be the exact same thing as the others before them.

The unfortunate part here is every one of them past WoW has failed. I'd just like to see SE not fail twice on the same MMORPG is all.

So based on your belief that a game shouldnt be rush to endgame or have an option for rushing to endgame, no one else should be allowed to have it? so your saying that SE should ditch a mechanic that say 33% (based on the 3 leveling mechanics, fates, dng, leves) of the population likes for no reason? So SE should piss off 1/3 of their population just because other people who dont like to level fast dont like that there is an option for those that do. SE clearly knows what they are doing. Everyone else seems to forget that this is a business just like walmart or your local coffee shop. Their goal is to give options to those that want it for what they want. They did so imo. Fates are incredibly boring but get you to 50 quickly. Dungeons gear you and give you decent exp for how long it takes to do them (minus DF time). And leves give those who are looking to solo level their classes. Now, adjusting should be done, but nerfing fates does not help your cause in any way, shape, or form.

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Originally Posted by Axlle10

So based on your belief that a game shouldnt be rush to endgame or have an option for rushing to endgame, no one else should be allowed to have it? so your saying that SE should ditch a mechanic that say 33% (based on the 3 leveling mechanics, fates, dng, leves) of the population likes for no reason?

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No, it is too late for them to truly fix anything, I just don't think people have any right to say "it's not fast enough make it faster" in an MMORPG which makes most of its money from subscriptions. Wherein you get rushed to max level and then run out of things to do and quit. Seems silly to me I guess, maybe others don't think that way.

I only say to nerf fates because I guess I imagine it like if you have $4, and give out 3 to fates, and split 1$ among the others (in terms of leveling speed), thats not even, raising all to 3 might be a bit extreme, so putting them all at 2 seems fine. Again just me, maybe others think in absolutes of best or worst.

Also to clarify, by:

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Believe me Axlle10, if there were an MMORPG released in the last 7 years that wasn't "rush to the end game then have hardly any content" I'd be playing it instead.

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I meant an MMORPG built from the ground up as an entire experience, not only endgame, which obviously FF14 cannot fix and become.

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Originally Posted by Tazytiggy

I want to know why everyone is in such a rush to hit level 50, slow down take in the view, do some side quests to learn more about the world. There is so much more then getting that next level, take the time to learn more about your class or job. I don't know about everyone else but I enjoy the dance (dodging aoe, or positional attacks) with monsters, it is more fun then beating on the brick wall that is the fate boss. This is supposed to be fun, not a race to the end or my 'sword' is bigger then yours.

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^This. A lot of these tired comments about 'there's nothing to do in the game, blah blah blah' have been mentioned by people who rushed ahead to 50/completed the storyline in a week after launch, simply to try and boast that they got there first. Despite what some people have said about 'the game really starts at 50', having misinterpreted an offhand comment made by Yoshi-P during the Beta, it's clear that doesn't mean 'rush to 50 and ignore everything else'. There is plenty to do in the game before that point (I mean, look at all these threads from people saying "Please explain the storyline, I skipped all the dialogue to get to 50 fast" or "how do you do such-and-such? I've been skipping through all the dialogue and story to get to end game" - the game wasn't designed to get to 50 fast, you're meant to play through the storyline bit by bit, learning as you go). It's not the destination that's important, but the journey. End game will still be there no matter how fast or slow you reach the end.

As for FATEs, I think I'm one of those they were meant for as I really enjoy being able to just come and go as I please, however, I'm not blind to their weaknesses - this ease of accessibility has naturally caused laziness in players who just FATE grind all the way to 50 without actually doing anything else (ala, the storyline, which is structured in such a way to unlock content as you go along and also teach you how to play your class/Job).

I actually left feedback during the Beta in regards to this as even then I saw it's potential problems and suggested perhaps making them more restrictive like Campaign in FFXI, where instead of getting into a FATE just by being there, you don't actually participate until you speak to a specific NPC at the FATE who then flags you for that FATE. Rewards and such would be handled as normal like FATEs are now though. But it's just an idea to make FATEs a little more interesting and perhaps give some stability to the system.

But FATEs do not force anyone to rush the game. those that do know full well that they will hit 50 a lot quicker and end up at endgame possibly not wanting to play anymore. Again, SE is not forcing anyone to do fates. People who do them know full well the consequences of rushing. For me, im not rushing to boast that i have all classes level 50. i want to level those classes because i want to be able to help out my FC and friends that are always needing a class that isnt ever on.

And to put an end to the whole "fates make you suck with that job" bs. What makes a person suck? its gotta be what is given to them right? cant ever be the person themselves right? of course not, people are never to blame for their choices that they make. -end sarcasm. I have said it many times. FATES DO NOT MAKE SOME1 SUCK. If they choose to not experiment with their skills then that is their own fault for being a noob. I on the other hand have learned my jobs just fine being able to experiment even more so than i could in dungeons. You dont have nearly as many restrictions as to what you can do when fate leveling vs dungeon grinding.

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Originally Posted by SoupEmpress

Of course if you don't care at all and just want to see a bunch of "50" written on your profile you'll say "nope its fine".

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Or if you're like me and like running dungeons and tried farming dungeons and found that while they're not the worst MMO dungeons ever they're still short of WoW-good, and if you're trying to run them across 8 classes they become eye-bleed boring, you'll say "nope its fine."

LOL "Wow-good" .........

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Originally Posted by Millimidget

Or if you're like me and like running dungeons and tried farming dungeons and found that while they're not the worst MMO dungeons ever they're still short of WoW-good, and if you're trying to run them across 8 classes they become eye-bleed boring, you'll say "nope its fine."

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WoW's dungeons weren't that good... Really as someone that would prefer to just spend my time in game deep in a dungeon whether leveling or gearing I don't think destroying fates needs to happen. Just give other avenues that can compete for the rate of xp gain. Raise the XP rate in dungeons, allow people to redo quests on alt classes, etc.

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Originally Posted by Millimidget

Or if you're like me and like running dungeons and tried farming dungeons and found that while they're not the worst MMO dungeons ever they're still short of WoW-good, and if you're trying to run them across 8 classes they become eye-bleed boring, you'll say "nope its fine."

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Actually I think running any scripted event (FATEs, dungeons) over and over is eye-bleed boring. I'd much rather just grind mobs the good old fashioned way :>

Why bump this terrible thread

and people are still using the "you rush through the game" argument, get out

Fate are boring mmk