Proposed changes to Tank jobs

[SerahMuril]

Firstly I just want to say WAR is fine it doesn't need changes (I do not play WAR I have a lvl 60 PLD and DRK).

PLD I personally feel with current gear has massive TP issues (I run dry before the second set of adds in A1 while using Shield Swipe as much as possible) so I think just removing the TP cost of Shield Swipe will fix most of that; or for the love of god stop putting skill speed on tank armor.

DRK though needs some changes to make it more viable as a tank when comparing it to WAR and PLD. As it stands right now PLD and WAR bring so much more utility to a raid than a DRK does that there is no reason why you would want to bring a DRK over them.

that 1000 char limit =(

[SerahMuril]

IE a PLD has the best mitigation plus it brings utility with its heal, cover, Divine Veil, and a STR debuff. (An extremely powerful MT)

WAR has DPS similar to a melee dps with average mitigation plus a dmg delt debuff and slashing dmg buff (and extremely powerful OT)

What does DRK bring? an int debuff (that is shared with mnk), a dmg debuff that can only be used while mting and not up 100% of the time, good OT dps for 2 minutes and 30 seconds (then you run dry), good aoe tanking(aoe dps is horrible when not tanking), and slightly and I mean slightly more magic mitigation over a PLD.

To me it looks like what SE wants is for PLD to be the physical tank, DRK the Magic tank, and WAR the OT. But, as it stands now DRK is not better than PLD as a magic dmg tank, PLD just brings more utility for just slightly less magic mitigation and there is no reason why you would want a DRK over a PLD.

[SerahMuril]

So DRK needs some love and I have thought of ways to keep it different than the other tanks yet become a viable replacement for the other tanks.

Firstly for DRK to be an effective OT it really just needs 2 changes imo.
Reprisal: Remove the parry requirement. if that is too strong because it stacks with wars then also increase the CD (while out of grit) so it will be used primarily to mitigate big hits when you are an OT.

Delirium Add "Dark Arts Effect: When not in Grit adds 150-200(would need testing for balance) TP

and then walla the DRK's TP issue would be gone and would give utility to OTing.

[SerahMuril]

As for MTing DRK needs some help with mitigation and again it doesn't need much.

Living Dead: Remove the death effect... really that is just a stupid mechanic; or if you must keep it then change it to 50% of total health and lower the CD to 3 min

Souleater: increase healing to 150-200% and add "Dark Arts Effect: add a magic damage shield for 100% of health restored (including overheal, so that you will still get the shield if used at full) OR add 150-200% magic dmg shield of the damage delt while in grit stance and remove the DA requirements for the shield

Dark Arts:Remove evasion buff with DA changed to increase parry rate to 60-80% (alla bulwark)

IMO with these changes DRK will become a Strong Magic dmg tank that you would rather have over a PLD for fights like A4 where almost all if not all of the dmg is magic based and the overall playstyle of dark would not change.

[Seshayn]

Paladin:
I would like to see Shield Swipe either taken off the global cooldown and given a 15-30s recast time, or be given an aditional 2-3 seconds that it remains useable after a block
I would like to see Clemency Critical Hits on other party members restore 100 TP to the Paladin who cast it
I would like to see Oaths not interrupt current combo chains
I would like to see Shelltron block the next 2 physical attacks, and perhaps increase the recast by 10-15s (or perhaps change it to regen TP instead of MP)
I would like to see Clemency's mp cost reduced by about 20%

Warriors:
For 2 seconds after Holmgang expires they are immune to physical damage, but also stun you for those 2 seconds
Some real support abilities in exchange for scaling some of their damage down. (Intervene from WoW comes to mind)
Also, some type of roar, bolstering the effectiveness of allies, like Battle Litany. A shout giving determination up for a brief time seems to fit the theme

[Seshayn]

The combo potency of Butchers Block lowered so that it isn't the highest potency combo spam. (if it isn't, my mistake, my warrior is... rusty.)
Remake their stun to be an AOE stun. Like, they jump up and slam into the ground, causing stun for 4s and heavy for 10s to all targets within 15 yalms
Removal of the parry 100% skill and instead work it to be called something like "May I have another" Where every time they are hit for 10s they receive a 1-5% heal based on how many stacks they have
Returning the Storm's path debuff to bards
An attack that lowers a target's determination for 6 seconds. Useable only after they take damage greater than 25% of their HP in a single attack.

Dark Knight:
The Warriors parry all the things skill belongs here
the 20% dodge chance for dark arts dark dance to be either increased to 30%, a 10-15% damage reductin, or another 20% parry
Soul Eater should be moved to be a third part combo for hard Slash/Spinning Slash.
Blood weapon useable in Grit, but given a 12s duration instead of a 15
Dark Mind increased to 15s

[Ceodore]

Looking to by pass character limit? Copy, Delete 90% of post, submit, edit post, paste, resubmit post...

Anyways, to just help you understand some things. The Warrior's Slashing Debuff is also shared with Ninja's Slashing debuff. I understand the TP issues on some classes, but at the same time, I don't feel that it should be so simple to manage. Yes, sometimes, only sometimes, I run into a tiny TP issue in fights, but I find MOST fights have down times where I recover TP. And if it's really a problem, we now have 3 dps classes that can offer us some support.

If a change is REQUIRED, I'd remove the TP cost of Shield Swipe all together, as well as the pacification in return for a slight damage buff to the skill. There are very few times where I make use of a pacification debuff that ONLY triggers if I block. I'd say in return for removing pacification, increase the potency to something like 250. As it stands, the potency is so small, you actually lose DPS on some rotations when using it. It should remain otherwise just as it is.

The other skills on Paladin are honestly perfect. There isn't a thing I would change to any of the others. Sheltron is perfect really, since it shouldn't be something that can be used as often as 10-15 seconds at all, otherwise we're looking at a massive defensive boost against physical attacks. Returning MP is just fine to me too, because it comes in handy when I want a third Clemency cast. Clemency's cost needs to stay where it is, because more than 2 or 3 casts at a time is a bit much when you compare it to Warrior's Equilibrium. Then you couple in the fact that we can cast it on other people to do more total healing, and that it scales with my Strength instead of Mind, you're talking about a massive amount of healing when running Strength trinkets. I've crit for 6k on Clemency when running Strength trinkets. The skill is just fine being expensive. The only thing I'd like to see changed to it is for it to trigger our Divine Veil. IF the oaths are turned to be more like Warrior stances, then they need at least a 5 second cooldown. Frankly, I'm fine with them as they are.

-snip-

Your ideas of changes make me cringe as if I took a cactus and sat on it...

-snip-

For you, my purposed changes for Dark Knight might be simpler, and more in theme for the class. I do agree with Reprisal needing work. Many changes have been suggested too. Yours works well too, but I wouldn't increase the CD.

Darkside: Remove this skill's ability to stack with Grit to create an off tank stance instead. Remove the MP drain on the skill as well. Also remove the requirement to have this skill on to use certain defensive cooldowns such as Dark Dance, Dark Mind, etc.
Blood Price: Change the skill to only be usable while under Grit. Returns MP still. Add a 10% damage reduction buff for the duration.
Blood Weapon: Keep the Darkside requirement. Change the MP return to trigger with ALL forms of damage. Change the skill speed buff to a 10% increase in damage. (Skill speed can be a double edge sword which causes more TP drain)
Dark Arts: No longer effects Dark Mind, Dark Passenger, Dark Dance, Carve and Spit, or Abyssal Drain. I'll get to these. Dark Arts also now removes the TP requirement for the skills it effects, i.e. Power Slash and Soul Eater. (Essentially a TP refreshing skill at the cost of MP)
Dark Mind: Always a 30% magic damage reduction, same duration
Dark Passenger: Always a 250 potency with a blind for same duration
Dark Dance: Increase Parry rate to 40%, same duration.
Carve and Spit: Always do 450 potency and recover MP.
Abyssal drain: Always drain HP. Remove the Enmity increase.

I'm not sure about changes to Living Dead personally. I'm actually fine with the current skill, because it shouldn't be required to use in the first place, just like Holmgang and Hallowed Ground. But changes I believe could work are as follows:
- Aetherial Conversion: Should the player's HP drop to 1 during the buff's duration, instantly swap the HP and MP of the player
- Reaper's Denial: Should the player's HP drop to 1 during the buff's duration, instantly restores the player's HP to 100%

[AckersFury]

yep, TP on pld runs out super fast, finding myself having to just sit and autoattack to get it back up, which isnt great when there's so many dps checks, maybe stick some kinda TP gain to royal authority

[PotatoWafflez]

Removal of the parry 100% skill and instead work it to be called something like "May I have another" Where every time they are hit for 10s they receive a 1-5% heal based on how many stacks they have

How is that a good change? You want to get 1-5% healing instead of a flat 20% damage reduction to anything that isn't magic based? You can combo it with Awareness and not even get the downside granted there are a few seconds where it wont overlap due to duration time but still.

I will agree that DRK would benefit more from having a skill that has a 100% Parry rate but the fact it already borrows mitigation skills from PLD more or less doesn't mean it should take the Parry skill off of the WAR but it could be modified to add something for DRK due to the loss of stack generation.

[Seshayn]

How is that a good change? You want to get 1-5% healing instead of a flat 20% damage reduction to anything that isn't magic based? You can combo it with Awareness and not even get the downside granted there are a few seconds where it wont overlap due to duration time but still.

I will agree that DRK would benefit more from having a skill that has a 100% Parry rate but the fact it already borrows mitigation skills from PLD more or less doesn't mean it should take the Parry skill off of the WAR but it could be modified to add something for DRK due to the lost of stack generation.

Why do you think everything I would propose should be considered a "good" change? I would rather see tank abilities fit a theme than be omg so good. I imagine a warrior entering a state where when hit, they slap their chest and scream STOP TRYIN TO HIT ME AND HIT ME! THAT'S IT! and just berserk psychopathing it up through sheer force of will and intimidation.

Parry is more elegant. More sword less axe. These were just spitballed ideas I had. Like I said, I would want to see more of a theme, especially with warriors and dark knights, as I feel Paladins already kind of have their theme. Low damage, high survival, great support kit.

Edit for clarification: I meant every time the warrior is hit, they are healed for 5% of their health (if they have 5 stacks) for 10 seconds, not that they receive 1-5% increased healing.

I just imagine warriors as... Tryndamere from League of Legends. The lower health they get, the stronger they are. That thing that just will not die no matter how hard you kill it.