Current top 100th percentile on P1S since 6.08 buffs

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

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You got a lot of hot takes there.

1. Every job can clear just fine, some job have an easier time to clear because they have a clear performance superiority.

2. Every job is easy. Easiness of a job isn't what drives the community but how good it is. Summoner is easy and is a living cancer to optimize. P1S is fine, P2S, you have to go max spell speed build to even pull good number or you desync with buffs. P3S you'd just hold Phoenix the entire add phase and be a ruin III mage.

3. There's no way MCh is currently fine. They are a pure power job and they are doing 1k less than BLM. It's not mobility that adds 1k DPS.

4. Monk got a minor buff, similar to MCH getting a minor buff. We still question why.

5. There is no way to gain true balance but we should at least hope to have similar exposure of all jobs. You get double melee groups most the time. Some groups go double casters. No group goes double phys. When I mention job exposures, take Ranged Phys for example; 80% of the top 50 breakdown clears are bards. It's 12% on DNC and 8% on MCH. With the DNC changes, DNC will see more exposure but that will further harm MCH because they just aren't good enough. You had the same issues for Melee DPS and Caster DPS. I expect Melee DPS to be much better but I expect Caster DPS to get worse / situation will not improve.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

Yeah. YoshiP wasn't saying we can't give constructive criticism.

He wanted the fans to stop telling his development team to fall on their swords and commit suicide.

So you know, general Twitter stuff.

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Yeah, I agree. It was on the perspective on the Official Forums. Death threats just has no place and shouldn't even be considered.

It is day 1 early patch data yeah but it's pretty clear some jobs were completely ignored. This harms the dev team reputation in forms of these sort of thinking;

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

It's pretty obvious

Buff monk because they just reworked it and they don't want people to think the rework was a failure

Buff Black Mage because it's Yoshi-Ps pet job.

Basically forget phys ranged, healers, and tanks exist.

Par for the course, really.

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I don't think it's true but actions leads to think so. Want my hot take? 6.08 was a mistake and we'd be in a better world without these changes.

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

You got a lot of hot takes there.

1. Every job can clear just fine, some job have an easier time to clear because they have a clear performance superiority.

2. Every job is easy. Easiness of a job isn't what drives the community but how good it is.

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While I don't disagree it sucks being at the bottom of the dps list for MCH, its ONLY mch/bards who say "easy of play is meaningless".

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

People are way too obsessed with these numbers. Well here's my take:

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1: Every job can clear but it doesn't mean you can not balance your game.
You could have SMN top DPS or ranged top DPS, melee behind, it wouldn't matter since "Everything can clear content"
Based on this whole argument you could make BLM last DPS if you wanted. Therefore it's null.

2: Reaper is easy, Samurai is easy, RDM is easy, DNC is pushing shiny buttons.
Job difficulty is irrelevant and SQEX said they wouldn't balanced on job difficulty.
Plus, believe me that it's extremely easy to outdps a physical ranged if you are on equal gear. I could outdps myself on my undergeared Samurai with no effort.

3: It's only fine seen from the outside, because it works. What's the point of buying a faster car that will get you to your destination in 2 days when you have 3 free days?
But now imagine the faster car also had extra feature like air conditionner or GPS? For the sake of simplicity, we'll say both cars are at the same price.
Considering those elements, what is the goal of designing the slower car with no feature? It's a design that can only fail.

4: MNK buff is 75 potency per minute. MCH is around 100 potency per minute.
Power of math is useful.

5: Then you want to balance around casuals that only run dungeons, use bio blaster on a single target? Skips cooldowns and sometimes even forgets their dots?
You'd have a terribly unbalanced game if you ever did that. Some job would be useless, others completely broken.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

5: Then you want to balance around casuals that only run dungeons, use bio blaster on a single target? Skips cooldowns and sometimes even forgets their dots?
You'd have a terribly unbalanced game if you ever did that. Some job would be useless, others completely broken.

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God, what casual player hurt you recently? Just because someone is casual does not mean they're inept at their class.

Meh the current 100th percentile is lower than what it was in the past week. Not everyone has logged on yet. If you look at the 90th percentile, it is pretty much the same order we had before. Too early.

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Originally Posted by Mieze

God, what casual player hurt you recently? Just because someone is casual does not mean they're inept at their class.

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It wasn't an agression, apologies if you or anyone else felt attacked.
I never said casual = bad.

The truth remains, some people don't understand their jobs because they lack specific informations.
I've seen Bio blaster used on single target because "It's a higher level ability, therefore it should be stronger".
I've seen people arguing that using flamethrower on a single target could net you 3 ticks, making it a 240 potency GCD.
Myself I was keeping big cooldowns for bosses when I started during HW.
I've seen Streamers discovering the existence of Tsubame-Gaeshi.
I've seen Streamers playing PLD, using FoF then right away entering magic phase.
When leveling AST, I don't bother looking at the card, I just throw them at DPS regardless of which they buff 3 or 6%. I don't want to learn AST, just leveling it.

Not everyone wants to learn their job perfectly, some people wants to just chill, some just wants to level.
You cannot balance the game around them as they often don't seek to fully exploit a job capabilities.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

It wasn't an agression, apologies if you or anyone else felt attacked.

The truth remains, some people don't understand their jobs because they lack specific informations.
I've seen Bio blaster used on single target because "It's a higher level ability, therefore it should be stronger".
I've seen people arguing that using flamethrower on a single target could net you 3 ticks, making it a 240 potency GCD.
Myself I was keeping big cooldowns for bosses when I started during HW.
I've seen Streamers discovering the existence of Tsubame-Gaeshi.
I've seen Streamers playing PLD, using FoF then right away entering magic phase.
When leveling AST, I don't bother looking at the card, I just throw them at DPS regardless of which they buff 3 or 6%. I don't want to learn AST, just leveling it.

Not everyone wants to learn their job perfectly, some people wants to just chill, some just wants to level.
You cannot balance the game around them as they often don't seek to fully exploit a job capabilities.

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I wasn't disagreeing with the part around balancing for people who like to min/max, just clarifying that just because someone classifies themselves as a casual that it doesn't 100% mean they're bad.
I've seen people who are hardcore raiders do all the same that you listed since i've played FFXIV, just saying. It comes down to that part of "some people dont understand their job because they lack specific information" that can in fact happen to hardcore, midcore, and casual players.

Very good, I also experienced these to reassure you.
Yet this is not the initial topic.

The argument stands:
You cannot design and balance around people not aiming to fully exploit the job.

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Job difficulty is irrelevant and SQEX said they wouldn't balanced on job difficulty.

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How about difficulty of maintaining uptime?

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It's only fine seen from the outside, because it works. What's the point of buying a faster car that will get you to your destination in 2 days when you have 3 free days?
But now imagine the faster car also had extra feature like air conditionner or GPS? For the sake of simplicity, we'll say both cars are at the same price.

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Yeah things don't work like that in the real world. Applying that analogy to the game, if you care that much about killing a boss a few seconds faster vs playing a job you enjoy then by all means feel free to switch every balance patch. It's never going to be perfect, there's always going to be someone on top and on bottom. But yes, it works.

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you want to balance around casuals that only run dungeons, use bio blaster on a single target? Skips cooldowns and sometimes even forgets their dots?
You'd have a terribly unbalanced game if you ever did that. Some job would be useless, others completely broken.

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OP posted an example of the best players in the world, you're listing an example of some of the worst. There's a whoooole lot of people in between those two examples and a lot of them don't even log, the average player is somewhere in there and that's probably what they're balancing around (I would guess). You can't balance for 100th percentile parses and expect everyone to play at ultra top tier.

Ya'll are making assumptions off a small amount of data like it's the end of the world. The people who bother to upload logs are likely to be better than most, we're missing a lot of data.

Idk what kind of data they use at SE or how they aim to balance their jobs, if we were privy to that information we probably wouldn't need this discussion. Alas, here we are.

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Originally Posted by Tulzscha

People are way too obsessed with these numbers. Well here's my take:

1: Everyone could clear all the raids before buffs so this does nothing but make everything easier and help improve community perception. Unless you're competing to be the best in the world this is meaningless.

2: Machinist and Summoner are much easier to pull good numbers on compared to melee or Black Mage. Many of the pugs I've been in have had SMNs at or near the top compared to others because they're so easy, saying they're not worth bringing to a group because the best SMN in the world isn't pulling numbers as high as the best Monk is the world is beyond ridiculous - so long as they're not dying SMNs will be more consistently good.

3: MCH is fine. It was fine before and it's better now. All phys ranged are relatively low (probably due to all but guaranteed 100% uptime) plus Bard and Dancer's performance is dependent on others so it makes sense for their best case scenario to be better than MCH.

4: Monk got a buff to one ability that isn't used often, it's not that big of a deal and will have a bigger impact in groups that play better and focus buffs on the Monk. Compared to MCH and DNC who got buffs to abilities they use more often which will have more impact on the average player.

5: The goal here imo is to balance the average players which make up the majority, not the literal best in the world who btw scum parses, that's not what most players should be going by.

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Job complexity shouldn’t dictate damage.