PLEASE update Trusts

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

It… really doesn’t matter whether they’re AoEing or not. Trust NPCs damage output behaves like a rubberband, adjusting themselves according to how well you’re performing. They hit harder if you’re playing poorly or afk, but lowers their damage if you’re playing better. This is pretty noticeable in trash pulls where your dps are very likely skyrocketing with that many targets multiplying your total damage output.

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That's just not true. Maybe that's true in the new Duty Supports, but it's not true with SHB Trusts.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

ARR and HW duty supports are also slower than doing those dungeons with actual players. A player going through all of it with duty support will have dungeons that take longer all the way through. It's all listed under duty support now btw. Group up with actual players if you want to go fast.

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I'm not asking for it to be as fast as normal players. I'm not asking for a damage boost. I'm literally only asking for Trust AIs to function like Duty Support.

I have been playing this game for years. I'm not averse to playing with other people lmao

I know that a group of players can breeze through a dungeon in about 13-15 minutes. My average time with the new Duty Supports is 19-23 minutes. SHB Trusts are 28-33 minutes.

I'm asking for the SHB Trusts to be on the same level as the new Duty Supports. That's it. That's all I'm asking for.

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Originally Posted by SapphireWeapon

That's just not true. Maybe that's true in the new Duty Supports, but it's not true with SHB Trusts.



I'm not asking for it to be as fast as normal players. I'm not asking for a damage boost. I'm literally only asking for Trust AIs to function like Duty Support.

I have been playing this game for years. I'm not averse to playing with other people lmao

I know that a group of players can breeze through a dungeon in about 13-15 minutes. My average time with the new Duty Supports is 19-23 minutes. SHB Trusts are 28-33 minutes.

I'm asking for the SHB Trusts to be on the same level as the new Duty Supports. That's it. That's all I'm asking for.

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ARR and HW dungeons are by themselves shorter than SHB dungeons therefore shb duty support also takes longer than ARR and HW duty support. You are asking for SE to do slight of hand. Them doing AoE or not is completely unrelated to how fast the run is. Like Rein said, their damage adjusts in an attempt to equalize run length.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

ARR and HW duty supports are also slower than doing those dungeons with actual players. A player going through all of it with duty support will have dungeons that take longer all the way through. It's all listed under duty support now btw. Group up with actual players if you want to go fast.

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Eh depends, the arcanist supports are melting mobs, just wall2wall, pray the healer ai isnt dumb and watch packs melt

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Originally Posted by Saraide

ARR and HW dungeons are by themselves shorter than SHB dungeons therefore shb duty support also takes longer than ARR and HW duty support. You are asking for SE to do slight of hand. Them doing AoE or not is completely unrelated to how fast the run is. Like Rein said, their damage adjusts in an attempt to equalize run length.

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That's not true. The later dungeons have three bosses in them, standard. Some ARR/HW dungeons had four. SHB/EW dungeons almost always have 2-3 groups per W2W pull. ARR/HW dungeons could have a hell of a lot more than that -- ARR especially.

ARR/HW dungeons might seem shorter to you because a group of players leveled down can melt things at ridiculous speeds these days, but in terms of the actual content that you need to get through, ARR dungeons in particular were usually way longer than the expansions. So, there's really no excuse for SHB dungeons to take up to ten minutes longer than them if all of the AI characters are meant to be playing at average ilvl.

I don't know why you're trying so hard to fight me on this. If there really was no difference between the performance of the Duty Support and the Trusts, then why would they have bothered to change the AI at all? Wouldn't the new Duty Supports just have lifted all of the framework from Trusts? Wouldn't that have been easier, faster, and more cost effective?

But they didn't do that. They improved the AI so that the dungeons are handled more efficiently. I don't know why it's so unreasonable to you that I would ask for the systems to be standardized across all expansions. To me, it doesn't make sense that the later game content is actually worse than the early game content.

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Originally Posted by SapphireWeapon

Except, the newly added Heavensward Duty Support AIs use AOE attacks. I literally just went into Sohm Al to doublecheck, and Estinien is doing the thing as I'm typing this.

There is absolutely no reason for the SHB Trusts to not work the same way. It's ridiculous.

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It's not "actual" AOE though. Every single duty finder/trust AI that uses AOE attacks are just the same potency as their single target moves, but the potency is divided between the targets equally, people have tested it over the years. (with some very minor exceptions, like each trust's "big" skill)
So if they did 600 potency in one attack, they'd only be doing 200 potency if they hit 3 enemies. So an NPC hitting only 1 enemy vs hitting 3 is doing the same damage, just different distribution.

That's also without taking in factors like their hidden damage scaling based on how fast / slow you're taking, where their damage gets nerfed if you're going too fast to make sure you have a general similar clear time as long as you're actually attacking.

The reason it may even remotely feel easier is that the dungeons themselves are way easier due to potency inflation, substat inflation and mechanic/HP nerfs over the years making the player character themselves way stronger in older content contrasted to even content 1 expansion ago. To put it in perspective using Sohm Al for example, the highest potency skill in HW was 500, and most skills hung around 300-350 range. Nowdays half the jobs have 600+ potency skills at that same level, or 400+ potency 1-2-3 combos (RPR) or 1000 potency nukes (DNC) at that same level. Things like Direct hit also didn't exist back then either, leading to even more average damage than back then the dungeon's weren't designed around.

Plus, as others have pointed out, regardless of how fast the trusts/duty support can complete the dungeon, actual players can complete it way faster, which is intentional.

Trusts do aoe but only if the mob they are fighting is taking too long. Doing big pulls can be risky as both Alphinaud and Urianger can both not be on the ball. Then each trust has their own personalities and quirks. Like Alphinaud can become focused on healing Alisaie more than others. Though Alisaie does tend to stand in the bad from time to time. Running with trusts isn't supposed to be as fast or faster than with actual people. Trusts also skill their dps based on yours. Course I did have an Dohn Mehg run where Urianger was fairly impatient as he felt the need to spam gravity over and over before whipping out death.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

This is on purpose to make them weaker than playing with actual players.

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That moment when real players take longer than the trusts would. . .

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Originally Posted by SapphireWeapon

That's not true. The later dungeons have three bosses in them, standard. Some ARR/HW dungeons had four. SHB/EW dungeons almost always have 2-3 groups per W2W pull. ARR/HW dungeons could have a hell of a lot more than that -- ARR especially.

ARR/HW dungeons might seem shorter to you because a group of players leveled down can melt things at ridiculous speeds these days, but in terms of the actual content that you need to get through, ARR dungeons in particular were usually way longer than the expansions. So, there's really no excuse for SHB dungeons to take up to ten minutes longer than them if all of the AI characters are meant to be playing at average ilvl.

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Shorter in terms of time spent, not distance walked or bosses fought. Time is the determining factor of how long an encounter is.

You've fallen for SE's slight of hand. NPCs doing AoEs or not is completely irrelevant because their total dps scales up or down depending on how much time SE wants a dungeon with duty support to take.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

That moment when real players take longer than the trusts would. . .

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True despair.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

This is on purpose to make them weaker than playing with actual players.

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By this much though?

They're just way too undertuned.

Squads clear faster than them.

This is by design, if AI was fast than who the f*k will wait on queue and actually play with real players in a MMORPG... honestly the implementation of Trust is already a big NO on my eyes for a MMO