I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

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Originally Posted by Shougun

"You think you do, but you don't"

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How dare you. Ouch.:eek:

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Originally Posted by Niroken

Game developers are notoriously stubborn. The best case would be that they get to 6.55 and say that the style of play isn't for them personally. They just have to look at the numbers and see that Healers outnumber tanks in terms of queue times just to come to the conclusion that healers enjoy that play style because... they keep playing healer. When healers get to tank level queues to where it's actually a problem, then adjustments would be made.

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What server are you on that healers remotely outnumber tanks (AIN doesn’t count since it biases tanks)

It’s been years since I’ve had shorter queues on tanks than healers

I know Adventurer in Need doesn't count, but it ... is probably still used as a metric to see if we still have more healers ... Before you get the pitchforks out, I have actually tested it out too. Since I was seeing way too long periods of tank being needed for hours and started to suspect something wrong. It was as you said half the time, Supersnow, with a 5 - 8 ish minute wait as a tank who is supposedly "needed". Switch to healer right after that and I got in instantly with no AIN bonus >.>

So... those mounts that were needed as tank queuing achievements ... It looks like the healer versions are needed too now >.>

I’ve never understood why they don’t do healer versions of the tank mounts/titles for duties, especially since on average healer is now the rarer role

I don’t really care that AIN biases tanks (though I don’t understand why it has to bias any one particular class) but it’s odd to me they specifically included the tank achievements to drive engagement to tanks (which to be fair tanks were rarer in SB surprise surprise) but won’t do it to healers now that healers need the engagement

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Originally Posted by Tigore

I know Adventurer in Need doesn't count, but it ... is probably still used as a metric to see if we still have more healers ... Before you get the pitchforks out, I have actually tested it out too. Since I was seeing way too long periods of tank being needed for hours and started to suspect something wrong. It was as you said half the time, Supersnow, with a 5 - 8 ish minute wait as a tank who is supposedly "needed". Switch to healer right after that and I got in instantly with no AIN bonus >.>

So... those mounts that were needed as tank queuing achievements ... It looks like the healer versions are needed too now >.>

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I think it has to do with the fact that it's easier to queue as a healer for the rewards than it is a tank. Tanking is more challenging and more intimidating than healing because you're the one who leads the party. How many players will flex into healer and how many are dedicated healer players is a different metric. Meanwhile there are far less players who will flex tank, but far more players who are dedicated tank players.

The way I’ve always had AIN explained to me is that AIN checks roles in a particular order and has set parameters

Say in the last 10 minutes 300 people have queued for the levelling roulette
-250 DPS
-35 tanks
-15 healers
AIN will decide based on there being 300 people who have queued that if there is less than 50 of a role in the queue they will be AIN, the system then checks tanks and sees there is less than 50 tanks, they get marked AIN without even checking healers despite there being less healers so their queues end up popping faster

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The way I’ve always had AIN explained to me is that AIN checks roles in a particular order and has set parameters

Say in the last 10 minutes 300 people have queued for the levelling roulette
-250 DPS
-35 tanks
-15 healers
AIN will decide based on there being 300 people who have queued that if there is less than 50 of a role in the queue they will be AIN, the system then checks tanks and sees there is less than 50 tanks, they get marked AIN without even checking healers despite there being less healers so their queues end up popping faster

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Imagine if there was a tracker that showed how many of each job queues on a server in a given timeframe.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

How dare you. Ouch.:eek:

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Haha, I think you were saying it in jest but just to make sure Im not looking more turdy than normal, for people's context- that was a quote by a WoW dev when the playerbase was asking for classic servers (prior to them adding them of course).

First video I found when looking for it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XuOYmqSF6OQ lol

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

Yes, n o worries it was ! and thanks

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:D perfect

I thought as much but I was like 5% chance to interpret that horribly wrong lol and just wanted to clarify in case for people who didn't know

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Haha, I think you were saying it in jest but just to make sure Im not looking more turdy than normal, for people's context- that was a quote by a WoW dev when the playerbase was asking for classic servers (prior to them adding them of course).

First video I found when looking for it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XuOYmqSF6OQ lol

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Yes, n o worries it was ! and thanks

Seeing that quote, it reminded me of the Luigi Car from the Pixar Cars movie. At least for Luigi's perspective, he explains his point for why compared to the Warcraft video clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fEWAc85ed8

As for Supersnow's explanation for what the algorithm looks like for AIN, it makes a lot of sense. It accounts for why Healers don't get it when they clearly should have it. Did Warcraft eventually allow for multiple AIN's for their dungeons queues too in later expansions? It could be something to add in with all 3 potentially getting it with a dead queue at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

What server are you on that healers remotely outnumber tanks (AIN doesn’t count since it biases tanks)

It’s been years since I’ve had shorter queues on tanks than healers

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That makes no logical sense though, if the back-end numbers confirm what you are seeing, since any developer would want to shorten queue times for their largest population (DPS). They've been continually adding changes to tanks to make them more appealing to the wider public, why wouldn't they do that for healers instead of doubling down if they are the biggest issue for queue times?

Even more so since they plan to add TWO DPS at the same time. You would have thought they learned from Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

That makes no logical sense though, if the back-end numbers confirm what you are seeing, since any developer would want to shorten queue times for their largest population (DPS). They've been continually adding changes to tanks to make them more appealing to the wider public, why wouldn't they do that for healers instead of doubling down if they are the biggest issue for queue times?

Even more so since they plan to add TWO DPS at the same time. You would have thought they learned from Stormblood.

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They did actually learn. It's the reason they're massively simplifying the tanks and healers, it's so it gains more wide appeal to people who thought tanking and healing was too stressful before. The problem with this approach is that it ended up replacing players as the veterans get bored and leave the role rather than increasing the player count in the role.

Honestly, they wouldn't have 'enjoyment' within their list of priorities when they decide to appeal to the wider playerbase to give those watered down roles a try to make DPS queues faster. Or they would have a very twisted or skewed view of how 'enjoyment' is from the healer roles specifically. Which IMHO not surprising at all if that's really the case.

Otherwise they wouldn't have replaced that one healer tester in their team for getting 'too good' a.k.a. just starting to heal Extremes (paraphrased).

It doesn't matter, so long the DF queues are filling and popping. Green DPSes are designed to make Duty Finder queues pops faster.

Im curious if they could even experiment with healer attack combos. Every class has their basic 123 besides bard. Could throw in a OGCD on a small cooldown as well. Its time to fresh things up Yoshi P

Even if healers get more dps spells, won't change the fact that the real problem isn't our current tools, but the encounters itself.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

Even if healers get more dps spells, won't change the fact that the real problem isn't our current tools, but the encounters itself.

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In all honesty, it's a bit of both.

Our wildly overpowered and bloated healing kits coupled with a surprisingly dry mp economy if you actually force healers to GCD heal makes getting a good healing requirement baseline an absolute knife edge with Medica 2 spammers falling off one side and spreadsheet enjoyers the other.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

In all honesty, it's a bit of both.

Our wildly overpowered and bloated healing kits coupled with a surprisingly dry mp economy if you actually force healers to GCD heal makes getting a good healing requirement baseline an absolute knife edge with Medica 2 spammers falling off one side and spreadsheet enjoyers the other.

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MP management is one of the most terribly designed systems in this game. It’s shockingly bad.

MP management is on rails—everything that restores MP is attached to a cooldown, meaning there’s a fixed amount of MP available during a fight. Most of your spells have negligible MP costs that resolve themselves, with the only real spell limited by MP being Raise. But if you somehow require a considerable amount of GCD healing, you cannot sustain that and there’s nothing you can do about it. Ethers exist, but I doubt most players even know that at this point, but even then the MP they offer is very limited as well, also gated by a cool down. The only thing you can do to modify MP regeneration is build piety into your gear, something you can’t do once battle starts, and offers literally 0 value if the MP gained from it isn’t required.

I don’t know how a designer can think about that for more than 2 minutes and not see what an atrocious system that is.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

MP management is one of the most terribly designed systems in this game. It’s shockingly bad.

MP management is on rails—everything that restores MP is attached to a cooldown, meaning there’s a fixed amount of MP available during a fight. Most of your spells have negligible MP costs that resolve themselves, with the only real spell limited by MP being Raise. But if you somehow require a considerable amount of GCD healing, you cannot sustain that and there’s nothing you can do about it. Ethers exist, but I doubt most players even know that at this point, but even then the MP they offer is very limited as well, also gated by a cool down. The only thing you can do to modify MP regeneration is build piety into your gear, something you can’t do once battle starts, and offers literally 0 value if the MP gained from it isn’t required.

I don’t know how a designer can think about that for more than 2 minutes and not see what an atrocious system that is.

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The game actually once had a fantastic MP management system in HW SMN. But I think it was entirely unintentional on the part of the devs.

You had Ruin III, which had a hefty MP cost outside of Dreadwyrm Trance, but it was higher potency than Ruin and you had the option to burn extra MP for more damage. Then you go into a cooldown period with Ruin casts when your MP is low. It was a fantastic balancing act, but it was very likely unintentional design, just like Tornado Kick MNK in SB.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

Even if healers get more dps spells, won't change the fact that the real problem isn't our current tools, but the encounters itself.

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No I think the lack of depth on the class is the main issue... The main part for healer is learning when people will and can take damage and be ready to heal on those parts, otherwise it's just spamming your one attack.

One thing I suggest some pages back was giving options to spend the Job bar resources offensively, rather than being forced to wait for damage or overhealing with them...

The problem I'm seeing with healers is they bolted this newer OGCD healing system that doesn't really care about MP onto what is left of a system entirely based around MP, so there's two ways to do healing and both are valid except in terms of dps output. WHM and Scholar aren't even playing the same game at low levels as they are at high levels.

The rotting, seething corpse of pre-ARR white mage picked away by vultures, with shiny bolted on cybernetic parts stuck to it with lily scribbles all over and a few air fresheners so no one notices the smell. :o

Also, remember people: They could have fixed FOUR jobs this coming expansion, but instead they fixed two and gave us Viper and Pictomancer. Imagine what possibilities could have existed in the wonderful alternate reality of fixing stuffs.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

The problem I'm seeing with healers is they bolted this newer OGCD healing system that doesn't really care about MP onto what is left of a system entirely based around MP, so there's two ways to do healing and both are valid except in terms of dps output. WHM and Scholar aren't even playing the same game at low levels as they are at high levels.

The rotting, seething corpse of pre-ARR white mage picked away by vultures, with shiny bolted on cybernetic parts stuck to it with lily scribbles all over and a few air fresheners so no one notices the smell. :o

Also, remember people: They could have fixed FOUR jobs this coming expansion, but instead they fixed two and gave us Viper and Pictomancer. Imagine what possibilities could have existed in the wonderful alternate reality of fixing stuffs.

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You're being optimistic, aren't you? Well, that's nice to see. This is what, the 4th rework for AST? Time will tell.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

You're being optimistic, aren't you? Well, that's nice to see. This is what, the 4th rework for AST? Time will tell.

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Yoshi P and team can save us. :(

Honestly, WHM is fine around Shadowbringers, it's when we get to endwalker that it becomes a clown car of sorts. The main problem stems from the "mit matters" mindset and health regeneration during combat. The entire reason that white mage got Liturgy of the bell and Aqua Veil is because Liturgy is meant to heal up the huge amount of damage that is dealt when a mitigation fails in normal content, or when someone succeeds on a mitigation in hard content. Aqua veil is there specifically for end game content to act as mit #2 on extremely damaging attacks for tanks.

This is great except that our kit as a whm is built around pure healing and health regeneration. The design of the end game doesn't really work with health regeneration because a lot of the situations are binary in function at the extreme: People either live, or they just flat out die from failing a mechanic. Even in the easier expert roulette dungeons I watched a rdm just get instant KOed with I think 1 or 2 vuln stacks. In Shadowbringers things work beautifully because people would get vuln stacks, but become harder to keep up and require more skills to get the same result: Without vuln I can use instant cast regens or just lily power to keep someone up. If someone starts getting vuln stacks I got to start doing more spam and it hurts the damage output as basic regeneration can't keep up with the damage they are taking.

And then the other problem that healers have is the leveling experience. The reason that we have cure and cure II is because of legacy content requiring them to keep people up, and for a good portion of the early leveling experience white mage doesn't even have a regen spell nor do they have any AOE heals. Hauke Manor you're spending your entire time with a tank multi-pulling pack mobs going between cure II and aero spam while making sure you're MP isn't draining into oblivion. For shield healers they are basically not even using shields much at that level over just spamming cures like the whm.

The shield healers have the problem that they start out with strong heals and then get nerfed as they level up and are forced to use more and more shields to keep people up. This sounds like a "well duh, its a shield healer" situation, but this is a rather unnatural evolution for something doing the exact same thing as a whm. And as DRK clearly shows, unless tank design takes into account that one set of healers is built to heal and the other is just there to supplement their own recovery skills, it results in a biased game situation where one type of tank and healer is just over all superior.

Also going to state this flat out that "Mit Matters" is nothing new. They had it since shadowbringers and even before that in end game content. I think the only thing they did this expansion was try to expand that into the normal leveling content, which partially succeeded but it diminished the value of skills that people literally are using for the majority of their leveling experience. It's like 1-80 is a different universe from 81-90.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with Aquaveil, but it’s also very redundant with Benison. Mitigation and barriers are different, and each has their own advantage and disadvantage, but the objective of both veil and Benison is the same: soak a portion of the damage intended for the tank. So why do we have two?

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

There’s nothing inherently wrong with Aquaveil, but it’s also very redundant with Benison. Mitigation and barriers are different, and each has their own advantage and disadvantage, but the objective of both veil and Benison is the same: soak a portion of the damage intended for the tank. So why do we have two?

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A lot of the issues with the skill bloat could be solved without changing much. They mostly have to tell the players what abilities are legacy ones that they don't expect them to be using at the later levels and suggest the ability to use in its place. The community will always find out what is the most efficient but informing people "hey, I know you have cure but beyond this point it is highly encouraged to use X instead" would be a life saver for setting up hot bars.

Like the healer troubles are way different from Dark Knights issue where they are just missing something they need in their kit but have an ability bloat issue.

The only two jobs in this game I feel like have any button bloat issues are PLD and AST, both of which are really a non-issue IMO. Particularly with PLD, you rarely press most of their buttons anyway. I felt like HW had a lot more bloat issues since there were a lot more dots and OGCDs that did damage, with cross class skills like Mercy Stroke and more.

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Originally Posted by Mithron

The only two jobs in this game I feel like have any button bloat issues are PLD and AST, both of which are really a non-issue IMO. Particularly with PLD, you rarely press most of their buttons anyway. I felt like HW had a lot more bloat issues since there were a lot more dots and OGCDs that did damage, with cross class skills like Mercy Stroke and more.

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Uh... You rarely press PLD buttons ?

Most of mine are always used. The exception being "passe d'arme" (the skill where you have wings behind your back, to protect your party).

DRK is more of a problem with adding what they need would give them too many buttons to work with so they'd have to compress something to make room. They just don't know what they want to do with DRK, honestly.

I feel like most classes suffer more from “APM bloat” or “redundant actions” bloat than they do true button bloat

Classes like DRK, NIN and AST suffer from APM bloat where they have messy overfull burst windows full of actions you only press during the burst window and then they are relatively boring outside of that (this is actually the one pro I give modern SMN, it never has a part of its rotation that actively feels weak like doing your 123 on NIN does)

PLD especially more so suffers from redundant actions bloat (but I could also point out the bension/aquaveil problem) where it just has alot of actions that while doing kinda different things all lead to the same result (not dying), clemency, intervention, cover, passage, shield lob they are all just kinda there

I’d say the only class right now suffering from true button bloat is SCH because SCH equals AST and PLD for most actions but all of SCH’s actions are actually unique and useful and it doesn’t have a bursty burst window you have to press 85 buttons in. Even if you deleted what most consider SCH’s 2 most useless actions (blessing and protraction) it still has close to the most actions of any class and beyond those two it becomes harder and harder to justify which action to delete

I'd argue every job has unnecessary bloat by having entirely segregated actions for AOE in a game where AOE is the most unimportant factor of combat that is almost never utilized beyond "here's a group of trash enemies or adds for you to burn down." If the game was constantly pitting us against multiple bosses that had more interesting movement patterns that made AOE advantageous at different moments, and that AOE was actually a meaningful DPS gain on 2 enemies for every job, it'd be a different story.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I'd argue every job has unnecessary bloat by having entirely segregated actions for AOE in a game where AOE is the most unimportant factor of combat that is almost never utilized beyond "here's a group of trash enemies or adds for you to burn down." If the game was constantly pitting us against multiple bosses that had more interesting movement patterns that made AOE advantageous at different moments, and that AOE was actually a meaningful DPS gain on 2 enemies for every job, it'd be a different story.

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On the other hand just making you do your single target rotation with AOE falloff in dungeons would make dungeons even less interesting, at least classes like BLM have actively interesting AOE rotations, I don’t want even more reason to have to press broil

I’d agree that more bosses need AOE phases (though they would have to better balance AOE because classes both do wildly different damage and not all classes start AOE’ing at the same number of enemies) but removing AOE buttons to just have broil have 40% falloff feels like the worst circle of hell

The reason AoE feels pointless now is that, going into EW, they decided that AoE should only be used on 3+ targets when they got rid of any minor 2-target optimisation gains from the game. There's basically no reason to press your AoE in 2-target boss fights/phases now unless you're a SCH or a SGE, and even then SGE only gains 10 potency.

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Originally Posted by Merrigan

Uh... You rarely press PLD buttons ?

Most of mine are always used. The exception being "passe d'arme" (the skill where you have wings behind your back, to protect your party).

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Yeah, buttons like Passage of Arms, Shield Bash, Clemency, Cover and even Bulwark since it was just re-added recently and Holy Shelton uptime is pretty substantial. Then when you're OT and tank swaps aren't needed, you use even fewer buttons. So your core rotation buttons are pretty minimal, all in all. That's not even mentioning all the hyper situational buttons like Low Blow and Interject.

If they actually leaned into the shield regen split properly SCH could potentially lose blessing, indom, ET, protraction and maybe union without losing too much, it was always debatable if giving SCH indom (especially when they made it critable with recitation) was a good idea since good AOE healing was always WHM’s niche in ARR, I’d also be in favour of nerfing the regen on sacred soil

SCH is too bloated with actions because its trying to do everything at once (which was its problem in HW)

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I feel like most classes suffer more from “APM bloat” or “redundant actions” bloat than they do true button bloat

Classes like DRK, NIN and AST suffer from APM bloat where they have messy overfull burst windows full of actions you only press during the burst window and then they are relatively boring outside of that (this is actually the one pro I give modern SMN, it never has a part of its rotation that actively feels weak like doing your 123 on NIN does)

PLD especially more so suffers from redundant actions bloat (but I could also point out the bension/aquaveil problem) where it just has alot of actions that while doing kinda different things all lead to the same result (not dying), clemency, intervention, cover, passage, shield lob they are all just kinda there

I’d say the only class right now suffering from true button bloat is SCH because SCH equals AST and PLD for most actions but all of SCH’s actions are actually unique and useful and it doesn’t have a bursty burst window you have to press 85 buttons in. Even if you deleted what most consider SCH’s 2 most useless actions (blessing and protraction) it still has close to the most actions of any class and beyond those two it becomes harder and harder to justify which action to delete

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This is actually my biggest problem with most jobs. The bursts are cool and flashy, but then there's a minute or more of downtime where you have nothing to do. I wouldn't mind if bursts were less busy and filler phases had more for you to do.

For healers, we really don't need a fancy burst phase, some more interesting filler would be enough. I will continue to point to PvP sage as a perfect example of healer DPS done right.

Most jobs seem to float at around 25 hotbar action slots + 5-7 role actions. The trend for new actions is to either upgrade a previously existing action (i.e. the perennial classic, Stone 16 becomes Stone 17), or to have them share the same hotbar slot with a previously existing action. This is either a one button combo or context-specific action (i.e. this action cannot be applied to a hotbar). Removing existing actions to make more space is an option as well, but generally doesn't seem to go down very well.

If you're looking for a combo system to model a casting rotation off of, the job to look at for inspiration is probably RDM.

Under the above principles, you would likely need to give up two to three other actions to do so at minimum for a combo alone, likely from your healing/defensive/support list. You are unlikely to get a net dps advantage despite such a sacrifice after role balancing is factored in, but I presume the end goal is just to make combat more satisfying.

Jobs with more intensive burst followed by extended downtime (i.e. jobs like NIN or DRK) tend to be that way because their hotbar space contains a high number of oGCDs. They have a similar trade-off to make as well, in that if you want a more interesting base rotation, you have to trade-off some of those oGCDs for GCDs. It really just comes down to what you're willing to part with to make it work.

Some of us have been giving feedback towards freeing up those 2 - 3 slots that you say would need to be given up. The FF14 devs have tech to merge buttons together too so that the button changes to a better version or one that is catered to the situation. cough SMN cough. WHM has quite a selection of buttons that could arguably be merged together like Afflatus Solace with Cure 2 and Afflatus Rapture with Medica. 3 of the healers have a Cure version that can be merged with a Cure 2 equivalent. SCH would be Physick vs. Adloquium and AST would be Benefic vs. Benefic 2. One could say we could just drop Cure, but what if the Levelling roulette gives us Satasha? At least allow the Cure 2 to drop down to Cure for that dungeon. All of this so far frees up 3 slots for WHM and 1 for SCH and AST.

For SCH, freeing up more slots might involve consolidating some Aether cooldowns with the fairy cooldowns. It looks like the intentions were for Aether cooldowns to charge up the fairy gauge, but the fairy healing spell rewards feel quite paltry. This might feel like it will remove SCHs ability to stagger their heals if Indomidability is fused with Fey Blessing (example), but I tend to use both of them together anyhow in 4 man dungeons >.> From what the Savage healers comment on, the moments they actually need to heal tend to be in bursts that are predicted from boss cooldown timers. Bosses don't seem to do enough unavoidable AoE pulses to warrant wanting to separate and stagger the healing over multiple cooldowns. Even if we want to retain the staggered healing use, Fey Blessing could probably still be merged with Indomidability to be like an oGCD combo it flips to after using the first step.

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Originally Posted by Tigore

Some of us have been giving feedback towards freeing up those 2 - 3 slots that you say would need to be given up. The FF14 devs have tech to merge buttons together too so that the button changes to a better version or one that is catered to the situation. cough SMN cough. WHM has quite a selection of buttons that could arguably be merged together like Afflatus Solace with Cure 2 and Afflatus Rapture with Medica. 3 of the healers have a Cure version that can be merged with a Cure 2 equivalent. SCH would be Physick vs. Adloquium and AST would be Benefic vs. Benefic 2. One could say we could just drop Cure, but what if the Levelling roulette gives us Satasha? At least allow the Cure 2 to drop down to Cure for that dungeon. All of this so far frees up 3 slots for WHM and 1 for SCH and AST.

For SCH, freeing up more slots might involve consolidating some Aether cooldowns with the fairy cooldowns. It looks like the intentions were for Aether cooldowns to charge up the fairy gauge, but the fairy healing spell rewards feel quite paltry. This might feel like it will remove SCHs ability to stagger their heals if Indomidability is fused with Fey Blessing (example), but I tend to use both of them together anyhow in 4 man dungeons >.> From what the Savage healers comment on, the moments they actually need to heal tend to be in bursts that are predicted from boss cooldown timers. Bosses don't seem to do enough unavoidable AoE pulses to warrant wanting to separate and stagger the healing over multiple cooldowns. Even if we want to retain the staggered healing use, Fey Blessing could probably still be merged with Indomidability to be like an oGCD combo it flips to after using the first step.

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Yeah, I've gone back to playing WHM over the weekend doing various content. I have no idea how they can make healers more proactive in fights. The entire design of the role in the trinity system is to react to the party taking damage or react to the threat of taking damage. Attacking is something that one does proactively and generally is something that is reacted to. So the main way to allow healers to be more proactive (DPS skill chains, etc), would be to have fewer points where the healers are forced to react (raise an ally, apply a heal OGCD or otherwise). The fights would need to have fewer points where it is "oh shit people are going to die" going from 100% to 10% HP from super attacks or unexpected loops of damage, such as when someone is learning savage, and move towards more gradual damage chains that are predictable but require attention. Another way to view it is instead of death being knife edge thrills it turns into gradual decay of ones health until they fall.

E.g. a boss does an aoe and hits the party. Everyone gets a debuff that if it stacks to 3 reduces everyones maximum HP by the damage dealt and can only be removed by using a healing spell or self heal skill. So instead of the fight being about healing people to max health after taking a huge hit, its about dpsing the boss and weaving in heals to remove the stacking debuffs and prevent permanent HP loss.

Many of my suggestions for healer reworks have resulted in around 18-20 hotbar actions with less role actions as well. It’s very doable when given some thought and a little creativity

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Many of my suggestions for healer reworks have resulted in around 18-20 hotbar actions with less role actions as well. It’s very doable when given some thought and a little creativity

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Neither thought nor creativity are allowed any more. We must pander to the immoral societal standards as per our corporate shareholders dictate. They don't want long term players anymore; only to be flashy for the current new generation, get their sub for a month, then move on.

So I wouldn't be surprised if all dots are removed in Dawn Trail, so healers only have 1 single target damage GCD, with the exception of SGE who will have 2, and Yoship will continue to say "if you want to DPS as healer, play SGE"

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Originally Posted by Mithron

So I wouldn't be surprised if all dots are removed in Dawn Trail, so healers only have 1 single target damage GCD, with the exception of SGE who will have 2, and Yoship will continue to say "if you want to DPS as healer, play SGE"

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Meanwhile Sage has less DPS abilities than every other healer somehow:

WHM: Glare/Holy, Dia, Afflatus Misery, Assize, Presence of Mind
SCH: Broil/Art of War, Biolysis, Energy Drain, Chain Stratagem
AST: Malefic/Gravtiy, Combust, Earthly Star, Minor Arcana, Draw & Play, Divination, Astrodyne
SGE: Dosis/Dyskrasia, Eukrasian Dosis, Phlegma