Even SE staff hates Warriors...

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Originally Posted by Slatervonjager

Wrong you are.

Mitigation is the act of reducing, not eliminating. reducing the damage is mitigation. outright stopping damage, is not mitigating, it's prevention. If you're not taking any damage, then what is there to mitigate? Funny how you googled it, and still got it wrong.

And again, it's not easy for them to hit 5K. DL isn't hard to get, no, but it takes awhile to get decked out in complete DL. So no, it's not easy for them to hit 5K or greater.

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First off, no, you're wrong about mitigation and prevention. 100% mitigation is prevention, but that doesn't mean it's no longer mitigation. But why you resort to arguing semantics is beyond me anyway.

Point two, hitting 5k hp on a PLD is extremely easy. 3 DL Jewelry, 3 DL armor, and the rest AK will probably be well over 5k. Fully decked out is ~5500 HP outside of a group and ~5600 in a group, depending on your race.

Point three, WAR does not have (significantly) higher HP. They have 85 more HP base. Once in defiance a WAR will have 25% more HP. Once in shield oath, a PLD will have 25% more HP. Either way they will have the same EHP assuming both have the same gear. Unless you're talking about a PLD in sword oath then yeah, they will have less but they will also have more DPS.

I think it's funny that an AF1 Dragoon thinks he knows something about other classes though.

Most warriors feel like a huge mana sink for a healer unless the warrior is over gearing the content then it's not as bad. Are all the warriors gearing wrong? Are they using the wrong skills? Why is warrior armor paper? It feels like I am healing a mage with a huge hp pool tanking a boss.

If Yoshi says they are fine then all the warriors are just doing it wrong I guess. I mean, I need a little time so I can cure the dd who stands in plumes without the warrior tank dying if he doesn't get a cure every second.

I feel bad for warriors but when I see a warrior tank pop up in my duty finder I am disappointed. I don't rage quit or anything but I think to myself
"this is going to suck." and 9/10 times it does. Every once in awhile I get a warrior that isn't just annoying to keep alive but it means they are just way over geared.

Buff warriors or tell them how to play please. At least give them some hints.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

I think it's funny that an AF1 Dragoon thinks he knows something about other classes though.

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I think it's funny that someone that complains about someone using semantics, starts getting semantic himself. I also find it funny, that you contradict your self, in both parts.

1) Prevention is not mitigation. Lrn2english.
2) 6 pieces of DL, and gear taken from AK is not exactly easy. Is it hard? no, but grinding out for all of it doesn't make it easy.
3) Since when does shield oath give HP? oh wait, it doesn't, it grants damage mitigation(remember that word). It gives you "effective" HP, which isn't the same as actual HP, and can swing into either the positive or the negative in usefulness. Failure to understand the difference between actual HP and effective HP is a failure on your part.And if we want to get really semantic about it, the WAR's compliment of healing skills gives them effective HP as well, making them have, significantly higher HP then a PLD. Of course, this is in the hands of someone that knows how to use a WAR, not an idiot.
4) Leave your misconceptions about how gear effects a player's knowledge at the door, because that retarded type of notion only makes you look silly.

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Originally Posted by Niko_Kishiko

If Yoshi says they are fine then all the warriors are just doing it wrong I guess.

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WARs do need a few quality of life adjustments(unlike PLD who needs a completely different subclass), but nothing major, so yes, in a nutshell, they are fine. It is a problem that most WARs are doing it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Slatervonjager

4) Leave your misconceptions about how gear effects a player's knowledge at the door, because that retarded type of notion only makes you look silly.

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You don't have a) any endgame experience b) any experience playing a PLD, c) any experience playing a WAR and d) you are demonstrably wrong about your little EHP and mitigation rant.

You should stop embarassing yourself.

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Originally Posted by Slatervonjager

I think semantics is thing people use, an adjective, and also a verb because I don't actually know what semantics is.

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You don't "use semantics" or "be semantic" or "get semantic". You argue semantics. It is a field of study in Linguistics. To use your parlance "lrn2english".

Second of all it is always better to increase HP through effective HP instead of actual HP. An effective HP boost of 25% also equates to an effective healing boost of 25%. Sure Warrior gets a 25% actual HP Boost but the Wrath bonus only goes to 15%. All WAR gets for heal boosts is Convalescence and Mantra. Convalescence is borrowed from PLD and PLD's is better. Mantra is a pathetic 5% when subbed so it can't even outclass PLD Convalescence when combined with WARs own Convalescence.

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Originally Posted by Hachiko

You don't have a) any endgame experience b) any experience playing a PLD, c) any experience playing a WAR and d) you are demonstrably wrong about your little EHP and mitigation rant.

You should stop embarassing yourself.

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He could have another character for all we know.

I don't really agree with anything else he's saying, however. Whether it's 'perfect english' or not, every MMO I've played people referred to defensive cooldowns as damage mitigation. I don't understand why this is even an argument. FFXIV forums are not English 101 or Semantics.

Warriors are hyper squishy I find; they usually require non-stop heals unlike the other tanks. With PLDs, I can dps in dungeon runs but with a warrior I am forced to chain cast cure IIs on even the geared ones. :(

On the plus side, it seems warriors are superior when it comes to multi mob threat; if I cast non stop heals on pld, I can peel mobs easy but not so with a war.

As to PvP, we shall see. Warriors seem to do a lot more dmg than plds so perhaps it won't be that bad. I don't think anyone is going to survive a drg limit break like in that vid lol.

How is it a "healing problem" when healers are able to keep PLD up but not WAR? If it's easier to heal one kind of tank than another then it's a tanking design problem.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

The only problem with the warrior job are the ID-10-Ts who can't figure it out and are so absorbed in their own self-righteousness they feel it must be SE's issue.

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Oh you're right I'm sure it has nothing to do with Paladins having a 20% dr 40% dr and 10 second invuln cooldown compared to the crap Warriors get

Don't care about the semantics issue, or even the warrior/pld issue. I do care when someone automatically decides that it's a healing problem. The it doesn't happen to me ergo is invalid has to stop. Fine u are uber god of tanking. But clearly if someone says I heal pld fine and cannot heal warrior as well then there is a valid point to look at. Basically you're blaming the victim.

I'm more miffed that PvP looked like what I expected it to look like. Boring as shit.

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Originally Posted by MichuAmane

Don't care about the semantics issue, or even the warrior/pld issue. I do care when someone automatically decides that it's a healing problem. The it doesn't happen to me ergo is invalid has to stop. Fine u are uber god of tanking. But clearly if someone says I heal pld fine and cannot heal warrior as well then there is a valid point to look at. Basically you're blaming the victim.

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When devs say there is nothing wrong... /sigh
Thing is, we have healers on both sides of the fence saying 'oh wars are too hard to heal' 'wars are fine to heal'. Its not really victim-blaming imo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZr2coYAt4w

.... and cue PLD re-rolls.

basically, it's 2 PLD vs 2 WAR, 1 BRD, 1 DRG. and yep, 2 PLD took down the whole party, and the camera PLD isn't even playing well, lol. the best (or dis-heartening) part is when 2 WAR was on the PLD and they couldn't do squat to him. yeah, the 2 WARs were playing like shiet, but a 2v1... ;-/

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

And regarding the paladins, no because no one ever complains about Paladins being bad :P

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Um I've seen a lot bad pld cause its easy mode.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

Only 'baddy' tanks I've had have been plds, but that's beside the point, I main War 90% of the time.

Solution is to nerf pld ofc, since they're so OP, rather than buff a job that's fine as is.

I don't even see how you can see the difference between the two jobs when you're only 43, the only time the tank's job makes a big difference is Titan hm and Coil, even then Wars are fine if their healers are semi-competent...

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You, who clings to the Yoshi quote so much, what if I told you that the developer's testing area is a completely different context from what is in Live now? Different numbers, possible abilities that are being tested, gears, etc.

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

This was mentioned on 2ch by the Japanese players but in the video for the upcoming PVP (Wolf's Den) it shows a warrior getting his butt kicked by a dragoon while the Paladin team is prancing in victory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bei96BMUa9w
(Sorry I don't know how to embed the video in the forum)

I know there's a million threads by both NA and JP players asking for a tweak with Warrior but was there ever an answer in regards to this? Will there ever be an adjustment? I've seen people saying that parties refuse them because of them being a Warrior instead of a Paladin.

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Official statement, at least in an interview or at the TGS it, it was said by Yoshi-P that warrior are strong enough and that the dev team very much likes to play with him.
I know its harder to play than pld but it has more perks if played right.

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Originally Posted by Yagrush

You, who clings to the Yoshi quote so much, what if I told you that the developer's testing area is a completely different context from what is in Live now? Different numbers, possible abilities that are being tested, gears, etc.

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I'm sure. That doesn't mean their insight into it is worthless though, they're the ones who created it. I see you're a warrior as well. Don't take that crap you're reading on the forums about wars being worthless. We are a viable tank job.

Has anyone compared the damage output of a PLD (Shield Oath) vs WAR (Defiance) ?

It feels to me that WARs are certainly more challenging to play and less forgiving towards under-geared healers that couldn't burst heal but that is what makes WAR unique, if WAR possesses the damage mitigation of PLDs, no one would play a PLD as WAR would effectively have higher HP, superior crowd control and DPS

black mage lost to bard

OP OP OP


good logic

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Originally Posted by Amyas

I'm sure. That doesn't mean their insight into it is worthless though, they're the ones who created it. I see you're a warrior as well. Don't take that crap you're reading on the forums about wars being worthless. We are a viable tank job.

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I think it's wise to stay from both extremes. They aren't worthless nor bad tanks. They are damn good and they do have their merits, aswell as, arguably, higher skill cap. However, I wouldn't go so far as to say "They are fine, completely balanced, they don't need any buffs/help. They do need it. And the fact of the matter is, if Warriors aren't touched, no matter what the Devs say, the community will continue to filter out Warriors from their BC runs in favor for PLD because of them being the safer and easier choice. Warriors need work, that's all there is to it.

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Originally Posted by thinkmad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZr2coYAt4w

.... and cue PLD re-rolls.

basically, it's 2 PLD vs 2 WAR, 1 BRD, 1 DRG. and yep, 2 PLD took down the whole party, and the camera PLD isn't even playing well, lol. the best (or dis-heartening) part is when 2 WAR was on the PLD and they couldn't do squat to him. yeah, the 2 WARs were playing like shiet, but a 2v1... ;-/

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I'm just here wondering why one of the wars were spamming overpower.

Oh and the PLD is the best geared person there as far as I can tell.

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Originally Posted by calamityz

I'm just here wondering why one of the wars were spamming overpower.

Oh and the PLD is the best geared person there as far as I can tell.

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pause the video at 7:10, the PLD with AF(45/50) and Garuda sword had better dmg and more kills.

War has a role to play in coils. They are good for sub tanking and dispatching the Adds. Just from what I notice.

Wow look at that video where the Warrior get no love, he get poke from the behind with a stick from the Dragoon, the Archer put some arrow in his knee, while eating the Paladin Relic sword and the Warrior barely do any damage to the Paladin because the Scholar keep healing him, then the Warrior Turn around just to be Limit Break to death by the Dragoon. So funny when you watch the Video again.

Yeah, the Warrior get no love and Mercy from the staff.

One of the People i play with most in game is a Warrior, we do dungeons together but like many have said when i do pug without him, and get a paladin tank, its so much easier to heal, player skill might have alittle to do with it, but alot of warriors are so obsessed with there huge amount of HP and dont think they need to work on there own skill, i often get agro off my friend, and people say thats your fault, but i'm sorry if i did not heal him like i was he'd be dead.

I do believe alot of tanks like to push the blame on us healers, but i've seen really good tanks, and when u play with a bad one u just know straight away.

The only Flaw i see in Warrior is that we have no Mitigation Putting our stats into VIT gives us roughly 500 HP which is useful but healers cry cause we take too much damage we put our stats into STR yeah we do more damage and mitigate more but its only 25% instead of 23%, i was even contemplating going a DEX build until i read that it only gives 1% parry rate. PLD has better mitigation with the DEX/STR stat both affecting shield block and parry, i know Yoshi P says WAR is really powerful but with what we have atm i dont see it our HP pool is massive and a decent WHM can get a free cure II out of stoneskin but its really not enough. Once i get more AF2/Allagan im hoping to see a change WAR for life!!!

I play both. Pld is better for me due to 1 simple ability. Shield Bash. War's version don't cut it at all.

Not forgetting if you add Foresight from WAR, lol. 20%, 30%, 40% Dmg reduction.

And Having the ability to block more is great. AND the ability to pacify the mob

And.... no wait there is more then 1 simple ability....

Sorry guys I failed my Maths and sucks at counting :(

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Originally Posted by thinkmad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZr2coYAt4w

.... and cue PLD re-rolls.

basically, it's 2 PLD vs 2 WAR, 1 BRD, 1 DRG. and yep, 2 PLD took down the whole party, and the camera PLD isn't even playing well, lol. the best (or dis-heartening) part is when 2 WAR was on the PLD and they couldn't do squat to him. yeah, the 2 WARs were playing like shiet, but a 2v1... ;-/

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Anybody who ever played Tera knows that tank classes are naturally OP in PvP and need to be toned down.

In the case of Tera, Bluehole's genius solution to PvP balance was to continually buff Lancers and make them unkillable unless you found the dumbest one on Earth who couldn't figure out how to turn to face you and block. Meanwhile the Lancer would do his Leash or Giga-Leash on you and your buddies, keep you stunned with his Shield Bash, and if he was sufficiently geared he would just kill you in a single normal attack chain. If he wasn't, his Sorceror buddy would draw a circle underneath you while you stood there helpless and then a big mushroom cloud would appear and you would instantly die.

Another game where this was a problem was Aion. The only way you could kill a Templar was if he stood there and let you do it. People would go 4v1 and 5v1 on Templars, and the Templar would just pop his Invincibility skill (this sound familiar?) and laugh at everyone whaling on him. Eventually if he got bored he would put his wings out and fly away, if he didn't he could just wait until his attackers got bored and put their wings out to fly away instead because while the Templar couldn't kill any of them, they couldn't kill him either.

I'm a main White mage healer... and I like healing warriors more (for dungeons mostly)... More healers would stop complaining about warriors if they actually understood the class and stopped topping them off all the time. Let the self-heals/etc work... if you're healing 100% of their hp, 100% of the time.. it's your fault (for dungeons mostly, reiterated)

Understand what the buff's tanks have on them, and what their cooldowns do. If you're topping off a tank every time they use a proactive cooldown to help you out... why should they even bother using them.

Obviously this PvP promotional video also means Bard is underpowered too because it shows a Bard die. And apparently WHMs are underpowered healers, because it couldn't keep the WAR up. /sarcasm

Why is the FFXIV community the dumbest collective of fail on the internet?

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Originally Posted by CurlyBruce

Orly? So a level 2 Limit Break is somehow going to magically go through a move that makes you literally Invincible for 10 seconds? Please, tell me more.

To put it to further perspective a level 2 limit against bosses at level 50 does about 12k damage. Mobs don't have any natural mitigation so you can assume that WAR will take the same or slightly less damage depending on if defense is taken into account. A PLD can mitigate 20% of that just from being in Shield Oath. 20% more with Rampart, 40% more with Sentinel....

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This is a joke right? you do realize that no one would be stupid enough to use a LB on a pld with these abilities active right? Also, we dont even know if player skills even effect limit breaks at all. But yeah lets play it your way, sure if the PLD says "hold on while i use all my reduction skills.....okay GO" THEN maybe he has a chance, but we know that'll never happen

lol warrior

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Originally Posted by Hanabira

This is a joke right? you do realize that no one would be stupid enough to use a LB on a pld with these abilities active right? Also, we dont even know if player skills even effect limit breaks at all. But yeah lets play it your way, sure if the PLD says "hold on while i use all my reduction skills.....okay GO" THEN maybe he has a chance, but we know that'll never happen

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Lol lb has a charge up time. Not too hard to pop your buffs as soon as you see the animation start. In no way do you have to run around with your buffs already up

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Originally Posted by Slatervonjager

snip

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No they wouldn't. Invincibility straight up trumps damage. No ifs ands or buts.

PLD if played properly have the potential to outperform warriors in almost every capacity including aoe threat. Just because you've seen baddies doesn't mean plds are as a rule bad.

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Originally Posted by Slatervonjager

Yeah, you killed with this. You need to look up the word Mitigation. Preventing damage, is not mitigating the damage. Also, you're assuming that every DD is dumb enough to not ignore an invincibility skill.

Also, PLDs dont' easily get to 5k HP, WARs easily get to 5k and beyond. Not saying PLD doesn't get to 5k, cause they do, but it's not an easy feat for them to get it right now, especially when you compare it WAR.

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Its hard to get 5k hp as a pld? I have 5.6k solo, 5.8k in a party, and 6k with food. I'm in darklight, relic +1 shield no + on sword.

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Originally Posted by CurlyBruce

Actually all they said "months ago" was that there would be specific PvP moves and this was while in development. Now on the verge of release the only info they have given relating to PVP only skills is CC removal/immunity to prevent balance issues with people spamming Sleep/Tri-Disaster.

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You seem to be confused. Somehow you believe "new" info completely invalidates "old" info. There is no reason to believe they aren't additive. Glass is half full not half empty. Also we are at least a full month out from release. Hardly "on the verge" considering we just now saw a video for the first time.

Paladin fine as is.
Warrior fine as is.
Problem: people play Warrior like a Paladin, and as such superimpose restrictions on the WAR which should not be there. Even Yoshida said the same thing. That both WAR and PLD respectively are working as intended, and they can not nerf or boost a job based on people's bad playing method. I was looking at a parser, and a war in full ilvl 60 armor and garuda weapon was doing x1.5 the dmg of a relic/dl dps in the party. Because he optimized his rotation. It's hard to believe but you can in fact do coil and titan, in minimum requirement armor and still face roll. AS long as you optimize your job.

So the thread creator watched a scripted/produced video made by SE to showcase the pvp update, and somehow decided Warriors sucked based on this?

Dumbest thing I think I've ever read on this forum. Besides the fact, what coordinated pvp team has everyone fighting one on one in a 4v4 situation? Real group pvp players and guilds are laughing at you.

Having played a PLD to 50, getting my Relic weapon and shield, getting a few pieces of Darklight, some Hoplight from AK..

Then switching over to my level 19 warrior and tanking an instance..

The difference is.. at its core, night and friggen day.

The PLD is a complete and utter joke tank that I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy. It's NOTHING but stress and headaches.

"Oh look we have a WAR and a PLD for this boss... PLD is on shield bash... WAR gets to have fun.!" I LOVE standing there for 10 minutes hitting 1 button. It's awesome, YOU SHOULD TRY IT.

"Oh look we have a PLD for this AK run.. get ready for mobs running everywhere because the PLD cant hold aggro for shit." Flash more my hairy ass. Cure spells peel mobs, auto attacks peel mobs, farts in the wind peel mobs. The REASON PLD seems so great on healers is because half the time the mobs arent even HITTING the PLD.. they are running around raping the group while my Relic'd PLD cant even take the aggro back. Provoke is a completely and utterly worthless Power. Awareness is even worse. (Oh yay I can prevent criticals for 15 seconds... tell me when exactly a PLD is supposed to KNOW when to use this power exactly? This isnt GW2, mobs and bosses dont have visual/audio cues of Critical Hit attacks to counter. The crap isnt even on my hotbar and it never will be, anyone who takes the time to actually PRESS it in combat is an idiot PLD.)

WAR in a 4 man.. Overpower, Overpower.. combo away. NOTHING will take that aggro from you. No flashing required, no provoking, no running around going "omfg give me the damn aggro back!" Threat getting a little low? Overpower again.. do good damage to the mobs, hold aggro with zero effort. It's a JOKE. I dont care HOW much the healer cries about having to heal.. if your precious paladin could hold aggro worth a damn, he'd be getting smashed too.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

The only problem with the warrior job are the ID-10-Ts who can't figure it out and are so absorbed in their own self-righteousness they feel it must be SE's issue.

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Spoken like a true PLD with PVP just around the corner /smdh!