What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Even if that's what Square is having the most? o: Because "some hope that CBU3 will look at the backlash Endwalker received and course correct" might not happen if they think they did well.

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Then I'll just keep crowing about it until the sun burns out, the rivers run dry, and my forum access expires.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

Then I'll just keep crowing about it until the sun burns out, the rivers run dry, and my forum access expires.

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Alright xD

And yeah, overall, I disagreed with parts of Endwalker really hard, but I also found stuff that I enjoyed too. I found some stuff to be hella cringe, but other stuff to work just fine.

Well, still. I hope I didn't make anyone uncomfortable tbh. I just figured... "People are saying it sucked and that it's the end of that. And that the incoming content isn't being good either. But that can't be right, they have to like something, otherwise they wouldn't be continuously discussing it". As in, clearly there had to be something else, because only saying "I don't like it" and leaving it at that wouldn't make for an almost-800 page thread. Things would eventually just die out.

Even if this thread is among the "few" (questionable?) who are vocal about what the disagreement with the story is, hopefuly Square does hear at least some of it and can do better in the future.

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

https://i1.wp.com/voyagecomics.com/w...o-you-move.jpg

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This has been the stance I've taken on a lot of things, Endwalker included. Some things are indeed opinion, but others aren't, and I won't pretend that objective fact is mere opinion. It doesn't matter if people hate me for it, I will speak the truth, Striker or Renalt's supposed majority be damned.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

So what about you guys?

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I enjoyed the new visuals, fights, and the storybeats up until the last few cutscenes in Elpis.

In From The Cold was a special treat.

I would have preferred more Zenos or Zenos actually hurting someone while in our body, though.

I also enjoyed seeing all of my friends playthrough it, in spite of getting separated from them post Zodiark due to the queue login troubles / my GF pulling me away long enough that I got auto-logged out.

Right now, I stick around because I raid but also because I have a newfound apathy towards the story now. Like, I care enough to see what's new on patch day, do the seasonal events, and occasionally run a dungeon or two with friends... but my love for XIV is at an all time low. But I've always been the type to just stay subbed because I like to be able to access it at a whim if the mood strikes.

I hope that the writing takes a new direction. That the game's story interests me enough to continue doing my LP of it (which is currently stalled out in 6.1 due to my own lack of interest).

I'm also hoping to get a consolidated subscription reduction for having subscription to FFXI. I've been subbed to FFXI since 2003. With very few breaks in that sub. FFXIV since 2013. Wanna meet whatever caveat they will likely have to be eligible for the discount.

Plus I gotta be subbed so I can be heard here. I mean, there's only a small possibility that anyone at SE with any pull on development ever even so much as glances towards the English section of the forum, let alone opens it to read feedback. But I'll take that chance.

In response to if I did enjoy anything in Endwalker of course I did, the side content thus far as been pretty great in my own opinion. Also I own a house and it is too close to my FC to lose it to someone who won't decorate or turn it into a brothel/night club/casino.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

At any rate I do not understand why I should take those people seriously nor their constant need to jump in here. .

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Because if you are going to talk like you speak for the rest of us...we will remind you that you don't. You might have a few followers like any cult would...the rest think you're just crazy.

The first visit to Thavnair sucked.
Old Sharlayan (in the beginning) was good. Garlemald was great until the pointless body swap. Second visit to Thavnair was fine.
Elpis was when 6.0 dropped off a cliff, never to recover.
And the current arc is just boring.

I'm not going to elaborate because I'd be parroting what has been said multiple times about the bad parts. Also Myths of the Realm is a gigantic disappointment. The twelve should have been left as mythical and mysterious instead of additional 12 simps with one-dimensional personalities. And I'm permanently burned out on eccentric scholars, who are a swarming plague in Etheirys at this point.
Aside from Pandemonium the writing has been abysmal.

Why do I have an active subscription? Only one reason. I have a colleague who subs on and off, and this as one of the games in which I help out.

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Originally Posted by Renalt

Because if you are going to talk like you speak for the rest of us...we will remind you that you don't. You might have a few followers like any cult would...the rest think you're just crazy.

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Hey now I can think he's both correct AND crazy, thank you!

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

And I'm permanently burned out on eccentric scholars, who are a swarming plague in Etheirys at this point.

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Hear hear! I never thought I'd get sick of this archetype, but then the story brought us to Sharlayan.

I LOVE how every other page someone pops up "THIS IS YOUR OPINION NOT FACT REEE!" while it's the "Endwalker-is-the-best" group that spouts out their opinion as fact and use metacritic as "proof". Such nonsense.

It's interesting how many people that disliked EW's story like me, liked Garlemald - i did aswell.

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Originally Posted by FirstGearFirstGear

The "Venat allowed the Rejoinings to happen" doesn't really hold water. We know she actively worked to stop the First from being destroyed. We also know that she was creating Warriors of Light throughout the eons. If you want to criticize her for failing to stop them, that's fine, but this implication that she just sat around eating grapes until Rejoining #7 doesn't work.

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Once again: You're not defined by your intentions, but by your actions and their results.
In order for Demi-Ascian WoL Saviour to become a thing, rejoinings needed to happen.
Venat did not stop the rejoinings.
Its fair to say she might as well let them happen because she didn't actively prevented them from occuring in the first place.
All while styling herself as supreme guardian diety.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

It's interesting how many people that disliked EW's story like me, liked Garlemald - i did aswell.

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It's mostly a really great story. Getting to see a people who have been hurt so badly finally start on the road to recovery. A people so brutalized in the past and so mired in propaganda that the sight of someone different from them sends them reeling in fear and anger. Getting confronted with that stark reality, helping some of the survivors work through their issues until they finally feel safe in trusting us, it's great. Wonderful, humanizing storytelling.

I don't much care for In From The Cold, mind you. Fandaniel kidnapping us so effortlessly was kind of crap. The initial bodyswap shenanigans was a neat idea, but the actual gameplay of that quest dragged on long enough for it to become tedious and boring. And the ending, with the WoL dragging themselves across the entirety of Garlemald to throw a sword at the world's slowest man, was just fucking stupid.

I swear, if I ever cover that moment in fanfiction, I am going to have the WoL leading the survivors we met at the end of that gameplay sequence. Y'know, the ones who died in the random ass explosion that also crippled our host body? The WoL guiding them to Camp Broken Glass and arriving in the nick of time would be so much better. Hell, I'll have the WoL fire their magitek armor's artillery at Zenos—in full knowledge that this might leave their own body horribly crippled or worse—to stop him from hurting anyone.

EDIT: Also, having said all this, I'm reminded of the kneejerk reaction certain folks who shall remain nameless (because I can't remember their names) had to the whole "the Garleans fear us" thing. Especially that young girl who ended up dying because we terrified her and her sister so much that they tried to run to where the 1st Legion was hunkered down. Just... the sheer vitriol of it struck me—the combination of the "what possible fucking reason could these kids have to fear me?!" and "I'm glad they're dead, I just wish it was me who killed them" attitudes.

That approach to other people is so very... familiar, lately. Reminds me of Twitter, lol.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

*Checks metacritic*

GoT season 8: 4.1

Endwalker: 9.1

I have to wonder, do you ever just think to yourselves "You know what? I'm in the minority here. The majority of players really loved this, and I didn't."? Because at least then I could sympathize with people hating Endwalker. I can see how people would hate it. I disliked some parts of it. Comparing it to Season 8 of GoT however, which was almost universally criticized for rushing to finish the story is just being disingenuous.

YOU didn't like it. From really any metric you can take however, most FFXIV players did.

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Not like "most" players liking it is especially hard to achieve. Most players in this game do not look at a story with any kind of critical eye, they do exactly what the company wants from them, buy product, consume product, get excited for next product.

All Endwalker really needed to do for a 9/10 after the ShB hype machine was give them their favourite characters from previous expansions to fangirl/fanboy over, some pretty visuals to look at, grand speeches about saving the world and some kind of feel good "message" that ties everything together neatly while actually ending the Hydaelyn/Zodiark story.

You don't need to necessarily provide an actual good product for people to rate it highly, best example being the 2022 movie Glass Onion.
It sits at a 92% critic and audience score on Rotten Tomatoes despite it's plot having more holes than swiss cheese and every one of it's miriad plot contrivances being explained away by "the villains are just really stupid".

I know this has been posted here, but I feel it's somewhat relevant again. I'd be curious of people's own scores/comments.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...tion-blank.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...0/relation.jpg

Spoiled, because large images.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I know this has been posted here, but I feel it's somewhat relevant again. I'd be curious of people's own scores/comments.

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From what I remember, that image was for a wolqotd thing on Twitter. Basically how your WoL feels about the Scions, rather than how you as a player feel about them. Which doesn't really stop folks from using it as the latter, of course, but I'd always found the idea of my WoL being a 1:1 copy of my own personality to be... unimaginative, I suppose.

Anyways, this one was mine:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FV9uwNgV...jpg&name=large

Personally, I'm indifferent to most of the Scions. Minfilia and Ryne are really the only ones I love as characters, and the only one I really hate is G'raha.

By contrast, Lily generally likes all of them, even with her misgivings. Were I to reassess this chart post-6.0/Ashes, I'd probably dock Y'shtola two stars at worst—Lily had a falling out with her after the Aitiascope.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Not like "most" players liking it is especially hard to achieve. Most players in this game do not look at a story with any kind of critical eye, they do exactly what the company wants from them, buy product, consume product, get excited for next product.

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Yup, this. And it’s frankly pretty obvious when you realize that the majority of players doesn’t even get the lore right. Even the mentors on lore channel of subreddit discord server made mistakes yet act like they’re all-knowing.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Not like "most" players liking it is especially hard to achieve. Most players in this game do not look at a story with any kind of critical eye, they do exactly what the company wants from them, buy product, consume product, get excited for next product.

All Endwalker really needed to do for a 9/10 after the ShB hype machine was give them their favourite characters from previous expansions to fangirl/fanboy over, some pretty visuals to look at, grand speeches about saving the world and some kind of feel good "message" that ties everything together neatly while actually ending the Hydaelyn/Zodiark story.

You don't need to necessarily provide an actual good product for people to rate it highly, best example being the 2022 movie Glass Onion.
It sits at a 92% critic and audience score on Rotten Tomatoes despite it's plot having more holes than swiss cheese and every one of it's miriad plot contrivances being explained away by "the villains are just really stupid".

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Or if we want an in-universe example we need to look no further than Y'shtola.
Darling scholary sassy uwu waifu cat girl, has been around for many years yet saw almost no character development let alone enough to justify her being around for so long and getting this much screentime, had multiple fake deaths, only faced pseudo-consequences but as long as her fanclub gets a few tear-jerking moments that make them want to hug their darling waifu, a magical girl scene, a cute "oh oops book fell on my head uwu haha :3" scene and a sassy reply every once in a while that makes them go "OMG y'shtola's answer... I CAN'T I'M CRYING LMAO XDDDD" they'll be happy.
But looking at it a bit more objectively, she's a bland character that barely changed and doesn't have any special role that other characters couldn't easily fill just fine.

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Originally Posted by FirstGearFirstGear

The "Venat allowed the Rejoinings to happen" doesn't really hold water. We know she actively worked to stop the First from being destroyed. We also know that she was creating Warriors of Light throughout the eons. If you want to criticize her for failing to stop them, that's fine, but this implication that she just sat around eating grapes until Rejoining #7 doesn't work.

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Oh it definitely works. She seems to create WoLs as fodders to prevent complete rejoining. Until the one guy she’s waiting for appears, then protect him at all cost. And the First? Of course she tried to save it, the time travel plan depended on it lol.

If she truly want to prevent rejoining, why bother spared emet? Even one unsundered surviving is a risk for the sundered.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

Or if we want an in-universe example we need to look no further than Y'shtola.
Darling scholary sassy uwu waifu cat girl, has been around for many years yet saw almost no character development let alone enough to justify her being around for so long and getting this much screentime, had multiple fake deaths, only faced pseudo-consequences but as long as her fanclub gets a few tear-jerking moments that make them want to hug their darling waifu, a magical girl scene, a cute "oh oops book fell on my head uwu haha :3" scene and a sassy reply every once in a while that makes them go "OMG y'shtola's answer... I CAN'T I'M CRYING LMAO XDDDD" they'll be happy.
But looking at it a bit more objectively, she's a bland character that barely changed and doesn't have any special role that other characters couldn't easily fill just fine.

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With how you say, it really makes me think Papalymo died because he wasn't a pretty cat girl, damn it....

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Originally Posted by Jettinson

With how you say, it really makes me think Papalymo died because he wasn't a pretty cat girl, damn it....

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You mean he didn't?

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Oh it definitely works. She seems to create WoLs as fodders to prevent complete rejoining. Until the one guy she’s waiting for appears, then protect him at all cost. And the First? Of course she tried to save it, the time travel plan depended on it lol.

If she truly want to prevent rejoining, why bother spared emet? Even one unsundered surviving is a risk for the sundered.

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"Sowwy i let you die but i have to because i got spoilers from the future uwu" - Venat, probably.

That's why i hate this time travel but no change BS. With that in place we could travel to the future, see everyone dead and then go back and kill everyone to preserve that future which cannot be avoided. So who is to blame? Is everything set in stone and meaningless?

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

I really liked Pandaemonium so far too, but I reserve my judgement fom the time being. There's a lot that could potentially go wrong in a single patch.

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Yyyup. One patch was all it took to ruin the Eden story for me because I was genuinely interested in learning about Eden itself and it all went out the window as soon as Mitron appeared. Felt so lazy, "sike! it was ascians all along". Praying the last tier of Pandaemonium won't take a nosedive with its story too.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

Takes a dump on Rian Johnson's Glass Onion

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I love you. :hearteyes:

On another more generalized note: Critics and audience scores these days are heavily manipulated anyway.

Like when something that had official critics paid off to give positive reviews rates super poorly among the audience, they cry that it's being review bombed by trolls. This actually just equates to there being so many negative reviews that they couldn't prune them and curve up its review score.

Video game scores are usually a bit better, but the bigger the studio the more out the ass they pay for good reviews and awards. Just look at God of War 6(Ragnarok). It got oodles and boodles of awards, mainly from paying to be given them because it was a solid, big budget game. They just couldn't out pay 9 months of good faith from Elden Ring to cinch that GOTY award.

It's similar to pop politicians writing books. Popular politicians write books. Most of them are garbage, but they go onto the New York Times Bestseller's list almost instantly because their political party buys a million copies and ships them to a warehouse to collect dust. The optics received from that is that said politician is a talented writer that people love to read, but in reality there's far less people reading them, and they usually didn't even write the book themselves.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I know this has been posted here, but I feel it's somewhat relevant again. I'd be curious of people's own scores/comments.

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Here's mine. I'm not usually into RP but this was a fun activity.

(Looking back, I probably would give Graha 0 stars if I had thought to do so lol)

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...917.1654817530

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

On another more generalized note: Critics and audience scores these days are heavily manipulated anyway.

Like when something that had official critics paid off to give positive reviews rates super poorly among the audience, they cry that it's being review bombed by trolls. This actually just equates to there being so many negative reviews that they couldn't prune them and curve up its review score.

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This is why I have zero faith in sites like Metacritic or Rotten Tomatoes. Most of the reviews are bought and paid for and in the few cases where genuine negative reviews outweigh the paid ones, it's labeled as 'review bombing'. Review sites these days are a joke.

For me it's something like:

Thancred - 4.5 stars
Estinien - 5 stars
Alisaie - 5 stars
Alphinaud - 3 stars
G'raha Tia - 2 stars
Krile - 1 star
Tataru - 2 stars
Minfilia - 1 star
Ryne - 3 stars
Y'shtola - 3 stars
Urianger - 4 stars

I like'em mostly, but they could all stand to become actual characters again rather than scriptwriter mouthpieces/WoL praise machines.

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Originally Posted by BRVV

I LOVE how every other page someone pops up "THIS IS YOUR OPINION NOT FACT REEE!" while it's the "Endwalker-is-the-best" group that spouts out their opinion as fact and use metacritic as "proof". Such nonsense.

It's interesting how many people that disliked EW's story like me, liked Garlemald - i did aswell.

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They don't use metacritic as fact, just one of an overwhelming deluge of pieces of evidence pointing to it being highly successful. The reality that even in the "lulls", the active playerbase is still hundreds of thousands of players (aka significantly larger than similar "lulls" in other expansions). Heck, it's frequently pointing out the bitter cabal's own claims that there are apparently dozens upon dozens of subreddits and other sites absolutely filled with "white knights" who love the game, and how this forum with a select small group of unique posters is the only place on the entire internet where you can actually be negative about this game...and yet somehow, those few magically outnumber all of those other sites. I like to point out that you can go to just one single YT video on EW and likely find hundreds of unique posters talking about how much they've enjoyed it (aka far more than the group on here naysaying it).

I'm more curious about why you continue to care so much about people disliking something if it is liked by the "overwhelming majority".

We're exceedingly unlikely to be noticed by the devs/writers, much less actually influence their choices for better or worse, nor do most of us operate under the illusion that isn't the case.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

The reality that even in the "lulls", the active playerbase is still hundreds of thousands of players (aka significantly larger than similar "lulls" in other expansions).

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Where exactly are you getting these numbers?

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm more curious about why you continue to care so much about people disliking something if it is liked by the "overwhelming majority".

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Because goodness forbid things change for the better around here. The objective reality is that this has been the most polarizing expansion where something has gone wrong in every aspect of the game - starting with the story.

I went from Shadowbringers being invested in the MSQ, the 8man, and the trial series to...Just the 8man in Endwalker because we lost the trial series, the base MSQ was a disaster and the patch MSQ is a terrible FFIV ripoff, and the Alliance Raid is little more than a vehicle for a handful of individuals to shove in both their prescribed comfort characters and self inserts that nobody asked for.

You cannot ask me to endure a 7.0 that repeats these mistakes.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Because goodness forbid things change for the better around here.

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because what you and others find it a problem, there's also others that dont believe it so. So who's objectionably right here?

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm more curious about why you continue to care so much about people disliking something if it is liked by the "overwhelming majority".

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That guy's more insecure than my WiFi password, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

They don't use metacritic as fact

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In the world's audience hall, the simple blades of grass sit on the same carpet with the sunbeams, and the stars beyond midnight.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

They don't use metacritic as fact (...)

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Yes they do because not ever sentence begins with "in my opinion". Isn't that the rules some have on posts in this thread? Oh it's just if you DIDN'T like EW.
Secondly i don't know what it is with you claiming that we think we are in the majority. From my perspective we are all fully aware that we are the minority.

I didn't know everything I think and feel personally has to be prefaced with IMO. Besides they're not stating it "as a matter of fact" either, yet they aren't given the benefit of the doubt in that regard.

Just saying it's ironic to have a signature questioning why the forums are so toxic yet being so flaming mad you read into what people are saying and assume the worst.

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

I didn't know everything I think and feel personally has to be prefaced with IMO. Besides they're not stating it "as a matter of fact" either, yet they aren't given the benefit of the doubt in that regard.

Just saying it's ironic to have a signature questioning why the forums are so toxic yet being so flaming mad you read into what people are saying and assume the worst.

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I was mirroring what others did... like wow... /whoosh much? Do you two really not get it?

Really nice how you did what you accuse me of... I MIRRORED THEM. You all need to read your own posts

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

That guy's more insecure than my WiFi password, that's for sure.

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Let me guess, is its 12345678?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Let me guess, is its 12345678?

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Clearly it's 8008135, get with the program.

Needs to be changed to 133742069. Gotta make it three things!

I guess my WiFi password is more secure than I thought—it's Swordfish.

Also, as much fun as shitposting is, I get the feeling the thread's died down for now. How many months away is 6.4? Three?

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Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch

How many months away is 6.4? Three?

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Yeah, it's about three more left until 6.4. God, it feels like it's already been three months since 6.3 seeing how all of the 6.3 content was practically DOA or just weekly chores (and the MSQ was very short in length and did almost nothing to build upon the story, making it very forgettable). I genuinely can't understand the people who think four months per patch is acceptable.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Remember when we also used to get beast tribes on official patch day and not the .5 patch?

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My (not so charitable) theory is that SE is perfectly aware that there isn't enough content to keep people subbed, so they intentionally drop it in the x.x5 patch to force you to resub if you want to do it when it's current.