Tank want to train mob but didnt use CD or have decent ilvl, what do?

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Originally Posted by winsock

You are reaching for anything you can find to blame the tank for the situation, to help reinforce the idea that you were in the right.

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They were in the right.

Let me just clarify: nobody is obligated to stay in a group where somebody is calling them names and harassing them because there's two other people there. And nobody should have to sit there and take that kind of treatment. I don't care if they're the worst healer in the world.

I call them out on it.

I simply say if you're not going to use your CD's, I'm not either. We'll see who lives and who dies.

They usually die, and I keep the DPS alive with CD's.

They generally get the idea after that.

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Originally Posted by winsock

You abandoned 3 ppl (2 of which were innocent bystanders) because the tank hurt your ego. And let's face, it your ilvl complaint is unreasonable. You don't need max ilvl, even to pull big. You are reaching for anything you can find to blame the tank for the situation, to help reinforce the idea that you were in the right.

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Are you serious? They could report that tank for harrassing them, you do realize that, right? And you still tell them to 'just take it'? Wow... holy sh**...
It doesn't matter how many people got 'abandoned'. If someone is called names and harrassed for doing their job the best they can, nobody is obliged to stay in that situation. Actually, leaving an abusive situation is the very best thing you can do! Also, 'stand off against other party members? What? He called them names.
Sorry, but people like you are the reason bullies like that excist. Also, no, you don't have to be a tank to know a good one from a bad. And yes, too low ilvl is a darn valid complaint.


OT: You did the right thing. Continue doing what feels right to you and don't listen to people like the guy I quoted above. They are part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by gumas

Put it simple, guy use CD in mostly wrong encounter (no cd while 5+ enemy but unleash everything against normal 3 enemy), his HP goind down so fast i have no choice but to spam benefic 2 (heal 2) and to top of it we have no downtime, so when there is 2 less enemy the tank just bolted sprint to next mob and just aggro everything, by the time we did this 4-5 times non stop i barely has any mp and the dps roughly on 1/2 tp all the time.

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That doesn't sound so terrible. Evidently your gear and/or skill compensated for the tank's lower ilvl and poor cooldown usage. What exactly is the problem?

Judging by the other responses, my perspective is obviously atypical for this game. IMO it isn't the job of the tank to make the run as easy as possible on the healer. Instead the tank and the healer have a shared responsibility to maximise dps (generally) by pulling as much as they collectively can handle. One party member (here the tank) not playing optimally isn't a reason for another (here the healer) not to play to the best of their ability. You heal and dps as best you can. If you wipe, tell the tank that he pulled more than his mitigation and your hps/mp can handle. If you don't wipe then all good, no?

As for the tank's attitude, it's your prerogative to leave of course. Alternatively you could always choose to ignore what some random individual half a world away thinks of your performance.

Bad tank is bad. At this point, I've started telling them so. Politely at first, in case it's just ignorance, but if it escalates, I either leave, or bottle it up and stop trying to save them from their mistakes.

If only people would learn how to pull properly. Seems to be a big issue in this game, not enough focus on the process just the ends.
Better luck finding tanks who can read the group comp and understand what can work. Maybe people will eventually find out that AoE DPS is substantially lower than Single Target and pretty much hinges on the healer's throughput and endurance.

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Originally Posted by Fortune_Cookie

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Except that if the healer has no MP, and the DPS no TP, he pulled far more than 'as much as they collectively can handle'. Actually, they quite obviously overpulled and didn't give anyone time to recover, either. It's also not about making it easy on the healer. The OP didn't ask to make it easy. They asked to make it manageable. And, frankly, even I as WHM start to panic if the tank drops like a stone even though I throw all the tools I have at him to keep him alive... because I know that after I spent them all, there's nothing I can do anymore, and if he drops that hard, I will run out of them quickly. Also, to make it worse, he abused his healer. At this point, it's not about performance anymore. It's about if you are willing to put up with abuse - which you shouldn't be. Name calling shouldnever be tolerated.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

They were in the right.

Let me just clarify: nobody is obligated to stay in a group where somebody is calling them names and harassing them because there's two other people there. And nobody should have to sit there and take that kind of treatment. I don't care if they're the worst healer in the world.

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To clarify, the purpose of my post was to answer the question posed in the thread title, i.e. what [can the OP] do? To do this, i identified factors that i believed contributed to the situation and gave my recommendations on what the OP could do.

Now, my cynicism may be getting the better of me, but i have a hard time believing that the OP is telling the whole story. There are some red flags. For example, the OP's post is weirdly focused on playstyle, the OP was mocked by the tank and whispered to by dps, and the tank was never kicked for harassment... I would absolutely expect that the OP said some stuff that is not being shared. I'm not excusing the tank's behavior by anymeans, but dont believe the OP to be completely innocent e.g. "I stayed with the group up until the final boss, the tank was terrible, but then the tank just started randomly insulting me out of nowhere so i left!!!!" Does anyone believe that? To me, this sounds like something that escalated over the course of the dungeon. Or at the very least, a bigger argument than what the OP is making it appear.

My recommendation for future runs is to mitigate these situations, to lessen the chance that 4 ppl have their run ruined because 2 ppl have a disagreement. I've seen groups end because everyone wanted to escalate the situation further for the sake of being right. I've seen groups saved because someone stepped up and decided they'd rather save the group than escalate drama.

Story time for example:

Awhile back, I was tanking DRK in a 50 roulette w/ full augmented ironworks. The dungeon was Qarn HM. I pull to the first wall (2 groups, but technically 3 if you count the head that doesnt aggro with group 2). I was in tank stance and lead with shadowskin as my first cooldown. The only ability the SCH used was physick and wasnt even spamming it back to back. My HP kept going down, I used living dead, and i died due to not receiving my max hp in healing. I thought to myself.... "guess im pulling 1 at a time". Having had no one comment in party chat other than the initial "howdy", "hi", etc at the start of the duty, the healer says something along the lines of "what did you think was going to happen pulling that many mobs?"

Im understandably a bit irritated. I had run this dungeon several times in the past as a tank and healer, and in my opinion, the healer should have been healing more. I said something stupid like: "I thought you would have healed through it by healing more"... and we were in an argument. I made some other comments in the short argument like "maybe use more than just physick". At one point a dps took the healer's side saying the pull was too large...

Now I was the tank, i could have escalated til i got kicked and instantly requeued, we were at the beginning after all and I was pretty irritated with this healer, but i decided to stick it out and focus on a solution. I was going to pull less anyway so i just said "fine. ill pull less for you" (admittedly being irritated).

We died at the first boss... I had calmed down from the earlier argument and said "welp, that was bad. Anyone need a fight explanation?". The healer and DPS from earlier both said that they did. I afterwards said "cool cool, anybody new btw?" Both the healer and DPS mentioned that they were new.

To shorten the story, I ended up getting 3 comms at the end of that run. The SCH even let me give them a couple pointers. The moral of the story being pride and a desire to place blame / be right can cause issues that can otherwise be avoided. I wonder how the run could have gone if i didnt intially reply with something that would lead to an argument. Focus on clearing the run over being right, and many horror stories will go away.

^ how do you even wipe on the first boss in Qarn HM? Even being new doesn't seem like a good enough reason. It does like no damage.

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

^ how do you even die to the first boss in Qarn HM? Even being new doesn't seem like a good enough reason. It does like no damage.

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they didnt know they needed to get out of the quicksand or focus the glowing body part.......
it was an interesting run to say the least, but overall i'd say it was one best experiences i've had in an ffxiv dungeon. I am glad that run happened