[TIP] If you're going to be an Archer

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Originally Posted by Tua

Reworded slightly: So, if you want me to stop kiting, stop whining, use Provoke and start doing your job.

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You cannot provoke a FATE mob or most regular mobs actually.
So if you run around kiting AND shooting the mob, you make it that much harder for a tank to get the mob off you.

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Originally Posted by Riichi

No melee class can pull off a moving target that is being consistently attacked by it's target.

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You mean bad tanks cant pull back off right? I am not even an archer and I know the class is meant to kite to avoid damage. Sure he would rather the op be a good tank... but we can't always get what we want. I can understand it is a pain to get aggro back under control in fates, but in a dungeon this should never happen. If the bard is using his hate dump, and the tank is doing his job, everything works fine.

In dungeon PUGs I usually tell the tank that if I happen to pull aggro he doesn't need to chase it, I will bring it to him; I do it because it bugs me to see the poor tanks (no doubt taught by bad experiences) running toward the ranged DPS to try to get the mobs off them even as I am running the mob to them. When I say this, most tanks appear to be shocked. That's seriously sad.

As someone who actually plays a tank class, I can honestly say the majority of the posters here do not understand how provoke works, nor how threat generation works.
When you die, your agro goes down to 0.
Provoke, CANNOT be used on mobs in a FATE, they are all fully immune to it.
You CANNOT expect a tank to be capable of pulling a boss, or any mob for that matter, off of a Bard when the Bard insists on continuing their DPS rotation.
It is flat out IMPOSSIBLE to do so if the Bard is even slightly better geared due to the way agro generation works in this game.

Furthermore, even if provoke; by some miracle; does work on the FATE boss, it gives you equal agro to thetop person +1.
So a provoke into shield lob, will NOT be enough to generate enough threat to keep the boss off for a combo.
Typically to do that, it involves a fast blade/heavy swing, into a Provoke + Skull sunder/savage blade combo.
Can't do that though if you're running around with the mob.

Hold threat.

Otherwise I will kite the mob in circles so it doesn't hit me for 50%+ of my max life.

Sincerely,
That archer which makes tanks/melee ragequit the game because I like not dying more than I like them hitting the mob.

I rarely have to kite anything in a normal decent group. I can usually throw up Featherfoot and face tank the mob until it's dead 2 seconds later. The only time I will kite is when I'm doing a big boss FATE that will get me slaughtered in two hits like Gorgimera in Northern Thanalan.

Certain mobs hit really hard like Dullahan's in AK that put up the buff that increases their attack power that I will have to end up kiting if my groups' dps isn't really that high. Sucks for anyone who is melee but I'm not willing to lose my food buff because the tank is too slow to pull it off me.

If i pull aggro ill only kite if i dont trust my tank. If i trust my tank i run to him

if ur in dungeons or primals where adds need to be brought to tank then do so, otherwise the archer is a kiting class. would u rather us just stand there and die shooting? or kite titan around while the rest of the PT is dead and avoid getting hit from said kiting. therefore killing and completing the duty.
archers are made to kite mobs. its in the class. idk of a single mmo where the archer is not supposed to kite ever. this thread has fail written all over it.
when PvP comes out i will be kiting errbody on the damn server.

1/2

As a paladin in fates, I pick the biggest baddest looking thing and keep hitting it in the face until it doesn't care about anyone but me. Usually someone starts throwing heals at me.

As a bard in fates, I tab to purple mobs and watch my agro, pretty easy to not get hate.

As a paladin in dungeons I start the dungeon by telling people what I expect. I mark all mobs and attack them in order, if you peel an off numbered mob off me and you're not the healer you can tank it. I also suggest at the begining if you get agro for some silly reason to run TO me and jump until I get agro back. My paladin dungeon runs are always smooth and efficient.

As a bard in dungeons I follow the tanks lead and make sure my agro never rises about 3/4 of 2. If I get A for some reason I run to the tank, drop target and wait, this is rare though.

2/2

There are a lot of people out there that know how to play their class well.

There are also a lot of people that don't.. If you don't know how to play your class well then learn to play better. Group with me if you like and I'll teach you exactly how you can be the best at what you do with people asking you in tells to join their parties. :)

ttfn

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/4613426/

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Originally Posted by Tenkiei

Hold threat.

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Um...no...threat does not work that way.
A Tank doesn't just run up to a mob, slap it with a combo, and hold threat forever.
The amount of threat built is somewhat larger than a DPS, but not massively so that it becomes a non-issue.
If a BLM or a Brd choose to go nuts and not make any attempt to manage enmity, then they're probably going to die, and they do deserve to die.
The tank can only do so much regarding threat in this game.
It isn't WoW or RIFT or EQ2 where you can just pop threat builders/finishers and then go grab a beer.

Funny, a healer yelled at me for not kiting mobs once. I am so confused now.

Huntards all over again.

If a BRD is kiting a boss it means the tank has either a) died or b) let the situation get out of hand. The brd in question is probably not the only one, once things get this desperate, who is ahead of a tank in aggro (especially in a FATE), so I'd rather deal with the "inconvenience" of slightly limiting the mdps by kiting (and thus making himself an unkillable tank, if he's kiting correctly) and take my time then have him let himself die so all the other dps can wipe and start over.

That being said, a bad BRD is bad, but I don't feel like that's worth mentioning. Bad kiting is bad/Good kiting is good. Bad anything is bad :P

I'll run where I please.

In my case I kite the thing around the tank when he slips up and loses control. Y'know, so he can wail on the thing to regenerate his lost aggro.

>_> I'm kiting because the tank(s) are dead or retarded. Sorry...

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Originally Posted by Leiron

You cannot provoke a FATE mob or most regular mobs actually.
So if you run around kiting AND shooting the mob, you make it that much harder for a tank to get the mob off you.

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I did not know that - now I do, thanks!

This thread amused me. You can tell the good archers/bards from the bad just based on their responses.

Get a better Tank, for the time being I'll be here being awesome repelling all over the place, running and throwing arrows because I'm l33t baby.

If you are kiting it means you are still attacking the mob instead of trying to drop aggro. If you are running in circles without attacking the mob then thats a bit more acceptable.

SON, I pop featherfoot and bind kite. YOU CANT STOP ME.

Fortunately I haven't been paired with a bad tank yet. However I will admit this is my first MMO and online Final Fantasy game and for the first Level 1-30 I had no clue wth I was doing, I would pretty much run away from the monsters attacking me because I didn't know any better, there's no How-to guide on being a DPS character in a FF game attached to the case of the game.

It wasn't until at a later level when someone in my dungeon party chat told me what to do, and what not to do.

Not all the players are experienced like you guys, so have some patience and explain to the DPS ppl their roles and your expectations in chat before starting a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by NZ_Player

the responses from archers only reinforces the preconceived stereotype people have of those that play the class
a combination of that level of mentality coupled together with the fate leveled 'never set foot in an instance, never changed or upgraded gear since level 15, oh, i only have this crafting gear, nothing else' assures my stance of never ever pugging

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Simmer down, tough guy. Up to your post, I don't see a post disagreeing with the OP aside from a single, obviously satirical post.

Seems like you just wanted a thread to be a melodramatic badass in. I guess you found it.

I kite every mob I attack, especially in fates.
What's the point in playing a game if you can't tie a string to an enemy and then run away as they fly up into the air, dipping and diving as you frolic across Eorza?

:D

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Originally Posted by Bardo

I kite every mob I attack, especially in fates.
What's the point in playing a game if you can't tie a string to an enemy and then run away as they fly up into the air, dipping and diving as you frolic across Eorza?

:D

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When they reset after you run too far and troll the whole fate, that part I think.

Not all of us are like what you are saying you know. As someone who has played mmo's for 8-9 years i think i know what i'm doing by now. It's a pity, the same thing happened in WoW as well (Poor Huntards lol). It seems anyone using a bow/gun gets put into one basket. I have met some bloody awful tanks/healers playing but i don't see threads going up about those.

This is the kind of thing that is completely unacceptable if you are in a party. Especially in a dungeon. These things should always be communicated before you begin. It takes all of two seconds. Not everyone is experience at the game or MMOs in general so taking the time to explain what you like/ what fits your play style can alleviate most of the problem.

In a non-groiped FATE, what do you expect people to do? 9 times out of 10, there is 0 communication in FATEs and people need to do what they can to survive. I understand that it makes more sense to go TO the tank rather than run away, but in all seriousness it is sometimes impossible to do that when you are not in a group. If I'm in a boss FATE (I was soloing that huge Coeurl the other night, not Ose), and a BLM runs in and starts nuking everything in sight. I simply shouted "TO ME IF YOU GET AGGRO". Take the time to help people, rather than rage if no one does ecatly what you THINK they should be doing.

I dont do fates so much, but what are the chances I would catch a heal if I did run to the tank? Or am I expected to take a death for the team? What team?

Firing a bow while running is extremely difficult, I've never seen anyone do it with any form of good accuracy. The archers in this game must be demi-gods or something. They never miss at all while hopping and sprinting around in circles.

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Originally Posted by Calypsx

Firing a bow while running is extremely difficult, I've never seen anyone do it with any form of good accuracy. The archers in this game must be demi-gods or something. They never miss at all while hopping and sprinting around in circles.

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Firing a Recurve bows while moving is easy. While running is rough but doable. What really makes them demi-gods is there ability to fire in the opposite direction, open up a worm hole that leads to the mob so the arrow can hit. THAT is what makes them demi-gods. ^^

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Originally Posted by Maku

Firing a Recurve bows while moving is easy. While running is rough but doable. What really makes them demi-gods is there ability to fire in the opposite direction, open up a worm hole that leads to the mob so the arrow can hit. THAT is what makes them demi-gods. ^^

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This is especially amusing with Quick Nock, which always animates in the direction you are facing even if the mobs you are shooting are actually behind you.

Amazing thread, lol
Im with the op, as a tank, i pray god that anyone kills the xxxx archer to reach the mob with my sword... so healers... NEVER heal a jumping Jack archer.

that also remember me.... Tanks, never get agroo from a healer who gets agroo from healing a jumping archer... maybe we'll die, but not jumping lika mads ;P

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Originally Posted by Ysarel

Not necessarily true. If you run in a smaller circle than the kiter and mob then you can keep up and continue to DPS. For a tank it shouldn't matter, Provoke + Tomahawk or Shield Lob and get back to what you were doing.

Don't get me wrong, my first move upon getting hate is usually to move to the tank. But if the tank isn't going to do their job, I'm going to do what I have to do to survive.

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You haven't played a melee class, have you? Also, no, a tomahawk/shield lob after a provoke still isn't enough.

Provoke does not work in FATEs but it isn't needed. There are only three situations in which you can't maintain enmity as a tank in a fate.
1) Being severely undergeared. Tanks are expected to have good gear for anything, including FATEs. If the Bards have amazing gear, then you aren't going to be tanking anything and are pretty useless in damage contribution as well.
2) Getting to the Fate late. This is probably the only excusable thing because its not possible to be first at each one in a large place. People keep running towards the FATE areas ahead of time.
3) You died because there aren't Healers.

In situation 1, players are not going to hold back their dps for easy things like FATEs, and you shouldn't think people are going to stoop down to your level of damage when they aren't even part of the same party.
In situation 3, why would a Bard stand there if there are no healers? No one wants to die, its every man/party for himself. Kiting is easy and MOST mobs can't even touch you, including some bosses. They don't know everyone's enmity in comparison with their own except if the players are in the same party. If there are healers, then you can't trust them if they let the tank die.

If its a dungeon, HOW DO YOU LOSE HATE???? It's ridiculously easy to keep aggro on mobs, especially when you have Flash/Rage of Halone/Overpower/Provoke. You almost always have hate at all times if you are a good tank, and its still possible even when undergeared and players are dpsing hard. The fact that you are losing hate in the first place is your fault unless the most dire of situations happens. The Healer isn't healing you/died.

Fun tip, Bards can solo mobs through kiting. If a healer dies, they make things easier for a tank. If a tank dies, they make things easier for the healer to rez. If both die, they can potentially kill the mobs through kiting alone. If party is dead at chimera, they can kill it solo. Its a winning situation all around. Even the job quests pretty much encourage kiting and watching your surroundings so you don't attract more mobs will doing it.

I see a lot of conjecture and hyperbole from angry people in this thread. In dungeons I can understand when the set routine isn't followed but it's down right silly to expect bards to stand still and meat tank boss fates. No let me correct that, it's down right asinine to expect them to stand still and eat the death so you can go on your marry way happy as a clam. I have seen groups of players leave the poor guys dead on the ground much less try to heal them if ungrouped players happen to gain threat from a boss fate. So please continue coming to the forums to make rage threads about other classes when they don't play to your standards.

On a side note, I will try and work with a tank so he can gain threat on a fate but if he is late in the arriving or dead in the fighting, I'm going to be doing the kiting. Because I'm not taking a dirt nap for you.

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Originally Posted by Hansha

If its a dungeon, HOW DO YOU LOSE HATE???? It's ridiculously easy to keep aggro on mobs, especially when you have Flash/Rage of Halone/Overpower/Provoke. You almost always have hate at all times if you are a good tank, and its still possible even when undergeared and players are dpsing hard. The fact that you are losing hate in the first place is your fault unless the most dire of situations happens. The Healer isn't healing you/died.

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How is it the tank's fault if I pop every buff on my bar but Quelling? Especially if I outgear him a bit?

It would also help if people would watch the hate bar in the group window. Sadly i see a lot of DPS just go in and take the mob off the tank. If you cant play as a group the right way then please do not que.

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Originally Posted by Ephraim

For the love of God, stop running around like you're a chicken with it's head cut off and tank the bloody mob!

I swear, you are making matters worse by running around trying to kite the stupid thing instead of standing there and letting people wail on it! Hell, I guarantee that it'll be a hell lot easier for a tank to take hate off of you!

Why make life more difficult if you continue being stupid? I watched an Archer run around, kiting the Cancer FATE and refusing to pull the bloody thing away from the mob respawns. In the process, he killed eight people due to pops/aggro.

Oh, that reminds me.

If you're a healer and you see an Archer kiting a mob like an idiot, let them die so someone with an ounce of common sense can tank it!

Thank you.

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QQ? if the tank knew how to tank, I wouldn't pull threat and HAVE TO KITE THE STUPID THING AROUND! kma sir!

As an archer, if i initiate the fight I will run in circles until there is a dedicated healer putting the heals on. If I can't survive the damage and it comes faster than what the mage can cure for, then I'm running. If there's a tank, I won't pull hate off of it. If I do, I'll stop shooting and hold still for about 10 seconds. By then I'm either dead or the tank has hate back. Unfortunately, most of the bards that need to hear this are the type that also do not visit the forums, and/or do not care to make themselves better players by reading up on the various knowledge and discussions online here.

I play an archer in my down time. It's fun!

I also see a lot of archers soloing and I love to sit and laugh at them. "Why do they run around like that?" I think to myself.

I don't see the need to run around. Maybe it's because I learned to tank first and it's my instinct to stand there and take it. But as archer, I have cure, I use it. Couple arrows, cast a cure, couple more, dodge the AoE... repeat.

I was WHM in a FATE yesterday, something about "eyes" in Dragonhead area. Idiot archer took aggro and proceeded to dance. Maybe this is why archer leads to bard, they need a little music to go with the dancing?

Masha