Why Does It Feel Like Poor Play Is Acceptable (I'm Venting.)

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Originally Posted by savageink

I find it disingenuous to leave out that he knew nothing about what the other guy was thinking because he bailed without asking. And your answers also would require that knowledge for them to be informed.

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I see that you don’t understand what a “hypothetical scenario” type of question is, in which all the information is given, and a question about reactions is being posed, presuming all knowledge/intentions are known.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Rokku even says he is not connecting the two posts, but that they are entirely separate from one another.
Please use a bit of reading comprehension before jumping into a discussion.

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Lol! It's the same post except he left out the part where he bailed without asking. Give me a break.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

snip.

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Yes and no, this is the “lazy” part people speak of because you can easily YouTube or google a rotation and even advanced optimization’s, class comps, bis gear, and everything else lol this game is not hard it just requires people to put forth effort...but yes there could be more ways in turns of helping new players but they also should know where to go for information because it’s the same with all mmos google, forums, Reddit, etc...

People aren’t just great from the start these “pros” people speak of just dedicate more time into learning their jobs and or positions which is the same opportunity everyone else has...

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I see that you don’t understand what a “hypothetical scenario” type of question is, in which all the information is given, and a question about reactions is being posed, presuming all knowledge/intentions are known.

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Maybe if it was hypothetical, I'd care.

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Originally Posted by savageink

Lol! It's the same post except he left out the part where he bailed without asking. Give me a break.

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He said that he is presenting a hypothetical scenario entirely separate from his DF post; a scenario in which all the information about intent/purpose is known (i.e., it is known that the person joined a random Skalla run—or we could be even more broad and just say “Level 70 content”—specifically to gain light for an old Relic, it is known that they have been asked to switch their weapons, and it is known that they refused to do so because they want light).

Again, stop mixing this thread’s post and another thread’s post together, because they are being presented in two entirely separate ways (one is a personal experience, the other is a hypothetical situation asking for other people’s responses to a presented situation).

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Originally Posted by savageink

Maybe if it was hypothetical, I'd care.

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Alright. I see that this is going nowhere since, even when presented with the fact that the post in this thread is entirely hypothetical and separate from a post in a completely different thread, you refuse to acknowledge and contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way. Have a nice evening.

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

I have a few questions concerning weapons in content (I brought up something similar to the DF thread):

A person enters a Skalla run with mostly 310 gear, but has an ilvl 260 weapon with the intention of gaining light for their anima relic. Do you think this is respectful or disrespectful? Also would you want to go through the potential trouble of asking that person to switch to a higher item level weapon? Finally, in the event the person refuses to switch, would you put up with relic grinder with a weapon that has an item level way below the required item level number?

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Change weapon or get kicked, i will say that. If people are abusing the DF in that way, they need change the rules. I am tried of people thinking it is ok just because the system allows it to.

@savageink, stop the back and forth, HyoMinPark is right, you can't assume people know the full story or the story being referenced (they might of changed the implied idea from it btw), what I said is what I would do with the content in said post. Would I want to go though it? NO because most of the time even if you ask in a way "Do you have a different weapon for this place, I think you forgot to change weapons" people will give some kind of snide/aggressive reply more then not.

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Originally Posted by winsock

You dont need to accept poor performer, you can kick them or what have you, but it is completely unreasonable to expect everyone who was randomly assigned to you in the duty finder to meet your expectations every time.

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What you seem to not be getting is that no one is enforcing "their" standard. That is where your attempts at an argument fall apart. We're talking about a reasonable standard. Would you not consider being geared at minimum ilvl a reasonable standard and not a player enforced one? That's not the player saying "you need gear at this level at least for this", that's the game itself saying it. Would you consider a max level to be a reasonable standard by which to have an understanding, even if basic, of a job and how it works? Is it not reasonable to expect a max level tank to be capable of holding aggro and utilizing defensive cooldowns as needed? By all means, explain where "reasonable standard" is somehow lost in translation here.

I'm not going to even entertain your attempt at trying to break down my "sports" metaphor. And before you even think about trying to play the "well you're just dodging it because you can't give a rebuttal" bit, no, I'm not dodging it one bit. But neither one of us would get anything substantial from me deconstructing a weak argument or talking down to you. Not when there are bigger points that are being missed here. So, effectively, think what you want on that one, but bring a better argument before you try breaking mine down.

Lastly, you seem to have stopped at my mention of Brayflox, attempting to form your rebuttal right then and there. The larger point of that tangent was to point out that the dungeon is subtle in pushing players to learn things that they'll be dealing with forever after, and in a way that begins to sow the seeds of effective team play in their understanding of general gameplay, and how their job/role fits into it. I noted that newer players make fewer mistakes there in the learning environment than some endgame players make in endgame content, where it becomes time to skillfully apply what was learned. And again, would you not call it reasonable to expect more competency and fewer missteps from an experienced player (at least as level would dictate) than a newer player?

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I see that this is going nowhere since, even when presented with the fact that the post in this thread is entirely hypothetical and separate from a post in a completely different thread, you refuse to acknowledge and contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way. Have a nice evening.

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What's there to discuss? This version of the story was presented to get agreement.

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Originally Posted by savageink

What's there to discuss? This version of the story was presented to get agreement.

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read my post, also:

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Originally Posted by savageink

I find it disingenuous to leave out that he knew nothing about what the other guy was thinking because he bailed without asking. And your answers also would require that knowledge for them to be informed.

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ITS NOT THE POINT HERE! now stop. If you want to debate the issues you have with the story there, do so there! stop putting things in RokkuEkkusu's mouth:

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

Thank you Hyomin. The other thread is me saying what happened to me. This thread has me asking what would happen if the person who read my question experienced a similar situation and how he/she would feel about it in a hypothetical sense.

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he flat out said it is a different topic being talked about, now STOP! RokkuEkkusu can speak what he means, he does not need you misrepresenting his point.

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

Tell a dps to aoe you get screamed at or kicked, tell a tank not to pull to much because they have no clue on cd usage same end result, tell a healer to dps because the tank needs like zero healing same result, so it’s become norm because people just stopped trying to deal with it and played with their friends instead

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in other words we people have stopped asking the poor players to git gut or kicking them and instead we carry them through the content when we meet them.

wich further means we people made poor play acceptable.

but we were not alone. the poor players themself made poor play acceptable when they refused to unlock pharos sirius or immediately left when they got it in roulette, back in 2.1. after that sqaure begun to nerf old dungeons and the dungeons they added new were much easier (oh no, i am so bad and i refuse to get better, i have to run away from this dungeon!).