Why Summoner Needs Help

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

actually you can't be more wrong ferrasper. the black mage and the summoner are two pure dps caster... the only difference is the form the dps take. one is directly casting the damage, while the other relly on his pet and the dot for create a substain dps.
the trouble with smn, is the loose of the dot have affect too much them dps and lead them far behind. i feel they did hope that the ruin III will cover for this loose and the ruin buff too... sadly it's not enough. we can hope for the 4.05 a boost of the dot damage for cover this part.

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I disagree because the BLM can't combat rez people while SMN can which puts him more in line with the RDM. Not to mention the devotion buff and physic heal which is crappy. It is still a heal though. SMN is a utility caster along with RDM because of the heals, rez, and buff. BLM has none of that making it the pure caster.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

I disagree because the BLM can't combat rez people while SMN can which puts him more in line with the RDM. Not to mention the devotion buff and physic heal which is crappy. It is still a heal though. SMN is a utility caster along with RDM because of the heals, rez, and buff. BLM has none of that making it the pure caster.

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And Red Mage also happens to outpace us in literally every way as well. How convenient!

As I mentioned in my previous post, it seriously feels like they tried to give SMN a more support-DPS role with a build up twist, similar to Dragoon, but our payoff and our support doesn't really work well, especially since Red Mages can essentially rez with no flaws period, and have an AoE support... and then there's Vercure. Both aspects require adjustment, the payoff to our DPS, and the support.

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

And Red Mage also happens to outpace us in literally every way as well. How convenient!

As I mentioned in my previous post, it seriously feels like they tried to give SMN a more support-DPS role with a build up twist, similar to Dragoon, but our payoff and our support doesn't really work well, especially since Red Mages can essentially rez with no flaws period, and have an AoE support... and then there's Vercure. Both aspects require adjustment, the payoff to our DPS, and the support.

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I know which is why I think SMN should be put in line next to RDM making it more a matter of which play-style and buff I want to play with. I want SMN buffed. Please don't misunderstand that.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

I know which is why I think SMN should be put in line next to RDM making it more a matter of which play-style and buff I want to play with. I want SMN buffed. Please don't misunderstand that.

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Ah, fair enough. Hopefully, more people can get on board, since it feels like SE doesn't know what to do with us a good deal of the time.

It's always been kind of odd to me that BLM has traditionally been better at AoE than SMN. I mean... it's a Summoner. The point is to slowly build up to a massive nuke that obliterates everything in sight. BLM has always been about high, consistent damage.

Played my job summoner after leveling my main bard to 70. It feels clunky and ruined. I'll play her when I am bored and the stand alone 60 summoner shall sit idle. Both times I ran the sum in an instance, people asked me how I liked the changes and complained about theirs also with the same things I noticed. Oh, and the aetherial change plain sux. Why do game devs always want to fix what is not broken? Shame...

I agree with all that points, but changing to much things about SMN's power would lead to unbalance.

IMO, SMN is currently stronger than people think, he is not the DPS god, like the current Samourai, but we can't say that he is underpowered.
But I think it requires too much effort to make the best out of this job and i would like to see this jobs improved, without necessary increasing it's power.

Some ideas :
- changing DWT icon into Death Flare when we enter the DWT. Same about Summon Bahamut that should be changed into Enkidle Bahamut (or use the same Enkidle skill for both Enkidle or Enkidle Bahamut.
That's the same order after all).
- Rework Devotion and Physic. Both are useless currently. Physic has no point in its state and devotion is pointless with this 'target' system
- Make bahamut a turret that autohits so we can use it at any moment without feeling we are doing bad if we have not Aethers stacks + Virus + Tri-d
- General animation lock, pet responsive, macro and network improvement (see below*)

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- the previous DWT was 15 sec, that's supposed to be 6 GCD WITH 0 SPELLSPEED. In fact it's 5 with a decent amount of spell speed, that's not that much better with 1 more second.
- Pet should be as responsive as the summoner. Even if we know Garuda has to finish a cast, I don't see any reason from garuda to wait 3 sec for Contagion when her cast is supposed to be 1s...
- Pet doesn't queue some order. If i do Devotion + Enkidle, i'll spend animation time to say to Ifrit to do something, and Ifrit will just answer : "hey bro, here is your Enkidle back, do it again plz'.
- I don't like some animation locks, especially the one from potion and DWT. I don't see either why it's not smooth to burn Fester,ED and Painflaire in the same gcd
- I use a macro for Shadow Flare because i find hard to place it while having a high chance to loose the target (something like /ac SF <t>), but game the decides that sometimes the macro can't be used during GCD.

Just few improvement without directly powering up the jobs would be greatly appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Koyuki38

IMO, SMN is currently stronger than people think, he is not the DPS god, like the current Samourai, but we can't say that he is underpowered. But I think it requires too much effort to make the best out of this job and i would like to see this jobs improved, without necessary increasing it's power.

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actually this - its just way harder to reach a decent amount of numbers - f.e. compared to fflogs top Rdm (4,565) on Susano Ex, the top Smn (4,348.5) just lacks in 220 dps but if you look at it further down the road you see that all top 50 Rdms are above 4000 dps while just the top 4 Smns are able to pass the 4000 dps-line.

The weakness in this job is clearly the effort and punishment if you mess up a single step in your rota - one mistake and you fall down all the road without a chance to stand up in any way... we can compete but nearly nobody is able to play this cls that well to show its real power... though wasnt SB about making everything easier? Seems they forgot smn in this manner... : /

i dont usually comment here but the last part about messing up the AT i feel is completely relevant. its ridiculous a simple bane or fester misclick and all the sudden your down 60 seconds. i can go make a pot of coffee stretch my legs and come back before i can do anything in the fight again.There is already too many frikin buttons to press

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

[B]Bio III, Miasma III and Tri-Disaster's changes don't make up for the loss of Bio in our arsenal

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Yes, because it was not their purpose to compensate any nerfs.
I don't get how you people still don't get it... All nerfs - dots, ruin3, spur etc. are there only cause of bahamut. Square was cautious that bahamut will make smn too OP so they nerfed us a little too much. But not as much as people seem to think.

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

Black Mage can get 2600 potency every two minutes, but Summoner, whose entire gameplay is about building up to a big hoorah, a brilliant finish... is relegated to a mere 1088 potency in two minutes, with Deathflare only providing 800 more in this time.

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Why are you forgetting that bahamut is not only 1088 potency of akh morn but also 1600+ potency with 10-12 wyrmwaves? But it's pointless to discuss potencies anyway, what matter is what DPS smn making compared to BLM. And it is comparable.

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

Bye bye AoE! It's been said before, said again, and I'll also add to that chorus: Bane has been utterly butchered.

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Again... SMN aoe is still on par or a little weaker than BLMs. I checked it specifically in 70lvl dungeons. Why people are whining about bane all the time and forgetting bahamut again and again? Do you even have ANY aoe dps numbers for summoner? To actually compare something?

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

JUST TO MATCH BLACK MAGE OR RED MAGE.

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Do you ever saw actual aoe dps numbers for rdm blm and smn?

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Originally Posted by EllieShadeflare

Why the new Aethertrail Attunement is a Mistake

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This is pretty much the only one thing I'm 100% agree with. I dunno what ideas for smn SE had but this new aetherflow system failed. It disrupts rotation flow so smn needs to cancel DWT early for aetherflow to refresh right before bahamut...