Some Dark Knight 4.0 feedback

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Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum

I don't know why people insist on taking quietus and bloodspiller off the GCD. It's there because we already have to many oGCDs

Just think about how the opener would play out.

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We hardly have anymore oGCDs now. They took most of them away.

CnS and and Plunge. That's all we have left. Goodbye Reprisal and Low Blow. CnS 60s cooldown. Plunge 30s----is that really too many oGCDs to manage? If they ABSOLUTELY had to keep the # of oGCDs the same, then put CnS on it. It is only up once per minute so would not nearly as much negatively affect MP/Blood gain.

Blood Spiller being on the GCD delays SS and SE, both of which build your resources.

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Originally Posted by Falar

Blood Spiller being on the GCD delays SS and SE, both of which build your resources.

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Which is why I think like the gentlemen earlier suggested

DRKs main mechanic should have been based on 100% BW/BP uptime. Not just with delirium, but Bloodspiller and Queitus respectively.

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Originally Posted by garret_hawke

For Shadow Wall I always wanted to add an option to DA it to increase the damage reduction to 50%. OP?

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Would help you stay out of Grit for a tankbuster ... At least when considering DRK's defense kit situation, would be nice to fill those gaps where Dark Mind isn't applicable. And since there's The Blackest Night to layer on top of every CD use, frequency is more the demand I think.

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Originally Posted by Falar

3. Do something with Carve and Spit. I think with Bloodspiller being our new, big hit it has a bit of an identity crisis. I think it should become more similar to a similar skill---Ninja's DwD (now 60s cooldown, 3 x 150 pot hits) with 3 x 150 pot hits and no DA effect. In Grit make its use add some MP and Blackblood.

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TBH I'd rather they not mess with it. Carve & Spit is the only cooldown left keeping Dark Arts priorities a real thing. We've reached a point where now they could just remove Dark Arts added effects from all single target Weaponskills tool tips and just move it all to Dark Arts itself.

Dark Arts
- Next Weaponskill inflicts an additional 140 potency, DA is consumed.

*C&S is not a weaponskill, and Quietus would keep its own DA effect since it's AOE.

Though as to why Bloodspiller has a potency increase in Grit instead of 'Ignore stance penalty' like Inner Beast. It's so to keep the stance damage penalty on the 140 Dark Arts thats added to Bloodspiller. Otherwise, DA-Bloodspiller would take priority over SE/SS at least in regard to damage (when in Grit).

Probably it is this way because they want the 'what to' DA priority gone except for C&S.



I think the Blood Price nerf goes hand-in-hand with the buff to Siphon's MP restore in Grit. They wanted to shift emphasis of MP recovery away from that CD to something more consistent - Siphon. They talked about synergy and raising the skill floor. They heard the WHM Holy spam VS DRK BP complaints and saw the conditional productivity of Blood Price, so they did what they did.

I can deal with the Blood Price changes, but it needs an additional effect on par with Blood Weapon's 10% attack speed boost and CD reduction, just imo.

I already posted a request for Tenacity stat to scale off of vitality for tanks in the tank forums and also talked about the lack of traits as well as the problem with the cross role system in other battle systems forums so please go check that out if you can.

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Originally Posted by Falar

Yet another post stating that "BW has decreased cooldown"
The patch notes mentioned that just because at low levels its cooldown used to be longer with a trait (Clean Weapon) that later reduced it to 40s. Now there is no trait and the skill is just 40s. It is unchanged.

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Ow, sorry, my bad. I'll correct that right away, thanks for pointing it. But Blood Weapon is still better now than before with its synergy with Delirium. I'll replace this mistake with this.

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Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum

Which is why I think like the gentlemen earlier suggested

DRKs main mechanic should have been based on 100% BW/BP uptime. Not just with delirium, but Bloodspiller and Queitus respectively.

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That sound like a good idea. But seeing how Square don't want us to change our stance too much, I don't think they'll ever go this way.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

I think the Blood Price nerf goes hand-in-hand with the buff to Siphon's MP restore in Grit. They wanted to shift emphasis of MP recovery away from that CD to something more consistent - Siphon. They talked about synergy and raising the skill floor. They heard the WHM Holy spam VS DRK BP complaints and saw the conditional productivity of Blood Price, so they did what they did.

I can deal with the Blood Price changes, but it needs an additional effect on par with Blood Weapon's 10% attack speed boost and CD reduction, just imo.

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I think that's the reason too, and like all of us, I changed my playstyle to incorporate "mana recovery combos" during my mass pull rotation. That's why I don't think they'll go back to old BP. But I still think it was nerfed way too hard on the MP side, it became worthless on single target. The Blood is nice, but BW is so much better on this part too...

The real problem is really that, BP is inferior to BW in every ways, even taking the new Siphon into account.

Exactly, meaning stance dancing is guaranteed. Dropping grit for BW+Delirium is mandatory.

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

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I too wonder why they didn't just word it like inner beast and have it bypass the Grit penalty.

In my mind, there is still a "DA Priority" system anyway. For me it is:

CnS>Bloodspiller>Souleater

I like the idea of bloodspiller adding the blood weapon timer. I think it would also be cool if they gave us a dark arts effect on syphon strike/bloodspiller which added back the scourage dot at 80 potency for 15 seconds instead of the 140 potency.

Just give me more solid ways to generate and keep enemity more efficient and im fine

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Originally Posted by Nivarea

Finally, I felt really squishy

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4.0 changes to DRK didn't make you squishy. You're squishy because the damage formula changed. They did the same back in 3.0, so that our numbers don't skyrocket with the ten additionnal levels. On top of that, we don't overgear SB content yet, like we did HW for months.

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Originally Posted by Nivarea

Bloospiller is a really good skill. Its damage is really great. But I think a little up to it potency under Dark Arts, only 10 or 20 max, would make it better in every way, and will improve a bit the decision making of DRK. As of now, aside of C&S, DA always add 140 potency, making its use mindless. Adding a little more potency on Bloodspiller will make us prioritise it use on it, making us thinking about our use or DA more carefully if we want to optimize our damage output.

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It seems to me that people overlook one aspect of BloodSpiller, which is the part where it ignores Grit's penalty. So, when you're under Grit, which you probably be a lot more than in HW, Dark Arts adds more potency on BS than Syphon Strike and SoulEater. So your priorities are C&S, then BloodSpiller, then SS/SE.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

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I know, I felt squishy on my PLD and my WAR as well. But the lack of CDs of the DRK before TBN made it worse than the two other tanks before 70 IMO.

I'm also not overlooking the potency of Bloodspiller under Grit, it's hands down our best damaging tool when Main Tanking, making DRK maybe the best MT right now. I was ostly thinking outside Grit, when using Bloodspiller is a minor DPS loss. ^^ So minor that it's overshadowed by TBN great utility.
Even at the moment, DAing Bloodspiller is still second on the priority list, after C&S, because in case it crits, the damage of Bloodspiller is exponentially greater than DA+Something else that is not C&S. But the priority over DA SE or SS is minor right now.