Weekly Caps: Worse than Fatigue

I hear sunlight and fresh air are nice this time of year...

This game is a WoW clone. Caps are put into place so you dont blow thru content, just like in WoW. It prevents people from getting bored. Even in WoW, you cant buy a single piece of gear with the top PvE currency after the one weeks cap. In all honesty, AF2 shouldn't be better than Allagan. AF2 should be a temporary replacement for Allagan gear, with a few exceptions that are actually better than raid drops. The raid drops should always be the best gear. What is weird, is the fact that they are releasing Crystal Tower and it drops gear worse than Allagan and Crystal Tower is easier. I get that they need end game for casuals, but whats the point for everyone else? Extra oppurtunity to replace DL is the only thing it seems to be for now.

Also, myth caps will be removed, once they have a better raiding currency needed for better gear than AF2. That's what they will do if they continue to be a WoW clone.

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Originally Posted by Neomarl

You casuals disgust me.

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Too bad for you that it's the 'Casuals' that form the vast majority of the playerbase and hence provide most of the funding for the game and thus quite rightly form the demographic around which game progression decisions such as this are based. Deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Alyko

Maybe you shouldn't play 10 hours a day and exhaust all the content?

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that s not true, I play 8-10h /day and I have plenty thing to do beside that 300 caps

edit: and I play the game sine 1.0....I have not finish much of it...and here ppl scream for lack of content

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Just because the myth cap gets removed doesn't mean you're forced to stop doing everything else and just do AK. That's your own fault. Right now you don't want it removed because you don't have the willpower to avoid doing it until your eyes bleed.
Removing the cap doesn't remove the ability to do other things. If anything it frees it up since you're not forced to waiting in queue trying to cap it.

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No I like the fact that the game FORCES you to go do something else.
Because as I said before, you have to look at all those topics that say end game is boring and you have nothing else to do besides AK farming.
There plenty of things to do and the game HAVE to remind you that there are such things because the player base dont have the power to think for themselves.

Why should you have to pay for a game that restrict's your progress?.

If i want to run a dungeon as many times as can to get myth's i need/want to upgrade why should it suddenly stop at 300 if i have time to do more.
There's no limit on the amount of stuff you can craft like make 1000's of log's/ingots/yarn why should grinding myth's be any different.

Hell if there was another way to level your job effectively i would probably do that i mean when you get your char to lvl 50 you have more or less exhausted all the quest to lvl your other char apart from Fate grinding.

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Originally Posted by Alyko

Maybe you shouldn't play 10 hours a day and exhaust all the content?

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My group can easily clear AK three times in the space of an hour. Several hours and we're done with Mythology for the week. Speedrunning? No, we can clear pretty much every mob (SBing yo) and still clear it in under 30 minutes, only thing that adds to that is people needing to go AFK or wiping for silly reasons. Once you have Relics and Relic+1s, AK speedrunning is the default setting, no matter what you try to do there...

Am I meant to spread those few hours out across the week or something? What exactly am I meant to be doing in the mean time? Level other Jobs? Sure, so I can't gear them? With the Mythology cap there really isn't much point in leveling multiple Jobs, even if I do it isn't like that'll take long at all. Disciples of Hand and Land? Sure, that is what I have been doing... With Levequests that is possibly worse than capping Mythology though, you can get 50 ridiculously fast, either that or it is just outright boring (Botany/Miner)... Then what do I do with that? Make Gil? For what, housing? Well, that is in 2.2 at best, since I'm not about to pay for my entire Free Companies house... Oh, and lets hope while I'm making Gil Gil Buyers don't buy my trash so SE has an excuse to ban me for a week and return my account with 10% of the Gil I did have, though luckily Legacy servers seem immune to such problems.

Honestly, this game should go F2P, because that is clearly the model they've set up here... All that weekly Mythology cap is missing is a cash shop option to reset it mid-week... At least then I might have a reason to log in after Wednesday... I wouldn't even say the lack of content is a problem, it is the ease of anything pre-Coil that is a problem... Nothing in this game feels like it takes any amount of time for me to do, the closest thing this game has to a grind is me figuring out what to do while I wait for weekly caps to piss off, and at this point that has resulted in my logging in less... 2.1 better be damned amazing...

Seriously, I'm going to be generous and say capping Mythology takes 5 hours out of my week; what should I do with the other (to give a rough estimate on my playtime) 27 hours?

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Originally Posted by Alyko

Maybe you shouldn't play 10 hours a day and exhaust all the content?

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Wow dat mug. I'm staying clear of supercuts lol.

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Why should you have to pay for a game that restrict's your progress?.
/snip

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Because this is an MMORPG and they have to restrict your progress SOMEHOW so that you are not bored in doing the same thing over and over.
They have to do this in order to make you return and play the game in orderly fashion, these are the most basic of the basic mechanics of an MMORPG.
If you dont want to play an MMORPG you dont have to "pay" for it and you can go play a single player experience where everything is done in a few hours and then you can jump onto the next game.

People nowdays cannot understand the mechanics or the philosophy of the game they are playing.
It SHOULD take months to level up your character, but because people think that they are playing a racing game and not an MMORPG they want to finish it in few days.
WoW made this possible, but only after years of release in order to make new people to reach end game fast.
It makes sence for an MMO that is dying (it already has lots of end game content) but it doesnt make sense on a new one.

New MMOs should use some other tricks in order to deliberately slow down your progress and make you play the game for a longer period.
Just read the forums, half of the people are complaining about nothing else to do besides farming Mythology and the other half are complaining because they want to farm MORE mythology stones....

Seems strange right?
Learn to play MMORPGs, these things take time to complete, you cant have everything max at day 1, find something else to do, the games offers many more things to do besides farming mythology and its good that it FORCES you to do something else.
You might enjoy it after all and if you dont then you can go play something else.

EDIT: OH and for the last time, AF2 IS NOT the only end game gear.
AK gear is fine, Darklight is fine, Bahamut Coil Gear is fine and Craftable gear with 2 stars is more than fine, just HQ it and put 5 materia on them.
DO THAT with the remaining 1000 hourse on the week when you dont farm mythology, there are no caps on these.

FFXIV ARR is a mulligan. It's the do-over to fix a game engine that wasn't scalable and supportable, so that they could finally get back to writing new content and provide a new game experience and collecting money in exchange for fun gameplay. And the hubbub and hullabaloo really put a good spin on the launch in the media. But what that necessarily means is that they were not writing new content.

The blocks put in place are artificial obstacles; they are speed bumps to get the new players to catch up to legacy players so the bifurcation of the player base is removed. Then SE can produce the same content for everyone. Unfortunately, the needs of getting this launched outweighed the needs to provide new continents, new classes, and new expansions.

So those that are very direct in their gameplay, where they proceed from level 1 to level 50 in a direct path, will quickly run into the end of the internet. It's unfortunate, but the boredom of many is just a price so that the rest can play a new game. It's obvious SE doesn't want everyone to be bored, but a lot of people are bored. People should take a step back and look at the meta-game for answers. The answer is because it isn't designed/playtested yet, not because SE has no intention of adding it. This includes crystal tower. Or Red Mages. Or Ishgard. Or whatever. It should be quite interesting to watch when they launch the expansion in early 2015 and the ilevel 120 gear awarded in entry dungeons exceeds the darklight people are being artificially blocked from right now.

*This document contains no forward looking material knowledge. Prior SE history suggests it is just as likely they will lay off their design team and close their offices in North America before this date instead of releasing an expansion.

I have to agree others, we are paying to play this game there should be no "well you cannot play anymore" situations.

But the Issue is the lack of content in general, not lockouts per say. Lockouts are fine in a p2p game.... just not when there is nothing else to do. XI had a stupid amount of them but you never ever ran out of stuff even if you played 16hrs a day. Not so in XIV.

Example: We got all our coil groups in the guild to turn 5 (Disabled atm) and most people are capped myth. So we are paying to play a game that we can do a whole weeks content in 72hrs. This will not work a p2p game, yea we are hardcore and dedicate a decent amount of time to it. But that does not matter at all. Game needs more valid non-negated content to be added. Negated as in content that is not worth doing any more.

Big issue is SE made relics way to easy to get. That should of been a time sink. That way Primal Farming would be worth doing... it takes 4hrs to go from scratch to a relic weapon which is crazy.

I am hoping 2.1 fixes it. The crystal tower alliance thing is worrying me atm. I am hoping SE lets you take your guild only if you choose in there and not force us to get 2 pug partys. (The lack of an alliance feature and no talk of one worries me atm)

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

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So you are saying that if you can't farm Mythology tomes you can't play?

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Originally Posted by SolviteSekai

So you are saying that if you can't farm Mythology tomes you can't play?

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No, they are saying if they can't farm mythology tomes they can't play the way they want to.

This pattern should be pretty easy to recognize as a c*** block or speedbump. It's classic game design.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Big issue is SE made relics way to easy to get. That should of been a time sink. That way Primal Farming would be worth doing... it takes 4hrs to go from scratch to a relic weapon which is crazy.

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No one is hitting 50 and getting their relic in 4 hours unless they are getting carried. No patch is going to fix this. If you play a lot, you will run out of content - always and forever. You may as well decide now if you are okay with this or not, cause it ain't changing.

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Originally Posted by Retrograde

No, they are saying if they can't farm mythology tomes they can't play the way they want to.

This pattern should be pretty easy to recognize as a c*** block or speedbump. It's classic game design.

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People who play the game for 16 hours a day are the minority. The EXTREME minority.

I'm not saying the casual is more important, but really, if you can't handle the caps you need to play a game that isn't new. I'm not defending the game's lack of content, because it sucks. I'm not defending the lag or other issues, because they suck.

However, based on Xatsh's comments I have to infer that they started playing FFXI way after release and expect all games to be that way.

The correct solution for not being able to play a game the way you want to, is to go out and find a game that lets you play in a way that you find enjoyable.

Going onto the forums and causing needless concern won't make the game better.

There's no excuse for gated content on a game that encourages you to have only one character. I honestly hope developers stop copying the bad aspects from older MMORPGs.

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This pattern should be pretty easy to recognize as a c*** block or speedbump. It's classic game design.

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And one that it does well and exists in this game.
This is the way it should be done, or they could go oldschool way and make leveling last 6 months per class (which is also fine but new players are not satisfied if they dont reach level 50 in a day).

Square Enix know what they are doing, its the players that need to wake up and see whats happening here.
If you guys could farm all the mythology you want, you would have quit game 1 month ago.

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Originally Posted by SolviteSekai

So you are saying that if you can't farm Mythology tomes you can't play?

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NO I am saying if you are at cap tomes, you cannot run Baha Coil, and you have all 50s you cannot really progress much farther.

As for leveling you can get to cap in 3 days as well per job. So even if you are non-legacy it is too easy to level.

This is the problem with current mmos... this mentality that you will always run out of content if you are hardcore, or you just have to be casual. People wonder why every game in the last 8yrs has failed more or less with the p2p model. It is not the subs, it is the fact people will not pay to be bored. It is the DEVS job to give us enough content. IF they want to make it casual only content they need to add it alot faster then they are because a hardcore guild will burn through 3 months of development in 2 days if it is casual.

Solution: Add stuff that is not Casual along side the casual. Both partys are happy.

what make me laugh is people spaming the fastest way to make mythos then cry because they have nothing else to do and they only do one boring dungeon

one possible solution:
remove "general" weakly cap
add a PER EVENT cap (200 from Ak 100->300 from each primals )

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Originally Posted by Steeled

Great logic. Anyone that's bored with 2 instances, a raid, and 3 spare fights plays too much.

No, there should be more content.

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OR! you know, you can do the other 90% of the game, that some people seemed to jump over and forget about, instead of just doing the same thing over and over on 1 class, just sayin'

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Originally Posted by Kraftstyle

Some people are here to kill stuff, not to gather stuff.

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You don't need tokens as reward to kill stuffs. Just join a random dungeon to help others.
In 2.1 you also get tokens for random dungeons to help others, I think

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Originally Posted by Ri_ri

There's no excuse for gated content on a game that encourages you to have only one character. I honestly hope developers stop copying the bad aspects from older MMORPGs.

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It also encourages you to play more than just 1 class on this one character.

Interjection into this debate: while the 300 cap I can see as being problematic for some as it is a hard stop, instead of a slower grind. Why is that the only thing you will do? You will rerun AK for tomes and nothing else, but why?

I am trying to understand this. If you don't enjoy running dungeons except for gear, and you only need gear for running dungeons, it seems a fruitless exercise no matter how much content is available, or how many tomes you can get per week.

I re-run dungeons for fun, and there are a lot more than just AK......

"Rested experience" is also kind of Fatigue system presented backwards and it made everyone perfectly happy. I do find it amusing that people don't notice these stuff XD

If SE were smart and presented the fatigue system in 1.0 like rested experience, saying that non fatigue is BONUS experience and that fatigue is NORMAL experience - no one would complain lol...

In the same manner, in 2.0, SE could call rested bonus Non-Fatigue, and when run out of Rested call it Fatigue - but then everyone would rage lol...

On topic - caps should be removed. And to all those saying "But then you'll end the game in 1 month!", my reply is, then make more content?

By your logic SE should also place limit to gils earned per week so you don't get super rich in 1 month and run of things to buy, add limit to seals earned per week so you don't run of things to buy with seals in 1 month.

If SE want to keep players more than 1 month, they should pump content and not put silly caps. But that requires work ( > . >

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Originally Posted by Starlord

OR! you know, you can do the other 90% of the game, that some people seemed to jump over and forget about, instead of just doing the same thing over and over on 1 class, just sayin'

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Yeah! Let's do the same thing over and over on another class aka FATE grind!
Fun times, good times. I rather farm a single boring dungeon till I can't take it then FATE grind.
I love dungeons, there just needs to be more ways to obtain these Tome's peoples need.
All dungeons should of been in a level 50 mode and that solved everything. These early
dungeons are collecting dust after the first Storyline run.

The myth cap is very alt unfriendly. The only solution as of now is to make an actual alt, a new character and level it to cap. It really goes against the armoury system, as now you can't reuse gear you already got on your main character (Like shared DL, AK gear, Primal weapons etc.) but now have to get it all over again minus the +50% increase on EXP from a capped class and jumping through hoops to get your pooled gil and materials because you can't send your other characters mail.

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Yeah! Let's do the same thing over and over on another class aka FATE grind!

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Then don't FATE grind? Parties are just as good as FATEs, It has been proven from a Japanese Team at Launch getting SCH from 1-42 ( last I checked)

Levequest, You don't always have to party ya know, do some things solo for a bit

Hunting Log, Hunt down those monsters that are sometimes only in 1 spot out of a WHOLE zone to kill for good exp.

Dungeons, there's a good variety of them, if your level 42 you can still do the level 15 ones if you want, There's 15ish Dungeons, plenty of places to go.

Guildleves ( Yes they need to give people a little more exp for this which should come in 2.1): It is another source of exp.

Why in the world people only do FATEs to rush to 50 anyways? Look where it got you in the end? -.- There is other content, just some people choose to just do FATEs>1 class only> End-game. No wonder why people are complaining, they skipped a lot of the content.

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Some of us are not interested in leveling other classes

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That's fine, just don't complain there isn't content, when clearly there is, just choose not to do it ( which is fine don't), just don't complain.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

OR! you know, you can do the other 90% of the game, that some people seemed to jump over and forget about, instead of just doing the same thing over and over on 1 class, just sayin'

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Some of us are not interested in leveling other classes besides what we already have. Also, NO FATE GRIND. NO. NOT EVER AGAIN. NO. I had enough with just leveling 1 job in ARR. Not going through that shit ever again until they fix it.

Ugh, I see you haven't changed one bit since the beta even after playing this mess, so let's see...

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Then don't FATE grind? Parties are just as good as FATEs, It has been proven from a Japanese Team at Launch getting SCH from 1-42 ( last I checked)

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No one's willing to do them because not that many people know it's viable

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Levequest, You don't always have to party ya know, do some things solo for a bit

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WAY WORSE THAN FATES. Seriously, it's at least x10 as repetitive as fate grinding. I'd much rather save allowances for crafting leves and such.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Hunting Log, Hunt down those monsters that are sometimes only in 1 spot out of a WHOLE zone to kill for goos exp.

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They give you enough experience for about a level and half, and you can only do them every 10 levels. Nice one, SE.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Dungeons, there's a good variety of them, if your level 42 you can still do the level 15 ones if you want, There's 15ish Dungeons, plenty of places to go.

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And a 40 minute dungeon run gives you about as much experience as a 5 minute FATE. Yeah.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Guildleves ( Yes they need to give people a little more exp for this which should come in 2.1): It is another source of exp.

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NO.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Why in the world people only do FATEs to rush to 50 anyways? Look where it got you in the end? -.- There is other content, just some people choose to just do FATEs>1 class only> End-game. No wonder why people are complaining, they skipped a lot of the content.

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Because the game was designed that way. As per Yoshi's own words the game was MADE to be a rush to endgame. Everything before endgame is nothing but a short-lived (yet god-awful) grind. It was designed that way purposefully. By the devs' own words, the game "starts at level 50". Yet that's where it dies out. That is the single biggest flaw there is with games that are almost 100% centered around endgame. Called it since this was mentioned even before the alpha, and here we are now.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

I think that caps should remain as is because there are many things to do in this game and I dont want to spend all my time doing AK runs.

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But for some of us there really is not that many things to do.
Some of us have all jobs caped and multiple relics. The cap is somewhat frustrating and only put there because the overall lack of content.
I mean it doesn't really bother me as much as others but I do not deny its a stupid system. I have been saying since the beta
SE should wait a few more months to prepare more content before release or they would place some system like this in place.

you kids are spoiled...

http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/image/677

http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploa...waterfalls.gif

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Why in the world people only do FATEs to rush to 50 anyways? Look where it got you in the end? -.- There is other content, just some people choose to just do FATEs>1 class only> End-game. No wonder why people are complaining, they skipped a lot of the content..

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Because it's the only efficient way to level.
I didn't rush and look I'm still 46 after over a month in this game, and I barely touched FATE's on my WHM.
They need to buff EXP in dungeons by a long shot. As a DPS, we already know we have to wait FOREVER to enter a dungeon. Parties are = FATE parties. Okay that's fun.

Also what content?
There is no content after your first 50.
We're just re-running the same crap but FATE wise back and forth.

I do other methods before running FATE's. I honestly don't want to take 5 months to level in different ways without FATE so I won't really level anything else till they fixed it. I just wish dungeon EXP was a lot more better.
Do not pin me as a rusher because I am not, but the game was pretty much said by Yoshi, "The game begins at 50."
There is nothing worth going back doing and he skipped everything else early PvE and Sub-class crap to focus on this mundane End-game people have here.
The game has been out over a month, and + some days if we were here Phase 4 and EA. Rushing isn't viable reason to say this anymore.
There is a lack of content, and that's just it.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Then don't FATE grind? Parties are just as good as FATEs, It has been proven from a Japanese Team at Launch getting SCH from 1-42 ( last I checked)

Levequest, You don't always have to party ya know, do some things solo for a bit

Hunting Log, Hunt down those monsters that are sometimes only in 1 spot out of a WHOLE zone to kill for good exp.

Dungeons, there's a good variety of them, if your level 42 you can still do the level 15 ones if you want, There's 15ish Dungeons, plenty of places to go.

Guildleves ( Yes they need to give people a little more exp for this which should come in 2.1): It is another source of exp.

Why in the world people only do FATEs to rush to 50 anyways? Look where it got you in the end? -.- There is other content, just some people choose to just do FATEs>1 class only> End-game. No wonder why people are complaining, they skipped a lot of the content.



That's fine, just don't complain there isn't content, when clearly there is, just choose not to do it ( which is fine don't), just don't complain.

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I wholeheartedly agree with this post.

Far too many people who are grinding at endgame, saying they're burnt out...and at the same time are asking silly questions about the storyline they skipped over, wondering what levequests/guildhests are, think you can't get gold in FATEs as a solo healer, do not know how to finish all the low-level dungeons or haven't even seen all of them, do not have all the useful cross-class skills available for their job, never even tried out any crafts because they're "lame" but then proceed to wonder why they're not making any gil, etc.

Yeah, IMHO, nobody should be listening to these players about anything other than the 5% (tops) of the game they're actually playing.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

OR! you know, you can do the other 90% of the game, that some people seemed to jump over and forget about, instead of just doing the same thing over and over on 1 class, just sayin'

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There is no content after your first 50...sorry. Fate grinding is the only efficient way to play a 2nd job. That's all there is to do on your first job, which IS the problem.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

That's fine, just don't complain there isn't content, when clearly there is, just choose not to do it ( which is fine don't), just don't complain.

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There isn't. I've done it all, and doing it for another job would be nothing but endless repetition. What's next, will you suggest me to create a new character or something?

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Because it's the only efficient way to level.

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On my first class I was a FATE beast, when I realize how much exp it was giving me and how fast I got to 37 I stopped doing them a lot ( I still do them only when they are near me).

I been doing the other content so I just don;t sit there FATE grinding my life away, course it's not the most proficient way to level but I am having FUN! I don't understand why people that "Hate" FATE grinding torture themselves just so they can get there first 50 or any 50 for that matter.

I'm leveling at a steady pace and having fun, I still don;t have my first 50 ( but that's because I'm doing other things to level, NOT just FATEs)

I am in no way telling anyone to do what I do, FATE to your heart contents, just while your doing your FATEs and before you complain, please know that there is other way to level up ( whether they be fast or slow they are there).

In accordance to you, doing no FATEs and playing 1 class to 50 ( 46 being what you have now) over 1 month into the game is not rushing. Your just about ready for 2.1 when more end-game content gets pushed through the pipes.

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There isn't. I've done it all, and doing it for another job would be nothing but endless repetition

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That's how you personally feel about it, in that case I can only suggest you to wait 1 or 2 patches for content to funnel through so you can play your 1 and only job.

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Originally Posted by Klefth

There isn't. I've done it all, and doing it for another job would be nothing but endless repetition. What's next, will you suggest me to create a new character or something?

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He is blinded by the games real problems with his love for it. He doesn't see the glaring problems, the game has a suprisingly small amount of content being that it was refreshed from 1.0(groundwork laid), 50 content should have been their primary concern especially when you make statements like, "The game starts at level 50"

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Originally Posted by Onolock

Fate grinding is the only efficient way to play a 2nd job.

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"Most efficient" rarely equates to the "most entertaining" way to do things. It's really a self-defeating purpose if you grind through content as quickly as possible just to be able to yell "first!" and end up without content and having deprived yourself of other stuff that would have been more fun, had only you taken the time for it.

Is there some sort of real-world one million dollar prize you win when you run out of content in this game that I haven't been told about? Seriously, what's up with the rushing?

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Originally Posted by Starlord

That's how you personally feel about it, in that case I can only suggest you to wait 1 or 2 patches for content to funnel through so you can play your 1 and only job.

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Five, thank you very much. All mostly well-geared, too. And that's only counting DoW/DoM. You do a terrible job at assumptions, man.

Sometimes I do appreciate the myth tombstone cap per a week because it makes me do something else like gathering or eventually crafting. Without a cap there, I would grind the hell out of AK and probably have my +1 in no time and then without nothing to do. But as far as content goes at end game, its just too repetitive and lack variety. I just wished Allowances refreshed much quickly than it currently does.

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Originally Posted by Moirear

"Most efficient" rarely equates to the "most entertaining" way to do things. It's really a self-defeating purpose if you grind through content as quickly as possible just to be able to yell "first!" and end up without content and having deprived yourself of other stuff that would have been more fun, had only you taken the time for it.

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If they made any other efficient way to level, people would do so. The majority of MMO players even casuals will ALWAYS take the most efficient path(ie AK speed runs or CM runs) towards any goal. You are saying why not just run Wanderer's Palace to get full DL? It's not efficient, and makes no sense. Your point that some people might do other things cause it's more fun is silly, I could sit and grind dungeons to 50 and probably take more than 10 times longer to 50 over someone grinding fates. Would you run a business this way? Would you do any aspect of life this way?....So why would you here?