Why HP inflation is a valid concern

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Originally Posted by BlackironTarkus

Tank HP currently does scale further and further from the other classes HP

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Again why is this a problem? They aren't tanking the boss, and they deal damage with a different stat. The stat they deal damage with is present in equal proportions on their gear as VIT is on ours.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

Exactly. Now imagine they screwed up the scaling EVERY patch with new stuff by changing the AP multiplier. Would that be good? No. It's better they have a solid AP scaling principle and only tune the new gear to the new fight in order to not screw up the old stuff.

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ARG. Why are we even saying this would be an excuse? "Oh, well, things have to scale THIS way because SE is going to change their minds about our DPS every patch" is a garbage argument.

History backs none of these arguments up. Did we have too much AP or HP for the entire 4 patches that the previous scaling was in effect? What was broken? How?

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

Exactly. Now imagine they screwed up the scaling EVERY patch with new stuff by changing the AP multiplier. Would that be good? No. It's better they have a solid AP scaling principle and only tune the new gear to the new fight in order to not screw up the old stuff.

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Here lies the problem. They are screwing with the scaling but do not change the gear.

I just don't get it. Assuming our stats grow with gear as they always have and HP scaling remains static as it always has, how is .45/.45 VIT/STR any different at all from .9 STR with STR crammed into all of our gear, or .9 VIT with everything else neatly untouched? How? How does this warrant constant adjustment?

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Originally Posted by Baci

Here lies the problem. They are screwing with the scaling but do not change the gear.

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Indeed. This is the problem that they need to fix.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

History backs none of these arguments up. Did we have too much AP or HP for the entire 4 patches that the previous scaling was in effect? What was broken? How?

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Yoshi stated that STR/VIT AP was a fix that they determined worked for the content range at the time. So it obviously was fine. Tanks originally scaled with STR only, we just returned to the old system.

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Originally Posted by Cevoh

See I don't like this argument for the simple fact that if they want to adjust the damage they wouldn't have to adjust the VIT per gear they would just have to adjust the scaling. If we'd be doing to much damage they could just simply make it .45/.40 or whatever number they want, it wouldn't be hard and the "HP inflation" becomes null.

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The problem comes with future gear upgrades and level cap raises. If they think tanks should do more (or less) damage in end-game fights, they can now just modify how much STR we get from the gear we are supposed to use in those fights. Changing the scaling instead would affect all fights - low-level as well as high-level.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

No, stupid is blindly accepting something you are fed without questioning it, calling those that do stupid, and making excuses for a design choice that the customer base is viciously bucking against.
What you are describing has complete parity with simply removing STR from our gear and scaling VIT at whatever they would have scaled STR at, while not requiring an entire re-arrangement of the stat layout of our gear from the ground up. Any changes to the formula to STR through their non-rigid-modular game design could easily be made to the formula for VIT and would have no effect on our HP. Thrill and Defiance raise HP, they don't raise attack power. How am I stupid for pointing any of this out again? While we're on the topic, how are the ad-hominem's improving your argument?

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If it scales off VIT they have to change the formula to make adjustments. Changing the formula changes all content done at all levels. Keeping it on STR and simply adding STR to our gear lets them pick and choose at which levels we get more or less attack power compared to our party members as a conscious design decision.

If it worked so well why haven't any of the other major MMOs tied attack power to the same stat that governs HP? It's harder to modify in general when damage and hp are intrinsically tied to one another.

Our runaway HP scaling is as much of a problem because eventually (hyperbole here to drive the point) we could end up with 5-6x more hp than anyone else which means tanks will never ever have to worry about getting blapped by anything intended to hurt a dps or healer. How do you tune solo content at that point? Hunt mobs? Should they do enough damage to warrant actually healing said massive hp pool? Do they introduce attacks that scale with how much VIT/HP their target has? It's problematic. The ranges need to be at least within the same ballpark. Tank HP needs to be higher but not necessarily so. They could keep our HP the same as a DPS but increase the effect defense/mdefense has on us instead, then use darkness damage type to penetrate the tank when they want to or other damage types to affect the rest of the raids.

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

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Riddle me this: How do you adjust tank HP, tank dps, non-tank hp and incoming damage separately without affecting each other if tanks dps and hp are linked on the same stat, also without screwing up the old content?

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Originally Posted by Kai_Lee

If there is too much vit for tanks, why do my tanks hp drops to >10% against susanoo ex tanks buster?

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Tell the tanks to not suck and pop cool downs. When I do proper cool down usage I barely drop below half. If an AST/SCH shields me like they should, I barely lose any health.

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

Riddle me this: How do you adjust tank HP, tank dps, non-tank hp and incoming damage separately without affecting each other if tanks dps and hp are linked on the same stat, also without screwing up the old content?

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By adjusting enemy mechanics and their potency for a given skill. Hence why many current tank busters inflict a damage taken debuff to force regular tank swaps (and also why many 270 STR acc wearing tanks get obliterated, because they do not have the expected HP value the attack was balanced around) and those tank busters are generally not going to be aimed at the DPS, who take attacks the tanks can more easily brush off.

Balance is manipulated on more then just the players side of the coin.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

By adjusting enemy mechanics and their potency for a given skill. Hence why many current tank busters inflict a damage taken debuff to force regular tank swaps (and also why many 270 STR acc wearing tanks get obliterated, because they do not have the expected HP value the attack was balanced around) and those tank busters are generally not going to be aimed at the DPS, who take attacks the tanks can more easily brush off.

Balance is manipulated on more then just the players side of the coin.

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Raid AoEs hit everyone, including tanks. If you balance incoming damage to tank hp, non-tank hp gets weaker, or if you balance to non-tank hp, tank hp get weaker. This is why you can't have the stats linked.