Lock and Load: The Reassembled Machinist Guide

I don't agree with BiS list. I think that Gordian Hood of Aiming is better than Machinist's Googles.

http://i.imgur.com/65KO1Hh.png http://i.imgur.com/ssLvPjL.png

with Gordian Hood of Aiming you gain 17 Crit and you lose 58 Skill Speed.

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w/ GB
WD - 10.71
Dexterity - 1.000
Determination - 0.125
Critical Hit Rate - 0.140
Skill Speed - 0.020

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17 crit value = 2.38
58 Skill Speed value = 1.16

Out of values, Imo Crit is better than Skill Speed by far, and overcap accuracy is not a problem.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

I think you'd be much happier as a BRD if you want PvP burst damage, our only 'burst' is Wildfire which requires you to train a target for 15 seconds straight to get full utility - that's never gonna happen in PvP.

BRD have Barrage + Empyreal Arrow for a no setup, 660 potency nuke.

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FFS...... Thanks but no thanks.

any actual MCH opinions on PvP rotations/stats?

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Originally Posted by girlsimulation

mch is amazing in pvp. Rapid fire allows you to start up your procs so you can be mobile while attacking someone, you have lots of CC, and foot graze+between the eyes works out to be a ~700 potency instant damage ogcd before buffs.

My feeling is mch is maybe the best class for blowing a solo target up, and one of the best for overall damage output.

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^^ Exactly, looking at the skill templates, I figure RF opener to set up your procs, drop into GB for SS>GR>CS then FG+BtE, drop GB follow up with Wildfire and chase to kill. Spend your off time applying feint+Lead shot until youre open to burst another target dowm

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

17 crit value = 2.38
58 Skill Speed value = 1.16

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I'm actually rather curious to know if those stat weights are still accurate - and how they were derived in the first place. I wasn't around back when the original thread was new.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

FFS...... Thanks but no thanks.

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No one is going to stand around and let you complete a Wildfire on them like they do in PvE, but you're welcome to find that out for yourself.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

No one is going to stand around and let you complete a Wildfire on them like they do in PvE, but you're welcome to find that out for yourself.

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You wouldn't think ppl would let me get 3 fell cleaves off on them either, but I do it regularly.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

I think you'd be much happier as a BRD if you want PvP burst damage, our only 'burst' is Wildfire which requires you to train a target for 15 seconds straight to get full utility - that's never gonna happen in PvP.

BRD have Barrage + Empyreal Arrow for a no setup, 660 potency nuke.

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I disagree, ricochet + foot graze + between the eyes can absolutely nuke someone if they're not anticipating it. 300 pot + 180 pot (x3 so 540), 300+540=840

It's not always so simple when it comes to potencies since ranged damage is penalized depending on distance, and the BRD counterpart to Between the Eyes ignores this penalty.

It's one thing to wombo combo someone who isn't paying attention to you in perfect conditions, especially in Seize which is basically a zerg. Makes a nice video, but gimmicky, I think you can raise the bar a bit higher.

That's all you're going to get from me, I'm not going to clutter up the second edition of this PvE focused guide with PvP debate.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

I think you'd be much happier as a BRD if you want PvP burst damage, our only 'burst' is Wildfire which requires you to train a target for 15 seconds straight to get full utility - that's never gonna happen in PvP.

BRD have Barrage + Empyreal Arrow for a no setup, 660 potency nuke.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Opinions on PvP? I have been leveling my MCH on the basis (looking at actions/pvp actions) that MCH Burst would be OP, I'll post my theorycraft rotations if you like, but if anyone playing a lvl 60 MCH extensively has done a lot of PvP, I'd rather see your opinions and accounts. Also, again theorycraft, but I believe in regards to PvP, stats would be Skillsp 540>Det>Crit? Thoughts?

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MCH's burst is more on-the-go than BRD and more reliable since it doesn't require them to be standing still (keeping in mind the ranged damage penalty). Traited BtE in perfect circumstances is a 540 potency hit and it's comparable to a barraged empryeal (which has a cast time attached to it), on top of Gauss Round, Ricochet, Reassemvled Cleanshot + with ammo, slug shot and clean shot again. Bard needs to apply both DoTs and get enough time to stand still to sweet spot their barraged empyreal then hit with sidewinder.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

It's not always so simple when it comes to potencies since ranged damage is penalized depending on distance, and the BRD counterpart to Between the Eyes ignores this penalty.

It's one thing to wombo combo someone who isn't paying attention to you in perfect conditions, especially in Seize which is basically a zerg. Makes a nice video, but gimmicky, I think you can raise the bar a bit higher.

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They already reduced the damage penalty for being further than 15 yalms, and farshot is only 200 potency. And the conditions really isn't as situational as you'd think, the span of Foot graze+BtE is near instantaneous unless they purify it. That being said though, wildfire can be cleansed by esuna or similair abilties. It takes way too long to trigger and if they haven't died from your initial burst, then honestly they arent gonna be dying to your wildfire either even if it does go off.

PvP itself is a completely different beast; there's no set rotations for anything and it boils down to playing with what comes at you.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

I don't agree with BiS list. I think that Gordian Hood of Aiming is better than Machinist's Googles.

http://i.imgur.com/65KO1Hh.png http://i.imgur.com/ssLvPjL.png

with Gordian Hood of Aiming you gain 17 Crit and you lose 58 Skill Speed.

those are old stat weights; si



17 crit value = 2.38
58 Skill Speed value = 1.16

Out of values, Imo Crit is better than Skill Speed by far, and overcap accuracy is not a problem.

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those are old stat weights centered around only the opener iirc; skillspeed is definitely not that low

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

for the opener, an alternative to accommodate a late TA/disembowel would go like...snip

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I will add this in for people playing with a new group trying to figure out their DRG debuff timings. Our DRG is usually really good about getting that rolling early so it never really came to my mind.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Opinions on PvP? I have been leveling my MCH on the basis (looking at actions/pvp actions) that MCH Burst would be OP

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Currently Rank 25 with Maelstrom (Its hard to PvP tons with a 2 year old running around) and I find MCH to be just fine. If I find a target that needs to die with all of the tools we have, we can drop someone rather fast. Group support and node defense is rather solid too with the AoE we have and ability to peel for healers. Will be interesting to see the next Wolves Den to see where we fit.

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Originally Posted by Greywolfamakir

I don't agree with BiS list. I think that Gordian Hood of Aiming is better than Machinist's Googles.

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I believe we had this discussion before, but I personally find the stat gain from the SkillSpeed to be better than the wasted 41 accuracy. There is no other combination of gear that still gives the crit and det numbers we have that allows you to properly use that 41 accuracy.

Here is the difference in stats when swapping helmets as you propose. The top one is the guide's BiS list, the bottom is yours.

DEX - Acc - Crit - Det - SkS - Vit (just incase you did not know the order for the stats from Ariyala's page.)

http://imgur.com/B4Kgh6v.jpeg

http://imgur.com/BetmFAP.jpeg

With an accuracy cap for a4s of around 650 to 655, i personally do not see the swap in helms to be worth the 17 crit raiting

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Originally Posted by Myon88

I'm actually rather curious to know if those stat weights are still accurate - and how they were derived in the first place. I wasn't around back when the original thread was new.

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Overall the stat weights are in the correct order, but SkS is not as low as this states. I am still trying to work with Xero and Dervy to get corrected weights for us and will probably post something here for people to try out to assist in getting corrected numbers.