Proposed changes to Tank jobs

[SerahMuril]

Firstly I just want to say WAR is fine it doesn't need changes (I do not play WAR I have a lvl 60 PLD and DRK).

PLD I personally feel with current gear has massive TP issues (I run dry before the second set of adds in A1 while using Shield Swipe as much as possible) so I think just removing the TP cost of Shield Swipe will fix most of that; or for the love of god stop putting skill speed on tank armor.

DRK though needs some changes to make it more viable as a tank when comparing it to WAR and PLD. As it stands right now PLD and WAR bring so much more utility to a raid than a DRK does that there is no reason why you would want to bring a DRK over them.

that 1000 char limit =(

[SerahMuril]

IE a PLD has the best mitigation plus it brings utility with its heal, cover, Divine Veil, and a STR debuff. (An extremely powerful MT)

WAR has DPS similar to a melee dps with average mitigation plus a dmg delt debuff and slashing dmg buff (and extremely powerful OT)

What does DRK bring? an int debuff (that is shared with mnk), a dmg debuff that can only be used while mting and not up 100% of the time, good OT dps for 2 minutes and 30 seconds (then you run dry), good aoe tanking(aoe dps is horrible when not tanking), and slightly and I mean slightly more magic mitigation over a PLD.

To me it looks like what SE wants is for PLD to be the physical tank, DRK the Magic tank, and WAR the OT. But, as it stands now DRK is not better than PLD as a magic dmg tank, PLD just brings more utility for just slightly less magic mitigation and there is no reason why you would want a DRK over a PLD.

[SerahMuril]

As for MTing DRK needs some help with mitigation and again it doesn't need much.

Living Dead: Remove the death effect... really that is just a stupid mechanic; or if you must keep it then change it to 50% of total health and lower the CD to 3 min

Souleater: increase healing to 150-200% and add "Dark Arts Effect: add a magic damage shield for 100% of health restored (including overheal, so that you will still get the shield if used at full) OR add 150-200% magic dmg shield of the damage delt while in grit stance and remove the DA requirements for the shield

Dark Arts:Remove evasion buff with DA changed to increase parry rate to 60-80% (alla bulwark)

IMO with these changes DRK will become a Strong Magic dmg tank that you would rather have over a PLD for fights like A4 where almost all if not all of the dmg is magic based and the overall playstyle of dark would not change.

[Seshayn]

The combo potency of Butchers Block lowered so that it isn't the highest potency combo spam. (if it isn't, my mistake, my warrior is... rusty.)
Remake their stun to be an AOE stun. Like, they jump up and slam into the ground, causing stun for 4s and heavy for 10s to all targets within 15 yalms
Removal of the parry 100% skill and instead work it to be called something like "May I have another" Where every time they are hit for 10s they receive a 1-5% heal based on how many stacks they have
Returning the Storm's path debuff to bards
An attack that lowers a target's determination for 6 seconds. Useable only after they take damage greater than 25% of their HP in a single attack.

Dark Knight:
The Warriors parry all the things skill belongs here
the 20% dodge chance for dark arts dark dance to be either increased to 30%, a 10-15% damage reductin, or another 20% parry
Soul Eater should be moved to be a third part combo for hard Slash/Spinning Slash.
Blood weapon useable in Grit, but given a 12s duration instead of a 15
Dark Mind increased to 15s

[PotatoWafflez]

Removal of the parry 100% skill and instead work it to be called something like "May I have another" Where every time they are hit for 10s they receive a 1-5% heal based on how many stacks they have

How is that a good change? You want to get 1-5% healing instead of a flat 20% damage reduction to anything that isn't magic based? You can combo it with Awareness and not even get the downside granted there are a few seconds where it wont overlap due to duration time but still.

I will agree that DRK would benefit more from having a skill that has a 100% Parry rate but the fact it already borrows mitigation skills from PLD more or less doesn't mean it should take the Parry skill off of the WAR but it could be modified to add something for DRK due to the loss of stack generation.

[Seshayn]

How is that a good change? You want to get 1-5% healing instead of a flat 20% damage reduction to anything that isn't magic based? You can combo it with Awareness and not even get the downside granted there are a few seconds where it wont overlap due to duration time but still.

I will agree that DRK would benefit more from having a skill that has a 100% Parry rate but the fact it already borrows mitigation skills from PLD more or less doesn't mean it should take the Parry skill off of the WAR but it could be modified to add something for DRK due to the lost of stack generation.

Why do you think everything I would propose should be considered a "good" change? I would rather see tank abilities fit a theme than be omg so good. I imagine a warrior entering a state where when hit, they slap their chest and scream STOP TRYIN TO HIT ME AND HIT ME! THAT'S IT! and just berserk psychopathing it up through sheer force of will and intimidation.

Parry is more elegant. More sword less axe. These were just spitballed ideas I had. Like I said, I would want to see more of a theme, especially with warriors and dark knights, as I feel Paladins already kind of have their theme. Low damage, high survival, great support kit.

Edit for clarification: I meant every time the warrior is hit, they are healed for 5% of their health (if they have 5 stacks) for 10 seconds, not that they receive 1-5% increased healing.

I just imagine warriors as... Tryndamere from League of Legends. The lower health they get, the stronger they are. That thing that just will not die no matter how hard you kill it.

[Ceodore]

How is that a good change? You want to get 1-5% healing instead of a flat 20% damage reduction to anything that isn't magic based? You can combo it with Awareness and not even get the downside granted there are a few seconds where it wont overlap due to duration time but still.

I will agree that DRK would benefit more from having a skill that has a 100% Parry rate but the fact it already borrows mitigation skills from PLD more or less doesn't mean it should take the Parry skill off of the WAR but it could be modified to add something for DRK due to the loss of stack generation.

I can't say I agree with Seshayn on the parry removal, because it does have a down side to the skill. However, I do feel it is a bit of a slight towards Paladin's Bulwark that it is a 100% guarantee parry and that the down side can be negated with Awareness. Especially with block also taking a huge nerf from the removal of strength's effect, and that Bulwark is on a much longer cooldown. Given the cooldown, I would have capped it at a 50% increase with no detriment from being hit on the side or back. But that's just me. It didn't make Warriors OP at all, since anything that can be parried can also still be blocked, and Bulwark might as well be 100% given how much it increases. I just don't like that the cooldown for it is 90 second while my Awareness is 120 seconds, so I have to wait 30 more seconds to negate the downside of the buff for only 3/4s of the duration. Again, that's me. Overall, it's a great skill still and is much needed on both of the other tanks.

Shield swipe should be off the global cooldown and should have a 15 second recast time. I stick to my guns on this.

You had me nodding yes even though I still don't think sheltron needs a change, until I read this. Shield Swipe, currently, is one of the main ways Paladins recover TP. Taking it off the GCD would mean we would have no real TP recovery on our own to help us sustain ourselves. With it being on the GCD, we essentially get about 2.5 seconds to recover another tick of TP. This is why I suggest leaving it on the GCD and removing the TP cost. Further, I'd remove the pacification too for more damage. There isn't anything in the game where I really need pacification where I couldn't also use stun just as effectively. And further, the fact that it requires a block to be used makes the pacification even more difficult to trigger at the right time. So, my suggestion is to take what it's truly being used for at the moment (TP recovery) and boost that capability just a little while adding a small amount of DPS by increasing potency from 210 to about 250. Clemency recovering TP is not what I'd suggest, because for 1, you would have to crit, and two, it's an HP recovery skill already. It also already has a big benefit for casting it on someone besides yourself, because if you cast it on yourself, you don't get the additional 50% healing to yourself. I generally use it when I'm OT, or if my OT is being beaten on by adds.

[SerahMuril]

So DRK needs some love and I have thought of ways to keep it different than the other tanks yet become a viable replacement for the other tanks.

Firstly for DRK to be an effective OT it really just needs 2 changes imo.
Reprisal: Remove the parry requirement. if that is too strong because it stacks with wars then also increase the CD (while out of grit) so it will be used primarily to mitigate big hits when you are an OT.

Delirium Add "Dark Arts Effect: When not in Grit adds 150-200(would need testing for balance) TP

and then walla the DRK's TP issue would be gone and would give utility to OTing.

[Seshayn]

Paladin:
I would like to see Shield Swipe either taken off the global cooldown and given a 15-30s recast time, or be given an aditional 2-3 seconds that it remains useable after a block
I would like to see Clemency Critical Hits on other party members restore 100 TP to the Paladin who cast it
I would like to see Oaths not interrupt current combo chains
I would like to see Shelltron block the next 2 physical attacks, and perhaps increase the recast by 10-15s (or perhaps change it to regen TP instead of MP)
I would like to see Clemency's mp cost reduced by about 20%

Warriors:
For 2 seconds after Holmgang expires they are immune to physical damage, but also stun you for those 2 seconds
Some real support abilities in exchange for scaling some of their damage down. (Intervene from WoW comes to mind)
Also, some type of roar, bolstering the effectiveness of allies, like Battle Litany. A shout giving determination up for a brief time seems to fit the theme

[Papi_Nopapi]

Paladin:
I would like to see Shield Swipe either taken off the global cooldown and given a 15-30s recast time, or be given an aditional 2-3 seconds that it remains useable after a block

I've been thinking this for a LONG time. My idea would be the remove the TP cost, take it off global, but give it the same 30 sec cooldown Reprisal has (Dark Knight). Just my two cents and I'd love to get more PLD's talking about it.