Would you like an in-game parser?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Hey, she's the one that compared it to my boss watching my performance at work. :O Clearly she's implying that she's my boss by parsing me, so it's only natural I'd expect payment.

---

That person never said your boss is parsing you. If you want me go give you an example I said earlier in the thread:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

I know this isn't game related but I will tell u regardles.
I work at one of the biggest companies in Norway and I'm a leader among with 4-5 others at that department we work at. Now, we recently had 2 guys appying and we tested them both. However one of them was doing shitbad, like propper bad. His excuse was because it's not needed to perform 100%, as bad that sounds we told him he has to search for another job, because when you work you are there to do it 100% not half ass.


To reply to your respons, if he was never bad I wouldn't call it out, but he was so it was needed. If people wasn't bad they would never got called out, so that's their own fault, not the c*unts you mention.

Another example this ninja ilvl 210 did 700 dps in bismarck and we never killed it, I told him he can be a lot better, at first he was a bit off, since he didn't know it was that bad. 1 week later after talking to my ninja friend, whos really good his dps incrased up to 950-1.2k dps. ON a dummy it incrased by 500 almost, insane isn't it? Now he never has ANYONE ''badmouthing'' him, because they have no reason to. Just because some one said you are bad, don't ignore the fact you are, start improve, if you don't you keep getting those harsh things coming your way. If you want it to stop, improve, don't ignore it and feel bad for yoruself or make a whole group and then say how bad life is because some one was mean to you for 10 seconds saying you didn't pull of your weight.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

50k Gil for every trash pull I end with 1k DPS plus, 400k for every trash pull with me doing 5k plus. Oh, and bosses are pricier, 250k per boss, 75k bonus for every multiple of 500 DPS I reach. And if you want a fully optimized opener, that'll be extra. If you want to start pretending your my boss, we'll have to discuss payment.

---

Im a tank if you want me to tank m2/m3 or m4 you need to PAY ME otherwise you will be the tank :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis

Im a tank if you want me to tank m2/m3 or m4 you need to PAY ME otherwise you will be the tank :p

---

No. I'm the tank. :I Being OT is boring to me.

ETA: I've long since progressed past the point of caring. I just want to push this topic to 100+ pages.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

50k Gil for every trash pull I end with 1k DPS plus, 400k for every trash pull with me doing 5k plus. Oh, and bosses are pricier, 250k per boss, 75k bonus for every multiple of 500 DPS I reach. And if you want a fully optimized opener, that'll be extra. If you want to start pretending your my boss, we'll have to discuss payment.

---

Point missed! The point is it's not personal information and is relevant to the whole party. It shouldn't be seen as a personal attack if someone points out your damage is low. Now if they do it nasty, that's another story, but that's not an overly common thing and, even if you see it often, most people will disagree with that person and it's reportable. But no, let's continue to argue ancillary points, miss points of the other side, and have no real discussion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kezy_Kaatapoh

Point missed! The point is it's not personal information and is relevant to the whole party.

---

If I have one week to do a task, it's not your problem if I decide to rush for 4 days and take it easy on the last 3.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kezy_Kaatapoh

But no, let's continue to argue ancillary points, miss points of the other side, and have no real discussion.

---

This :

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenji

I'm almost 100% positive your damage output is below average and your afraid you can't lazily go through content with out putting in effort

---

is where the serious discussion stopped.

So, some people complained that anti-parsers call all pro-parsers assholes or bully, but apparently, it's totally ok for pro-parsers to call anti-parsers lazy ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

is where the serious discussion stopped.
So, some people complained that anti-parsers call all pro-parsers assholes or bully, but apparently, it's totally ok for pro-parsers to call anti-parsers lazy ?

---

To reply to you about serious discussions:
Look at how people talk in this thread? I'm seriously going to go through the whole thread tomorrow and quote something similar, just cba atm as I need to sleep soon. Calling people piece of shit and then act whiteknight? Really?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeiUshu

You judged someone NOT worthy, in essence a piece of s**
Thank you for proving what many of us have been saying that this community is NOT mature enough to play with others and why parsers should NEVER BE IMPLEMENTED in this game.

---

And this person say community isn't mature? Look at how some anti parser people talks. I don't say everyone, but they exist, very much in this thread. The irony in many post. Now I don't agree with what the guy said about people being lazy. I'm aware and so are others people can dip of how they play their class and have no info how to improve. But before you talk about people being serious on discussion, go look for those people who are anti parser people calling people assholes, piece of shit, etc you name it.

Don't get me wrong but:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

This doesn't apply to all anti parsers however.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zenji

I'm sure I'm going to get someone mad, but the truth is if you have such a big problem with parsers I'm almost 100% positive your damage output is below average and your afraid you can't lazily go through content with out putting in effort and letting others pick up your slack. That's just my opinion.

---

From what I understand, he doesn't really say everyone, but there are many, far too many. There are more of lazy players than those pro parser assholes which you and many speak of. Want data and proof of it? I could go on for weeks, months day and compare to what I experience including people in my fc. I talk about people being jerks about parsers vs those who lazy, and when I talk lazy there are many of them ignoring the problem.

There are so many reasons why there are few people being assholes about parsers, because it offends people and when it happens they get reported, simple. I can report people for being lazy and actually ''trolling'' us. I actually witness it once, a guy wasn't even doing anything at all in the dungeon and the GM just showed up and removed him by himself. Why? The guy was selfish enough to barely do anything on mobs and refused to listen, the other guy in the group didn't want to kick him so I reported them both. I'm soooooooo glad some GM's find this as harrasement and toxic too.

No it's not okay to call anti parser people lazy, much as people shouldn't call parser people assholes.
What I've said countless of times, people who parsers can be assholes, but don't be in denial those who are anti parser people (not everyone) can be lazy. Both groups can be assholes in different terms. I'm actually so tired of saying it actually much as many pro parsers, time after time say it nearly every post: REPORT PEOPLE WHO HARRAS YOU WITH PARSERS! Yet you see 10000 people calling few of us assholes in this thread or like this guy I quoted calling people of shit. Is that a good example? I just want to give up sometimes,lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

If I have one week to do a task, it's not your problem if I decide to rush for 4 days and take it easy on the last 3.

This :

is where the serious discussion stopped.

So, some people complained that anti-parsers call all pro-parsers assholes or bully, but apparently, it's totally ok for pro-parsers to call anti-parsers lazy ?

---

It's not my problem, but I'm not saying it is either. As has been pointed out numerous times throughout this thread, we do not care about your DPS in a dungeon or other content that doesn't require you to do near optimal DPS. I don't care if you want to rush 4 days when you have a week. I do care if you have 4 days and want to take a week. You keep putting words in pro-parser people's mouths and ignore what they're actually saying. The only reason I'm even for a parser in non raiding/extreme content is for what someone else stated earlier, that new people or people who do care about their numbers, but have no way of knowing if they're good or not, have an immediate frame of reference to say, "oh hey, I can be doing more". If a parser were implemented, I would have no plans whatsoever to even bring up someone else's DPS unless we were dying to enrage or low DPS on a fight where DPS actually mattered, and even then I'd chat with them to see what's up, see what they're doing, and see if maybe we can do something as a team to fix it.

Many other people in this thread have expressed the same, but you don't want that to be our argument. You want our argument to be that we want to call out every single person doing low DPS in every content ever just so you have something to argue against, but that's not what we're saying. Will there be some people who do that? Of course! But they're already doing it because people who care enough to belittle you for DPS when it doesn't matter are already using a parser. It's not like parsers being allowed will suddenly make it ok to harass someone anyway. It'll always be reportable and I wouldn't have it any other way.

And no, serious discussion stopped ages ago when you started ignoring or twisting 90% of the arguments thrown at you. But not just you, other people have done the same (I made note of someone anti-parser being the most toxic person I've seen in this game, and I stand by that). It's not ok to call all anti-parsers lazy, and I disagree with that assertion. I never even mentioned that post because it wasn't relevant to what I was saying. But once again, you've decided for me what my stance is. Some people on the pro-parser side have been just as bad too! But this conversation goes nowhere when points are constantly twisted or ignored.

Just today, I was thinking about how mellow this thread had become. .___. I was wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rawrz

Just today, I was thinking about how mellow this thread had become. .___. I was wrong.

---

/Comfort - silver lining, more exposure. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rawrz

Just today, I was thinking about how mellow this thread had become. .___. I was wrong.

---

Parser threads can never be mellow :3

My personal view point is that because it is impossible to reach any kind of agreement it would be for the best to allow all the players to decide for themselves.

1st. Make the parser a PF option so that people who want to parse would join the parsing groups and people who do not want to parse would join the non-parsing groups.

2nd. Put a checkbox in DF so that the parsing players are matched together and non-parsing players are matched together.

Then everybody can be happy. ^^

Neither of those options would actually help anything though. At least with df, you'd either have the parsing group opting into the non parsing group if it's faster, or vice versa, and we'll just be in the same place we are currently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Neither of those options would actually help anything though. At least with df, you'd either have the parsing group opting into the non parsing group if it's faster, or vice versa, and we'll just be in the same place we are currently.

---

I don't think so. There would be an important change - having the option to choose.

If the non-parsing Q would be faster - you would join it while knowing you might fail more enrages.

If the parsing Q would be faster - you would join it while knowing people could comment on your dps.

But ultimately it would be on each player's head to decide if the shorter Q is worth the drawbacks which come with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kezy_Kaatapoh

It's not my problem, but I'm not saying it is either. As has been pointed out numerous times throughout this thread, we do not care about your DPS in a dungeon or other content that doesn't require you to do near optimal DPS. I don't care if you want to rush 4 days when you have a week. I do care if you have 4 days and want to take a week. You keep putting words in pro-parser people's mouths and ignore what they're actually saying.

---

No, I don't. If I managed to do the content previously, and the corresponding SSS, it means that I can do your week task in a week. If it's a week tast, I don't want you to only give me 4 days to do it.
If content were gated by SSS, then it would be easy to prove that I beat it just by entering, and if you don't see a first time notification, that I already won the content.
So, yes, in that case, I don't want you to bother me with a parser.

Again, we don't prevent you from using your parser for you, you have no authority to enforce that on us.

What if parser happens, then what?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

No, I don't. If I managed to do the content previously, and the corresponding SSS, it means that I can do your week task in a week. If it's a week tast, I don't want you to only give me 4 days to do it.
If content were gated by SSS, then it would be easy to prove that I beat it just by entering, and if you don't see a first time notification, that I already won the content.
So, yes, in that case, I don't want you to bother me with a parser.

Again, we don't prevent you from using your parser for you, you have no authority to enforce that on us.

---

But I don't care what you're doing as long as we clear. I have yet to see a pro-parser person say they care what you're doing as long as we clear.

You once again have decided my argument for me. The ONLY time I'd bring up the damage you or anyone else is doing is if we're failing because of it. I have made no argument at any point about utilizing a parser to call people out when we're able to clear content, so why are you arguing with me like I have?

Currently there's a total of about a dozen pro parser players that I've seen, at least on this thread, that claim what you claim. Unless you want to claim to speak for the vast majority, there's no evidence that's been put forth here that the majority of the pro parser population wouldn't harass and boot others for being a mere 100 DPS short of their exaggerated demands. On the other hand, there's a fair amount of evidence scattered all over the forums that parser data could, and is, abused, on a daily basis. While it's nice to be optimistic and hope that this data would only be used to help, it's much more logical to presume and predict what the worst case scenario would be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Currently there's a total of about a dozen pro parser players that I've seen, at least on this thread, that claim what you claim. Unless you want to claim to speak for the vast majority, there's no evidence that's been put forth here that the majority of the pro parser population wouldn't harass and boot others for being a mere 100 DPS short of their exaggerated demands. On the other hand, there's a fair amount of evidence scattered all over the forums that parser data could, and is, abused, on a daily basis. While it's nice to be optimistic and hope that this data would only be used to help, it's much more logical to presume and predict what the worst case scenario would be.

---

There's actually been quite a bit of evidence showing there won't be harassment from instituting an official parser, or at least no noticeable increase in the long run. Yes, there are people who will use it and have used it for abuse, but there's nothing showing that they wouldn't do the same abuse if there was no parser at all. People who belittle people with a parser will belittle you even without one. They'll find a reason to do it. But regardless, reporting is still 100% viable and something that would remain viable were a parser implemented. I'm completely against harassment, but the worst case scenario that's been put forth is mostly unfounded fears, or at least a misunderstanding of the root of harassment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Currently there's a total of about a dozen pro parser players that I've seen, at least on this thread, that claim what you claim. Unless you want to claim to speak for the vast majority, there's no evidence that's been put forth here that the majority of the pro parser population wouldn't harass and boot others for being a mere 100 DPS short of their exaggerated demands. On the other hand, there's a fair amount of evidence scattered all over the forums that parser data could, and is, abused, on a daily basis. While it's nice to be optimistic and hope that this data would only be used to help, it's much more logical to presume and predict what the worst case scenario would be.

---

Ahh but heres the thing about that. Most people, I believe, have a mild temperament and a sympathetic if not empathetic attitude. If one person says, your dps is low, when you are doing "100 dps off their exaggerated demand ," there are 2-6 other jurors who have to find you guilty, else it will cause strife for the party leader. Everyone has their own parser, everyone has their own standards. Demeaning accusations towards a stranger make me on that stranger's side, internally gathering evidence to defend them, until I've seen otherwise. Don't you think someone would defend the dps or try to absolve the situation? Most people, in my mind's eye, want to be perceived a pleasant and non-confrontational. Maybe I just don't like to watch unjustified belittling, if belittling is ever necessary in a game. A parser would just as easily defend the player.

This is also assuming that preformed parties gain a full parser only, which cannot vote kick, (also hello party finder resurgence), while duty finder, will give a personal parse only.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

...

---

I've been helping over 30 groups, I can even prove it to you, past few days this week. Seph extremes for example. Want to know average DPS with 225+ Ilvl and 230 weapon? 1.1k. How many people were called out in those group? None. This is not towards you, but many anti parsers in here make it sound like every duty you enter, hell even going to the bathroom in real life, there is a guy shouting at you doing bad dps. I'm not kidding it sounds like that. Because the biggest argument most of the anti parser crowd has is harrasements.

Want to know what I really dislike? Few people on this thread or forum judge me for using a parser? And am I seriously going to take them serious? Nah. I know I have bunch of friends who raids and doesn't raid using parsers and NO one ever gets shouted at for being low dps, if the dps is too low and we can't beat because of it, we find out some solution to it. I know it's not optimized to put 3 amazing dps with 1 that's far from being decent in a clear group. Clearing it and doing mechanics doesn't mean you did a amazing job, you still have to do your portion of dps. My friend struggled as healer to get a clear with random groups and his BRD friend. I out dpsed his brd as war. But did I call him trash? No, I said his dps should been higher and all he said was; Yeah I think I was low, according to parser that someone was copy pasting into the group. And you know, he actually has taken it as a hint that he needs to improve and he already has.

Why can't people be simply and take some advice or hints they need to improve rather than ignore it and call people assholes? I'm saying it again once more before people gonna use it as arguement card:
I'M FULLY AWARE!! PEOPLE CAN BE ASSHOLES ABOUT IT! Now, what I dont get is why does people think in every corner a pro parser is gonna be an asshole to you because 1 was it ages ago? I might as well quit helping people because majority can't do rotations well enough to clear content or simply do mechanics while handling decent dps or worse; ignoring trying to get better. Is that the way it should be? Hell no. So please, for the love of god, stop argue againt's us with the harrasment card, we agree with you guys on that side, what we don't agree, well certainly me, is you guys say a big majority does harras and it will be the dooms day of the game if an official one ever happens.

Before people gonna judge me again, please provide that you are ANY BETTER than most of us. I'm so damn sure, without knowing and being on people server on this thread there are bunch of great guys helping people out, THAT ARE ALSO USING A PARSER. Holy shit?! Is it true? A guy using a parser without being an asshole? Might as well believe in santa right? I'm all serious now, the harrasment card of 99% of people being pro parsers are assholes. Yawn. There is ONE guy in this thread(I wont call out name), that has one of the most toxic post ever created on this forum. Not only saying a big % of parser pro people are assholes, but acting like a white knight at the same proccess? Really?

Allow me to show you and everyone else what I've done recently:

http://i.imgur.com/DIKTaBU.png
5!!!!5 freaking people needed clear. Guess what, 2 out 8 people had parsers on. Did me or the other guy call out their dps being low? Nope, we wiped for a long time then we killed it.

Another example and please read the bottom chat before people gonna yawn me with their harrasment cards:

http://i.imgur.com/Pe8WRVV.png
HOLY!?!?!? There are 2 people with 210 weapons in seph extreme? Wooooooow, and guess what. 4 of us was parsing. Still cleared it and we helped them farm weapons, even the fact majority of us never needed anything from that fight anymore. So please, for those who judge me or others in here. Just stop, please stop.

Keep in mind harrasment will always been a problem in the game, having a parser doesn't mean it's green light to harras people for doing less or whatever. If people harras you, you blacklist them and report, simple. So many anti parsers in here either argue with themselves or simply put words in our mouths so they can have soemthing to argur with.

/Rant off.

Edit:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rawrz

. A parser would just as easily defend the player.

---

Excactly. If a guy was doing 100 dps less, it still would been fine. Top notch dps? Nope but it's still above an average player, so I'm pretty sure people would defend the guy and then again, this rarely happens and you and I both know it very well! What parser could also do is, there are people who actuall think they are godsent in a group but actually the worse one in group, that one happens actually a lot lol XD. ''Get gud guys'' > Ow his dps is 700 less than it should be and he harras people for no reason lol. If he had a parser, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't said shit about it haha!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

I've been helping over 30 groups, I can even prove it to you, past few days this week.

---

Yeah, I know how you deal with it, don't worry. But, saddly, none of us know enough people to foresee what the majority will do, especially in a situation that is not happening. Because yeah, parser being unofficial for now is a different situation. For each nice guy you can show, I'm pretty sure someone can show a corresponding bully. All pro-parsers aren't, but you can't there isn't any.

As for me, as I said before, I have my DPS-obsessed-bully, even though he is a nice guy apart from that, my static leader. A guy that asked us several times to wipe in Thordan's Reign phase 1 because we didn't bring the boss down below 65% before phasing. Or the one who asked us to wipe on Seph EX as soon as any DPS dies in the first phase...After several months of leading my own static through Coil, this new mentality pushed me away from raiding altogether.

So, yeah, I'd probably have no issue showing numbers in a party lead by you, but with a more fishy leader, I'd rather hide it to gauge how he deals with issues first. That's the beauty of having an on/off option. To act nice with nice people and to protect us from jerks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Currently there's a total of about a dozen pro parser players that I've seen, at least on this thread, that claim what you claim. Unless you want to claim to speak for the vast majority, there's no evidence that's been put forth here that the majority of the pro parser population wouldn't harass and boot others for being a mere 100 DPS short of their exaggerated demands. On the other hand, there's a fair amount of evidence scattered all over the forums that parser data could, and is, abused, on a daily basis. While it's nice to be optimistic and hope that this data would only be used to help, it's much more logical to presume and predict what the worst case scenario would be.

---

I've kept a distance from this thread for a while considering I already have a long history of posts in other threads like this one each time they come up. However I'd like to counter the point you've provided real quick as it seems to always come up in these threads.

I implore you to watch this video: WoW: Accessibility and Apathy

Like really, really watch it it's been posted in nearly every one of these threads by multiple posters, multiple times.

While it isn't primarily about the use of a parser it does touch on the issue quite well and shows what the likely scenario would be which is overall apathy from the general playerbase, granted this was done in World of Warcraft which allows the use of add-ons and by extension parsing programs. The results however are not to be ignored as WoW also boasts the largest sample size of players and experiences one could ever hope for on any subject concerning MMO players as it is still the most subscribed MMO in the history of the genre.

Yes there will be cases of harassment occasionally (something that happens already regardless of parser usage), however over the greater size of the player-base it isn't likely to be an issue and even in the cases that it does happen GM support is there for exactly this reason, to resolve of issues of player harassment as they do currently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

guy that asked us several times to wipe in Thordan's Reign phase 1 because we didn't bring the boss down below 65% before phasing. .

---

Dont think thats even possible. Ive seen bullies. Just not in a large scale as people claim. Before I knew I was doing decent enough I ofte got called out on my DRG or Mnk. Now that im Just fine, even if im not the best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

Dont think thats even possible.

---

Don't remember the exact numbers. It just pissed me off because we were still learning the fight...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

Just not in a large scale as people claim.

---

And we don't need to do this "parser or not parser" in a large scale either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Don't remember the exact numbers..

---

Pushing 70% was optimal. Leaving less dps and few mistakes in last phase being high DPS check and you had alot of movent. But if it was for kill I would understand. But training not really. If you were training for next phase its good to start early pushing the dps imo. Getting used to it I mean. Things is there wont be higher % of harrasment even with parser being official. If there was a large scale of harrasment because of parser it would already happen, but its not. Harrasment is harrasment, simple.

Also thordan was a hard primal for a big part of the community, they even mentioned they won't make primals like that ever again. I hope that tells you something.

Man, that video is the truth for all MMO's in this current decade, and probably for the rest of the genre's lifespan.

People are literally encouraged to perform within mediocrity or below because things are made to facilitate that mindset. Tokens for gear, no competition for rare pieces of armor (or rare pieces of armor in general, nothing really jumps out at you anymore, it's crafted, tomes, or endgame gear). For majority of the 60 content it only requires ilvl equivalent gear and the ability to push three buttons to finish the dungeon. That's all the 99% needs...and in the hopes of making money, SE would rather bank on the mediocrity of the 99% than the dedication of the 1%

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WeekendSoja

Man, that video is the truth for all MMO's in this current decade, and probably for the rest of the genre's lifespan.

People are literally encouraged to perform within mediocrity or below because things are made to facilitate that mindset. Tokens for gear, no competition for rare pieces of armor (or rare pieces of armor in general, nothing really jumps out at you anymore, it's crafted, tomes, or endgame gear). For majority of the 60 content it only requires ilvl equivalent gear and the ability to push three buttons to finish the dungeon. That's all the 99% needs...and in the hopes of making money, SE would rather bank on the mediocrity of the 99% than the dedication of the 1%

---

I was going to stay out of this thread as my position is known and I've said all I have to say on the matter, but this comment cannot be allowed to go unanswered.

People who have their heads all gassed up and think like this need to know one thing: You are not the Special Snowflakes you fancy yourselves to be. You've worked your way through Savage content and can farm Sephirot EX in your sleep? Good for you, but don't even think you're above everyone else just because you're one of the few who are doing this content regularly. Being part of an endgame static group does not give you license to trash people who get their gear through means other than raiding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hayward

I.

---

But where does people say (pro parsers) say it's fine to trash people who doesn't do seph extreme or savage? Mostlikely those who doesn't can't do it or simply doesn't want to. No one mention those at all, so I don't really see where you going with your comment. I don't really care how much dps they do in dungeons as long they are putting enough effort atleast, rather than half ass it and expect people to do the whole job for lazy one.
I have to say it again:
No one gives a damn about those who focus on roulettes or normal mode alex only. No one cares about those peoples dps in dungeons as long they are doing a decent amount of effort.
No one gives a damn ass abou those who doesn't raid or even want to do extreme primals. What we do care about are people who do savage or primals and they need to pull effort into it. We aren't saying you need to be top elite player to do it as long you put your weight on it which is about 80-85% of your own effort.

Even if you don't raid or don't do extreme primals, doesn't give you the right to just AFK or click 1-2 buttons through out the dungeon.

For me not wanting a public parser isn't about being lazy. I do try in dungeons. I just don't really want to play XIV with the constant feeling that I'm being evaluated.

I think a personal parser with an option for pre-made groups to opt in to a public parser would solve most issues. Or just make the public parser standard for Extremes/Raids/high end content where DPS checks are an issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moomba33

For me not wanting a public parser isn't about being lazy. I do try in dungeons. I just don't really want to play XIV with the constant feeling that I'm being evaluated.

I think a personal parser with an option for pre-made groups to opt in to a public parser would solve most issues. Or just make the public parser standard for Extremes/Raids/high end content where DPS checks are an issue.

---

I agree with that. Because we all know that most pro parsers talk about high end content, so I don't really know why people mention dungeons. However, it is sad when people let people stay lazy in dungeons and just accept it. No, just no.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hayward

but don't even think you're above everyone else just because you're one of the few who are doing this content regularly.

---

When you just want entertainment without effort, you watch a quiz show in TV.

When you want a challange, you participate in the quiz show.

Same here.

When you just want entertainment without eny effort, playing a game is not the right thing for you. You should sit back and watch only, like in the quiz show example above.

Playing games is for people, that are sick of just consuming without anything to do. Playing games is for people that want the challenge and not just watch it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ryel

While it isn't primarily about the use of a parser it does touch on the issue quite well and shows what the likely scenario would be which is overall apathy from the general playerbase, granted this was done in World of Warcraft which allows the use of add-ons and by extension parsing programs..

---

All this video shows us is that Parsers wont effect the game in the way some people in this thread paint it, either negative or positive.

The bad players wont want to do better just because there are numbers on screen, the good ones don't need these numbers outside the most recent content and anyone doing that content most likely already uses a parser or has someone running one for them making it moot. The only people who are effected are those who don't understand how to use parsers, alienating them and causing confusion the numbers provided by a parser aren't just "Bigger is better" making it easy for people who don't understand that to mistakenly attack other players or think they are actually doing poorly when they are doing fine.

I think parsers are a fine tool but those who need them already have them I think it's redundant to want to force it on everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KarstenS

When you just want entertainment without eny effort, playing a game is not the right thing for you. You should sit back and watch only, like in the quiz show example above.

---

So, playing a video game is not for those who just want entertainement ?!
Do you realize what nonsense this is ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

Make the parsers standars for extremes/raids/high end content where dps checks are issue.

---

Yes, make parsers who could feel like you're judged standard in the only content where people would take the time to judge you...That's still the same issue.
No one would ever call out on your DPS in extreme dungeons, hard mode trials or 24-man raid...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

So, playing a video game is not for those who just want entertainement ?!
Do you realize what nonsense this is ?

Yes, make parsers who could feel like you're judged standard in the only content where people would take the time to judge you...That's still the same issue.
No one would ever call out on your DPS in extreme dungeons, hard mode trials or 24-man raid...

---

I don't follow, sorry? You talk about having parsers in extremes/raids a bad thing as well?
Because in this content dps actually matters and well if you can't do enough and I talk about knowing atleast what you are doing, that should be more than enough. If people can't fix their shit in there, they have to somewhat practice more or even know more about their class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jynx

I think parsers are a fine tool but those who need them already have them I think it's redundant to want to force it on everyone.

---

While I do agree to some extent, there is one key variable that flips this entirely on it's head when comparing it to WoW (or 99% of MMOs for that matter). WoW is PC exclusive, which means that 100% of the playerbase has access to a parser if they really wanted to, whereas XIV is across the PS3 and PS4 where those players literally have no access to such a tool, putting them at a "disadvantage" to PC players if they ever wanted or needed to use a parser. People could cite FFXI as a game that didnt have or need parsers/addon support, but this game is far more akin to WoW in it's combat style and requirements than XI, and therefore we need to compare this as WoW if it had a console port that couldn't have a parser, which puts holes in your arguement.

Also offhand: we got more details on raid finder today, the practice section seems like it would be a great place for an opt in global parser to test damage outputs for specific phases. Doesn't help with Ex primals, but it would be a start. If it worked like this: 1) you can only practice phases that you have reached. 2) You can set requirements so that people can only join who have beaten X phase, either in practice or progression.What this would mean is that in order to join said group you should use practice (and the help of the global parser) to improve yourself and your team in order to prove to progression groups that you can beat the content, to me this (in conjunction with SSS) would be the perfect way to run this system at it's absolute strictest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

I don't follow, sorry? You talk about having parsers in extremes/raids a bad thing as well?

---

I talk about forcing parsers on others as a bad thing. If everyone in a party want it, fine, use it. But if someone doesn't want, then he still have the right to do so...without being called lazy or "almost certainly bad".
Like you can ask if you can parse anyone without being called an asshole.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

XIV is across the PS3 and PS4 where those players literally have no access to such a tool, putting them at a "disadvantage" to PC players if they ever wanted or needed to use a parser.

---

Technically, just being on PS3 is considered a disadvantage by some, simply with longer loading times. And you already see people asking to shutdown this playerbase entirely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

I talk about forcing parsers on others as a bad thing. If everyone in a party want it, fine, use it. But if someone doesn't want, then he still have the right to do so...without being called lazy or "almost certainly bad".
Like you can ask if you can parse anyone without being called an asshole.

---

Well true, but if people somewhat finds out this guy doesn't pull his weight, he shouldn't be there in the first place no?. Don't get me wrong, everyone has a chance, but if he/she is the person who doesn't pull their weight, that's a problem as well. If hes decent, he stays and that's totally fine. If he undeperform under the % he should do, then he should fix it. That's my honest opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Seraphix2407

Well true, but if people somewhat finds out this guy doesn't pull his weight, he shouldn't be there in the first place no?. Don't get me wrong, everyone has a chance, but if he/she is the person who doesn't pull their weight, that's a problem as well. If hes decent, he stays and that's totally fine. If he undeperform under the % he should do, then he should fix it. That's my honest opinion.

---

Yes, it's true. Like I said in my previous example, if I did SSS and if I already won before, then there is no reason for you to parse me if I don't want to. Maybe I'm not up to your standards, but I am for the content standards, and that's enough.
But people tend to be more strict than the game itself, and that's my issue. Like asking for a relic to invite for Titan hard mode...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Technically, just being on PS3 is considered a disadvantage by some, simply with longer loading times. And you already see people asking to shutdown this playerbase entirely.

---

Well yeah, thats why I didn't want to discount them from the argument completely, though the problem lies when we are thinking more about the PS4 players, the primary console players. Either way, it's irrelevant to the arguement

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Well yeah, thats why I didn't want to discount them from the argument completely, though the problem lies when we are thinking more about the PS4 players, the primary console players.

---

It's still only a problem if you consider that a parser is needed, which I don't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Yes, it's true. Like I said in my previous example, if I did SSS and if I already won before, then there is no reason for you to parse me if I don't want to. Maybe I'm not up to your standards, but I am for the content standards, and that's enough.
But people tend to be more strict than the game itself, and that's my issue. Like asking for a relic to invite for Titan hard mode...

---

Now if you beat the content before means you have done good enough to do it. Maybe not the best or maybe being the top dps, it's either and it's fine you don't want to be parsed. It means you have dps and knowledge of fight. But there can be scenarios people have beat content but been dead weight, meaning they are doing so low they are pretty much carried. Many people can beat an SSS on a rotation for 3 min, doesn't mean they will pull good dps in the fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

It's still only a problem if you consider that a parser is needed, which I don't.

---

It's not needed but it can also see who is leeching or need improvements, which a lot of people can't see. I highly doubt even you can see a who in the group under perform.

Like you mentioned thordan. Most core midicore/hardcore groups pushed him to 67-70% before next phase, while most saw the buster at 75-80%. You could never tell in a group like that who did bad or not. A guy could be doing 40% more of a guys dps. What if some one blamed him and they had no proof of it? Parsers could defend people from making that happening.