Shirk is amazing. (Ethics)

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Originally Posted by Dalmacus

Um, in the past you just have to provoke and do your emnity combo (Provoke + savage blade/Halone) to get aggro MT does not need to stop attacking or withdraw their weapon at all...

The shirk being used here is to let the tank swaps not need to use their emnity combo but continue using their DPS combos thus increasing damage for both MT & ST.

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Yes and no. You just said what I did. OT has to execute their enmity combo, and that was the problem.

Let's say OT is already in the middle of DPS combo: Can they get their enmity combo + provoke just in time before tank buster ends and MT gets auto attacked?
Should they cancel their DPS combo and start with the first rotation skill?
Please consider the fact that MT is still in tank stance thus still having increased enmity generation, yet necessary to mitigate incoming tank buster.
OR (as an example and what happened in many PUG farm groups) MT is doing their DPS combo, e.g. Zerk triple Fell Cleave and Holmgang'ing in A10S. Try to get aggro from boss then. It was nerve-racking without shirk.

I am not saying you couldn't manage in statics. This problem occurred in PUG nevertheless.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Doesnt change the fact its a crutch for "speedkilling". and what do you mean its not trolling, its abusing an ability to mess with a party member, Its absolutely trolling. by any definition of the term Its exactly the same thing as a diving seal medica 2 as the tank approaches mobs or anything purposely done to disrupt the party or another party member for the sake of "luls"

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I have the feeling this whole "shirk" incident happened to you.
Nobody said its the right thing to do! It's not. (Heck, I don't even equip shirk when I run a dungeon, better take an additional mitigation skill.)
YET neither is calling someone names. And that is what this BLM did.
Nobody in this story were right.

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

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I don't play on NA/EU so our culture has differences. Usually when people provokes here, macro with sound is being played the tank that is going to be swapped will shirk to the incoming tank. (MT Shirk >ST) So i don't see any issues with this.

Actually, I don't use provoke macros. Macros tend to skip your ability, yet playing the sound/text in chat.

I don't disagree with you. I just pointed out that it was nerve-racking without shirk to tank swap if MT still attacked, as they still had increased enmity generation.

Just doing enmity combo wasn't always enough, except you could predict the tank buster by a few seconds. DPS was so variable, it was almost impossible to tell if you skipped tank buster mechanic or not. And you didn't want to waste an enmity combo for nothing (esp. PLD and DRK).

I love Shirk for what it does. I most reserve the troll uses of it for friends, but there was a time in Laks EX when I used it on an overzealous RDM who insisted in blowing his entire wad on the first adds in the beginning. One time, this caused us to wipe because the adds cleave, and while he was busy pulling one add over and cleaving the backline, I lost aggro on the second mob because the melee decided to DPS it instead of the correct target (despite the kill order markers I put on them).

I started off nice enough, asked the RDM to use Diversion. He said something about how I should "keep aggro better" or some crap, so next pull as soon as I did my first aggro combo (and while he was in middle of unloading) I shirked him, then just sat there while the adds ate through him and the other dps.

He promptly left, we pulled out of the dungeon, one of the healers called the RDM an asshole, then we re-listed party and had another DPS (a very good MNK) join instantly and went on to kill Laks a half dozen times before disbanding. It was a good feeling.

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Originally Posted by Dalmacus

Um, in the past you just have to provoke and do your emnity combo (Provoke + savage blade/Halone) to get aggro MT does not need to stop attacking or withdraw their weapon at all...

The shirk being used here is to let the tank swaps not need to use their emnity combo but continue using their DPS combos thus increasing damage for both MT & ST.

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You have no idea what you're talking about. Take Sophia EX or Niddy EX final phase for example; thanks to the debuffs (tank buster from Sophia, stacking insta-gib from Niddy) when it came time to tank swap, you STOPPED. You hit esc and sat there until it was clear Sophia or Niddy was on the other tank, because if you screwed up, you died, and if you died, the raid died. Shirk makes situations like that go so much more smoothly now.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

the only reason a tank has to have this on their hotbar, is because they cant tank swap properly, or the other tank cant hold hate.

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Holy cow is this short-sighted. Like others have already pointed, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. A tank in 8man content without shirk on their hotbar is a sad thing indeed.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

Holy cow is this short-sighted. Like others have already pointed, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. A tank in 8man content without shirk on their hotbar is a sad thing indeed.

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Yet judging by my Susano runs, there is a large amount of tanks who seemingly aren't bringing it or are never using it which is indeed very sad.

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Originally Posted by ArianeEwah

I have the feeling this whole "shirk" incident happened to you.
Nobody said its the right thing to do! It's not. (Heck, I don't even equip shirk when I run a dungeon, better take an additional mitigation skill.)
YET neither is calling someone names. And that is what this BLM did.
Nobody in this story were right.

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Actually, no it never has, not to my knowledge. I use lucid dreaming if Im approiaching, or have hate, so it often goes back to the tank anyway.

I know how to abuse and manipulate hate very well. So even if the tank tried, I'd exploit it. As you stated its just plain dumb. But I blame SE more than the tanks that use it however they want. Like I said, an enmity steal move wouldve been better. Shirk definitely shouldve beena dps cross role skill imo.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

Holy cow is this short-sighted. Like others have already pointed, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. A tank in 8man content without shirk on their hotbar is a sad thing indeed.

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You jump potion bro? Cause obviously clearing content was impossible without shirk before right?

how does one use shirk. Just wondering i never had a issue before with tank swaps but from what im reading up on and hearing it sounds interesting. And also how does one macro it?

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

You jump potion bro? Cause obviously clearing content was impossible without shirk before right?

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Yes, it was possible to clear content before Shirk.

However, if you take a look at all 3 tanks' aggro combos, you'll see that they're all a DPS loss (Butcher's Block is a potency gain vs SP, but you lose 10 gauge which makes it a loss). So how do we avoid doing those aggro combos as much as possible? By getting as much aggro as we can from elsewhere. In 3.X (and 4.X) this was from NIN and allowed for the most efficient speedkills. Now we have Shirk, which with a proper swap will gain you a ton of free aggro.

Basically, taking Shirk and using it properly is a pretty big DPS gain and when the goal is to kill the boss that tends to be a pretty important thing. Plus there really isn't anything to take in place of it (Rampart/Provoke/Reprisal/Conva/Shirk should be your go-to for 8man stuff, swapping Shirk for Awareness in dungeons).

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Originally Posted by Axxion

how does one use shirk. Just wondering i never had a issue before with tank swaps but from what im reading up on and hearing it sounds interesting. And also how does one macro it?

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OT vokes -> MT Shirks OT -> MT vokes -> OT shirks MT. That's for the Shirklejerk, but that's how it works anyway (OT vokes -> MT shirks).

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post4282644 <- Shirk macro