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  1. #1
    Player
    Nivarea's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    73
    Character
    C'lhen Madder
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100

    Some Dark Knight 4.0 feedback

    First and foremost, I’m not english nor speaking it on a dailly basis, so I prefer to excuse right now for incorrect grammar and other mistakes I will surely make. Why I choose to write this in english is because the english forums are much more active than those of my own language (baguette reporting, don’t bully me =B). Don’t hesitate to correct me, even if it's a bit long. o/

    This out of the way, let’s go to the meat of the subject that is DRK 4.0.

    I chosed to main DRK back in 3.0 after falling in love with its playstyle, the busy tank. The button mashy feeling of the job was something I came to like after learning to tank with good old PLD, as FFXIV was my first MMORPG. DRK was a bit harder to play, but in my eyes far more interesting. The aestethic of the job, with the greatswords and cool animations (the edge is calling tonight!) was the icing on the cake.

    From this point, I was a bit sceptical discovering the changes after the Media Tour. Losing one combo finisher, our beloved DoT (Scourge ;_ ; ) and oGCD to weave made me quite affraid to lose what made the DRK playstyle so different. Also, the new abilities were not that interresting at first glimpse. Well, beside The Blackest Night which looked awesome.
    I still waited to play the DRK 4.0 all the way to 70, doing some dungeons and Susano Ex runs, before coming back and giving feedback on the job. Here it is.

    The way to 70:

    I’m not gonna lie, levelling DRK wasn’t an enjoyable experience at first. At 60, the job feels really incomplete, a shadow of its former self, an empty shell. Like all tanks, I saw pretty quickly the loss of DPS overall, even without taking skills removed into account. Only having one damaging combo sucked, and the lack of oGCD didn’t helped. I was pretty angry too when I discovered the HUGE nerf to Blood Price, the hard way, during a big pull on an HW dungeon (yep, we wipped). The potency nerf of Unleash weirdlly came as unnoticed, but that may be because I was already mostly spamming Abyssal Drain back in HW. Finally, I felt really squishy, and felt a lack of defensive CD now that Foresight is gone, Reprisal, Low Blow and Dark Dance dumped into cross-skill and stripped down of their synergies with DRK.
    Only sunlight ray on this dark beginning, I was quite pleased with the up of the MP-gain given by Syphon Strike.

    I had to make peace with 3.0 DRK. I had little fun before lv 66, when the augmented Blackblood trait kicked in. It made managing the gauge interresting, with a bit of a thought for the use of Delirium. It’s not really a deep mindgame, but it was refresing to have some depht and complexity back. Gaining Bloodspiller made the blood finally usefull on bosses. It’s at this time that DRK became a bit more fun. Finally, at lv 70, we gain TBN (Blackest Night), and all wrap together.

    At 70, DRK is fun to play, as surprinsing as it can seems seing what was my opinion when starting the levelling. The trait, Bloodspiller and TBN make the blood gauge usefull, and the management of ressources (MP and Blood) is really fun. It’s still not as fun as DRK 3.0 tho, but I’m agreably surprised.

    Tl:dr: Leveling is a pain, but the job plays surprisingly fine at 70.

    At lv 70:

    Here’s my thoughts about the good and the bad of 4.0 DRK :

    The good:
    -The interactivity between SB abilities and the blood gauge is well thought. We have to balance our MP and our Blood gauge to maximise our capacities. It’s not hard per sey, MP management is plain easy compared to HW, but it works well.
    -The Blackest Night is an awesome defensive CD. And I can share it, double yay!
    -Bloodspiller have NO animation lock AND don’t break combos. That were my concerns before SB, I’m glad they were not granted.
    -Darkside is no longer draining MP, making MP management really easy.
    -Syphon Strike returning double MP while on Grit is great.
    -The synergy of Delirium with Blood Weapon feel good.
    -Spamming Dark Arts is still amusing.

    The bad:
    -Darkside is no longer draining MP… I liked that aspect of DRK, it was challenging in a good way.
    -The nerf on Blood Price is awfull. Being lock behind Grit, I can live with that. Nerfing its MP drain to ridiculous level, even with the blood gain, I can’t.
    -The nerf on Unleash can make the aggro difficult. I’m not that bothered because I already spammed AD, but AD is not always the best AOE.
    -Dark Passenger. What were you thinking? It’s basically useless or at least very VERY situationnal now.
    -We already were the tank with the less CDs, it’s worse with SB and three of em put on Cross Skill and losing all synergy with our kit. Yes, TBN is awesome, but we’re lacking in this area compared to PLD and WAR.

    The worst:
    -Scalling on STR. Seriously? I can live with less average dmg, but locking our SB accessories to Vit only is bad. Right now, aggro is harder to keep than before, it will not go easier as patches goes if we’re not gaining as much main dmg stat as DPS classes.


    DRK 4.0 is… a weird success I guess? I have my qualms with it, but in the end, I’m having fun. I may have some suggestions to improve the job, while trying to keep what seems to be the new philosophy of DRK.


    Changes and upgrading ideas:

    Note : I don't want all of this to be added, or even think that one of this thing would eventually be tuned as I propose here. DRK is mostly fine as it is, but it can be improved to be akin to a PLD level (which is really awesome in SB, plz don't nerf SE).

    What I think it necessary:

    -Changing the scalling back to STR, or put STR on Tank Accessories alongside VIT.

    -Dark Passenger.
    Ideally, reverting it to what it was before would be the best, but I don’t think it’s an option. Upping its base potency back to what it was would make it worth the cost more. Or you can keep the potency nerf, but halve the price. Or remove the DA effect, and put in on vanilla DP, blindness can make it a bit more worthwhile ?
    I don’t know. There is many ways to make it usefull again, but right now, it sucks.

    -Blood Price.
    Revert it back, or at least make it worth on the MP drain side. Half what it was before would still be better that what we have now.

    What would be really usefull:

    -The Blackest Night.
    It’s Awesome. But it can be clunky with its short activation window. 5 sec is not even two server ticks, and I was already trolled with them concerning TBN. Adding one or two sec would make it more reliable. More would be pretty OP I guess.

    -Shadow Wall.
    Right now, Shadow Wall is by far the weakest « big CD » of the three tanks. 30% reduction like Vengeance, but without its added effect, and with the cooldwon of Sentinel, which is more powerfull, with 180 sec compared to 120 for Vengeance. It’s inferior in every ways! Do someting about that SE.

    -A small up to Bloodspiller.
    Bloospiller is a really good skill. Its damage is really great. But I think a little up to it potency under Dark Arts, only 10 or 20 max, would make it better in every way, and will improve a bit the decision making of DRK. As of now, aside of C&S, DA always add 140 potency, making its use mindless. Adding a little more potency on Bloodspiller will make us prioritise it use on it, making us thinking about our use or DA more carefully if we want to optimize our damage output.

    -A new « small » defensive CD.
    Making Dark Dance coming back for exemple, or something akin to Bulwark. Just something to soften the damage.

    Quality of Life stuff:

    -Bring back Shadow Skin Animation.
    Okay, Rempart is for all tanks, but tweaking the animation for each tank, using already exsisting animation, would be better.

    -Unleash.
    Up the aggro generation if you really want to keep the potency nerf. It’s mostly for leveling tho.


    The dream:

    -Bring back Scourge.
    PLD kept its DoT because it was on combo, so why not making our old DoT the new third combo? Tweaking the potencies as necessary, but really, the animation was kickass, and it still was our best damaging skill back in HW. I can dream dammit!
    More seriously, it will add diversity to our combos, and adding back DoT management.


    Here it is. Sorry for my broken english, but I really wanted to display my opinions to the more people I could. ^^ You’re free to discuss, add things, even sharing your own feedback as well, but the idea is to say what works and what needs to be improved, with the hope that SE will take our feedbacks into account to make the tanks better (the DRK in this case). I’m not crazy enough to think that any of the improvements I suggested would make into the game (all of them would be reeeaaaaally too much anyway), but it’s still interresting to try to solves problems and lacks we felt while playing.
    (20)
    Last edited by Nivarea; 07-01-2017 at 09:25 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Dj_Seaghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Ishgard
    Posts
    112
    Character
    Revy Strauss
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    I'd also like to suggest increasing the enmity generation of powerslash combo w/o DA so that using DA on it is a worthy sacrifice for increase enmity, atm it feels like your forced to DA it just to keep up with other tanks aggro. (Overall I don't have issues with aggro, just find it odd that based on other comments I've seen that it's enmity multiplier is less on each of it's skills then the other two and it's overall combo potency with the PS combo is less than the other two, only passing them if they use their combo in tank stance without their dmg buff.

    I also feel that Dark Knight isn't in as good as a position as people claim it is, because it's bad is glossed over by the fact that War is honestly in a worse position. It also could use some lvl 60 tweaks to return it, it's so weak then now. And Scourge as a 3rd combo ending and Bloodspiller potency increase are exactly what I've been thinking.
    (0)
    Last edited by Dj_Seaghost; 07-01-2017 at 03:25 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Arkenne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    1,350
    Character
    Aiot O'lein
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Rogue Lv 80
    On the dream side, I would have loved that Bloodspiller had been the 2nd or 1st skill one gets on the trip to 70 :/
    I really have no idea what to do with that blood gauge when delirium is on cooldown >_>;;;
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player Giubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    195
    Character
    Athmas Bloedornnsyn
    World
    Lich
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 80
    Great post. Now that i've finally reached the level cap the loss of blood price mana generation hit me the hardest.
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    Xenosan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,021
    Character
    Goffard Gaffgarion
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 73
    Dreams~

    Bloodspiller
    added effect:
    Extends Blood Weapon and Blood Price duration by 8 and 16 respectively.
    * Effect only applies if damage is inflicted.
    Quietus
    added effect:
    Extends Blood Weapon and Blood Price duration by 8 and 16 respectively.
    * Effect only applies if damage is inflicted.
    Delirium
    added effect in Grit:
    Dark Knight is healed for 2,700 potency.
    The Blackest Night
    added effect: if barrier dissipates:
    Target is healed for 380 potency.
    Dark Knight +5 Blackblood
    added effect: if barrier is destroyed:
    100 potency damage is reflected onto dispelling attacker

    Blood Price
    added effects:
    Can Parry magic,
    Can parry from all directions,
    30% chance that parried attacks will reflect 100 potency back to attacker,

    (bonus points if they would also change Blood Price's name to Shadowskin and give it that old animation)
    Unleashed
    Abyssal Drain can also proc Enhanced Unleash.
    Enhanced Unleash added effects:
    increased to 100 potency,
    Dark Knight is healed for 380 potency,
    Dark Knight regains MP (non-Grit Siphon amount),
    ..It wouldn't be OP would it?

    I find that Delirium BW/BP refresh so tantalizing ; ;

    I want it a permanent part of the rotation, balance be damned it'd be fun
    (2)
    Last edited by Xenosan; 07-01-2017 at 07:09 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    garret_hawke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Limsa Lomisa
    Posts
    94
    Character
    Garret Shadowwalker
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 80
    For Shadow Wall I always wanted to add an option to DA it to increase the damage reduction to 50%. OP?
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player
    Falar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    502
    Character
    Kane Blackstone
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Yet another post stating that "BW has decreased cooldown"

    NO.

    The patch notes mentioned that just because at low levels its cooldown used to be longer with a trait (Clean Weapon) that later reduced it to 40s. Now there is no trait and the skill is just 40s. It is unchanged.

    I think 3 things would really clean things up and make us no longer the worst tanks (yes WAR, I know you are bitching saying you are the worst, but the numbers are out and its us):

    1. Bloodspiller and Quietus move off the GCD. They cut into our resource generation.

    2. Blood Price at least move to 1/2 of the old value (currently at 1/4) and revert Dark Passenger as it is useless in its current state.

    3. Do something with Carve and Spit. I think with Bloodspiller being our new, big hit it has a bit of an identity crisis. I think it should become more similar to a similar skill---Ninja's DwD (now 60s cooldown, 3 x 150 pot hits) with 3 x 150 pot hits and no DA effect. In Grit make its use add some MP and Blackblood.
    (7)
    Last edited by Falar; 07-01-2017 at 09:23 AM.

  8. #8
    Player
    Falar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    502
    Character
    Kane Blackstone
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    And yes, our right side accessories need STR added. I am afraid they are just going to increase the enmity multipliers though. Tank attack power is now much lower than the DPS than in HW plus they have an offensive stat that we don't---Direct Hit.

    Yes, we can meld it, but it will never be enough to counteract theirs.
    (3)

  9. #9
    Player
    Tankstuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    77
    Character
    Ship Md
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Take bloodspiller and quietus off the gcd or reduce their cost, revert the DP nerf, double BP mana, maybe increase TBN duration by a few more seconds.
    (4)

  10. #10
    Player Jhett_Magnum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    385
    Character
    Zanku Hado
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    I don't know why people insist on taking quietus and bloodspiller off the GCD. It's there because we already have to many oGCDs

    Just think about how the opener would play out.
    (1)

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