The Bottom Feeders: Moves You Never Use and Why.

DRG:
Feint - Really only good for low level soloing FATEs

MCH:
Suppressive Fire - Good in theory but the incredibly small range (compared to Head Graze) make it difficult to use.

SCH:
Miasma II - Only ever used if being chased by a hoard of mobs and you need to kite/get away, which rarely happens/helps, because the Weight it inflicts is pretty weak.

BTW Dissipation is actually very useful.
-Adoloquium with Fey Illumination+Dissipation on a WAR using Convalescence+Defiance then Deployment Tactics can be 14k+ shield on the whole raid at the start of a fight.
-First 3minutes of Ravana EX as SCH, Cleric Stance throw on Rouse+Whispering Dawn, drop DoT's/Shadow Flare/burn Energy Drains/Broils, then when it starts charging Prelude to Liberation, use Dissipation and burn 3 more energy Drains. It will be fine because then he jumps/drops his bombs and cross fires, then does Liberation, then does the clock charges and then Warlord Shell. That's a good 1-2 minutes of not needing your Fairy, so might as well get those 3 free Aether stacks and get free DPS.

I don't tank (yet) but one of the big issues with Divine Veil in group content in that some healers don't know that they have to activate it. After someone told me how it worked I now keep an eye out to ensure I heal as soon as I see it pop. It's one of the actions that really benefit from a macro too saying it has been cast. It's a shame that out of group content it's completely useless, unless chocobo healing activates it (if it can).

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Originally Posted by Februs

I'm pretty sure they did hotfix that... I can't remember though. Been a while since I've gotten that one as my roulette, now that I think about it.

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They actually moved Fractal and Neverreap out of the Expert Roulette, so you won't see the unless you queue for the lv. 60 roulette.

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Originally Posted by Februs

You're right though. It is FAR more useful than most people give it credit for, especially when you consider that it doubles in utility by removing binds and heavies (most of them, anyway). Still, the obstinately long cooldown does restrict it's usage far more than is necessary. Considering how situational the move is, the CD is a bit of overkill. For example, your own example in Fractal. You could only use that move once in that fight. So, for one instance in that fight out of the 3 (on common average) times he uses that knockback you get a tiny advantage. Considering you can only use it the one time before you can never use it again, it seems redundant to even bother. It also doesn't change that, out of all my Pld moves, Tempered is by far the one I use least.

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I actually had a WHM once who released the chum mobs while he was charging the attack, negating the whole sequence (one of the smoothest runs I've had there).

I'll agree that the cooldown is an encumbrance on what would be a much more useful move, but I feel like the topic of useless Paladin moves has been beaten to death and back and back to death.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Again, very true. However, the mp drain caused by the move is far more dmging than the Hp you stand to gain, especially since you have a healer who should be healing you in the first place. So, again, not used as frequently for me as the rest of the moves.

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With that much incoming damage, it's never a race. By using that combo, I've allowed my FC WHM to spam Holy while keeping me up with Cure (rather than the more expensive heals she'd have to use otherwise). Any little bit of extra healing and mitigation helps, and when combined with Blood Price on big pulls, it usually turns out to be pretty MP-neutral most of the time, in my experience.

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Originally Posted by Februs

I'm pretty sure Dark passenger has actually been proved to be an inefficient use of Dark Arts. So that's another good example. The Hp gain on DA-Soul Eater is better for mitigation than the blind, especially since you are multiplying your Mp destruction by using DA and DP at the same time. It's better to pop DP on CD and use Soul Eater for mitigation. DP is still a dps gain, mind you, so I wouldn't say the move itself is a bottom feeder... but the additional effect caused by Dark Arts certainly fits the bill.

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It's too expensive for me to justify using, even if it is a DPS gain. I've found that the slower rhythm of MT DRK doesn't afford much in the way of extra MP, so DA-SE is where it's at.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Aw... C'mon. Stretch your imagination. It doesn't have to be "bad." Only something you just don't use as much.

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I never used Fracture, but that's 'cause I legit forgot it was there. XD

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

They actually moved Fractal and Neverreap out of the Expert Roulette, so you won't see the unless you queue for the lv. 60 roulette.

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I know, but for some strange reason I always get Nevverreap... Every. Single. Day. I swear, I'm gonna forget what the inside of Fractal looks like at this rate.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

I actually had a WHM once who released the chum mobs while he was charging the attack, negating the whole sequence (one of the smoothest runs I've had there). I'll agree that the cooldown is an encumbrance on what would be a much more useful move, but I feel like the topic of useless Paladin moves has been beaten to death and back and back to death.

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I've seen the same thing, but it's very rare. I think SE has hotfixed it a little as well (either that or it's glitching hard), because I recall a recent-ish run in which the healer did the same thing, but he resumed his normal rotation afterwards. Kinda caught us all off guard. In any case, I think the main issue is the CD for that move. It really is too long compared to the brief utility you get out of it (although I admit I do like how it lines up perfectly with the "Wash Away" mechanic of A3... though it's really close).

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

I never used Fracture, but that's 'cause I legit forgot it was there. XD

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Seems legit XD. A move you don't use is a move you don't use, right? lol

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

I don't tank (yet) but one of the big issues with Divine Veil in group content in that some healers don't know that they have to activate it.

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This is actually a common problem with Divine Veil. I try to make myself as noticeable as possible when casting it so that the healers know to use it, but it is a VERY RARE DAY when I get a healer who actually paid attention enough to activate it. It's one of the few moves I've actually considered putting a macro to, just because I cannot count the number of times that the effect of Divine Veil was activated after the AoE move I was hoping to help mitigate because they missed it or just didn't recognize the icon.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

DRG:
Feint - Really only good for low level soloing FATEs

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I hadn't even thought of other jobs XD. I definitely agree for Drg though. I stopped using that move a long time before 3.0. Totally useless. Don't know about the others, since I don't have a SCH or MCH.

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Originally Posted by Freyyy

Abyssal Drain spam is almost exactly the same than Unleash spam in terms of potency-per-MP.

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I actually wonder about this. I've always been curious how the enmity gen compares between these two moves, because I've seen instances where one tank was using Abyssal Drain and losing hate, while another used the exact same amount of Unleashes and kept aggro just fine. I've even been in A2 with a second Drk and run into problems. They used AD. I used Unleash. I held hate over them on most mobs and had a better Mp conservation... The Mp conservation thing was easy enough to explain (I most likely, didn't use as many DA's), but I couldn't figure out why I was dominating in Aggro. I don't think our gear levels were all that different (not enough to make a big discrepancy), so I've always been under the assumption that AD just has lower enmity gen than unleash.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

MCH:
Suppressive Fire - Good in theory but the incredibly small range (compared to Head Graze) make it difficult to use.

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I use this a lot when I'm soloing (I do my daily hunts on MCH to level up). Stun > Blank > Heavy keeps 'em off you for a while.

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SCH:
Miasma II - Only ever used if being chased by a hoard of mobs and you need to kite/get away, which rarely happens/helps, because the Weight it inflicts is pretty weak.

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It's great for getting another fast DoT up on trash packs in dungeons and places like A2.

Also great for putting Heavy on the adds in A3 because Duty Finder DPS.

As for mine... yeah, a lot of PLD's kit is just way too situational or the cooldowns are just too long. I have to say that I'm loving the hell out of Sheltron now with the new Shield Swipe. It's also friggin awesome for so many things in Thordan EX.

Divine Veil - used once in awhile (jumps in A1S, Ultimate End, any other time I know AoE damage is going to be high), but as mentioned by a previous poster it can be kind of a pain to get it activated sometimes. I tend to just use it when I know I'm getting healed anyway. Then there's the issue that not all healers know how it activates. I had one just not get procced at all because the WHM cast Regen on me instead of a Cure. Okay great, now I can't use it again for another 2 and a half minutes. It's decent mitigation, but it's just too fiddly in general imo and the cooldown is way too long for the amount of damage it prevents.

Cover - I love the concept behind it but again, it has a long cooldown. I do end up using it twice in A2S (both times on our WHM, lol).

Tempered Will - I wish this had a lower cooldown, given the fairly limited utility on it. I'd get a lot more use out of it if it did.

Clemency - can be kind of clunky to use, but I tend to look for places it's safe to self-heal. A good example is after the first Sacred Cross in Thordan EX, when you're waiting for the charges to go off. I self-heal so the healers can concentrate on getting the rest of the party topped off. If a healer gets Prey in A1S, I'll also self heal during Photon Spazer if I'm below half HP and I don't have to dodge the AoE. Definitely limited usage simply because it's got a long cast, is easily interrupted, and takes such a huge amount of mana.

Temp. Will does need some love. I use it fairly often but not nearly as often as it should get used. Works great in A3S/Neverreap and tons of old content that I don't feel like listing, but the big problem is the fights that have knockback use it 3 times per 1 cooldown rotation.

Divine Veil needs ALOT of love. Its way to convoluted to use most of the time. For what it does, it shouldn't require a healer to activate, and i also question if the range shouldn't be increased due to the size of most arenas we fight in raid wise.
Non-raid. It has no use. Solo... HA!

Awareness is.. meh.

Also, protect. Its pretty useless for PLD, but its better than raise/fracture/cure and all the other crappy skills we get to pick from.


As for DRK. I don't use Abyssal drain outside my mindless grinding of brayflox hard solo for that damn opoopo. I can effectively solo speed run it thanks to abyssal. Besides that, its use is limited. The MP cost is a bit to high, and is absurd if you want to proc the drain effect on it. I almost wish it always had the drain, but do something to balance it like make it an oGCD instead of a DA-GCD or just double the current MP Cost. Still less than a DA proc before it.

I actually find Unmend to be the most useless. Well, post-plunge at least.

Living dead. I have mixed emotions on this one. I think the 'undead' status effect should have an aura effect or SOMETHING to help notify healers.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Cover - I love the concept behind it but again, it has a long cooldown. I do end up using it twice in A2S (both times on our WHM, lol).

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One, CD should be much MUCH shorter.

Two, tether should be longer in my opinion. The proximity restriction tends to make the move even less useful, especially because, for some bizarre reason, a lot of healers I've covered tend to
run away from me. If you see a tether to the Pld, WHY ARE YOU RUNNING AWAY??

Lastly, I always thought Cover needed a slight adjustment. Like a % of all dmg covered should be converted to Hp, or Tp, or have some sort of AoE effect or... something that has synergy with the other tank... just something. That way, we'd have a reason to use it besides actively looking for someone who is standing in stupid. I mean, as it is, if everyone is actually doing their jobs and not being idiots you would never have to actually use Cover. That's silly. I shouldn't have to go out of my way to make use of a CD. It's use should have a readily available use.