FFXIV: ARR becoming TORtanic

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Originally Posted by Miiu

Tera when it got to us was already released in Korea for about or over a year. Just fyi. FFXI had no pvp until its 5th(not quite sure) year running. And that game is still around 12 years later. I didn't do any crafting yet but from what I saw I'm pretty sad that they got rid of the stuff that made ffxi crafting interesting like certain days that benefit certain crystals or the direction you are facing. But well that can be seen as a gimmick and like I said I have no experience crafting in this game.
But all in all what they did in 1 year is quite impressive and if that is any indication of things to come I'm not really worried.

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just to point this out, you can't remove that which never exisited... Even SE confirmed that this was a myth spurred on by confirmation bias in players.

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Originally Posted by Raxion

Well forgive me. I didn't know you were the voice of the majority of MMO gamers....

I couldn't care less about PvP. The only "socializing" that goes on in PvP is along the lines of, "WTF noob ass loser, you couldn't kill that guy?" "Please kill yourself." "STFU noob, I'm in the top 10 on my main" "You guys suck so hard, AFK."

Leveling a craft wasn't "fun" but it was ungodly simple. I got Goldsmith from 1-50 in 2 days by farming leves.

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The reality of the current MMO landscape is that an MMO can exist without crafting, but it can not exist without PVP, you said it yourself, crafting wasn't fun, the degree of its simplicity or complexity is irrelevant, the point is that crafting isn't fun and downright boring, Many would rather clash swords with another player than carry a pickaxe

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Originally Posted by Juubi

I hope Square Enix remembers that first impressions last and hope they won't regret that these game deficiencies won't be solved too little too late like SWTOR did.

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If all first impressions lasted, no MMO would survive its first Beta. None. Nor would any MMO survive its first month of launch. Even WoW had hiccups like this, some of them far worse. Like, servers crashing for weeks bad -- every time there's an expansion, and sometimes every patch.

You deal with it, stick with it, and stop whining on the message boards and learn a little perspective. You hold out your hand and say "Whoa there! Learn from how all the other MMOs that 'made it' dealt with these issues, and -- like Samuel L. Jackson said -- 'calm the f**k down.'"

Not all games get vanity or fashion items on launch, but this game had them. The Cascadia "swimsuit" gear is vanity/fashion, as are the Odin/Behemoth gears. Some of the actual dungeon drops, like the Sugarloaf hat, are silly looking, and are certainly treated as such. Getting a red one, put it on a bearded Lalafell, and instant Gnome!

Some of your other points are just as non-issues:
1. WoW still has "terrible" queues for many classes, with tanks having instant, healers having minutes-long, and DPS up to or exceeding an hour. Dealt with this from launch to a few months ago with TERA, and it was still the same. Was in WoW for years, and it didn't change from BC through WotLK and into Cata. DEAL WITH IT.

2. Your fees used to be worse; they were made better with an update. Now, you have to do a few FATEs or sell a grade II materia and you're back to normal. I had to fully repair my Monk gear after Amdapor in which I'd forgotten it was near broke, and it cost me 1000 gil, so I went out and earned it all back.

3. Monsters shouldn't drop anything but crafting materials. Especially gil. That material MAKES gil. Frankly, I'd love it if you had to work at it for drops, like WoW does where you have to skin the bloody things for hide, and if you can't, no hide. Monster Hunter had a fine system whereby all of your gear was crafted by killing/gathering, but that game is based around their gear; this one isn't. (Don't you shake your head at me.)

4. New quests will come in, including daily reset "normal" quests. However, Leves are not "too little," and many reward additional items which FATEs do not. Speaking from someone who just pushed Lancer up from 22 to 32 on the way to get Blood for Blood in the last few days, I was plenty fine with doing FATEs and filling my hunting log for experience. You can also spend time and farm some of the mobs that drop useful items, like karakul for fleece. If you can't find a way to level, then you're not looking hard enough. And while FATE-grinding can be mindless, I don't do it in parties: I do it solo/duo so my effort and my reward are my own, no milking of others and no following the herd. Pull out your Chocobo, and try to aim for some choco-xp.

5. I don't know about you, but I immensely enjoy crafting. I am not a "press a button and BING! pull it out of the oven" kinda guy. I make what I need as a Goldsmith, can make plenty money this way, and spent many a sweaty minute trying to make expensive HQ material into lucrative HQ products. Playing the quality game and having enough time and CP to complete the progress? That's not as easy as you might think at the higher levels. This is especially true if you're not picking up cross-class skills for crafts, and some of them that are VERY good (like Tricks of the Trade) are deep within other crafts.

6. We were told PvP wouldn't be at launch in Beta, and we were told it was coming in the next patch in just a few months. You had TWO MONTHS to wait. Why the whining? (Also, PvP was the about only thing there was to do that was at all functional in SWTOR.)

7. I will admit I despise tome-farming, too. However, I am not pushing myself for it. I am taking my time. This does mean that friends of mine are passing me by, but I have the benefit of a FC that will come with me and help me out get tomes of any time I want. I run Praetorium for fun, and enjoy it a lot; the music especially, and Ultima Weapon 2 the most (also, dancing with Nero). I despise AK with a passion, but do it anyway because eventually I will get the 900 myth tomes and with them get my relic +1, and then any need for myth later down the road (AF2) can come when I darn well please.

So step back a bit, and evaluate why you're posting this list of horrors. Are you trying to troll, sabotage other people's enjoyment? If so, gtfo. But if not, think THINK about what you're doing, and consider that maybe -- just maybe -- your perspective is a little askew. As Fangorn says, "Don't be hasty."

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Originally Posted by Juubi

I can name you a myriad of mmos: Ragnarok Online, Rising Force Online, Tera Online and a dozen more Korean mmos


The White Knights are already defending their masters I see

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Rising Force Online had one thing to do at launch. Sit in town and grind up your buffs for hours and hours and hours. Perhaps you didn't play when the game released in the NA? From what I remember you couldn't even get to 50 legitimately (which was the max level) until a year after the game released. Don't even talk about PvP. If you weren't either 1) Accretian or 2) able to trive a black MAU you couldn't pvp.

Tera Online had two dungeons to run at endgame when it came out. If you try to say there was pvp battlegrounds don't because that came almost 6 months after release after they absolutely destroyed what endgame they had by changing the drop rate on the items to 100% on every boss.

Ragnarok was an awful game for 12 year olds pretending to play mmos.

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Originally Posted by SugarUnicorn

If you think level 2s were trying to +12 masterwork their gear, then you're the one who probably should have actually leveled beyond 2.

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Then you were a terribad if all you did was hit one button over and over. Not a single class played that way beyond the first five levels.


As for the RO dude..

HAHAHAHA. You don't consider killing the same monster 1 million times to get 10% experience to be slow and tedious? Wow just wow. Then again you think a little glowing aura is some sort of a meaningful reward which is loltastic in it's own. No I found winning matches to be rewarding. I found winning WOEs and GD fights to be rewarding not killing the same dumb (litterly as there was no real AI or any skills used) NPC over and over for +40 hours. Most of the cards were worthless anyway.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

- No PvP upon launch (even SWTOR had PvP on Launch)

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And? It's coming in patch 2.1.

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- Little Post-Game Stuff to do (AK,CP Runs, Long Duty Finder Queue, Tomes Farming)
Very boring and repetitive stuff.

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Coil of Bahamut, Relic weapon quest, AK, CM, WP (if you want one of the shields), Odin, Behemoth, farming Garuda and Titan HM for weapons. Plenty of stuff to do, though the extra dungeons and stuff in patch 2.1 will really improve it.

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- Little incentive to do a max level alt class, leveling them is entirely dependent
Upon mindless Fates grinding and minuscule leve quests, seriously why shouldn't
former low lvl quests reset for a low level alt?

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Why do you need an NPC to tell you to do the same thing you'd do during a FATE? I've never understood "questers". What's the difference between killing 10 mobs because there's a dynamic quest there, and killing 10 mobs because an NPC told you to do it? And if you don't want to FATE, then you can do dungeons, leves, or guildhest. With completion bonuses, it's still good XP.

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- I think Crafting is very boring and inconsequential and I have no interest
In wasting my time crafting wherein I could be doing something else I find fun

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Fixed. Many of us actually enjoy crafting, and we can make some very, very good gear at 50.

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- Worthless monster drops that give nothing but stupid crafting materials

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You do realize you can sell those "stupid crafting materials" for money, right?

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- Very hard to accumulate Gil in this game because monster loot sucks.

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Not at all. It's actually very easy to make money in this game. It's only hard for people who do nothing but run dungeons.

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- No server transfers upon launch

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Yeah, that's normal. They're waiting until the end of the free month to weed out the MMO hoppers that won't be subscribing. No use letting people who won't even be playing take up character slots on the server.

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- Terrible Instance Dungeon queues in Duty Finder

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Don't play DPS. You're crying over something that is entirely your fault. DPS queues are ALWAYS the longest in MMOs because 80% of players are DPS and there's not enough healers or tanks to give them all spots.

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- No vanity/fashion items upon launch

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And? Why are you so impatient to walk around dungeons in your swimsuit? It's coming in either patch 2.1 or 2.2. The vanity system was completed before launch, but they haven't had a chance to implement it yet.

I enjoy my month of playing already. See more enjoyment to come.

If the game is this broken maybe it isn't right for you at this time and you should think about trying it again in 2-3 patches.
Most MMO take 3-5 years to make. SE Failed and rebuilt from basically ground up in 1 year give credit where credit is due.

The game is already 100 time more playable then 1.xx and I just see it getting better.

I do agree with some thing you have said. But other I don't.
I HATE PvP.
I don't know why you need to have millions of gil.
Vanity slot WTF does this do for game play.
Who did you piss off on your server that you need to leave already. If leveling is so fast go start a new character on the server with your friends.

My biggest problems with FFXIV currently is RMT spamming.
Teleport hacks.

Looking at issues FFXI, and FFXIV 1.xx had. I believe SE has over come many of the issues. I look forward to what they can give in years to come.

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Originally Posted by Meleoffs

Rising Force Online had one thing to do at launch. Sit in town and grind up your buffs for hours and hours and hours. Perhaps you didn't play when the game released in the NA? From what I remember you couldn't even get to 50 legitimately (which was the max level) until a year after the game released.

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It would seem you have conveniently failed to mention that RF had open world pvp, not to mention scheduled chip wars wherein the three factions would battle each other out for the chance to acquire the coveted talics from the Ores found in the Holy Stone Keeper's mines, the rush of adrenaline wherein you can raid enemy races farming spots or if you are being raided: teaming up together to stop the invaders, that is fun.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

- No PvP upon launch (even SWTOR had PvP on Launch)

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PvP with the current latency the game has? Have a nice time hitting moving players.

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Originally Posted by Tool_of_Society

Most of the cards were worthless anyway.

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Ha, yeah. You could always go and kill defenseless Pupas all day for that +700 HP, lol. Then there was the endless bitching about kill-stealing. 'Course, the guy on the other end couldn't hear the cries because he was using a bot.

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Originally Posted by Tool_of_Society

Then you were a terribad if all you did was hit one button over and over. Not a single class played that way beyond the first five levels.

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Do you have reading comprehension problems? I was talking about masterworking -- where yes, you sat and spammed one button over and over, desperately hoping that the 473rd attempt might be the +9 or +12. Try to actually read what you're replying to next time before getting snarky and acting like a child.

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Originally Posted by aswedishtiger

CM AK CM AK CM AK CM AK

yep pretty much 2!!! well 1 if you're capped on mythology. nice fail try though!

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I pointed out others. Sorry you ignored them. Prae is there. You can do prae if you're bored of the monotony. You told me, "Nice fail try." So Ifrit doesn't exist? Garuda doesn't exist? Titan doesn't exist? Relic quest doesn't exist? Prae doesn't exist? Coils doesn't exist? Why are you only running two dungeons? There's more to do. Get in a FC and get to it. All I'm reading is "There's not much content in FFXIV because I refuse to do any of the other content."

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Originally Posted by Juubi

It would seem you have conveniently failed to mention that RF had open world pvp, not to mention scheduled chip wars wherein the three factions would battle each other out for the chance to acquire the coveted talics from the Ores found in the Holy Stone Keeper's mines, the rush of adrenaline wherein you can raid enemy races farming spots or if you are being raided: teaming up together to stop the invaders, that is fun.

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And an item mall that made me able to become the most powerful character in the game by simply paying them.

RF Online was other than that a very good PvP game. Much better than GW2 in my opinion. However comparing a PvE game to a PvP game is like comparing an online game to a single-player game: pointless; two very different types of games.

GW2 has like 8+ 'instances' on launch that scales and they continue to add new stuff on a quick/regular intervals. Not to mention lots of major world events, story line arcs, new content regularly, and WvW/SPvP.

Only problem is there is no trinity; if it had it, I honestly would be playing that instead.

I hope that they will add many 4 mans and larger dungeons b/c right now it's really bare bones. Time after time the lack of things to do at cap has made more MMOs 'fail' than I could list.

Also I really hope they have an 'Alterac Valley' or "World vs World vs World" type venue(s)...mass, consensual PvP like that has proven to keep me interested for quite a long time. The 4v4 mode they are bringing in is just a WoW arena by looks of things so it does not interest me in the least. That or at very least 16 v 16? I know the game can handle it after being in large fate zergs...

Anyways, I did not really 'rush'; I read every quest dialogue, watched all the cut scenes, and leveled first class mostly via quests...I only resorted to fate grinding when there was no option left. "End game" here is extremely limited atm and compared to other launches quite light on content imo. Running AK a billion times and knowing there is no other choice makes me grumpy so sorry if my opinion upsets people.

A game's deficiencies should not be defended, it should be pointed out, to defend a game's faults is the mortal sin of any true gamer and serves not a wit for the overall betterment and longevity of a game/mmo

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Originally Posted by Juubi

The reality of the current MMO landscape is that an MMO can exist without crafting, but it can not exist without PVP, you said it yourself, crafting wasn't fun, the degree of its simplicity or complexity is irrelevant, the point is that crafting isn't fun and downright boring, Many would rather clash swords with another player than carry a pickaxe

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So because you, personally, don't have the attention-span to level a crafting class, it shouldn't exist at all?

Mind...blown.






You really need to stick to those F2P Korean grind-fests.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

It would seem you have conveniently failed to mention that RF had open world pvp, not to mention scheduled chip wars wherein the three factions would battle each other out for the chance to acquire the coveted talics from the Ores found in the Holy Stone Keeper's mines, the rush of adrenaline wherein you can raid enemy races farming spots or if you are being raided: teaming up together to stop the invaders, that is fun.

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Except unless you were accretian you never won your chip wars or open world pvp because the game was horrendously unbalanced.

I'm talking giga 3, almost 5 years ago when the game was released in the US and the absolute highest level I'd ever seen anyone up to a year after release was 45 because no zone above level 40 was in the game and they spent all of their time day in and day out killing the same mob for .0001% of their level...

I remember all of 10 people being level 45 on my server.

The extremely vocal minority screaming doom-and-gloom on these forums is getting so obnoxious.

I was going to write out all the counter-points to your complaints but people have already done that. But I do have to defend crafting and the way monster drops work in FFXIV:


- Crafting seems a little slow but I don't think it's boring at all. I'm having an amazing time listening to incredible, hilarious free podcasts like Professor Blastoff and leveling multiple crafts to 50. Plus, it's not inconsequential in the least. It may not make the very-tippy-top tier armor in the game, but you can make extremely good armor and weapons and bypass a LOT of the endgame dungeon grind you're so upset about. Not to mention I easily make tons of gil from crafting.

With smart use of leves, crafting is nice and fast to level. With smart use of the market boards, it's not inconsequential in the least.


- A lot of monster-dropped crafting materials are very valuable. With a little smarts and the wherewithal to know how to check the market boards, you can make TONS of gil just from monster drops. I personally LOVE that random animals and monsters don't poop out swords and stuff in this game. There is no real "vendor trash" outside of optional quest gil rewards. Items are actually meaningful.


You do bring up a few legit issues. But if you have a little creativity or patience, none of these things are really big issues. Yeah, FFXIV isn't perfect but I think it's way better than people are claiming.

You might call me a white knight, but I was on these forums complaining about ARR's flaws when the game launched because the early stages of ARR actually weren't as good as the early stages of 1.0. (Worse cutscenes, too many lame mandatory quests to unlock essential parts of the game, etc.) But the more I've played ARR, the more I've come to appreciate all the amazing parts of this game that a FATE-grinder/dungeon-DF-grinder probably wouldn't notice. This game is really amazing. It deviates from a bunch of MMO standards in interesting ways that I love, but not everyone will understand or appreciate.

I hope all the players with no patience or disposition to appreciate all FFXIV has to offer will quit soon, for the community's sake.

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Originally Posted by Raxion

What endgame did GW2 have? All you did was grind Citadel of Flame until your eyes bled. After you got the gear from that, all you had left to do was run around low-level maps and do the SAME EXACT THING you were doing at level 1. GW2 gameplay was mind-numbingly repetitive.

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'Things to do' does not mean 'endgame'.

WvWvW was always there. Eight flavors of crafting ACTUALLY USEFUL things was there. Dungeons, if you could stomach their imbalances, were there. Legendary crafting was always there, if you wanted an epic grind to make all those CoF runs and world completion, etcetera, actually worth something.

Now, if you classify endgame as 'there wasn't a gear treadmill for me to get on', then no. It had no endgame. It has more game. There are treadmills to craft legendaries if you want a treadmill. Crafting rare exotics is less of a treadmill, but still there if the legendary grind is too much to swallow.

Oh, you didn't actually mean anything but 'it didn't have raids' when you said 'it had no endgame'. Hahahahaha. No, no it didn't. Its not a raidy gear treadmill game. I can understand your confusion and malaise though; almost every MMO is a series of treadmills, whereas GW2 is, quite literally, not.

But no worries, its turning into one. More and more treadmills are creeping in, just for you, with all the ascended stuff.

Treadmills: the cheap, easy way to keep morons busy. Not very much fun, but hey...were you stupid enough to grind CoF until your eyes bled?

If so...wealp. They apparently have you figured out then, don't they.

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Originally Posted by Reslin

I pointed out others. Sorry you ignored them. Prae is there. You can do prae if you're bored of the monotony. You told me, "Nice fail try." So Ifrit doesn't exist? Garuda doesn't exist? Titan doesn't exist? Relic quest doesn't exist? Prae doesn't exist? Coils doesn't exist? Why are you only running two dungeons? There's more to do. Get in a FC and get to it. All I'm reading is "There's not much content in FFXIV because I refuse to do any of the other content."

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She (he? maybe more likely) would rather afk through CM than work for it in Praetorium. You can sit there youtubing, wanking it, or some other such while afk'ing in CM. Maybe she (he?) spends more of her (his?) energy in AK and feels that the mindlessness of CM is the only relevant task. Me, I switch to another class and do something else. Make some money, spend time helping my FC and friends, etc.

I don't see why people keep coming here if they find so many more values in other games.
Anyway, leaving the thread because it's too visual impaired friendly and annoying to read.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

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No PvP = A definite fault even if people say it isn't. It's coming in patch 2.1. So you're crying about something that's going to be implemented.
Crafting = Boring. Subjective. A lot of my friends prefer crafting in this as opposed to crafting in other mmo's.
Little to do at end game = Subjective. There's already everything I listed. In patch 2.1 two new hardmodes, extreme modes, crystal tower, and another part of coils. In the first big patch many of this is being corrected.
Hard to make gil = Another thing fixed in 2.1. They mentioned housing and that they're going to add in ways that you could make money and save up for a house.

Here's the problem. You want people to be negative and complain about things that are getting fixed. Wait, if they're going to be fixed why do we need to continue to complain about it?

I mean what you're doing is the equivalent of someone asking for a raise. They complain they've been working at their job long enough that they should be entitled to more compensation. The boss agrees and gives them the raise. The boss states that their new paycheck will provide them with more cash. The person continues to scream "I WANT A RAISE I WANT A RAISE I WANT A RAISE" even after he's been told he's getting one.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

A game's deficiencies should not be defended, it should be pointed out, to defend a game's faults is the mortal sin of any true gamer and serves not a wit for the overall betterment and longevity of a game/mmo

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Your quoted "deficiencies" aren't even that, though. They're aspects of the game that mildly inconvenience you, personally

Your opinion of a deficiency could be another person's opinion of fun. What's knocking around in that head of yours isn't the all-to law of the world. Just because you think things like crafting are dumb and boring, and think that an MMO NEEDS PvP, that doesn't mean that's how it really is.

Core example: They could cut the idea of PvP from the game altogether, and I wouldn't even sigh. They could release 2-3 more crafting classes, and I'd probably end up leveling one of them. They could make gil harder to obtain in the game, and I'd still be rich as hell.

Your experience is your experience, not the law of the world.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

A game's deficiencies should not be defended, it should be pointed out[/B], to defend a game's faults is the mortal sin of any true gamer and serves not a wit for the overall betterment and longevity of a game/mmo

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You need to have correctly pointed out a deficiency to qualify it as such. You've pointed out a few, but most of what you pointed to are non-issues. They are either true of all MMOs, in which case the specific argument against FFXIV:ARR fails, or they were planned advancement that you either overlooked or ignored. You just didn't do the research, or you're trolling.

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Originally Posted by Reslin

No PvP = A definite fault even if people say it isn't. It's coming in patch 2.1. So you're crying about something that's going to be implemented.

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Eh, I'll be honest -- I find the lack of PvP to be a big plus. I simply dont find it interesting in MMOs, and am tired of seeing class balance and PvE gameplay get continuously thrown to the wolves in favor of appeasing the never satisfied pvp crowd. See: WoW and the never-ending nerfs to PvE class performance for the sake of arena. Big turnoff, and I'm glad its not a worry in FFXIV right now.

You're asking for pvp when you don't have the cross-abilities of other classes to complement your setup of your Job. Not even going to ask about optimizing yourself.

Even if the game is in a pve state, you still want to better yourself in killing things faster and more efficiently, even on AI. I can't even take you seriously about pvp if you don't even
bother going out of your comfort zone to pick out other classes and learning more about other Jobs.

That does not make sense. Unless you like the challenge of fighting with one hand behind your back all the time, that's it seems like to me with the way you talk but from I see
on your progression, it's not really the same factors.

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Originally Posted by SugarUnicorn

Eh, I'll be honest -- I find the lack of PvP to be a big plus. I simply dont find it interesting in MMOs, and am tired of seeing class balance and PvE gameplay get continuously thrown to the wolves in favor of appeasing the never satisfied pvp crowd. See: WoW and the never-ending nerfs to PvE class performance for the sake of arena. Big turnoff, and I'm glad its not a worry in FFXIV right now.

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No worries about that here. They're fixing that. PvP only abilities/skills. Meaning that certain skills deemed "too strong" will be labeled "pve skills" and be unusable in pvp. Meanwhile certain "pvp skills" will be unusable in pve. So one won't be touching the other.

It is the sign of an MMO's decadence when some players are even defending the technical deficiencies of an MMO, others here are even defending the lack of appropriate instance dungeon server capacity saying "it's not SE's fault they didn't expect all 50s are queuing for AK" well if the devs would have made other dungeons viable to farm Myths this wouldn't be a problem now would it?

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Originally Posted by Vaen

The extremely vocal minority screaming doom-and-gloom on these forums is getting so obnoxious.

<<Irrelevant anecdotes here>>

I hope all the players with no patience or disposition to appreciate all FFXIV has to offer will quit soon, for the community's sake.

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You'll probably get your wish, bleater. Just like the wailing little chorus bleating the same thing in 1.0's betas and early days got their wish. Just like SWTOR's bleaters got their wish.

Those that would not suffer their patience to be tested or had no disposition to appreciate all that 1.0 or SWTOR, in either hand, had to offer...left. Not for any concern upon the communities; dear me no. They went elsewhere.

I bet you could find some evidence somewhere on the internet as to how that went for 1.0 and SWTOR alike.

Spoiler Alert: It went catastrophically. FFXIV 1.0 had to be rebuilt because it sucked so bad they couldn't even get Korean grind lovers to sub in droves enough to make it profitable, and SW "Never gonna go F2P" TOR went F2P because it was either that or get axed entirely.

Its nice that you're having fun though. I had fun doing dungeons, when I could get into them, myself. Crafting is boring as hell to me on here, though I don't think its garbage; its just not my bag and I'm kinda glad its largely irrelevant to my interests.

Gathering isn't bad at all. Its very restive and relaxing, in that weird way playing Angry Birds is to me.

That's all completely and totally irrelevant, by the way, to whether or not this game's going to sink or swim. I guarantee you that next to nobody in any store anywhere, or on any part of the internet, is going to see so much as a banner ad for FFXIV: ARR and go "OMG, A FINAL FANTASY GAME, I WANT TO CRAFT AND FARM TREES IN IT"

No final fantasy fan in the history of ever is going to look forward to a final fantasy game because they wanted to craft stuff. They just aren't. Its not the core game, and it is utterly irrelevant to what the name 'Final Fantasy' references in the collective consciousness of the entire market.

People will, in great majority, be wanting to play FFXIV:ARR with the expectation that they will be playing a game that is a Final Fantasy game, with a dramatic storyline, great music, giant bosses and lots and lots of neat character development. They will, in great majority, be wanting to go on an adventure and be part of a story.

The main story attempts to do this. A lot of the grind in the first half of the game is, in fact, a-ok. A lot of Final Fantasy games found one running around in circles on the overworld map, beating up monsters a bit more often than was strictly necessary, because you WANTED a few more levels and more gil and to build up more points on this, or get that job up some, etc, etc, etc.

But you were never forced to. I can't think of a single Final Fantasy game where I was ever once forced to run around in circles and mindlessly farm random encounters to get to and beat the end boss. I also can't think of a Final Fantasy wherein which I didn't want to do every farking thing there was, because it was all neat.

XIV:ARR? I find myself feeling very uninterested in not only trying to level a second combat class, but even from making an alt despite the fact that we can technically level everything on one character. I've seen the main story now; its not very good. Its not terrible, but being bluntly honest here?

Its about as much story as one might find in the first two hours of a normal Final Fantasy game. None of it feels even remotely Final Fantasy dramatic; it feels very shallow.

Who the hell is Minfilia and why do I care, for example? She's just some lady who's in charge of this organization I'm a part of, and I'm supposed to...care...why?

I've never really found myself so alienated from the story before in a Final Fantasy game, and a big part of that is that there were huge chunks of grinding and seeing nothing relevant to the main story throughout all of it.

It wasn't bad. It just wasn't there most of the time. Most of the time, I was doing quests (until I ran out of those), and those were fine, but they were just fluff quests. Great stuff this game needs a lot more of, but still filler; not the meat or the potatoes.

The meat and potatoes; the main attraction; the event in the center ring? Its amazingly great and you're right in the thick of it...until you have to do three dungeons in a row to advance it what so ever. That's when the story lost me, personally, because as a DPS, I wound up stuck for days and days and days, looking for an FC to join whilst loitering in the abyss that is the DPS dungeon queue.

Eventually, I found an FC with folks in it that would help with those and got them done. I was very persistent in that search, however. Much moreso than most normal, largely casual gamers will be. The story never really kept me after that. It wasn't there most of the time, and was there less and less often the higher in level I got, and the more I had to focus on other things that had nothing to do with it.

he don't even mention the stuff that bothers me the most why i won't sub either mainly cause i don't like the classes in this game

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Originally Posted by Juubi

It is the sign of an MMO's decadence when some players are even defending the technical deficiencies of an MMO, others here are even defending the lack of appropriate instance dungeon server capacity saying "it's not SE's fault they didn't expect all 50s are queuing for AK" well if the devs would have made other dungeons viable to farm Myths this wouldn't be a problem now would it?

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"Here is your raise."

I WANT A RAISE I WANT A RAISE I WANT A RAISE.

You still continue.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

It is the sign of an MMO's decadence when some players are even defending the technical deficiencies of an MMO, others here are even defending the lack of appropriate instance dungeon server capacity saying "it's not SE's fault they didn't expect all 50s are queuing for AK" well if the devs would have made other dungeons viable to farm Myths this wouldn't be a problem now would it?

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Another thing you brought up that's being fixed. Look, everything you're complaining about is fixed in patch 2.1. What are you asking/complaining about? We don't even know what you want. All your complaints become nill in 2.1

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Originally Posted by Sove92

PvP with the current latency the game has? Have a nice time hitting moving players.

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omggg, have fun hitting bards >< you know... since they can move AND attck! i can see it now, bards will be the strongest in PvP till they nerf it :s

The deficiencies that I have pointed out of this MMO are common complaints every FFXIV:ARR player knows concerning this game and one has to be in terrible denial not to acknowledge them like denying the elephant in the room.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

The deficiencies that I have pointed out of this MMO are common complaints concerning this game and one has to be in terrible denial not to acknowledge them like denying the elephant in the room.

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What deficiencies? You haven't pointed any out. You won't even refute anyone's points. Lol, you don't even know what you're talking about. You're completely lost because you have no points. You don't even know what you're typing anymore. You already acknowledged in your first post that you have no complaints about the game and that there's nothing you dislike about it.

close the door on his imaginary pointless fit and end this thread. virtually every "worthless items" you npc is worth something to another craft so you throw away thousands of gil. you have nothing cause you earn nothing and no amount of vanity items will solve that

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Originally Posted by SugarUnicorn

See: WoW and the never-ending nerfs to PvE class performance for the sake of arena.

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This is somewhat inaccurate. The reason blizzard obsessed on arena was because it was trying to break into e-sports hoping to cash in on things like promotions, tournaments and so on. It was money thing; they didn't really care for the PvP'ers.

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Originally Posted by Chrysania

'Things to do' does not mean 'endgame'.

WvWvW was always there. Eight flavors of crafting ACTUALLY USEFUL things was there. Dungeons, if you could stomach their imbalances, were there. Legendary crafting was always there, if you wanted an epic grind to make all those CoF runs and world completion, etcetera, actually worth something.

Now, if you classify endgame as 'there wasn't a gear treadmill for me to get on', then no. It had no endgame. It has more game. There are treadmills to craft legendaries if you want a treadmill. Crafting rare exotics is less of a treadmill, but still there if the legendary grind is too much to swallow.

Oh, you didn't actually mean anything but 'it didn't have raids' when you said 'it had no endgame'. Hahahahaha. No, no it didn't. Its not a raidy gear treadmill game. I can understand your confusion and malaise though; almost every MMO is a series of treadmills, whereas GW2 is, quite literally, not.

But no worries, its turning into one. More and more treadmills are creeping in, just for you, with all the ascended stuff.

Treadmills: the cheap, easy way to keep morons busy. Not very much fun, but hey...were you stupid enough to grind CoF until your eyes bled?

If so...wealp. They apparently have you figured out then, don't they.

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I love your tone. You speak as though I care even a small bit about that forgotten disaster.

I also love how you claim that a lack of content is, within itself, a plethora of content. (And you say I'm the stupid one.)

GW2 was a game designed around the hope that people would enjoy doing nothing but running around in the world doing absolutely nothing. That's why it was a flop.

WvWvW was nothing more than a one-sided collection of poor souls trying to find fun in that boring-as-hell game.

I also couldn't give a damn less what they plan on implementing into that disaster. It's trash now, and it'll be trash afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

A game's deficiencies should not be defended, it should be pointed out, to defend a game's faults is the mortal sin of any true gamer and serves not a wit for the overall betterment and longevity of a game/mmo

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Are you serious?

Considering the deficiencies stem from your own opinion of what the game should be like, I think with can disregard your list of 'problems'.

The lack of PVP is not a deficiency. Do you really think with the lack of maturity in the end-game, PVP is going to be anything more than a **** measuring contest between petulant teenagers? More to the point, it doesn't suit the lore or the tone of the game. Why on earth would people kill each other for sport when they've got a common enemy? It's like the Mass Effect 3 multi-player; players fought enemies, not each other.

And the DoH and DoL classes are the best part of the game for many people. My highest class is Fisher, for example. There are linkshells entirely devoted to fishing and crafting. Considering that most people suffer with the Duty Finder, it's easy to see why people would seek alternatives to endless combat.

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Originally Posted by Pandastirfry

just to point this out, you can't remove that which never exisited... Even SE confirmed that this was a myth spurred on by confirmation bias in players.

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Really? I seem to have been more out of the loop than I thought I was. Thanks for correcting me!