Your potencies are already relatively high compared to what ranged can put out, and you have auto attacks on top of buffs that increase damage dealt (through raw damage, attack speed, or both(. The positionals at that point far eclipses what non-melees can already do.
Only DRG was truly hindered by this because their combo extensions and skill applications were entirely reliant on positional; if you missed the positional on heavy, impulse drive or chaos thrust, you didn't get anything except a 100 potency hit out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynric
Much less so in 3.x now because every job has gotten more abilities that deal damage regardless of positional (forbidden chakra, DwaD, etc etc)
Melee Positional Requirements
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04-01-2016, 10:51 AMRiceisNice
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04-01-2016, 10:54 AMKoltikThen why do good BRD and MCH's completely outclass good melee DPS in damage? This just isn't true.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceisNice
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04-01-2016, 11:05 AMRiceisNiceThat assumption though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koltik
On a serious note, though, the other factor is uptime. Consider this; I typically beat out melee in damage dealt by maybe 10k per match, but I'm attacking much more frequently than they are. They have the burden of staying within range on their targets, and rarely do they ever stand still to act as a dummy (unless they're casting) -
04-01-2016, 11:09 AMCynric
To be fair Machinist still gets their turret for something similar to an auto attack which is a lot more reliable than ours.
As for potency without proper positioning. I think it's a bit lower than you think.
As an example since I know it the best and Dragoon can already negate penalties here is Monk.
Bootshine 150/ Auto Crit in oppo from/perfect balance from rear
Dragon Kick 100/150 from flank
Twin Snakes 100/140 from flank
True Strike 150/ 190 from rear
Demolish 30/70 from rear
Snap Punch 140/180 from flank
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Aside from true Strike and Snap punch they aren't really anything to write home about. Monks don't get most their power from their GCD skill potency and instead get it from GL3.
Dragoon however gets a ton of potency from its respective GCDs, but.. they can already negate positional requirements anyway.
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Also I only really ever get beat in damage dealt in short matches, In short ones I think I see like 80-90k? and in full timer ones I see from 170k to 200k+ depending on how long I decide to pressure people or if I get CC'd with fetter/purify on CD.
I have to agree with Rice on damage dealt. Getting beat by ranged on damage dealt isn't exactly impractical. They're ranged and probably get more up-time right from the start than you will.. Usually anyway. -
04-01-2016, 11:12 AMKoltikAssumption?Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceisNice
http://i.imgur.com/qNTFiMM.png
If I'm not a good melee DPS, then show me one. I'm always top melee dmg in matches. https://xivpvp.com/character/3371851/Koltik-Morrel -
04-01-2016, 11:19 AMCynric
The Feast (Solo) match (08m00s) on Aether - https://xivpvp.com/feast/match/16916
Though its a loss at least it recorded on my profile I guess. This is usually what I see number wise myself.
Shame my matches don't always show up on this website. I guess its because i'm a ps4 player and don't run the client.
It even has my PVP Rank wrong lol. But the damage dealt and match outcome are correct. -
04-01-2016, 11:24 AMKoltikThis isn't the point. The point is reliable damage. I could link huge damage games all day, but the fact of the matter is that brd/mch can now do this kind of damage reliably, whereas before they could not (like us).Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynric
Just for you: http://i.imgur.com/d5WMDNA.png
Can we pull 200k+? Yes. Is it reliable? No. Have I seen good BRD/MCH/SMN do it game after game? Yes. -
04-01-2016, 11:25 AMRiceisNiceI should have /s'd that at the very least because it's not meant to be a snide comment to anyone, but if you want me to pitch in. There's many variables to go by if you want to do a direct damage comparison (because I'm looking through your logs, and its just as inconsistent when it comes to you outdpsing the ranged/BRD in your party), such as heavy medal, full swing, and burst damage. Ask yourself this; would you prefer a BRD/MCH or a melee to stay on a caster to make sure they don't get any casts off, in regards to the interrupt changes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Koltik
I've had a handful of matches where the variance between me and my melee is around 10-20k (and the times it gets incredibly lopsided are usually due to deaths or a short match timer). I've also had matches where my damage dealt gets hyper inflated because I'm targetting a 9 stack tank who isn't dying (because the melee is attacking the wrong target), although that ended up being a loss. -
04-01-2016, 11:33 AMCynricI'm not here to compare my damage with yours. I'm saying it's perfectly possible to get far above ranged with melee depending on the match. As you said every match is relative, however ranges only advantage with a stat like damage dealt is they have range, thus more uptime on players. It's also easier for them to multi dot and inflate the score.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koltik
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04-01-2016, 11:35 AMKoltikThe only comment I have to this is player skill. Not all BRD/MCH are the same, nor are melee DPS. However, at the top-end, I definitely am seeing BRD/MCH completely outclass any melee DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceisNice