Normal editor tools. When?

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Originally Posted by Solowing

Its the friction that gives the game flavor.

You room didn't use vertical space, but it never needed to It was rock solid even as a single floor, but if you wanted to get into housing advanced. It was a meta-game you had to learn. Indirectly creating depth to the system. When it takes far less time to lock in a design, they spend far less time in the housing space, for most of the players.

You taking longer and spending more time in the Ward Housing, its doing its job exactly as the system designed to kill your time is supposed to.

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Originally Posted by Solowing

You arnt wrong in asking for it. But you lose something in that, something that the game forces onto you if you want to master the system. Creativity.

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Floating a partition using a glitch and floating it using a Y-axis tool are equal in creativity. Neither required you to create anything, the only difference is one is incredibly tedious and wastes hours of your time. Adding free item movement for housing would only make people more creative since more people would be able to realize their creative vision without jumping through arbitrary hoops. Your point about friction makes sense when it comes to things like boss battles or job design, but it makes zero sense concerning floating furnishings.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Floating a partition using a glitch and floating it using a Y-axis tool are equal in creativity. Neither required you to create anything, the only difference is one is incredibly tedious and wastes hours of your time. Adding free item movement for housing would only make people more creative since more people would be able to realize their creative vision without jumping through arbitrary hoops. Your point about friction makes sense when it comes to things like boss battles or job design, but it makes zero sense concerning floating furnishings.

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Actually , would make you less creative since you're taking out some of the thought process. It's basically like giving you a calculator. There's no reason to learn how to do math in your head.When you can offload it to something that does it automatically..

If I were to ask you to make a plot without the housing z axis and one with the z axis. Your designs would be entirely different. The limitations through the system would force you to adapt and try to find an alternate route around.And in doing so , you create emergent designs. That difficulty is make you spend time on a design and think about it.

The friction does give it character as well.Because when I look at a plot , I can see what work went into it. But with the z axis that effort bar is removed. I\nLike seeing the levels of flavor and investment in willingness to learn the system to really make the most of it.

Like I said, I'm fine with them, adding it in the make it more accessible, but you do lose something in it.And to say that , you don't is untrue. It's like automating , a job that you're used to normally doing with your hands. It becomes a lost skill using the ability to think outside the box

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Originally Posted by Solowing

Actually , would make you less creative since you're taking out some of the thought process. It's basically like giving you a calculator. There's no reason to learn how to do math in your head.When you can offload it to something that does it automatically..

If I were to ask you to make a plot without the housing z axis and one with the z axis. Your designs would be entirely different. The limitations through the system would force you to adapt and try to find an alternate route around.And in doing so , you create emergent designs. That difficulty is make you spend time on a design and think about it.

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Building with or without the Z-axis would result in entirely different designs because it's an entirely different set of circumstances which by their nature lock you out of certain end results.

Slowly floating something using a glitch over a long period of time and floating it immediately with a tool that lets you do so in seconds results in exactly the same thing. The only difference is one is a giant pain in the ass.

There is no "emergent design" between doing Thing A and doing Thing B, where Thing B is just Thing A but it takes an order of magnitude longer. You're not "finding an alternate route," you're starting and ending at exactly the same place but one option is a quick stroll and the other is dragging yourself over broken glass.

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Originally Posted by Solowing

The friction does give it character as well.Because when I look at a plot , I can see what work went into it. But with the z axis that effort bar is removed. I\nLike seeing the levels of flavor and investment in willingness to learn the system to really make the most of it.

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It makes no difference visually whether you floated something with a glitch or with a tool because the end result is the same. If you're implying you can open your third eye and sense the aura of anguish someone put into a floating an item I would have to doubt you on that one.

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Originally Posted by Solowing

Like I said, I'm fine with them, adding it in the make it more accessible, but you do lose something in it.And to say that , you don't is untrue. It's like automating , a job that you're used to normally doing with your hands. It becomes a lost skill using the ability to think outside the box

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Your argument is basically "everyone should have to hand crank their car to start it like a Model T because using a key is too easy." I'm all for a healthy amount of friction in games but there's a difference between that and just demanding things be mind-numbing and laborious for its own sake.

I agree that floating floor furnishings manually doesn't garner more creativity. But it does give me a satisfaction in feeling like I built something in the end. I will always look at my first large build with some pride because covering those fugly steps manually and seamlessly was a huge pain!

However, I have had that sense of satisfaction for a long time and am happy to move beyond it to get more rooms created in less time. I think being able to do that offers even more of a creative outlet because I will be able to finish more entirely different designs than I could before.

I do think creativity comes in with some of the other limitations though. There are design elements I discovered accidentally just because of snapping limitations and floor item boundary restrictions. The end result may not be what I originally intended but I like it better and wouldn't have discovered the better workaround without the limitations. Still, I don't think I would mind those rules being removed either!

What I find aggravating is the apparent order they are releasing housing updates in:

Item increase (redo rooms)
Interior size increase (redo some houses... again)
XYZ placement (when everything has already been redone manually, sometimes twice!)

ugh. Ideally this order would be reversed. Oh well, lots of time to re-re-decorate. I hate to wait until step 2 is even done because we have no idea when that will happen, let alone free placement. It's been 3 years since they announced the item increase?

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Building with or without the Z-axis would result in entirely different designs because it's an entirely different set of circumstances which by their nature lock you out of certain end results.

Slowly floating something using a glitch over a long period of time and floating it immediately with a tool that lets you do so in seconds results in exactly the same thing. The only difference is one is a giant pain in the ass.

There is no "emergent design" between doing Thing A and doing Thing B, where Thing B is just Thing A but it takes an order of magnitude longer. You're not "finding an alternate route," you're starting and ending at exactly the same place but one option is a quick stroll and the other is dragging yourself over broken glass.




It makes no difference visually whether you floated something with a glitch or with a tool because the end result is the same. If you're implying you can open your third eye and sense the aura of anguish someone put into a floating an item I would have to doubt you on that one.




Your argument is basically "everyone should have to hand crank their car to start it like a Model T because using a key is too easy." I'm all for a healthy amount of friction in games but there's a difference between that and just demanding things be mind-numbing and laborious for its own sake.

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Ironically , enough for fort T model users had a much better understanding of the mechanics of their cars then we do modern day cars because of thr computer automation. There is no need to learn a system that's automated. Before automation , you needed to know the function. And why it functions that way.

And yes, you do open a 3rd eye. Understand you can Z axis and lift it up, and I can glitch it up, but its convergent design. As Im setting it all up for a lift, the limitations,the unexpected design changes, the willingness to invest the time, and the effort you are willing to put in all affect the end result. The loft gets put up. But I'm far less exposed to alternate routes since no alternate route is presented. Since the path of A to B is clear with no puzzle to solve and no emergent designs I could come up with because the opportunity never presents itself.

We are into housing for 2 different aspects. Through its limitations, it breeds creativity. Through creativity, I create. No limits.

And you want to decorate for your FC.

And Yes, the "anguish" as you call it. I call it soul, and effort. Is reflected because I loft things up myself and I know what the effort took for them to get up. Against those who don't know how to manipulate the system, and those who can manipulate it but don't have the care to lofting anything more then small items. You can see the love, care and time input by the output when you know the time and effort it takes to create it.

We are just on 2 different wavelengths. You arnt wrong, nor am I. Im just the old cat yelling at clouds, pretty much saying the glitching gave you grit and a creativity ya cant get from streamlining the proccess. Yes its easier now, and that's not bad. But something is lost in that.

Bob Ross famously said, "We don't make mistakes, just happy little accidents". This phrase embodies his philosophy on painting and life, encouraging viewers to embrace unexpected errors as opportunities for creativity rather than reasons for frustration. It taught millions to overcome the fear of failure on canvas

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Adding free item movement for housing would only make people more creative since more people would be able to realize their creative vision without jumping through arbitrary hoops.

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Im agree and see here a main point, that it can involve more people in housing, if builder instruments will be simple and effective. Many of my friends and acquaintances gave up halfway through, even though they tried. I see no reason to blame them for laziness; this isn't hardcore content; it's something that should be simple and understandable. "Housing" feature should be enjoyable for all, not only for minority of especially stubborn people.

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

What I find aggravating is the apparent order they are releasing housing updates in:

Item increase (redo rooms)
Interior size increase (redo some houses... again)
XYZ placement (when everything has already been redone manually, sometimes twice!)

ugh. Ideally this order would be reversed. Oh well, lots of time to re-re-decorate. I hate to wait until step 2 is even done because we have no idea when that will happen, let alone free placement.

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The order is half of the problem...,

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Originally Posted by Merton9999

It's been 3 years since they announced the item increase?

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the fact how rusty the mechanism is makes me especially sad

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Originally Posted by Moon_Rabbit

Im agree and see here a main point, that it can involve more people in housing, if builder instruments will be simple and effective. Many of my friends and acquaintances gave up halfway through, even though they tried. I see no reason to blame them for laziness; this isn't hardcore content; it's something that should be simple and understandable. "Housing" feature should be enjoyable for all, not only for minority of especially stubborn people.

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I believe the Artist makes the paintbrush

I don't buy that the paintbrush is what stops them

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Originally Posted by Solowing

I believe the Artist makes the paintbrush
I don't buy that the paintbrush is what stops them

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Creation as a process, shouldn't be the path of pain and sorrow. Hard times already made strong men, strong men brought us new brushes and the only question is to accept it or not. Your point of view sounds very ortodoxie for me, which is also a synonym of stagnation. New instruments = new possibilities, more involved artists = more new works. I want to see this future, and i dosn't see where is a problem.