Shouldn't DRG be top DPS?

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Originally Posted by DenebPunkin

Missing or using mudras require no skill. AS it stands, Ninja is the least skill oriented class... well technically all 3 melee have a very specific rotation to obtain maximum DPS... so the only skill needed is memorizing the rotation.

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There is no class in this game that requires skill in that case, because it's all about getting used to your job.
Once you're past that point everything is piss easy because it's all about memorizing your rotation, aye there is a priority system in this game Ninjas have it too but in the end it's still a set rotiation, the priority only comes when you mess it up and/or you're disonnected for a short time in a fight.
Even then since all fights are scriptet you'll have most of the time a fixed rotation because you know exactly when a mechanic happens.
Ninja is easy, Monk is easy, Dragoon is easy. Melee DPS in a nutshell, yet only few can actually play them well.

Back to topic, should Dragoon do more damage than the other melees?
No.
I'm all for a lil'bit more utility but they hardly deserve a futher buff in their DPS as they are fine where they are.
Dragoons have the highest survibility by far from all dps now, just to toss in that lil something.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

Dragoons have the highest survibility by far from all dps now

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Actually its extremely miniscule. We are talking about a few hundred HP more, its not changing much.
Physical defense is still mainly relevant in soloing only, rather than endgame, and when it comes to magic defense, casters have the highest survivability by quite a bit (unless you count MNK in FOE, in which case that would be the dps with the highest survivability).

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Originally Posted by Dervy

I feel people who make threads like these should get banned off the forums. It adds no value to discussion; instead starts banal arguments and e-peen wars.

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I'm usually a fan of your posts Dervy, but this is the worst thing I've ever seen you post.

There is nothing wrong with discussing class balance. It is, in part, what the forums are for. The OP did not make a "waaaah my class should be OP" thread, they were trying to start a legitimate discussion about class balance and they even stated they do not Main the job in question so have little personal stake in it.

The OP also makes a valid point.
In my experience with various mmo's, the dps class with the least utility is the one with the highest dps potential. This is not the case in FF14. Now we can discuss fragility of GL and survivability, etc, but the point remains.

Monk has arguably the strongest utility of the melee classes until you totally overgear things, and it can be argued that the dps DRG adds to the BRD does not bring it up to the total dps contribution of the Monk. But even if Disembowel did bring the contributed raid dps of DRG up to the level of Monk, it has zero other utility while Monk has some nice utility remaining. You can also argue that DRG has better survivability and so survivability+utility+dps for the 2 classes is equal, but really Monk has on-demand Fist of Earth that really throws a wrench in this argument imo.

Anyway, civil discussion is good and shouldn't be discouraged just because some nutbag will inevitably come in here waving his epeen.

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Originally Posted by Dyne_Fellpool

I'm usually a fan of your posts Dervy, but this is the worst thing I've ever seen you post.

There is nothing wrong with discussing class balance. It is, in part, what the forums are for. The OP did not make a "waaaah my class should be OP" thread, they were trying to start a legitimate discussion about class balance and they even stated they do not Main the job in question so have little personal stake in it.
.

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Oh, I love balance. Don't get me wrong. Whenever I feel there's a necessity for job balance, I'm always the first person to rant and prove with numbers why there needs to be a change. Summoner definitely needs a rework (which they're getting in 3.0) and I'm glad. Some of the discussions on how to improve the Summoner are pretty interesting and unique in a way. The same was with the Warrior and original Dragoon changes in 2.1.


But I'm just kind of fed-up seeing the same type of posts every single week where the first post nearly always states the exact same arguments to support their reasoning, then the replies are exact replica's of arguments. I can look at the title and guess all the points made by OP and some of the replies by other players. 90% of the time, my guess is accurate.

"lol disembowel, slashing resist, monk too much utility, derp loldrg no utility". Eventually, someone does come in flopping their big e-peen around. Happens all the time.

There's no need for a new topic about discussion every 3 days about the exact same things. There's even one saying how the Monk is absolutely garbage (I nearly fell off my chair when I read that topic). I want more discussions and posts which aren't just the same things over and over and over and over again, just with a different thread title.

Am I wrong to say that nothing needs to be done? Yes, I'd be wrong in saying that. The Dragoon, Ninja and Monk all have their flaws and weaknesses that still need to be addressed and there are many ways to make these jobs a lot more fun/compelling to play. DRG playstyle is so boring compared to NIN & MNK and this needs to change imo - it needs to feel more alive, more "active". GL3 needs as it's way too harsh, there's still some issues with DRG Jumps regarding latency. NINs have a few Mudra's that are completely useless and these need to be changed - also, its catch-up/movement ability is so lackluster (Both NIN and MNK need more gap-closers).

But why not discuss how we can actually improve the jobs and take them further beyond what they currently are, rather than mellowing over everything we already know and have discussed.

Maybe I shouldn't of opened my mouth and kept my rather harsh opinions to myself. I dunno. I should get off the internet and go outside once in a while, lmfao.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

Dragoons have the highest survibility by far from all dps now, just to toss in that lil something.

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fists of earth is far better than the tiny bit more of hp dragoons get/the slightly higher physical def

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Originally Posted by hamsteak

fists of earth is far better than the tiny bit more of hp dragoons get/the slightly higher physical def

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I was also taking into concideration that they have more physical defense inlcuding the equal magic resistence plus Blood for Blood is a no brainer for them now since it won't 100% kill you in alot of situations due to the passiv that dragoons got for it which is bullshit in my opinion.
Things like Earthshaker in t13 are laughable for dragoons, it's physical, you can parry it and in situations like those Dragoons survibility is superior, yes FoE is awesome too.
We don't know what 3.0 brings yet and the survibility wasn't my main reasoning why Dragoons don't need to be on top.
From my knowledge their DPS right now is in a very good place.

Come on man. You DRGs are so damn greedy. First you want increase in DPS, THEY GAVE IT TO YOU. Then it's not enough. You want to be Top Dps. Wth? Depending on fights, Drg can compete or win mnk/nin on dps because they start their gears faster than any Melee dps and sustain it better than in the past. While mnk if their gs stacks are gone. That's it for them. Nin, if they screw up mundra. 20sec next try. You know how easy it is for DRG now after they buffed it? As an old drg player i can assure you that it's almost 100% easier. So sit back and let the Sakura fly

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Originally Posted by Blueskyy

Come on man. You DRGs are so damn greedy. First you want increase in DPS, THEY GAVE IT TO YOU. Then it's not enough. You want to be Top Dps. Wth? Depending on fights, Drg can compete or win mnk/nin on dps because they start their gears faster than any Melee dps and sustain it better than in the past. While mnk if their gs stacks are gone. That's it for them. Nin, if they screw up mundra. 20sec next try. You know how easy it is for DRG now after they buffed it? As an old drg player i can assure you that it's almost 100% easier. So sit back and let the Sakura fly

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Read OP. He/She isn't even a Dragoon lol. And none of us Dragoons, really, want any changes.

I think DRGs are fine where they stand now. Logically I'd agree with the less utility = more DPS thing, but we ended up with this and it's fine. I think Dragoons are far safer than NIN and MNK when mistakes happen, especially now that they don't have strict positional requirements on Heavy Thrust and Impulse Drive. If a Monk loses Greased Lighting it will take a long wind-up to get back, or the use of Perfect Balance. Without Greased Lightning their damage is awful. As for Ninjas, it's more about Huton; if that gets messed up you have 20s of knee-capped skill speed, or you waste Kasatsu on a move that does no damage. A DRG can easily start his rotation over from the necessary point, Heavy Thrust again and carry on from there. As someone said above, risk vs reward. Even against a NIN and MNK performing optimally DRGs are never miles behind either. I think the current melee balance is fair.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

I was also taking into concideration that they have more physical defense inlcuding the equal magic resistence plus Blood for Blood is a no brainer for them now since it won't 100% kill you in alot of situations due to the passiv that dragoons got for it which is bullshit in my opinion.
Things like Earthshaker in t13 are laughable for dragoons, it's physical, you can parry it and in situations like those Dragoons survibility is superior, yes FoE is awesome too.
We don't know what 3.0 brings yet and the survibility wasn't my main reasoning why Dragoons don't need to be on top.
From my knowledge their DPS right now is in a very good place.

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oh, i don't care about/nor agree with the OP, i was just making a point that monks are the most defensive melee dps. i use both drg and mnk in fcob and i dont really feel either one needs more damage, all 3 of the melee dps are pretty close at the moment.