LOLSE, We're not wearing 270 STR to hold hate, c'mon now...

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

The problem is that the large skill gap in this game's player base causes SE to design content where tanks and healers who have a full understanding of both their job and the content are able to focus on dps while still performing the duties relevant to their role. I fail to see how nerfing tank damage fixes the problem; they'll still be focusing on dps, they just won't be doing as much.

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Honing your skills to do more DPS is a good thing. The problem is that the choice of gear had nothing to do with actuall skills.

It's like comparing a bad ilvl300 DRG and a good i150DRG and saying that the first one is a better player because his number is higher.

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Originally Posted by Splitinfinity

If the problem was indeed subpar dps in future content and dps roles are played competently enough but is still not enough, then the problem then lies with SE for designing content knowing that the changes they made to the tanks would lead to this outcome.

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"Competently enough" would not result in subpar DPS output in such an example, but if it DOES happen to prove to be the case that even optimal DPS is not enough to clear things like Savage without equally exceptional Tank and Healer damage output, then I'll certainly agree that the fault lies with the dev team for breaking their own content with the changes they've made. As it stands right now, though, we don't have a precedent as of yet for that to be the case, at least as far as I'm aware of. I have noticed, on the other hand, that sometimes Tanks and Healers have still had to completely salvage a party almost singlehandedly, which means that the potential for issues to arise based on the lowered damage threshold of Tanks (and potentially Healers as well) certainly exists, which is a cause for concern. While we do, indeed, have to wait and see what the future holds, I am of the opinion that it would be just as negligent to not voice aloud these preliminary concerns in addition to the overall sense of dissatisfaction that our longtime-played Jobs no longer feel as though they have the same usefulness and potential that they once had just two patches ago.

Preferences aside, the community reps have already encouraged discussions and exchanges of differing ideas like this as it helps them to figure out what, exactly, the community is looking for, which they relay to the dev team in order to help them decide on which adjustments should be made.

I get that people are dissatisfied with tanks right now ( I'm especially disappointed with how DRK turned out) but is clamoring for the previous vit damage scaling or implementing a similar mechanic to increase DPS really the best solution to this? As you mentioned right now we need to see what the future holds to know if subpar dps will indeed be an issue. And SE heavily implied that this dps reduction was intentional. So why fervently continue to oppose this? Can we not just ask SE to give us a class redesign to make them more fun without resorting to DPS if they insist on the traditional tank model?
But at the end of the day I guess it is SEs fault for giving tanks a taste of that juicy dps meta. And I guess it is the players choice to adapt or to desire the previous meta. Just sad for me that people would rather have a dps tank than ask SE to redesign tanks to be more fun while being more in line with traditional mmo tanks

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Originally Posted by Splitinfinity

And SE heavily implied that this dps reduction was intentional. So why fervently continue to oppose this? Can we not just ask SE to give us a class redesign to make them more fun without resorting to DPS if they insist on the traditional tank model?

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For me, they should expand the DPS skills so that the rotation itself is more interesting, outside of any gear consideration.
On top on that, since they apparently want to enforce tank stance usage, remove VIT accessories completely, keep the damage scaling on STR, increase damage received and increase the eHP gain on tank stances so that you'd be wrecked if you MT in DPS stance.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

*snip*

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Probably because the first slot to be removed when content is on farm is a tank slot, unless mechanics demand 2 tanks.

Furthermore, the best mitigation of damamge to the party will always be death to the enemy. The faster it dies, the less you have to mitigate, the less you have to heal.

Tanks are the LAST people you need to be telling to change jobs. If anything, you need to be on your knees giving them reasons to stay

Main conserne is that. It is no fun beating rock whit wooden stick
If they whant reduce tank dps then tank need become true support. Whit utility that will increase dps dmg and disrupt opponents. If we don't have that then only thing that make tank fun over long run will be dps race. How far can you push limits whit limitations tanks are set in

So I think it's pretty safe to say that a major part of the reason tanks got switched back to STR, is because of the death penalty changes, and how it only effects STR/DEX/INT/MND, they most likely changed tanks because they did that then realized that with the old scaling system a death to a tank did nothing (since they scaled with VIT). So now we scale with STR as to fall under the umbrella of still receiving a penalty to dying.

Wouldn't a simple solution to this whole STR/VIT issue simply be to set tanks back to VIT scaling, then have "Weakness" and "Brink of Death" be a 15% and 30% POTENCY cut, instead of a 15/30% main-stat reduction, that way death still has the penalty of dps/hps lost, but preserves the health of the player so that they don't get curb-stomped upon revival as well as allowing tanks to actually scale with the stat that their gear gives them.

Once agian, many people are kinda missing the point, so ill quote myself

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Originally Posted by Nowakii

TL;DR: We (healers) dont have Heals/shields that scales with target's Hps .... the problem is not tank's doing bad dps, but them being forced to get VIT when it helps nothing to the party or themselves.

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Originally Posted by Nowakii

Once agian, many people are kinda missing the point, so ill quote myself

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WHM has.
And as WAR Thrill of Battle comes to mind, the effect of that scales with VIT.

TBN scale off hp darn