Proposed changes to Tank jobs

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Originally Posted by Seshayn

Why do you think everything I would propose should be considered a "good" change? I would rather see tank abilities fit a theme than be omg so good. I imagine a warrior entering a state where when hit, they slap their chest and scream STOP TRYIN TO HIT ME AND HIT ME! THAT'S IT! and just berserk psychopathing it up through sheer force of will and intimidation.

Parry is more elegant. More sword less axe. These were just spitballed ideas I had. Like I said, I would want to see more of a theme, especially with warriors and dark knights, as I feel Paladins already kind of have their theme. Low damage, high survival, great support kit.

Edit for clarification: I meant every time the warrior is hit, they are healed for 5% of their health (if they have 5 stacks) for 10 seconds, not that they receive 1-5% increased healing.

I just imagine warriors as... Tryndamere from League of Legends. The lower health they get, the stronger they are. That thing that just will not die no matter how hard you kill it.

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The only reason I take issue is you are nerfing a skill from being a 20% damage reduction to non-magic damage and making it only useful on trash because 1-5% total HP returned for 1 attack from a boss for 10s which would be what roughly 5 auto attacks? =/= 20% damage reduction for 20s with a crit hitting downside if used wrongly.

Granted yes a theme is nice but you could also argue that they are all "GRAAAAH STOP TRYIN TO HIT ME AND HIT ME! THAT'S IT!" aka sheer force of will and intimidation to reduce incoming damage from the front while also focusing their attention forward thus why they take critical damage from the flank and back.

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Originally Posted by Ceodore

Your ideas of changes make me cringe as if I took a cactus and sat on it...

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I didn't suggest Sheltron have a 10-15s cooldown. I suggested Sheltron block the next two attacks instead of one and that the cooldown be increased by 10-15 seconds.

20% was probably a bit much for clemency without giving it a 15-20s cooldown.

Shield swipe should be off the global cooldown and should have a 15 second recast time. I stick to my guns on this.

I'm fine with stances being on the global cooldown and costing MP. If you think it's fine that they interrupt your combo's, well... I just don't like it. Agree to disagree.

My version of warrior sounds fun :(

I tried to find you a cactus, but I couldnt find it :(

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Originally Posted by PotatoWafflez

How is that a good change? You want to get 1-5% healing instead of a flat 20% damage reduction to anything that isn't magic based? You can combo it with Awareness and not even get the downside granted there are a few seconds where it wont overlap due to duration time but still.

I will agree that DRK would benefit more from having a skill that has a 100% Parry rate but the fact it already borrows mitigation skills from PLD more or less doesn't mean it should take the Parry skill off of the WAR but it could be modified to add something for DRK due to the loss of stack generation.

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I can't say I agree with Seshayn on the parry removal, because it does have a down side to the skill. However, I do feel it is a bit of a slight towards Paladin's Bulwark that it is a 100% guarantee parry and that the down side can be negated with Awareness. Especially with block also taking a huge nerf from the removal of strength's effect, and that Bulwark is on a much longer cooldown. Given the cooldown, I would have capped it at a 50% increase with no detriment from being hit on the side or back. But that's just me. It didn't make Warriors OP at all, since anything that can be parried can also still be blocked, and Bulwark might as well be 100% given how much it increases. I just don't like that the cooldown for it is 90 second while my Awareness is 120 seconds, so I have to wait 30 more seconds to negate the downside of the buff for only 3/4s of the duration. Again, that's me. Overall, it's a great skill still and is much needed on both of the other tanks.

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Originally Posted by Seshayn

Shield swipe should be off the global cooldown and should have a 15 second recast time. I stick to my guns on this.

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You had me nodding yes even though I still don't think sheltron needs a change, until I read this. Shield Swipe, currently, is one of the main ways Paladins recover TP. Taking it off the GCD would mean we would have no real TP recovery on our own to help us sustain ourselves. With it being on the GCD, we essentially get about 2.5 seconds to recover another tick of TP. This is why I suggest leaving it on the GCD and removing the TP cost. Further, I'd remove the pacification too for more damage. There isn't anything in the game where I really need pacification where I couldn't also use stun just as effectively. And further, the fact that it requires a block to be used makes the pacification even more difficult to trigger at the right time. So, my suggestion is to take what it's truly being used for at the moment (TP recovery) and boost that capability just a little while adding a small amount of DPS by increasing potency from 210 to about 250. Clemency recovering TP is not what I'd suggest, because for 1, you would have to crit, and two, it's an HP recovery skill already. It also already has a big benefit for casting it on someone besides yourself, because if you cast it on yourself, you don't get the additional 50% healing to yourself. I generally use it when I'm OT, or if my OT is being beaten on by adds.

The main way I recover TP is stoneskin on people who are having trouble not being hit by things. Clemency if I am feeling sassy! While using Shield Swipe on command is a great way to regen tp, I agree, I'm more of a mother hen when it comes to how I tank. I agree tho, I had forgotten that it was a more offensive way to regenerate tp and will concede that it shouldnt be off the global.

We SHOULD get more time to use it though. I can't tell you how many times I am about to use it and am just a fraction of a global late.

The clemency crit restoring tp really only serves as incentive to use it on other people. Most tanks I see use it on themselves. I tend to snipe it on dps who I see are not going to avoid avoidable damage, and time it so that the healers have 1 less thing to worry bout.

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Originally Posted by SerahMuril

PLD I personally feel with current gear has massive TP issues (I run dry before the second set of adds in A1 while using Shield Swipe as much as possible) so I think just removing the TP cost of Shield Swipe will fix most of that; or for the love of god stop putting skill speed on tank armor.

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Alternately change one or more skills to use MP instead of TP...

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Originally Posted by Seshayn

We SHOULD get more time to use it though. I can't tell you how many times I am about to use it and am just a fraction of a global late.

The clemency crit restoring tp really only serves as incentive to use it on other people. Most tanks I see use it on themselves. I tend to snipe it on dps who I see are not going to avoid avoidable damage, and time it so that the healers have 1 less thing to worry bout.

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I use Shield Swipe the very instant it triggers. In fact, I have my skills macroed in a way that I use Shield Swipe before any of my other combo skills. This doesn't bother my combos either, as there is a lot of time to continue a combo. I usually pop Bulwark if I haven't started a combo too, so that that 15 seconds, all I'm really doing is just Shield Swiping continuously. As far as Clemency goes, it a tank is using it on themselves, then they are failing to use the skill to the full potential anyways, and should be slapped across the face with their own sword. There is no reason to use it on yourself, and with the higher HP pools, Stoneskin is a much more potent mitigation for the MP cost anyways. Further, if it's getting so bad that you are having to heal yourself, you're likely being hit so hard that you won't finish the cast anyways.

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Originally Posted by Seshayn

Paladin:
I would like to see Shield Swipe either taken off the global cooldown and given a 15-30s recast time, or be given an aditional 2-3 seconds that it remains useable after a block

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I've been thinking this for a LONG time. My idea would be the remove the TP cost, take it off global, but give it the same 30 sec cooldown Reprisal has (Dark Knight). Just my two cents and I'd love to get more PLD's talking about it.

I have zero issues with tp running out. Are you guys throwing your shield around too much, fights going on too long? If I'm in a long fight due to sub par dps, then I'll just flash here and there to keep aggro and gain some tp back. I think it will get better when we can finally see tp bars in the party menu so ninjas and bards can help with it easier. This is all paladin of course. I can't speak to warrior or dk tp issues.

War: Fine as is


Blind (Pal/Drk) Should effect all mobs, but be nerfed to only affect auto attacks.
Paladin Only:
Shield Swipe should be off GCD, cost no tp, but with a CD of 5 seconds (and retain its requirement to be proced off a block). Remove pacification--this is largely useless anyways.
Clemency: While in Shield Oath, cannot be interrupted. Casting does not prevent Paladins from Parry or Blocking attacks.
Circle of Scorn: Striking more than 3 targets with Circle of Scorn reduces the recast to 15 seconds.
Sheltron: While active, Sheltron allows the Paladin to attempt to block the next attack regardless of type (physical or magical).
Spirits Within: Reduced potency based off remaining health, removed.
Hallowed Ground: Effect begins immediately--not after the 1 second animation. Honestly, this ability will go ON COOLDOWN and you still can die in the opening moments.

DRK:
Abyssal Drain: Increased emnity removed, mana cost reduced. Health steal is made part of the basic attack(does not need dark arts). Dark Arts Effects changed to ALSO drain mana from each target struck.
Blood Weapon: Increased CD to 1 minute. Works in Grit.
Soul Survivor: If the target does not die before the cast is finished, the Dark Regains 200 TP.
Dark Passenger: Mana Cost Reduced, Cooldown Increased. Blind is part of the base cast. Dark Arts Benefit: Effected targets are also effected by Slow.

I find it interesting that Dark Knights excel at tanking magic damage just like Death Knights did in WotLK, and in this and that, both of them were considered weak at first. But, Death Knights ended up being used effectively throughout the expansion, and because Blizzard buffed them since the community kept complaining, they ended up being completely overpowered.

Just, something to think about when you're talking about buffing and nerfing classes this early in an expansion.