Petition to Make Game Less Like WOW and More Like FF11

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Originally Posted by LaralnKornera

Yoshi a chance to separate XIV: ARR from the other MMOs?

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I did. 2 years even. In fact, at one point late in 1.0 it was starting to shape up to be just that. But then 2.0 flipped the table by adding WoW features and progression style.

Still. I have yet to experience everything the game has to offer, and I'm awaiting the new patch with meager interest. But officially, I'm mellow about the whole ARR experience.

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Originally Posted by ufufu

Final Fantasy XI is a bad game and you should feel bad for liking it.

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Oh go soak your head.

/ Sign sign

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Originally Posted by Starlord

If you put FFXI Launch and FFXIV 2.0 Launch side by side, do you think FFXI had more content than FFXIV 2.0? ( I wasn't there for it's release sadly, but I like to know if XI Launch was better than XIV 2.0 Launch.

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kinda hard to compare the two when XIV had to be completely remade.

It's unique in its own right.

I'd rather it took nothing from XI and WoW. They're completely seperate and should stay that way.

However if they add Corsair I'll love them forever

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Originally Posted by Lollerblades

It's unique in its own right.

I'd rather it took nothing from XI and WoW. They're completely seperate and should stay that way.

However if they add Corsair I'll love them forever

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"take nothing from xi", *wants Corsair*

yeah there are many good things they could have grabbed from xi such as the merit system and or SC/MB oh and so much more

I'd like to see a form of BCNM/KSNMs and something like Salvage (most fun I had in XI) minus the insanely terrible drop rates. Most of the other stuff can stay in XI where it belongs.

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Originally Posted by LaralnKornera

Give the developers credit and give it a chance to become something new

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They have had many years to do something new, Yoshida has made it clear his goal is to emulate what works.


When and if they do try to differentiate themselves from the current market I will applaud them, but we can rule that out for the most part because XIV has to play it safe it's too much of a risk to be different. I've said it before many MMOs fall into the trap of "Trying to please everyone" it's a futile attempt you will please one crowd only to anger the other and unless you can churn out ungodly ammounts of content you will never keep both sides happy.

We gave Square Enix a second chance to make the game, we are still giving them a chance. We will voice out opinions because it's what we feel is best for the game, the developers have every right to ignore us, but to tell me that Yoshida is ever going to try "Something new" I will have to see some kind of effort on his part to ever beleive that. 1.0 Yoshida blew alot of smoke about cool new features that never came to see the light of day and many promised systems came out lackluster at best.

Square Enix is taking it's standard all quite on the home front aproach being very cloak and dagger with update details and plans for the future, they refuse to engage with dialogue with the player base and only pass down decrees and ultimatums.

"Working as intended" isn't what we want to hear, we want them to tell us why something like the Dark Devices Fate grind is somehow "What we intended to happen" That then means they intended people to not end the fate and only grind monsters at their spawn point? It's beyond rediculous to think that was ever a thought that crossed their minds. What part of encouraging players to take a server wide activity and make it exploitable only by small parties to leave the rest of the people who wish to play the fate to it's end get harassed for interfering with what other people now feel is the only proper way to do the fate.

When the developers show us they can actually tackle tough problems without stonewalling the community perhaps you will hear us yell about issues less. Until then it seems only those of us who scream the loudest even have a chance of being heard (Much to the dismay of the community reps who try and and keep us informed) they can only relay what the developers allow them.

While we can be assured the developers are reading and listening to what we say, the utter randomness of their responses makes it hard for us as a community to gague what they are really looking into and what issues they are trying to sweep under the rug.

I have never played WoW, and even I know what parts are "WoW"ish because I've seen them in other games. I also haven't played FFXI either.

That said, WoW IS ugly. This game isn't. FFXI is dated, this game isn't. FFXIV V1 was an exercise in frustration, that people didn't want to play it when it was free.

Where does FFXIV improve? Having to actually move/dodge red circles and AOE's, that brings it up to difficulty Parity with Action MMORPG's without being a twitch game of having to time skill combos with sub-second accuracy.

im in for more ffxi like give me a exp party that's decent /signs

please if you do anything get rid or diminish the FATE system and replace it with dungeons, or group based xp mobs etc. FATE's as I see it are nothing more than zerg fests. there is no group dynamics involved other than getting a full party. no one talks, comes up with any strategies or anything. Everyone just groups up and moves like locust from spot to spot.

I did svana the dragon fate tonight for the first time and nothing was said on how to do it. just basically 70 people swarmed the place and took out the dragon. then left. All the while 1 poor guy is asking for help with chimera and no one is helping him (i would have helped but I'm not up to that point yet in the story).

I think mobs should have a chance at dropping chests and decent loot. make them give more xp and make some of them tougher. make it worth while for people to explore and attack mobs in these zones that are going to waste because the only thing being attacked) are the 5 or 6 fates in a zone.

FFXIV 1.0 was a lot like FFXI. Guess what happened to that game.

Lets not do that again lol.

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Originally Posted by Ponno

I did svana the dragon fate tonight for the first time and nothing was said on how to do it. just basically 70 people swarmed the place and took out the dragon. then left. All the while 1 poor guy is asking for help with chimera and no one is helping him (i would have helped but I'm not up to that point yet in the story).

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If you're doing Svara, you're not level 50 and can't help him.

Basically what I've seen is people either do the Svara chain if they're between level 30 and 40, and the Dark Devices chain if they're in the 40's, of which the latter is obnoxious because people whine if you do it. There's also a 3-act highbridge that works the same way.

If you need to do Chimera, go to Revenant's toll and shout there since that's where all the 50's camp. Almost nobody does the FATE's there, so help yourself.

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Originally Posted by Saieno

Actually they've borrowed a ton from FFXI, from mobs to jobs. This however is a completely different game with different mechanics, like every Final Fantasy game that has come before it. FFXI still exists, you can go play it, FFXIV is a different game and is quite successful at the moment.

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Borrowing some art and names is not 'a ton' or even 'a lot'. Second, ffxi isn't really ffxi anymore, they actually seem to have taken on a lot of the ideas from Yoshi P. when Matsui took over as producer and now we have basically a not quite the same but similar experience over there in a spiritual form so going back to ffxi is not going back to ffxi if that makes any sense. I would LOVE to see Yoshi actually add something unique like people seem to think he is but he isn't thus far. All the "this is not like wow" people are fooling themselves or don't know any better, its not a carbon copy no but all the major features of the game are inspired by and are very reminiscent of wow (with a few exceptions of course, hence not a carbon copy) and if you played any mmos that were not trying to copy wow you should see this I would think.

While i understand FFXI had much more time to make more things to do, i'd prefer so much from FFXI over FFXIV. For starters, exp parties were way better than dungeon runs for exp or fate grinding. In the 6 years i played FFXI i made alot of good friends from just exping. And this game really lacks that with the cross server duty finder. You had to communicate in FFXI, because everyone needed help for stuff. With FFXIV i rarely talk to anyone because, what's the point? I still don't even have a FC or linkshell (by choice) because i have very little desire to try and make friends on FFXIV. FFXIV just doesn't seem like a long term MMO to me and i guess that's why i'm reluctant to make friends.

Also in FFXI i felt like there was more to do than just "level something up". That's really all it feels like you can do in FFXIV is "level something up". What are the choices really? Level something up or dungeon runs? Just everything feels so grindy in FFXIV. :(

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Oh go soak your head.

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I like my head dry, thank you!

Anyway, I'm just saying, XI was the kind of game where I would log in and sigh continuously for the entirety of my gaming session. It was a game that I can truly say I hated playing; it was nothing but frustration for me. XIV, I think, strikes a good balance between the style or vibe of XI and the gameplay of more accessible (read: fun) games like WoW.

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Originally Posted by ufufu

I like my head dry, thank you!

Anyway, I'm just saying, XI was the kind of game where I would log in and sigh continuously for the entirety of my gaming session. It was a game that I can truly say I hated playing; it was nothing but frustration for me. XIV, I think, strikes a good balance between the style or vibe of XI and the gameplay of more accessible (read: fun) games like WoW.

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Thats nice, everyone has their own preferences and I had a very different experience with the game than you did. I would log in and observe a vast, complex, lore driven world that really embraced the idea of an MMORPG being a living world (read: fun). That came with certain factors some people weren't ok with just as THIS games style comes with problems some people are not ok with.

Like it or not, WoW has the best game mechanics/gameplay. I hate WoW only because of I don't like the lore/settings so WoW gameplay + better settings is my dream game.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Like it or not, WoW has the best game mechanics/gameplay. I hate WoW only because of I don't like the lore/settings so WoW gameplay + better settings is my dream game.

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I can't say I agree. Personally I found wow to be a solid game when I played but I cant say I thought its mechanics and gameplay were the best so... I'm not sure thats really a valid argument? (not certain exactly why you said it, for all I know you were just stating your own opinion but it doesn't read that way) as the quality of wow's mechanics and which mechanics are best are highly subjective.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

FFXIV 1.0 was a lot like FFXI. Guess what happened to that game.

Lets not do that again lol.

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Actually I think you never played either if you say that or just want to purposely misinform ppl. The only similarities were that you could change job (with weapon instead of moogle), exclusive mob claim and ... that's it. Let make a real comparison list. I'll be using The ris of the Zilart as a base, not vanilla since it's how it was released in the NA:

Leveling - XI: EXP per mob based on relative difficulty, EXP Chain; XIV 1.0: Percentage of chance to get a skill increase on successful action based on difficulty (each pt members got different exp)
Job - XI: Classic FF jobs; XIV 1.0: Jobs never seen before in FF
Cross-classing: XI: Sub-job, get all abilities from the sub-job which is at most half your main level; XIV 1.0: Use abilities from other jobs on a per ability basis, but limited amount of abilities to use
Combat - XI: Skillchain, MB; XIV 1.0: Regimen (which never worked)
Story - XI: Unlocked with rank; XIV 1.0: 1 quest every 5 levels
Quests - XI: Had an actual story, hidden (no map markers), unlocked based on level, reputation and previous quests completed; FFXIV 1.0: None, levequests, nothing else
Maps - XI: Quest rewards, Found in chests, bought; XIV 1.0: All given from the start
Quest Rewards - XI: Item, reputation, maps, zone unlock; XIV 1.0: N/A
NM - XI: Open World NM; XIV 1.0: N/A
Dungeons - XI: BCNM (and later Dynamis); XIV 1.0: N/A
Transportation - XI: Chocobo, Ship (quite scary first ride with skels for me, memorable moment), Airship (with interesting view) and teleport spell; XIV 1.0: Teleport using anima, forgot the exact regen rate I think it was 1 anima per 8 hours and teleport used 8 anima I think
Death - XI: EXP Penalty + weakness; XIV 1.0: Weakness
Repairs - XI: N/A; XIV 1.0: A mess to get the material to get it repaired
Jump - XI: N/A; XIV 1.0: N/A (thanks for that)
Market - XI: AH; XIV 1.0: Retainers in market wards without search function

Did I miss anything?

While I cannot see anything remotely close to wow in this game, I want to stay as far away from wow as I possibly can because I could not so much as enjoy that game enough to play it let alone like it. The graphics, world, mob, and character design in that game make it basically impossible for me to consider it so I agree on anything that makes this game not like wow. That being said, if people like wow and like ffxi, they are both still running and playable so I don't see the problem if you dislike this game when you can still play the games you like???

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Originally Posted by Andrien

FFXIV 1.0 was a lot like FFXI.

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Remember when they said that they actually designed FFXIV to be the oposite of XI?

Of course you don't. XIV 1.0 couldn't have been any farther from XI. The only similarities was multiple jobs on one character and the races themselves.

Am I the only one who hates how everything on the internet has become a petition now?

He didnt even bother to set up the op as a petition list.

Except SE has responded to this petition. Here's their answer: "No"

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Originally Posted by Bita

"take nothing from xi", *wants Corsair*

yeah there are many good things they could have grabbed from xi such as the merit system and or SC/MB oh and so much more

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I played XI for XI years.
It's an armoury system. It has jobs from previous titles. Your sarcasm is moot.

Just remove FATEs or nerf the xp gained from them by 90% and a big step has been made.

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Originally Posted by Dannyl

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Originally Posted by Jynx

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I can tell both of you never played FFXI before Rise of The Zilart expansion. Don't lie about it.

There was no AH, level cap at 50, Map features didn't work, among other things.

It took FFXI its first expansion to be good. I can tell you, FFXIV:ARR already surpasses FFXI original Japanese launch in terms of content, and accessibility.

I know you guys want FFXIV to be a great game. I'm just saying, FFXI is good but isn't all that great. I want FFXIV:ARR to be its own thing, while taking what works, and making them better in its own way.

This game is nothing like WoW. It doesn't have the depth, the variation, the vastness, the fun, the complexity, the end-game content. Quite frankly it's inferior in almost every single way imaginable except maybe the main storyline.

And that's coming from someone who decided to sub, hence why I'm still here.

I honestly don't see how you can even remotely associate FFXIV with WoW - it's nowhere near in terms of quality. I played it for 5 years and got bored then moved on and have never been back (Vanilla to Lich King). I honestly don't see XIV keeping me for two more months.

I doubt you will see anything that is remotely close to something from XI. Yoshi wants to make a WoW/GW2 combination and if it isn't in those two you won't see it here. Gl though.

I'd love to see something like this.

Weather and elemental effects, super-rare monsters that might drop gear that will be good for you for 20 levels, taking time to travel (and making the world feel bigger), encouraged teamplay and crafted gear actually having relevance in the world are things I sorely miss. You could be at least slightly unique through devotion and effort. You felt like you had your place in the world. At the moment you can be pretty much anything or everything with little effort which makes it hard to be much more than "just another faceless adventurer".

On the other hand taking 45+ mins to reach your friend, practically no solo content beyond crafting and a few classes and the lack of quests are things of the past. I'm glad those are gone.

I think what would be nice is an implementation of the secret world, repeatable quests, not main story but side quests, this would mean more dynamic to lvling other classes than just Fate grind

In what ways is this game like WOW? In what ways is WOW like any other MMO? In what ways can an MMO be much more different than the formats that currently exist? I see many differences between this game and WOW. I happen to like how the UI and play style accommodates the majority of players--who are coming from WOW--so that they can play their character in a relatively fluid fashion.

Specific ideas are great. Generalizations that do not really address anything or which are made with the sentiments that every MMO should be vastly different from the last are not really productive concepts.

The Op dose have a valid point but lets try to look at it in a different way. So basicly we have XIV that is neither great at this nor bad at that other than the class/job system. So what can be done to fix it. For starters open world mobs need to present a challenge, as it stands now all can be face rolled. Fate's are incredibly boring, even odin and behemouth fates offer nothing of importance or use unless you really want them. The farming of tome's (both) is just as boring. All boss fights are scripted (easy mode due to the fact you know whats coming next) so let's take out all the scripted bs and let them use tp moves (meaning they can do any move once they have enough tp to do so minus the lb moves of the primals).

The class system is basicly useless just remove it and go with straight jobs. There is no point to useing a class once you unlock a job and everything can be soloed with a job. Both tanaka and Yoshi used the class/job system and it dose in a way mimic the main/sub job of XI. In fact they should have just used the main/sub job system instead of this retarded system they are currently useing.

Players think they need hard mode or extreme mode dungeons but in fact we need less instanced dungeons and more open world area's that present some sort of challenge. We need a system that isnt scripted but a system that the mobs and the player's adapt to based on the fight, that would present the challenge that player's want. Players dont need everything handed to them regardless of how much time you have to play progress can be made regardless of time if the player/players have any interest at all, but we currently have a game that rewards players for doing very little to no work at all on their part.

Im sure other idea's can be added to help make the game more challengeing and enjoyable that dosent require face rolling or hand outs, but require's real effort. I understand it is a game but do players really want a game thats lame and boring or do they want something that for a little more effort as well as fun and enjoyable be worth your time to the point that makes you want to sub to this game?

If they put in monster camping I'm out.

Waiting until 5 am to get on FFXI and stand around in a circle full of bots and no lifers, only to try and tag a single mob is not fun.

You guys can go play FFXI, its still up.

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Originally Posted by vincent1

Stuff.

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I realize you are just trolling...but...

1. The engine isn't poor. You take damage from the attack if you are still in the red circle when it dissapears. The attack at that point is successful. The animation may take a bit and you THINK you escaped, but it already determined that you didn't get out in time. You need to react quicker.

2. No idea what you even mean here. I have no issues.

3. Same as above. What are you even talking about?

4. In WoW your bank doesn't act as a storage device AND auction seller. It does here.

5. Hey, a valid point! You finally found one! But every new MMO has this problem. WoW had it too when it came out. It'll get fixed.

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Originally Posted by MaFi0s0

MMORPGS, the only gaming genre where people say its too much or not enough like other games in the same genre.

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No... that's pretty much what people do with all games of all genres. Music and movies come to mind as well.

Not even FF11 is FF11 anymore.. That should pretty much tell you something about the direction of where these games are going when the most hardcore of hardcore MMO's goes soft.

SO, if you want to make this game more like FF11 then I assume you mean 8 Hr notorious Monsters, killing weeds/branches for hours, and turning into mobs to solo Faf is acceptable to you?

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Originally Posted by Moontide

I
Weather and elemental effects, super-rare monsters that might drop gear that will be good for you for 20 levels, taking time to travel (and making the world feel bigger), encouraged teamplay and crafted gear actually having relevance in the world are things I sorely miss.

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I hate that "rare monster drops gear" thing VERY much, because in another (freemium) game I played, that was the single source of rare items, and the person who hit it first and the person who got the finish got entirely disproportionate rewards. It became a joke where "everyone" tagged the field boss and then just sat around. Then later in the game , the players were so overpowered that it was now a race of which player could take down a field boss SOLO by camping them. No please don't do this, this isn't fun and basically screws people who don't live in convenient time zones.


Now the size of the world, yes I wish the world actually felt larger. V1 felt large (this coming from someone who walked between Gridanaia and Ul'dah at several times in V1) and the first day on V2 I did the same thing, and it seemed... shorter, albeit harder. In V1 I ran to all the Aethernet points and the only ones I couldn't reach were probably where Dragonhead is. In V2 I tagged all the Aethernet points over the first few days before I realized you get proportionate experience for discovering the areas and was like. "well there goes like 200k in experience"

1. there is a 100 page post of complaints about the red circle postion lag problem. how many pages of complaints do you need before you accept there is a problem? 100 pages means 1000 complaints. get it? the visibility of the red circle, cast animation, and damage going off need to be in sync. what do you not understand about this?

2. the 'hand in' that is required for quests. it is an extra click. if you say it makes the game more immersive ok. i say it is just se adding unneeded mouse-clicks

3. i have had at least a dozen times in the game so far where i was able to accept a quest, and then complete it, only to find i am too low level to turn it in. this is utter nonsense. and yes, you can find posts about this problem too.

4. if you like clicking to open, clicking to close the same dialogue intro box you have seen several hundred times, and then finally getting to your bank, ok. i don't.

It boggles the mind how anyone could have fond memories about 4k/hour EXP parties, hours and hours spent lfg, all the drama at the king camps, and more. Stockholm Syndrome anyone?

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Originally Posted by vincent1

1. there is a 100 page post of complaints about the red circle postion lag problem. how many pages of complaints do you need before you accept there is a problem? 100 pages means 1000 complaints. get it? the visibility of the red circle, cast animation, and damage going off need to be in sync. what do you not understand about this?

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I don't get this complaint. Is it that people don't have the twitch behavior necessary to actually move, or is it primarily casters who are complaining because they get stuck mid-animation? As a Bard I rarely get caught in the red circles because I see them and move out of the way unless it's a super-wide AOE (Marlboro mobs), but as a White Mage I tend to not have enough time to move out of the way if I was I mid-cast. Number 1 reason for WHM death is the WHM being the target while the cast started, because it turns into "complete cast, tank AOE" or "get out of the way and you both/all dies"