Summoner 7.0 Wishlist

I love 6.0 Summoner a lot. I loathed DoT Summoner. I wouldn't want to lose Resurrection (or Verraise on RDM). They've saved me restarting too many boss fights by being able to raise my healer. I don't play with any intention of ever using it. If the healer dies they'll have to wait however long is necessary for my next Swiftcast, but it's there if we need it.

All I want for 7.0 is for Ifrit/Titan/Garuda to be replaced by Leviathan/Ramuh/Shiva after summoning Phoenix. They don't have Egis so they can go straight to full-sized at 93 and get their Astral Flows at 96.

I'm not sure what I'd add at 100. Demi-Diabolos would be pretty cool but I don't think a third phase is actually all that elegant. I think an ability to skip or repeat a phase might be useful. Double up on Bahamut for extra burst damage or double up on Phoenix for better dps, assuming Levi/Ramuh/Shiva offer higher damage than the base 3, or get an extra Enkindle if you're hurting.

Regarding Carbuncle, I actually don't want him doing anything independent. I don't trust an AI pet to be targeting the right mob at any given point. This is the inherent problem with pet classes. Take for instance the last boss in The Burn. If Carbuncle attacks the Mist Dragon in the mist phase before you're able to swap to the dragon heads, you're boned. And that's absolutely going to happen every time. You cannot trust AI. I expect this was the same conclusion the devs came to.

I do think that before level 70, when you actually summon Bahamut, Carbuncle should be the source of the additional damage provided to both Ruin and Outburst while Aethercharge or Dreadwyrm Trance is active. I also think he should get more than just Radiant Aegis. He should cast Ruin IV, which should probably be called something else anyway. Maybe he could be the solution to the Physick problem by changing Physick into some kind of Carbuncle Cure. However I think SMN with any kind of functional cure might be a bit too OP.

-Delete Physick.
-Delete energy drain/siphon
-Normal rez restricted.

Split bahamut and pheonix summon like the pvp system.
(bahamut 1.5s cast/2.5s gcd, add megaflare to it)
(Phéonix instant cast/1.5s, medium damage,
give 1 stack of free instant rez + 10% hp shield for the whole team).

-"Separate carbuncles from the summoning system and let them accumulate ether for a new resource management approach.
Create a 2 long-range spell 2.5s gcd (similar to the old egi assault) with two charges, first generating one Ruin IV stack per use. second generate 1 stack per use for painflare/fester.
Additionally, introduce a spell that absorbs ether from elemental summons to convert it into Carbuncle Trance after 3 elemental ether,
allowing the use of a 20s duration reflect damage effect and 15s personnal 5% damage boost. After two trance carbuncle, unlock ''OGCD summon demi-carbuncle and deal instant damage''

-Reduce the Global Cooldown for summoning Garuda, Titan, and Ifrit from 2.5 seconds to 1.5 seconds.
-add 1.5s cast time to titan 2.5s recast for allow the use of the ogcd.
-Garuda: Slipstream instant cast.
-Ifrit Ruby rite 2.8s cast-> 2.5s
Crimson cyclone no changement
Crimson strike 5 yalms-> 25 yalms.

Add Shiva, Ramuh, Leviathan.

"Implement an elemental combo system among the different summons and allow the choice of 3 summons, with each Demi-Phoenix and Demi-Bahamut summon resetting the previously used summons."
and add effect for these combo.
Exemple Use ifrit after garuda:
Using Ifrit after Garuda or the opposite applies a damage-over-time effect to the target for 10 seconds.

example of possible effect, personal damage increased by 5%, next spell instant cast, gives 1 stack of ether,
reduces casting speed by 25%,etc,etc,...

For this to be possible, it would be necessary to add 3 spell emplacement for the shiva,leviathan,ifrit.
We could replace Physick, which serves no purpose, with a demi-ogcd and instant summon after 120s, such as Carbuncle/Odin/Alexander, etc.
In total, it would likely require adding 5 spell emplacement.

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Originally Posted by Korbei

I love 6.0 Summoner a lot. I loathed DoT Summoner. I wouldn't want to lose Resurrection (or Verraise on RDM). They've saved me restarting too many boss fights by being able to raise my healer. I don't play with any intention of ever using it. If the healer dies they'll have to wait however long is necessary for my next Swiftcast, but it's there if we need it.

All I want for 7.0 is for Ifrit/Titan/Garuda to be replaced by Leviathan/Ramuh/Shiva after summoning Phoenix. They don't have Egis so they can go straight to full-sized at 93 and get their Astral Flows at 96.

I'm not sure what I'd add at 100. Demi-Diabolos would be pretty cool but I don't think a third phase is actually all that elegant.

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Unfortunately, Demi-Diablos seems impossible because in FF14, it's a demon and not a primal.

Summoner has always been flashy. Summoner is about summoning. My opinion is more summons please.

I know people saying it’s silly to give us ramuh, leviathan and shiva because it adds nothing to the job and it will only be recolours of what we currently have. It adds flashiness. Summoner in previous games always had these 6. They are the OG original and need to be added to make final fantasy XIV summoner feel complete. It just doesn’t feel complete without ramuh, shiva and Levi.

Also if people want carbuncle to attack then resurrection and physic needs to go. The job can’t have it all. I also think energy drain/siphon needs to go too. It just brings nothing to the job. Keep fester and painflare and put them on the charge system.

I do believe for level 100 we need a flat OGCD summon. Not another demi. Just a primal that will come out and attack for a bit then leave. Think, mch queen robot. Can also summon other primals too while that one is out. I think it should be either Alexander or Odin.

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Originally Posted by remiff

Unfortunately, Demi-Diablos seems impossible because in FF14, it's a demon and not a primal.

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Anything can be a primal. It's just an image made manifest through aether and conviction. With everything going on in the Void right now, it's easy to imagine someone summoning a primal version of Diabolos. But if not Diabolos, Alexander would be interesting too. Actually come to think of it, they're kind of two sides of the same coin, Light/Dark. I could see both being added together.

Maybe instead of going through the lesser primal cycle, you could forgo all three for one big boom like in old school FF game, sacrificing damage over time for burst damage if you're running out of time. Diabolos in the Bahamut phase and Alexander in the Phoenix phase. That seems like more of an 8.0 idea, though.

Phoenix having a 1-2 combo in ShB felt great and distinguished it from Bahamut. They dumbed down everything else, dunno why they needed to go the extra mile to homogenize Bahamut and Phoenix. They put so little care into that decision that hitting 80 and unlocking Phoenix was a DPS downgrade until an early EW patch because they forgot that Deathflare meant Bahamut dealt more damage overall.

My very casual friend that loved ShB SMN resorted to swapping jobs away and back to SMN every fight as we MSQuested in the world so that he wouldn't be forced into Firebird every other minute, even though that meant he had to resummon Carbuncle between every fight. Eventually he just picked up RPR when he got bored with how SMN plays in EW.

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Originally Posted by SweetPete

Summoner has always been flashy. Summoner is about summoning. My opinion is more summons please.

I know people saying it’s silly to give us ramuh, leviathan and shiva because it adds nothing to the job and it will only be recolours of what we currently have. It adds flashiness. Summoner in previous games always had these 6. They are the OG original and need to be added to make final fantasy XIV summoner feel complete. It just doesn’t feel complete without ramuh, shiva and Levi.

Also if people want carbuncle to attack then resurrection and physic needs to go. The job can’t have it all. I also think energy drain/siphon needs to go too. It just brings nothing to the job. Keep fester and painflare and put them on the charge system.

I do believe for level 100 we need a flat OGCD summon. Not another demi. Just a primal that will come out and attack for a bit then leave. Think, mch queen robot. Can also summon other primals too while that one is out. I think it should be either Alexander or Odin.

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It's not that the majority of people think it's dumb to have them, it's just that they think it's dumb with the current etineration and the fact that the Primals don't really have unique mechanics apart from Ifrit, which has a combo gap closer.

Garuda and Titan seem quite similar overall, and they believe that many of the spell feel like reskinned Ruin spells.

They had marketed 6.0 Summoner as a job with a real strategic aspect in the choice of summons, but in the end, that's clearly not the case,
The only aspect that can sometimes be strategic is the gap closer, but it's limited to just that one part of the rotation.

Seems people are more split on the Summoner than I thought, some people seem to want DPS classes to not be able to rez/heal, others seem to want the old Summoner back while others seem to want another re-haul. Interesting to see, I see Summoners used quite a bit so I thought people were fairly happy with the direction it was going in... can't keep everyone happy I guess.

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Originally Posted by LoadedVirus

Seems people are more split on the Summoner than I thought, some people seem to want DPS classes to not be able to rez/heal, others seem to want the old Summoner back while others seem to want another re-haul. Interesting to see, I see Summoners used quite a bit so I thought people were fairly happy with the direction it was going in... can't keep everyone happy I guess.

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The job's visual design is interesting, but the issue is that the gameplay has been very poorly developed and suffers from numerous problems.

-The job falls into the caster category but is more of a ranged physical DPS, making it quite challenging to balance the caster role, especially when there's a summoner with 99.9% mobility in the game.

-They completely obliterated the previous iteration without planning for a replacement job that drew inspiration from the old summoner's gameplay,
there was still a sizable player community who enjoyed the old job. I'm not against a complete rework, but the majority of this community despises the new summoner precisely because it retains none of the concrete elements from the old one, especially not the best aspects.
Moreover, it has transitioned from a job that required careful management and thoughtful play to one that epitomizes extreme simplicity.

-Yoshi-P marketed the summoner rework as a mobile caster with genuine strategic choices depending on the situation. In reality, this isn't particularly the case, except for Ifrit's gap closer.

-The system for pet management has been completely abolished in favor of a carbuncle that does nothing more than occasionally put up shields.
Additionally, this carbuncle is unavailable during the summoning.

-Since the majority of spells lack any real depth, many people believe that 80% of the spells are nothing more than visually glorified Ruin spells.
The summoner seems to be a level 60 job, and apart from the level 86 trait, the gameplay hardly evolves, even before reaching level 60.

In essence, some want a return to a (DoT) job like the old summoner, while others like the current summoner because it's too easy.

Many believe that the job has potential but needs significant changes without a complete overhaul, including adding depth to gameplay, reducing mobility slightly, and introducing a genuine resource management system.

And a bit more spells that aren't limited to just 4 buttons, especially ones that are more interesting. They could draw inspiration from old summoner mechanics that worked well, such as the egi-assaults, the 4-stack Ruin 4 for when mouvement was crucial,
the Phoenix 1-2 combo, the mechanics of the old Dreadwyrm Trance. from Stormblood to unlock a new burst phase (use a ressource for unlock the transe) etc,...

Sorry for the wall of text, it's not usually my style of message.

That's fair, I don't think they will do another dot class since they seem to have removed most of the dots from the game excluding Blue Mage, I can understand why some people would feel slighted. Summoner currently is definitely different flavours of Ruin spam for sure. I like it however so I can't exactly argue against it.