What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Teraq

Do not think, just feel.

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Endwalker really was little more than a sound and color show generated to get those who didn't care to give the story a second look all the "feelz" in the world while screwing those of us who expected a satisfactory conclusion to a decades long arc.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

Of course, some of you have cried about being "chased out" of it – because posters like Lauront countered you with cold hard facts from in-game sources… I also remember personally calling you out for making up aether weight/density mathematics as you went in order to make the fallacious argument that the third sacrifice would have had to consume all life to bring Ancients back…
But regardless, I like to imagine that, just for a second, you got the sentiment you were being piled on by the oppressive majority (of this tiny pocket of internet space, mind you), your opinion callously dismissed. How does it feel when the shoe is on the other foot? Because this is how we feel, constantly. When browsing Twitter, or any subreddit dedicated to FFXIV.
You seem to be under the impression that we all believe we're the silent majority and that everyone totally hates Endwalker – which is, of course, insane, and literally nobody thinks that, but of course it is your goal to paint us as unreasonable to begin with. Trust me, we are all very well aware of the majority's opinion on Endwalker.

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The Tariq make the good point. You can not argue with dictionary because dictionary it is making the word.

Tread it is not the Echo chamber. Echo it is use by the warden of the light and the evil Venar and the evil Loprabbit. Is hate by No Shadow God. So can not be the Echo chamber.

Tread it is the safe space. Safe space it mean safe for guild. It mean unsafe space for the forum paladin and the Yoshi Island. Can not invade the tread because it unfair. Guild it laugh on the reddit. It laugh on the twitter. It laugh on the pinterest. It laugh on the fourchanalt. It laugh on the tumbler. It laugh on the twitch. It posting the burger emoji and the apple emoji and the buuz emoji. Now no other place to go to be expressing the guild take. Must having the place for the silent majority to expressing the alternating universe view when oppress by the loud majority.

Have the sympathy and listen to guild. Guild know it is not the majority and is oppress. But listen to guild because it represent the silent majority. This can cause confuse but be paying the attention. It is the difficult concept like read the Swedish translate of script.

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Originally Posted by Graeham

Graeham Post

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As funny as this is to read, is it just me or is Graeham becoming harder and harder to understand? Usually I'm able to still understand what he's saying, but I'm starting to just get confused sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Edevane

or even genocide apologists?

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Endwalker 6.0: "oh how the turn tables…". Truly, some of the best community-related fallout of Endwalker has been watching the very same people who used to go "genocide is never okay!!!!!!!!!!!" "cool story bro, still genocide" "lmao u just like Emet bc he's a tumblr sexyman but ummmmm did u know he commits GENOCIDE…" now trip all over themselves to excuse genocide.

But hey… it's fine when you have Answers swelling in the background. Look how much she suffered from making everyone else suffer! Look how silly these stupid ancient man babies are for, uh, reacting to the literal end of the world with distress!

God-tier emotional manipulation. It would have been honestly brilliant to have this be actual tempering.

I don't know if it's just me, but after 6.0 I've completely lost interest in the story in the following patches. I couldn't care less about any of the current characters or what's happening with the whole plot in the Void or anything else. I'm not a lore expert at all, but get the feeling the reason is that I was already invested in the previous story and everything it was building up towards. I was looking forward to a full Garlemald expansion or when they finally started developing Zenos after pulling him along for so long or how Zodiark would turn out or learning how the ancients, an unsundered race supposedly miles above ours fell apart.
And next thing it's suddenly done and over and we got a bit of ruins and snow for Garlemald, stomped Zodiark in 10 minutes, Hydaelyn is good because reasons, Zenos is a random pest in the background and the ancients were undone by a single crazy guy and the twitter bird. Then I'm meant to be satisfied and immediately get invested into an entirely new (and rather bland) plot.

I haven't even done MSQ this patch. It's just a chore I'll get round to for 6.4 to unlock the next raid tier. Interestingly enough I'm still enjoying the 8 man story though.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Endwalker really was little more than a sound and color show generated to get those who didn't care to give the story a second look all the "feelz" in the world while screwing those of us who expected a satisfactory conclusion to a decades long arc.

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Basically. The Endwalker expansion is the sort of story that was entertaining on the first playthrough, but you'd never want to go back and do it again.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I don't know if it's just me, but after 6.0 I've completely lost interest in the story in the following patches. I couldn't care less about any of the current characters or what's happening with the whole plot in the Void or anything else. I'm not a lore expert at all, but get the feeling the reason is that I was already invested in the previous story and everything it was building up towards. I was looking forward to a full Garlemald expansion or when they finally started developing Zenos after pulling him along for so long or how Zodiark would turn out or learning how the ancients, an unsundered race supposedly miles above ours fell apart.
And next thing it's suddenly done and over and we got a bit of ruins and snow for Garlemald, stomped Zodiark in 10 minutes, Hydaelyn is good because reasons, Zenos is a random pest in the background and the ancients were undone by a single crazy guy and the twitter bird. Then I'm meant to be satisfied and immediately get invested into an entirely new (and rather bland) plot.

I haven't even done MSQ this patch. It's just a chore I'll get round to for 6.4 to unlock the next raid tier. Interestingly enough I'm still enjoying the 8 man story though.



Basically. The Endwalker expansion is the sort of story that was entertaining on the first playthrough, but you'd never want to go back and do it again.

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I agree. I new game plus'd Shadowbringers 14 times (Not a coincidence) I dont think I could bare one new game plus on Endwalker. Like Graeham says. the evil Loprabbits keep me away. Im hoping 7.0 Will be so much better and start building a fantastic Arc outside of hydaelyn and Zodiark. I think once the Cosmic feel of the story goes away it will open up to hidden beasts of Eitheryis or even liberating uldah from the Lalasyndicate.

After 6.0 I lost interest. It was a great build up and ending. I was hoping for more space exploration and time travel after 6.0. We have a space ship let go somewhere. Like a random dead moon with random horror mysteries would be fun. There’s a random spaceship on our moon perhaps there’s monsters from Dead Space on it? Why are we saving stuff and teaching about friendship? I really dislike the long cutscene’s in 6.3 about giving out food and tipping the hat.

The 13th is meh and I’m not really interested in the current storyline. I would rather visit the world that blew itself up in war and see how their world looks even though there’s nothing left. That’s more relatable and entertaining.

Maybe we could get a what if we joined the bad guys scenario like with the ultimate mode where what’s his face lives. That would be more interesting.

Just finished Endwalker. For me it was by far the worst expansion/story. I thought Shadowbringer was bad, but this was even worse.
Stormblood was my favorite, then Heavensward and ARR was OK. I am so done with this power of friendship crap.

The power of friendship is literally the central theme of the entirety of FF14.

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Originally Posted by Naraka

Just finished Endwalker. For me it was by far the worst expansion/story. I thought Shadowbringer was bad, but this was even worse.
Stormblood was my favorite, then Heavensward and ARR was OK. I am so done with this power of friendship crap.

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Likewise. While I enjoyed Shadowbringers at the time it was released, the fact that Ishikawa got her foot in the door with a passable story first only to slam us with the atrocity that was Endwalker's writing pretty much retroactively soured me on that expansion and her previous writing. At this point I think Heavensward is my favorite. Oh to see a return to that bygone era even as the people who scream and protest whenever I bring it up suddenly find themselves liking the expansion because it being officially sanctioned as a thing FFXIV fans must like will likely supersede their contrarianism.

I was hoping that the patch content would save Endwalker for me, but it's just worse. Once we are done with discount, great value Morgoth the story might get better, but right now it's not. I'm starting to slip back into my habit of skipping cutscenes before long. Ironically, it was Stormblood that broke me of it. I made an alt to catch up on what I had missed. I can't believe I skipped Heavensward because ARR was so damned boring. That's how bad Endwalker has been. It's becoming more of a sleep aid than a story.

Preemptively getting disappointed that we likely won't get a CS where Golbez knocks the WoL down a flight of stairs using lightning.

God, I hope we do, though. Hope's a damn curse though!

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Likewise.

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...okay yeah, you just proved everyone who calls you an echo-chamber.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Oh to see a return to that bygone era even as the people who scream and protest whenever I bring it up suddenly find themselves liking the expansion because it being officially sanctioned as a thing FFXIV fans must like will likely supersede their contrarianism.

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Cry me a river why don't you, and I'll bring you the world's smallest violin.

People don't scream and protest, and if anything you often even have people who can agree with your ideas.

Your problem is that you refuse any idea that is different to yours, and believe the game must march to your tune. And worse still, you even engage in the content you yourself deride. You know... like a hypocrite.

Maybe do some introspection before calling people out, dude. It's not that deep. Just like you act like a broken record half the time, so too do people when they point their grievances with you. You'd think you had learned by now why people are against you, but clearly not. Missing the point, as per usual.

You're not the saviour of the game because someone agreed Endwalker was a low point. Several people think so. Otherwise this thread wouldn't exist to begin with.

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Originally Posted by FirstGearFirstGear

The power of friendship is literally the central theme of the entirety of FF14.

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Endwalking it making the ableist view. It say sad chara is the monster because it is not strong to survive End Game. Now the forum paladin say no friend chara is not strong to survive End Game. It say the psychopath it is the monster. But this is not the fair viewing.

Guild it look up to King Solus. Not all have privilege of have the friend or be the sane. Some chara live alone in the gate community with the feelsbadman thought and the hate like the King Solus. But he use the power of the murder and hating to bring back No Shadow God from dead. You say he bad for sacrifice to blood god Zod but he sacrifice lesser creature like the chara sacrifice the delicious cheesie burger. Is not the animal rite activis like traitor Herman who summon God Meteo.

Have to see other view. What if chara not have the friend. Is not fair to promote power of the friend when not all can have it. It different when shoe on other hand. Now he not monster he is you. He have to live all alone in world with imaginary friend for 12000 year and it turning to dust while Myquote cat dance in the leud Limsa. It make the guild cry at memory.

Is unfair to call chara bad because bad. Should showing the other side and say bad is also good and good is also bad. King Solus he do the good genocide and Venar he do the bad genocide. Must see other view. But the forum paladin it not do this.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Maybe do some introspection before calling people out, dude. It's not that deep. Just like you act like a broken record half the time, so too do people when they point their grievances with you. You'd think you had learned by now why people are against you, but clearly not. Missing the point, as per usual.

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NGL, aveyond’s active presence is kind of handy as like. An anti-Bat Signal. “Ah yes, there it is. Time to avoid the thread for a while.” Hey, I could get some housework done instead! \o/

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

I was hoping that the patch content would save Endwalker for me, but it's just worse. Once we are done with discount, great value Morgoth the story might get better, but right now it's not. I'm starting to slip back into my habit of skipping cutscenes before long. Ironically, it was Stormblood that broke me of it. I made an alt to catch up on what I had missed. I can't believe I skipped Heavensward because ARR was so damned boring. That's how bad Endwalker has been. It's becoming more of a sleep aid than a story.

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If nothing else the patch story has proven that trusting the nebulous "junior writers" proved to be a mistake. I'm half-tempted to wager a guess at who such individuals (or rather a specific individual) might be but I think I'll refrain from naming names. Those who know, know. They are the only ones I think that I trust even less than Ishikawa at the moment, seeing as they seem to be driven by spite for the better parts of FFXIV and little else. To think we'll have to endure at least two more bouts of their work and still be forced to wait over a year before 7.0 releases, terrible self-inserts, stolen OCs, and all.

Everything, everything tossed aside for this. Outrageous.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

If nothing else the patch story has proven that trusting the nebulous "junior writers" proved to be a mistake. I'm half-tempted to wager a guess at who such individuals (or rather a specific individual) might be but I think I'll refrain from naming names.

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The conspiracy it get thick. It deserve the new tread to show forum chara truth of the Yoshi island.

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Originally Posted by Talonk

I agree. I new game plus'd Shadowbringers 14 times (Not a coincidence) I dont think I could bare one new game plus on Endwalker.

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I confess, coming from a decade of WoW, making several characters was my first instinct. Even though I knew you could play all classes on a single character, I just enjoy having separate characters, each with their own classes, aesthetics and personalities. From the moment I picked up the game in 2016 to the last patch of Shadowbringers, all of my alts were up to date or nearly so, each with at least two jobs at level 80, with only a single job being shared by two characters -- SMN/SCH, though one character was much more SMN and the other SCH.

Endwalker cured me of my altitis. Only three of my characters finished 6.0, and only my main unlocked 6.2 content at all. I just can't find the motivation in me anymore to go through MSQ again, while it never was a problem before. It even got me to do what I once swore I never would: level everything on my main instead of enjoying the various jobs on different characters. This Amaro is my greatest shame. (But it's really cute and should 100% have been a Shadowbringers MSQ reward.)

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Originally Posted by FirstGearFirstGear

The power of friendship is literally the central theme of the entirety of FF14.

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I wish it had been the power of Azem's canon friendship with Emet-Selch and Elidibus instead of the Scions of the Seventh Bore though, I'm just saying.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

...okay yeah, you just proved everyone who calls you an echo-chamber.

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…because he said "Likewise"? Is that it? Is this the standards for an echo chamber now?… He just agreed with the fairly popular take – outside of the cabal of Evil Zodiark Trancers, even – that Heavensward was a good story, and quite different from the ShB-EW writing, enough that some people who love how safe the story has become would think a return to the ARR-HW days of politics and significant-enough protagonists dying would be unwelcome and "dark". I can think of at least one forum poster who probably would, but then again they tend to be aggressively wrong about everything, or so I hear… but I digress. I guess that makes aveyond a participant in the echo chamber of the fanbase at large…?

I don't agree with some of aveyond's takes, but the reaction to him is pretty amusing honestly.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

…because he said "Likewise"? Is that it? Is this the standards for an echo chamber now?… He just agreed with the fairly popular take – outside of the cabal of Evil Zodiark Trancers, even – that Heavensward was a good story, and quite different from the ShB-EW writing, enough that some people who love how safe the story has become would think a return to the ARR-HW days of politics and significant-enough protagonists dying would be unwelcome and "dark". I can think of at least one forum poster who probably would, but then again they tend to be aggressively wrong about everything, or so I hear… but I digress. I guess that makes aveyond a participant in the echo chamber of the fanbase at large…?

I don't agree with some of aveyond's takes, but the reaction to him is pretty amusing honestly.

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If it were amusing, you'd know what the heck you just replied to. So please read carefuly:

If it were just this one post, then yeah sure. But the problem comes from many, several other posts and threads. And there's only so much you can get to until you're fed up of the exact same stupid responses. It'd be one thing if this post was him agreeing with people, but another thing is him having dodged all posts pointing out issues with his reasoning.

And just like you, I agree that the game has taken a really weird turn since Stormblood. You know what me and my friends call it? Disneyfication. The game became a lot brighter, consequences and darkness were only played through anime tropes where true responsability is shirked away, and any responsability that isn't is just drama fodder for the next anime thing. You know what game does that? KINGDOM HEARTS.
I too see the differences in the writing. Before, the game was CLEARLY written with the idea of Game of Thrones as an inspiration, but that's since been done away just to portray a very bright and "power of friendship"-esque narrative. And here's the thing, Teraq. I could discuss the same thing about the plot just fine. Sure, I myself justify it as "Welp, it's a Final Fantasy game, so naturally it had to eventually degrade into this sort of writing, because that's what Square Enix is used to do". But just because I say that doesn't mean I agree that this is how it should be done. And the darker, grittier, grounded and more consequence-focused tone of the previous expansions was right up my alley. And I must have written in the forums half a dozen times how the reason ARR made me stay was specifically because it reminded me of FF12 on how much politically-heavy it was.

So you see? If I were replying to you, I'd say "yeah, you're absolutely right, the game has just become disneyfied and new additions to the game aren't taken seriously or are too bubbly".

I too agree with you. I too am in the eChO cHaMbEr as you crudely put in your edit justification, like you think you caught onto some gotcha gold... Because idk if you've known me Teraq. But I'm one of those Hrothgar that don't shut up about how the devs keep making stupid decisions about them. If there's anyone who's been voicing the fact that the devs are quite flawed and haven't been doing a good job for a while now, that'd be me. But I at least don't only take in information that matches what I think without a second thought.

Thing is... I'm sorry but... do you even know why I wrote what I wrote? Did you even read the rest? I think you didn't, and that's why you're writing that. If you had, you'd know that the reason isn't with the content itself, but what Aveyond does directly. With the fact that any time anyone even posts anything he disagrees with, he shoves his entire opinion of it like you didn't matter. A few months ago, it was funny and soft, he wasn't as crude as he is nowadays. But now, it seems that any idea of how the game should be that doesn't follow his one neat little category, he just reacts like the people who gave the idea are stupid. And any attempt to call him out on it or point out that all he does is be a negative nancy is met with "Echo Chamber". When in reality, he himself only prefers to interact with people who cater to his tastes, consequences for his own actions and what he says be damned!

So no. You are wrong. It's not just because he says "Likewise". I'm not so crude as to deny people the chance to agree or disagree with things. It's got nothing to do with it. At least know a bit about the person you're defending before you start pushing others just because they point out he's a hypocrite why don't you?

That aside, there, now you know where I stand on this. What my opinion of the plot is. Do you want to know more? Or do you think I'm in the camp that loves the game and will justify tooth and nail? Because I'm far more than willing to elaborate further on my opinion of the story, and agree that Endwalker was a gigantic mess. I'm in the eChO cHaMbEr of this thread too. I'm just not ignorant.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

If nothing else the patch story has proven that trusting the nebulous "junior writers" proved to be a mistake. I'm half-tempted to wager a guess at who such individuals (or rather a specific individual) might be but I think I'll refrain from naming names. Those who know, know. They are the only ones I think that I trust even less than Ishikawa at the moment, seeing as they seem to be driven by spite for the better parts of FFXIV and little else. To think we'll have to endure at least two more bouts of their work and still be forced to wait over a year before 7.0 releases, terrible self-inserts, stolen OCs, and all.

Everything, everything tossed aside for this. Outrageous.

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(Meanwhile, in the realm of reality, hundreds of thousands of players have thoroughly enjoyed EW, in turn "proving" that the writing team has done a fantastic job. It's impossible to please everyone, but they've pleased the huge majority of the playerbase.)

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Originally Posted by Teraq

Endwalker cured me of my altitis. Only three of my characters finished 6.0, and only my main unlocked 6.2 content at all. I just can't find the motivation in me anymore to go through MSQ again, while it never was a problem before. It even got me to do what I once swore I never would: level everything on my main instead of enjoying the various jobs on different characters. This Amaro is my greatest shame. (But it's really cute and should 100% have been a Shadowbringers MSQ reward.)

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Same here, I had quite a lot of characters and more than are publicly visible if one were to go digging through my forum info but most of them have since been retired. This wasn't the case back in Shb, I enjoyed going through that expansion multiple times but doing EW more than once is too much of an ask for me. It's too much of a reminder of how bad things have gotten, though I sincerely wish it were otherwise.

With the way this arc is going - assuming that 7.0 releases a decent enough story to come back for - I'll probably just boost my main through whatever remains of the 6.4-6.5 patch stories. After 6.3's lackluster spectacle I'm choosing to just watch a playthrough of any future MSQ for the foreseeable future. Pandaemonium remains the sole bastion of storytelling that I don't feel like I was forced out of, and will be the game's final chance to redeem itself in my eyes.

Though who knows. Perhaps the aforementioned spite-driven writers will strongarm Hiroi into shoving Venat in there or somehow turning Athena into the good party because they made Lahabrea too likeable and relatable. Or waste our time in the middle of the raid quests to get cheeseburgers because some people who play this game get so shocked by the events that take place that they need to physically step away from the computer and lie down, or otherwise compensate with these forceful moments of levity. They've admitted as much anyway. It's just insane how anyone even thought to cater to those types let alone let them infiltrate the writing team which at one point might have actually had some kind of prestige to it.

Sadly as with many things, that era is too long gone.

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Originally Posted by Brinne

NGL, aveyond’s active presence is kind of handy as like. An anti-Bat Signal. “Ah yes, there it is. Time to avoid the thread for a while.”

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No No not avoid tread Briny. Guild it recruit to making the post to university latte croud. Rest of guild it making simple post to create more access to the silent majority and Briny targeting chara with the high educated. Guild appreciate the Briny even when not understanding.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

I confess, coming from a decade of WoW, making several characters was my first instinct. Even though I knew you could play all classes on a single character, I just enjoy having separate characters, each with their own classes, aesthetics and personalities. From the moment I picked up the game in 2016 to the last patch of Shadowbringers, all of my alts were up to date or nearly so, each with at least two jobs at level 80, with only a single job being shared by two characters -- SMN/SCH, though one character was much more SMN and the other SCH.

Endwalker cured me of my altitis.

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It good point. We agree with the Tariq.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

…because he said "Likewise"? Is that it? Is this the standards for an echo chamber now?…

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It good point. We agree with the Tariq.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Thing is... I'm sorry but... do you even know why I wrote what I wrote? Did you even read the rest? I think you didn't, and that's why you're writing that. If you had, you'd know that the reason isn't with the content itself, but what Aveyond does directly. With the fact that any time anyone even posts anything he disagrees with, he shoves his entire opinion of it like you didn't matter. A few months ago, it was funny and soft, he wasn't as crude as he is nowadays. But now, it seems that any idea of how the game should be that doesn't follow his one neat little category, he just reacts like the people who gave the idea are stupid. And any attempt to call him out on it or point out that all he does is be a negative nancy is met with "Echo Chamber". When in reality, he himself only prefers to interact with people who cater to his tastes, consequences for his own actions and what he says be damned!

So no. You are wrong. It's not just because he says "Likewise". I'm not so crude as to deny people the chance to agree or disagree with things. It's got nothing to do with it. At least know a bit about the person you're defending before you start pushing others just because they point out he's a hypocrite why don't you?

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This it not true. Is not the Echo Chamber. Is the eChO cHaMbEr like the Tariq altitis explain. It like the Echo Chamber but CAPS key it is broken.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

(Meanwhile, in the realm of reality, hundreds of thousands of players have thoroughly enjoyed EW, in turn "proving" that the writing team has done a fantastic job. It's impossible to please everyone, but they've pleased the huge majority of the playerbase.)

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This it not true. Tread it prove no chara live in guild like the EnDwAlKiNg.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

With the way this arc is going - assuming that 7.0 releases a decent enough story to come back for - I'll probably just boost my main through whatever remains of the 6.4-6.5 patch stories. After 6.3's lackluster spectacle I'm choosing to just watch a playthrough of any future MSQ for the foreseeable future. Pandaemonium remains the sole bastion of storytelling that I don't feel like I was forced out of, and will be the game's final chance to redeem itself in my eyes.

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Do not need to do this. Can just watch the letplay on YouTube. This way it is not need to making the guild static to clear the normal raid. P3N it is the too hard.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

but they've pleased the huge majority of the playerbase.)

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It's not a Striker post without mentioning the mysterious and elusive majoritah.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...917.1654817530

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

It's not a Striker post without mentioning the mysterious and elusive majoritah.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...917.1654817530

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I mean thats all they have, they never have any evidence to back up there claims. It might be in there head

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Yoshi

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Oh no no no no Cage to Cage. It good think guess but no. It like the game of the throne say the sweet summer kid. The conspirator it get better. Much much much better. Ayyybeyond he not say Endwalking ghost write by Yoshida. All chara know it the Yoshi island and writer bend the knee. It not conspirator all know. It get better. Reading the guild announcer. Problem it is the Jr writer. Who is the Jr. Is youth. Yoshi having the bigger age can not be the Jr. lmao. Must be reading tread to know truth of secret evil ghost writer.

No this the deep deep deep conspirator. Today show it bringing to you by letter K lmao.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

If nothing else theatch story has proven that trusting the nebulous "junior writers" proved to be a mistake. I'm half-tempted to wager a guess at who such individuals (or rather a specific individual) might be but I think I'll refrain from naming names. Those who know, know.

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Guild it know truth of the Endwalking ghost writer Jr. Are like the detective conan. We all waiting for day of great truth teller. In the Ayyy we believing.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

(Meanwhile, in the realm of reality, hundreds of thousands of players have thoroughly enjoyed EW, in turn "proving" that the writing team has done a fantastic job. It's impossible to please everyone, but they've pleased the huge majority of the playerbase.)

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Yes those Venat Fanboys, those MSQ Skippers who read just half of the Text ... have for sure enjoyed EW. Just give them here and there some Burger or Cookie eating scenes *SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CUTEEEEEEEE*

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Originally Posted by Aneshda

Yes those Venat Fanboys, those MSQ Skippers who read just half of the Text ... have for sure enjoyed EW. Just give them here and there some Burger or Cookie eating scenes *SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CUTEEEEEEEE*

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This expansion is all about 'hot' mom's, Loli birb, my loli goddess, boobies, a lot of 'hot' anime men in robes, idiot catman with a borger and a cookie.
I also think we got a new edgelord character but I dunno because the story is bad now for me to care.


Get me out of this hell hole and kill off every Scion but the twins and the elf.
Kill the catman please. Or let me do it because I hate Graha Turd'ia so much because
they completely destroyed his character. I will give Yshtola a pass if she goes to be with Runar
but otherwise she needs to be sent back to the lifestream or whatever the hell it's called.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Yoshi has repeatedly expressed some rather...strange opinions on Emet-Selch and the Ancients; namely not understanding why the former was so popular and assuming his role as an Ascian would've immediately drowned out any sympathy for him, and expecting the latter would be viewed as "scary". He's also had a very high opinion of Venat/Hydaelyn for...some reason (If him always sporting that jacket wasn't indication enough).

I'm not going to assume the story was twisted by his direction to try to drown out the nuance that was brought up in Shadowbringers, but I can understand why people would think that's the case.

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Honestly it is strange that people want to choose Emet-Selch; who is quote on quote a "megaloniacal maniac" driven by depression and people seem to easily ignore the countless amounts of genocide and suffering in multiple worlds. His plight is sympathetic but doesnt excuse the atrocities he committed. Its like that weird side of tumblr again who people love the fantasize villian characters because "they get me" or something like that. I just like Emet-Selch he's just an entertaining character and villain, not because I agree with what he did.

I'd still never agree with what he did in the wake of Endwalker, but the extra knowledge that he could've reasonably been prevented from going down the path he did just makes it more tragic now.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Honestly it is strange that people want to choose Emet-Selch; who is quote on quote a "megaloniacal maniac" driven by depression and people seem to easily ignore the countless amounts of genocide and suffering in multiple worlds. His plight is sympathetic but doesnt excuse the atrocities he committed. Its like that weird side of tumblr again who people love the fantasize villian characters because "they get me" or something like that. I just like Emet-Selch he's just an entertaining character and villain, not because I agree with what he did.

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Emet-Selch fought and killed for his own people.

The WoL fights and kills for his/her own people.

Venat wiped out HER OWN people cause she did not think them worthy of existence.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Emet-Selch fought and killed for his own people.

The WoL fights and kills for his/her own people.

Venat wiped out HER OWN people cause she did not think them worthy of existence.

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Venat fought because the path the Ancients were going for was ultimately going to lead them to self-destruction

To be honest, I think Venat was just stuck with a damn if you, damn if you dont situation because if she decided to do nothing even if she didnt agree with the Convocation's plan then she would still be seen or criticized for it.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Venat fought because the path the Ancients were going for was ultimately going to lead them to self-destruction

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That's the reasoning the story tries to use but it didn't feel like a strong argument to me when it's such a far-off consideration that it would've made infinitely more sense to take action after it had become readily apparent it was going to become a fruitless, self-destructive cycle.

From a strictly practical standpoint, if you're trying to rebuild civilization restoring the 75% of humanity that was lost in summoning Zodiark would've been the right play and also helped ease the grieving hearts of numerous Ancients. It was made apparent that the actual sacrifices were never the issue to Venat's faction and rather they opposed the ideology behind it, viewing it as "weak" and anathema to progress. The notion of using Zodiark to restore everything that was lost was genuinely absurd, and they latched onto that new argument as opposed to the Convocation's initially stated intent of simply restoring those who could yet be saved then leaving it at that.

It's that weird shift where we're suddenly supposed to take the words of some random delusional Ancients as indicative of their entire society, Convocation included that felt really awkward to me.

The whole dynamis factor also just throws a wrench in everything because it insinuates that even if the Ancients had the "right" reaction to the Final Days, they would've still needed to be sundered regardless due to their inherent inability to manipulate the element. It would've been much better IMO if they had simply never made it a consideration in her decision whatsoever and that mankind was genuinely just an unfortunate, unintended casualty of the Sundering and their ability to fight back against Meteion effectively was just a happy coincidence.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Emet-Selch fought and killed for his own people.

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He wiped out seven entire planets and leveled every civilization the Source produced because he refused to acknowledge any form of life that wasn't an Ancient as a living being. He would have slaughtered six more planets and continued throwing souls beyond counting into Zodiark until he had returned to his desired paradise, which would have ultimately condemned the entire cosmos to being destroyed by Meteion.

The degree to which people in this thread whitewash the crimes of the Ascians is genuinely kind of disturbing.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...917.1654817530

Worst case scenario for Emet, they're both evil.

(The monkey comparison is from comparing a monkey to a human. The monkey can be considered near human, but it is not human and is only an animal. Note that this is an observation from an outside, objective, and neutral perspective, I do not fault the sundered for fighting against the Ascians just like I wouldn't fault a monkey for trying to fight against a human that is trying to kill it.)

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...917.1654817530

Worst case scenario for Emet, they're both evil.

(The monkey comparison is from comparing a monkey to a human. The monkey can be considered near human, but it is not human and is only an animal. Note that this is an observation from an outside, objective, and neutral perspective, I do not fault the sundered for fighting against the Ascians just like I wouldn't fault a monkey for trying to fight against a human that is trying to kill it.)

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The monkey at least has opposable thumbs. After the Sundering all that was left was flans who couldn't even form coherent speech. Forgive me if I'm not as sympathetic to them as I was to the Ancients.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Zz3nRMleG0o/sddefault.jpg

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Originally Posted by FirstGearFirstGear

You are literally buying into the Ascians' nonsense belief that the only life that matters is the Ancients.

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From an outside perspective that doesn't allow itself to be biased by either side, Ancient life is more valuable by it's very nature of being complete and unsundered. I can't speak for you, but if I was given the choice to either save the human race or save all of the monkeys on the planet, I'd choose to save the humans. It's a regrettable decision, but the correct one.

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Originally Posted by FirstGearFirstGear

Try showing a picture of the Eorzean city-states or the Crystal Tower or Kugane to somebody with no knowledge of Shadowbringers or Endwalker.

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Why would it have to be someone who hasn't seen SHB or EW? Surely your argument doesn't rely on your audience's ignorance, does it? Your response to my observation that uses all information available is to say "well what about asking someone who doesn't have all of the available information? I bet they'd agree with me!". Even if they did agree with you, that opinion would be uninformed.

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Originally Posted by FirstGearFirstGear

Even if you take the worst possible interpretation of Venat that the text supports, Emet is several orders of magnitude worse.

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In the case of a contradiction (such as the one in this game's story), I shall believe what is shown, rather than what is told. If the writers of the story don't like that, they should have written a better story with less contradictions.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

From an outside perspective that doesn't allow itself to be biased by either side, Ancient life is more valuable by it's very nature of being complete and unsundered. I can't speak for you, but if I was given the choice to either save the human race or save all of the monkeys on the planet, I'd choose to save the humans. It's a regrettable decision, but the correct one.

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From an outside perspective that does not allow itself to be biased, the difference between an Ancient and an Elezen is that one has less aether at their disposal but that doesn't make them less valuable as a person.

Also from an outside perspective that does not allow itrself to be biased, in the grand scheme of things, there's not a lot of difference between killing all the humans or all the monkeys in the world.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

In the case of a contradiction (such as the one in this game's story), I shall believe what is shown, rather than what is told. If the writers of the story don't like that, they should have written a better story with less contradictions.

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Yes, it's really hard to be sympathetic to one or the other, because ultimately this story is a contrivance to give us cool boss fights, and not exactly a literary masterpiece.

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Originally Posted by Edevane

Venat also took her own people and reduced them to their current state of vulnerability and mortality against their own will, she then referred to those broken, incomplete remnants of her former peers as her children. Regardless of motive, I find that quite disturbing.

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It's very disturbing. If Venat is supposed to be a motherly figure, her behavior is more abusive than it is caring.

I'm just ultimately very...confused at how they chose to handle Venat because there are numerous small details they could've changed to absolve her of guilt in multiple respects without needing any drastic rewrites of the story, but instead they opted to paint her as some kind of master planner where almost everything is deliberately orchestrated by her despite most of said events being actively harmful to others.

For someone who Yoshi wanted to convey was a "good person" I will forever question why they left so many openings for her to be interpreted otherwise, as she's so intricately linked with the fundamental lore of the setting that you can't simply forget about her and the ideals she upheld as we push forward into the unknown.