Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

I'm allowed to hate what I want just as you are allowed to like what you like, I have no problem. With you liking slop it doesn't affect me in any way. But don't try to deflect with its because of the VA

Look, I'm probably one of the world's biggest XIV stans and I will champion it to the end of time. But even I can tell the story in this ex is below par.
If you were a true fan, you would recognise how great the previous expansions were and would understand how badly dawntrail misses the mark.

edit: to add further, we aren't being critical of the expansion because of a grudge against the developers, we're critical because we love the game and know that it can be, and has been better.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Of course, because you don't like it its slop, you have heard the phrase about a holes right and how everyone has one?! yeah well im going there with your opinion and the opinions of the few people on this forum.

Looking at steam it has 1398 Reviews 64% are positive, the ones that are negative are met with "this review is funny" or a clown emote, there is most definitely more than 1398 players in this game and not everyone plays on steam. This forum, is quite literally a minority of toxic negativity, someone mentions something positive about the game your "kind" come out of the woodwork like a bad rash.

Honestly I don't get it, it can't be good for your mental health to wallow in all this negativity you're only pulling yourselves into the hole of hatred, whilst simultaneously trying to pull others in with you, just do everyone including yourselves a favour and find something else to do, you'll feel better I promise!

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A glance at your post history and you are what you are calling out, you come here looking for posts you can bitch at and talk negatively about, you are literally all the worse things you claim others are. the minority of your recent posts are positive or non antagonistic towards another. Pot meet kettle.

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Originally Posted by Radvo

Having finished the MSQ now, I return with newfound hate for the character.
They really insisted on her ruining every single good moment in this expansion.

Ending spoilers

Having her show up in the final trial screeching in her insufferable voice that she understands Sphene while axe-ing her in the face... why... Just to steal the last chance we had at an "epic" moment in the story for ourselves.

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This was the moment I decided to skip every cutscene from now on. I legit though, "Wow, Wuk is gone and were finally getting this epic fight with other WoL's!" Only to be ruined with her showing up. I was absolutely livid and over it at that point. I straight up skipped every cutscene after that. I couldn't bare it anymore.

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Originally Posted by Neon231

This was the moment I decided to skip every cutscene from now on. I legit though, "Wow, Wuk is gone and were finally getting this epic fight with other WoL's!" Only to be ruined with her showing up. I was absolutely livid and over it at that point. I straight up skipped every cutscene after that. I couldn't bare it anymore.

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Well there were only a couple left after that point but I get that feel. I couldn't believe what I was seeing when that happened.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

Some data from discord -snip-[/URL]

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That is... OK. It's just actual fact that Wuk Lamat took over the expansion at the detriment of every other character. She really didn't let anyone speak. Erenville and Krile got shafted so hard in what was supposed to be their story too.
Also lol at Cahcuia who was there for only 4 levels of the story having more lines than Krile, Alphinaud, and Alisaie who were there for all 10.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Holy moly, I never knew FFXIV had so many professional writers and script writers playing their game, wow you guys are amazing maybe SE can hire you guys to carry on the story for them woweee.

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Have you ever read "The Critic as Artist" by Oscar Wilde? It's an interesting piece to consider. Might be a little too verbose for some of y'all though.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Looking at steam it has 1398 Reviews 64% are positive, the ones that are negative are met with "this review is funny" or a clown emote, there is most definitely more than 1398 players in this game and not everyone plays on steam. This forum, is quite literally a minority of toxic negativity, someone mentions something positive about the game your "kind" come out of the woodwork like a bad rash.

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Are you telling me that white knights are using the only method they have of trying to delegitimize and suppress negative feedback on Dawntrail? That's crazy.

Truly Dawntrail has revealed those who like the game, but don't accept bottom of the barrel drivel, and those who would consume anything handed to them by SE.

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Originally Posted by Seirikka

Look, I'm probably one of the world's biggest XIV stans and I will champion it to the end of time. But even I can tell the story in this ex is below par.
If you were a true fan, you would recognise how great the previous expansions were and would understand how badly dawntrail misses the mark.

edit: to add further, we aren't being critical of the expansion because of a grudge against the developers, we're critical because we love the game and know that it can be, and has been better.

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IMO DT is a step down from SHB/EW, but still a good deal better than Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

IMO DT is a step down from SHB/EW, but still a good deal better than Stormblood.

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Stormblood had Hien and Gotetsu and Sadu... And we got to face awesome opponents like Susano, and Lakshmi. Stormblood is absolutely cooler than Dawntrail.

I prefer Stormblood to Dawntrail. The story had a lot more going on and the characters were a lot more memorable to me. Ala Mhigo and Doma had lore presence as far back as ARR, but the only time I remember the 'new world' being mentioned prior to DT was occasionally in the blue mage questline.

Stormblood was okay. I was there at launch and I can tell you, there was NOT this amount of backlash or negativity, not even close. You saw more memes about Raubahn Extreme than complaints about the story at the time, that isn't to say everyone was happy but it was not even close to this level.

Funnily enough, my favorite part of Stormblood was the Azim Steppe. Stop me if you heard this one before:

You arrive in a foreign land inhabited by various tribes. You travel around and learn about their cultures and then you partake in a competition to determine who will be the new ruler of this land, on behalf of a local girl.

Strange how things play out sometimes...

Stormblood was a significantly better story from a writing perspective, and there were definitely characters that were... frowned upon to say the least. But the problem we're seeing is a case where a not-good story then has a character that reads like a self insert Mary Sue with a script that induces actual cringe read by a VA that clearly wasn't ready to be in front stage to such a massive audience for this many lines. It's a bad story with an even worse casting problem.

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Originally Posted by Karious

Stormblood had Hien and Gotetsu and Sadu... And we got to face awesome opponents like Susano, and Lakshmi. Stormblood is absolutely cooler than Dawntrail.

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There were some great scenes with Gotetsu and we actually felt like we matter with Susano and Lakshmi. It honestly feels like my character hasn't been needed for all of the stuff upto and including 95

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Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

IMO DT is a step down from SHB/EW, but still a good deal better than Stormblood.

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Honestly? Not at all. Stormblood had huge issues (The entire Ala Mhigan section was ass for the most part), but Doma was a shock hit with a ton of really engaging characters. The Azim Steppe was so genuiniely inspired, Hien and Gosestsu had a very good and classic synergy, and in general a lot of neat lore was developed. Yeah, Lyse dominated the story a bit, but she still stepped out now and then.

Meanwhile the story doen't feel like it's about the New World, it feels like it's about Wuk, and everything else is secondary. Keep ini mind, I do NOT like Stormblood. But it was leagues better.

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Originally Posted by Tethan

You arrive in a foreign land inhabited by various tribes. You travel around and learn about their cultures and then you partake in a competition to determine who will be the new ruler of this land, on behalf of a local girl.

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I'd also say the Azim tribes manage to have more depth than pretty much all of the Turel tribes while only being one zone and about 2 or so levels worth of quests

Dawntrail suffers from the same issues as Stormblood story wise. (2 stories in one expansion.)

But that's honestly where it ends, I just don't understand why they had the exact same issues. Shadowbringers handled the second half story shift so much better than SB and DT that I thought they learnt from their mistake.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Dawntrail suffers from the same issues as Stormblood story wise. (2 stories in one expansion.)

But that's honestly where it ends, I just don't understand why they had the exact same issues. Shadowbringers handled the second half story shift so much better than SB and DT that I thought they learnt from their mistake.

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I think they did, Endwalker even did great, too. I mean at the 83 trial I'm pretty sure everyone went "Wait, already!?" but in a good way. It meant bigger things were happening.

The issue we see now is a new writer. Someone who hasn't learned their lessons. A new writfer following ShB and EW was always going to be a difficult battle and it was sure to get the brunt of some criticism... But the mistakes in this expansion are so obvious and so terribly that, while I see a new writer making these mistakes, this script had to go through editors and undergo revisions. There isn't "A writer" there's teams of writers. Multiple sets of eyes. It makes me wonder, how bad was it before revisions that this looks this bad now?

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Originally Posted by Ryaduera

I think they did, Endwalker even did great, too. I mean at the 83 trial I'm pretty sure everyone went "Wait, already!?" but in a good way. It meant bigger things were happening.

The issue we see now is a new writer. Someone who hasn't learned their lessons. A new writfer following ShB and EW was always going to be a difficult battle and it was sure to get the brunt of some criticism... But the mistakes in this expansion are so obvious and so terribly that, while I see a new writer making these mistakes, this script had to go through editors and undergo revisions. There isn't "A writer" there's teams of writers. Multiple sets of eyes. It makes me wonder, how bad was it before revisions that this looks this bad now?

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Given the change of writer it feels really strange they were allowed to let there OC just crush every scene and drive out every character

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Given the change of writer it feels really strange they were allowed to let there OC just crush every scene and drive out every character

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It's such a blatant Mary Sue character, if it's so obvious now, how bad did the script look before it went through revisions? Normally I wait until I complete a story to give a full critique and I'm not through the entire expansion yet, but this is just so bad. This whole thing sounds like something I'd find on Wattpad.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._jp_wuk_lamat/

(SPOILER - from a later scene)

For anyone who is not changing the voices over to JP - here is a comparison video someone on reddit posted this morning. It's a good listen. I'd swap only Wuk if I could lol.

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Originally Posted by Ryaduera

It's such a blatant Mary Sue character, if it's so obvious now, how bad did the script look before it went through revisions? Normally I wait until I complete a story to give a full critique and I'm not through the entire expansion yet, but this is just so bad. This whole thing sounds like something I'd find on Wattpad.

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Lyse makes her grand return lol.

Oh my goodness, this is too much. I agree with the criticism people have been voicing here so far, and now my snapping point has been reached. I started out liking her well enough in the very beginning, thought okay, this is the comedic chill start, we're doing worldbuilding and shenanigans, and soon everything will break apart in creative and horrible ways and there'll be plot, and Wuk Lamat will show more depth. Not only is that not happening, and I like her less and less and less with each zone, but she's also everywere. She does everything.
Like others on the forum, I enjoyed every reprieve so much, and then she's being pushed back in my face and taking over everything like a cat-shaped black hole.

5th zone:

I just made it to the advertised cyberpunk city, the one I'd been wanting to see and that partially made me hold out instead of just putting the game down and not opening it again. I'd been looking forward to this. And I'm stuck with her again. My actual friends, who I actually want to explore the city with, are literally all the other characters present that are not her. Give me my Scions back.

People were really right, this is an awful case of writers' pet; it's insufferable. Just go away!

Spoilers but

One thing that would've made the story significantly better is if we could have just ditched wuk after the level 95 dungeon and when the rite stuff is done with and replace her with Bakuul to give him a proper redemption arc.

Imagine if the Exhart was forced to go with you and be the center of attention not letting other characters shine and appears on the last fight with Hades out of no were during the fight. Then proceeds to kill Hades.

That is Wul Lamat on this expansion. It would have been better if she was removed from after she got her kingdom. Se even tried to be the focus of attention during Krile story.

I actually said "NO!!!!" when she insisted on walking around the second city with us. Seriously? I can't even do that on my own? Or choose who I hang out with? Every time I thought I'd had enough, there she was again. It almost ruins Tuliyollal for me because I know she's probably at the wol's door every three seconds.

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Originally Posted by PaleYonder

Oh my goodness, this is too much. I agree with the criticism people have been voicing here so far, and now my snapping point has been reached. I started out liking her well enough in the very beginning, thought okay, this is the comedic chill start, we're doing worldbuilding and shenanigans, and soon everything will break apart in creative and horrible ways and there'll be plot, and Wuk Lamat will show more depth. Not only is that not happening, and I like her less and less and less with each zone, but she's also everywere. She does everything.
Like others on the forum, I enjoyed every reprieve so much, and then she's being pushed back in my face and taking over everything like a cat-shaped black hole.

5th zone:

I just made it to the advertised cyberpunk city, the one I'd been wanting to see and that partially made me hold out instead of just putting the game down and not opening it again. I'd been looking forward to this. And I'm stuck with her again. My actual friends, who I actually want to explore the city with, are literally all the other characters present that are not her. Give me my Scions back.

People were really right, this is an awful case of writers' pet; it's insufferable. Just go away!

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She will not. She will cling to your side until the bitter end and push your character out of the way for every cut scene.

She is all that matters to the story, if any other character speaks it's only in furtherance of her own goals.

Making a cool new expansion you want everyone to play
https://i.imgur.com/bCIqgwm.jpg

Spoilers regarding the Dawnservant story. What I think about Wuk Lamat so far:

- Says annoying things with her annoying voice in every other quest
- A monotone voice that sounds strained when she's supposed to express strong emotions
- Needs babysitting. It was cringy for someone so incompetent to act like a main character in the presence of the world-saving WoL. A little humility would have gone a long way.
- Can't fight and gets kidnapped (Minfilia energy), somehow later learns to play WAR properly with no additional training
- On top of being less smart and less strong, needs constant emotional reassurance from sidekicks
- Pretends to be best friends / almost family when we met like a month ago
- Her one redeeming quality seems to be a desire for cOmMuNiTy and cUlTuRaL aCcEpTaNcE that everyone else on the continent is seemingly too racist to embody
- Why didn't Koana become the leader? He is level headed, a capable fighter, good at decision making and apparently liked enough to be accepted as a Dawnservant in the end. Him starting out stoic and gaining understanding about different peoples throughout the competition would have been better character development than Wuk Lamat learning to wipe her butt. I would have preferred to accompany him throughout the first story arc.
- I get that the point of the first arc was to watch her grow into a leader but in order for that to be enjoyable I would have needed to like the character first. But I didn't know her and she was not likeable. She did not make me want to do things for her, even though I'm used to doing things for random NPCs throughout the game. And she had not earned the place to talk about accomplishing things together with the power of friendship, because she was not a scion or a long standing side character.
- I don't hate the character but I do think she was poorly written and poorly voice acted. The outcome for this newly introduced Hrothgal side character could have been different so it feels like wasted potential.

At 97 so I can't talk about the ending yet but I have a feeling my opinion about her won't change. The rest of the story and characters seem interesting but sadly they get less screen time.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

- Can't fight and gets kidnapped (Minfilia energy), somehow later learns to play WAR properly with no additional training

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Well to be fair, the tank community has been calling WAR braindead and overpowered for years, so kinda fits, she rolls warrior, rolls face, wins fight :D

The fourth zone has been my favorite so far, if only because I'm getting to experience it without being joined at the hip with WL. I know this brief respite won't last, but it's been a nice little break hanging out with Erenville...

pray return to the wa...wuk lamat .

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Originally Posted by Argasun

I actually said "NO!!!!" when she insisted on walking around the second city with us. Seriously? I can't even do that on my own? Or choose who I hang out with? Every time I thought I'd had enough, there she was again. It almost ruins Tuliyollal for me because I know she's probably at the wol's door every three seconds.

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Wuk Lamat really is a cat. They also follow their owner to the toilet.

The sad thing is. I can actually see some character development and wanted to like her.
The story itself is quite solid to good and has massive potential but gets drown by Wuk Lamat.
I was almost crying when alisaie and graha ere allowed to run away exploring in the cyberpunk city because I knew I would be stuck with her again.

I‘m sorry to say this but putting a new character this much in the focus of a story with an established team is such a beginner writer mistake.
The scions gushing over her (how much she grew, how awesome she is) in between the missions were you can talk to them and almost all our dialogue choices afirming her awesomeness really soured her for me.

I have read many many books in my life and this writing here is really far down in my opinion.

Given the rigid schedule of square in the development I shudder to think of the other storylines (raids, 7.1 story, field mission, relics)

If this is the best they can do without Ishikawa then this game is losing the one thing it was praised for.

Unlike other stuff like jobs, gameplay and so on there are actually quit many negative voices this time.

I actually unsubed today (still have around 60 days of playtime) and if there is no acknowledgement of the devs or the other story stay this bad then this will be my last expansion since Heavensward.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

Well to be fair, the tank community has been calling WAR braindead and overpowered for years, so kinda fits, she rolls warrior, rolls face, wins fight :D

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- Wuk Lamat
- Undefeatable, loved by all, wins fights through sheer willpower and ‘family’
- Becomes ruler of an entire country
- Literal star of the show
- is a Warrior

Are these things coincidence? I think not!

SE is secretly trying to make us worship Warriors as gods so they have don’t have to rebalance them. Nothing will ever change my mind on this definitely very real conclusion I have made.

(Seriously though, it is a little sus lol)

The metacritic reviews are sketchy. I left a negative review and it got deleted. Short sweet review with no spoilers or language. Deleted within 5 minutes. Is this normal for Metacritic?

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Originally Posted by Larom

The metacritic reviews are sketchy. I left a negative review and it got deleted. Short sweet review with no spoilers or language. Deleted within 5 minutes. Is this normal for Metacritic?

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Yes, metacritic hasn't been trustworthy for years.

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Originally Posted by Fluxating

Yes, metacritic hasn't been trustworthy for years.

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Thank you for the info. I couldn't find a positive review than didn't sound like a robot or had spelling that was at or exceeded elementary school. Makes sense that it'd be considered untrustworthy.

While I didn't like Wuk, I wouldn't attribute DT's suckage solely to her.
The story is far too repetitive and mundane. The pacing is horrendous. Every time something interesting is happening we get pulled out and set to do some tedious stuff instead.

How do I get Wuk Lamat to stop crawling up my Wols a**hole? I can't go 2 seconds without this woman breathing down my neck.

I say this with the utmost respect, as much I enjoy the genki trope (and therefore immensely enjoyed whenever our original Yda had a bit of screentime) Wuk is by far the worst realization of that trope. Pretentious, self-righteous, hot-headed and immature for being the ruler of Tural. The comedy relief loses its effect after a while and it really doesn't help that this godawful character gets shoved down our throats. I cannot talk to Alphinaud for a minute without her monopolizing my Wols space. Erenville gets to say one sentence before she takes over all focus. Krille is literally forgotten for 80% of the expansion because we have to babysit Wuk Lamat. There is 0 agency in the plot itself, nothing we do matters in the grand scheme of things, you're forced from point a to point b to learn about Turals citizens which wouldn't be nearly as much of a slog if the game gave you some breathing room to explore plot points with other characters, god forbid, but no our Wols only role is to be Wuk Lamats personal hype man.

I almost cried tears of joy after the rite of succession was over, thinking the story takes a turn for the good now but no, the brief respite you get for 1 questchain gets thrown out of the window for another half assed character they introduce later down the line.
I've enjoyed every expansion so far, some more than others but I still go back to do NG+, Dawntrail is the first time since ARR where I've skipped dialogue, it wasn't engaging, nothing had meaning, the characters we come to know and love are void of any personality and if the only trait the token MC of the expansion has is "We want peace and happiness! And I WILL force my way upon you!" then you desperately need more time to flesh out your writing because this was not it.

I think one of the things that some didn't like is you the WoL are not the main character in this expansion your MC role has been taken over by Wuk Lamat. When previously the WoL was always the main character and it was their story. You as the WoL are a side kick or companion to Wuk Lamat. The amount of screen time Wuk Lamat gets is a lot so you better love this character. If WuK Lamat was Tidus she would say "This is my story!"

But this is suppose to be billed as the vacation expansion so maybe it is okay to take a back seat to other characters.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

But this is suppose to be billed as the vacation expansion so maybe it is okay to take a back seat to other characters.

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No, this is never okay. We are the playable character in an RPG story. We should be the protagonist. We should never be less than a side character as we are now.

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Originally Posted by Beatriche

While I didn't like Wuk, I wouldn't attribute DT's suckage solely to her.
The story is far too repetitive and mundane. The pacing is horrendous. Every time something interesting is happening we get pulled out and set to do some tedious stuff instead.

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This was a hallmark of XVI as well. There is a clear and obvious problem with this dev team. SE trusting them with new games is very questionable.

I understand the idea of highs and lows but their idea of lows is to bore the player out of their mind with repetitive world and character building.