Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

Should I really include Jump skills in my usual DPS rotation?

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Yes...only if you know it's safe to do so i.e. landslide/plumes/red boxes/circles in general aren't coming.

2.1 Jumps are getting buffed as well. From the notes it's faster animation and more control during the end of the jump. So might as well get used to using them now :)

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Originally Posted by Sir_Maxwell

Yes...only if you know it's safe to do so i.e. landslide/plumes/red boxes/circles in general aren't coming.

2.1 Jumps are getting buffed as well. From the notes it's faster animation and more control during the end of the jump. So might as well get used to using them now :)

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Alright! Thanks! I just levelled my DRG to 50 so I'm still checking things out.

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Originally Posted by Ayvar

BiS Coil Gear

Mythology: Belt, Chest, Neck, Ring 1
Allagan: Boots, Bracelet (Maiming), Earring (Striking), Gloves, Helm, Leggings, Ring 2 (Striking)

Thankfully most of the best gear is dropped, so you only have to worry about purchasing one expensive piece with mythology tomes as the other three pieces are "cheap".

Here's a more visually pleasing version of the above list (provided by Kheten from page 44):

http://xivdb.com/?wardrobe/2901/DRG-BiS

And this is a Pre-Turn 5 Coil version for the people that requested it. Just be careful with this set, there is a lot of added mythology gear, and the extra tome expense may not be worth it if you plan to reach Turn 5 anytime soon, so start by purchasing the Mythology pieces that are common to both sets:

http://xivdb.com/?wardrobe/3298/Pre-Turn-5-DRG-BiS

Ayvar

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why is BiS Allagan? http://xivdb.com/?wardrobe/2901/DRG-BiS why not Wyrms Breeches?

Due to lack of accuracy in Wyrms Breeches

IMHO the BiS link in the OP's post can be improved.

My config would be: http://xivdb.com/?wardrobe/4119/Dragoon-BiS

Everything is the same - just that opted for 2 Allagan Rings but the other opted for 1 Hero's Ring of Slaying.

End result is I sacrificed 11 Skill Speed for 11 Accuracy (Crit and Determination remains the same at 140 and 112 respectively).

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

IMHO the BiS link in the OP's post can be improved.

My config would be: http://xivdb.com/?wardrobe/4119/Dragoon-BiS

Everything is the same - just that opted for 2 Allagan Rings but the other opted for 1 Hero's Ring of Slaying.

End result is I sacrificed 11 Skill Speed for 11 Accuracy (Crit and Determination remains the same at 140 and 112 respectively).

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BiS gear puts you at the accuracy cap for coil meaning any extra acc is useless.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Edit: I looked at your lodestone profile and you could probably improve your DPS if you chugged a fantasia potion and switched to anything else besides a Lalafell.

Just sayin'.

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What is wrong with being an adorable midget of death?

Thanks for the post! I will freely admit that I am a baby dragoon with visions of flying through the air dancing in my head.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

IMHO the BiS link in the OP's post can be improved.

My config would be: http://xivdb.com/?wardrobe/4119/Dragoon-BiS

Everything is the same - just that opted for 2 Allagan Rings but the other opted for 1 Hero's Ring of Slaying.

End result is I sacrificed 11 Skill Speed for 11 Accuracy (Crit and Determination remains the same at 140 and 112 respectively).

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You actually also lose 3 determination.

However i agree that what you posted is the BiS. The other set will only put you at 470 acc, where as this set puts you at 481 acc. I guess it is still up in the air for the acc cap for turn 5 (I have never missed with 479 acc) but there are reports of misses at 470 acc.

Hello again,

I tried doing the following rotation (it's from the first page) but it seems I always lack 1.5s to fully benefit from the first HT buff before I hit the LS+FT combo.

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HT-IR-Fr-BFB-Ph-Sweep-ID-Dis-PS-CT-Jump-TT-VT-LS-FT // -HT-Fr-Sweep-Ph-TT-VT-FT-ID-Dis-CT-HT-Sweep-Fr-Ph-TT-Jump-VT-FT-TT-VT-FT-Sweep

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Is it just me? or anyone else having the same problem with me during the actual encounters? Removing Fracture will make the rotation better, but I'm not sure if I lose alot of DPS by doing so.

The key thing to note is the time it takes you to transition from Heavy Thrust over to Impulse Drive and the Jump you use in the middle of it.

You might spend something like half a second or more going from the flank to the rear of an enemy so make sure that this is done inbetween the Global Cooldown - for instance, RIGHT after you use Heavy Thrust, start moving to the rear (pray your tank stays still). This way, once you're able to use Impulse Drive, you can use it right away instead of getting into position.

Your Jump right after Chaos Thrust is in a place where you'll lose out on something like half a second or more by the entire animation taking so long to wind up and wind down.

These two things are probably where your 1.5 seconds is going/being used up - yeah, dropping Fracture would solve it too but I like the idea that more DoTs = better failsafe if something goes wrong (such as being in a Pick Up Group and the Tank just doesn't sit still or is in a bad position etc.)

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Originally Posted by Biggabertha

The key thing to note is the time it takes you to transition from Heavy Thrust over to Impulse Drive and the Jump you use in the middle of it.

You might spend something like half a second or more going from the flank to the rear of an enemy so make sure that this is done inbetween the Global Cooldown - for instance, RIGHT after you use Heavy Thrust, start moving to the rear (pray your tank stays still). This way, once you're able to use Impulse Drive, you can use it right away instead of getting into position.

Your Jump right after Chaos Thrust is in a place where you'll lose out on something like half a second or more by the entire animation taking so long to wind up and wind down.

These two things are probably where your 1.5 seconds is going/being used up - yeah, dropping Fracture would solve it too but I like the idea that more DoTs = better failsafe if something goes wrong (such as being in a Pick Up Group and the Tank just doesn't sit still or is in a bad position etc.)

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Doing so in a Dummy Target is pretty much easy, I can pull it off easily, but as I was giving it a thought in actual fights, I just can't imagine that I can really pull it off as there will be instances that your DPS rotation will be interrupted hence the chain will be broken.

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

Is it just me? or anyone else having the same problem with me during the actual encounters? Removing Fracture will make the rotation better, but I'm not sure if I lose alot of DPS by doing so.

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Just use one of the Fracture-less rotations if you're having issues hitting FT with HT still up. The dps differences between any of the rotations are extremely small

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Based on a brief discussion on reddit, I evaluated one variant of the simpler rotations and it's pretty good and consistent/reliable:

HP IDC TTT / HP IDF TTT

So basically a stupid-simple repeat cycle replacing Chaos Thrust with Fracture every other cycle. No compensation required for DOT clipping unless you have abnormal levels of skill speed.

The only possible downsides are: (a) it uses Impulse Drive more often than many other rotations, requiring more "back time", and (b) it uses slightly more TP than a rotation with 0 Fracture. The fact that it only uses FR once every other cycle mitigates that a bit.

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Easy, I forgot to mention this at the time, but does this mean you'd like the rotation credited to you in the guide to be changed? I deal with the CT clipping issue in a later section, but I can just swap the rotations out if you like this one better overall

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Originally Posted by pompey_dan

The other set will only put you at 470 acc, where as this set puts you at 481 acc. I guess it is still up in the air for the acc cap for turn 5 (I have never missed with 479 acc) but there are reports of misses at 470 acc.

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I posted a parse somewhere in pages 50-60 showing no misses over an hour and a half on Turn 5 with 473 accuracy. I'm not saying you'll 100% never ever miss with 473, but the percentages are so small it'd be effectively 0%.

EDIT: Here's the link - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1543456

So what foods are my Dragoon brothers using?

Buttons in a blanket! Cheap to make and they get the job done. I'm sure there are better options, but srsly... Some of the food is just hell to craft/gather or too expensive to buy.

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Originally Posted by Ayvar

Just use one of the Fracture-less rotations if you're having issues hitting FT with HT still up. The dps differences between any of the rotations are extremely small

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Mind directing me to the fracture-less rotation? :x

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

Mind directing me to the fracture-less rotation? :x

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Just the same rotation, just without Fracture...

Or just move Fracture to the very last ability before re-applying Heavy Thrust. I do this a lot on bosses where I might have to do some positionals twice due to boss turning or moving.

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Originally Posted by LordMaitreya

So what foods are my Dragoon brothers using?

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Black Truffle Risotto is the best food you can get, but the difference in price for the extra stats over Buttons in a Blanket isn't exactly worth it unless you are into min/maxing to the extremes.

Buttons in a Blanket is the best food for almost all dragoons, but it is dependent on your gear level. Although the Black Truffle Risotto has a higher max stat, the actual % it gives you is less. So in order for the Risotto to be better you need a higher base value of the stat that will allow you to take advantage of the max. You need to do the math on your stats to determine which food will be best. At current gear levels the answer for most is likely Buttons in a Blanket.

Quick question,

Do you guys always pop up BfB whenever it's available? the drawback seems hurt alot when I tried it with my Titan fight recently.

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Any of you experienced the second CT in the rotation not taking its DoT effect?

If you know a burst/burn phase is coming up soon, like Titan Heart phase, then go out of your way when you feel it coming up to save it for that. Otherwise, general school of thought is to use your offensive cooldowns asap if it's a long fight. The benefit of trying to stack them is not better than the amount of time you'd lose not using them asap over the course of a fight. But yes, as said earlier, save them for burn phases.

If your dots aren't reapplying itself, that means you are clipping the dots, and your initial application is stronger than your reapplication, in which case the game doesn't overwrite the older one which is why it says, "... has no effect." E.G. if you had BfB on while you applied your first CT, if you CT again but don't have BfB on, it won't apply to the target because it's a weaker version.

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Originally Posted by Bossmoney

If you know a burst/burn phase is coming up soon, like Titan Heart phase, then go out of your way when you feel it coming up to save it for that. Otherwise, general school of thought is to use your offensive cooldowns asap if it's a long fight. The benefit of trying to stack them is not better than the amount of time you'd lose not using them asap over the course of a fight. But yes, as said earlier, save them for burn phases.

If your dots aren't reapplying itself, that means you are clipping the dots, and your initial application is stronger than your reapplication, in which case the game doesn't overwrite the older one which is why it says, "... has no effect." E.G. if you had BfB on while you applied your first CT, if you CT again but don't have BfB on, it won't apply to the target because it's a weaker version.

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Thanks alot on this! Really learned something new. http://i.imgur.com/81pySWl.gif

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

Quick question,

Do you guys always pop up BfB whenever it's available? the drawback seems hurt alot when I tried it with my Titan fight recently.

PS:
Any of you experienced the second CT in the rotation not taking its DoT effect?

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Alternatively time your BfB use - use it when he does landslide/bomb/weigh phase but don't use it when you know tumult is going to be within the 20s of BfB.

Or when you are in BfB and you got hit by weigh and tumult is coming but you aren't topped back to full, quickly turn it off by right clicking on the BfB status icon on top.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Alternatively time your BfB use - use it when he does landslide/bomb/weigh phase but don't use it when you know tumult is going to be within the 20s of BfB.

Or when you are in BfB and you got hit by weigh and tumult is coming but you aren't topped back to full, quickly turn it off by right clicking on the BfB status icon on top.

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Never thought of manually deactivating it. Geez, silly me.

In any case, I passed it without using BfB though I might be a deadweight during that run due to not using BfB. LOL!

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Do you guys always pop up BfB whenever it's available? the drawback seems hurt alot when I tried it with my Titan fight recently.

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Always usin it whenever its up, but on Titan it truelly depend of you know, the number of dpsers still alive.

Also USE it when bombs are up, save backflip jump and spine shatter dive so you can maybe lose like ~2 seconds maximum at dpsing on a drop of bombs where you can't dps at all, by dpsin all the time until well, you know, its gonna explode. backflip - spineshatter and you re good to go again.

Pretty much atomised everyone lately on Titan :p For the tumult thing ... just save bloodbath for phase 5, possible second wind, you re golden with these while bfb is on

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Originally Posted by Maxin_Rudy

i did some testing, and looks like life surge will make Dragonfire Dive crits on every target it hits, so for AoE damage you can use this to bump your dps

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This is false. It will seems to always crit on the enemy targeted but subsequent enemies it hits can not crit, you might have just had some lucky RNG :)

I'm not sure if I'm doing it right, but in the mobs of WP, do you guys still "try" to do the usual 27 rotation? Or just spam True Thrust combo?

Depend, most of the time its doomspike and dfd with buffs on. when 4 mobs are left just spam RoT until 3 / 2 left and go single target

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

Depend, most of the time its doomspike and dfd with buffs on. when 4 mobs are left just spam RoT until 3 / 2 left and go single target

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^^
Also take a look at the "Go Buffed or Go Home" section of the first page. Has the rotation you need for dungeon mobs. I personally like to finish the chaos thrust on the 3rd mob or the 2nd just so I have a dot ticking away while focusing on the 1. A lot of DF tanks imo don't like to do AoE pulls. But if you're talking speed runs take a look at the AoE section of the first page as well.

Hi,

What would be the most optimum rotation with buffs and off gcd skills for a very short duration fight? Specifically the turn5 phase where you've to burst down the conflagration before it explodes

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Originally Posted by kaethe

Hi,

What would be the most optimum rotation with buffs and off gcd skills for a very short duration fight? Specifically the turn5 phase where you've to burst down the conflagration before it explodes

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Generally you'll only get 4-5 GCDs on a conflag. Best dps is Disembowel->True -> Vorpal -> Full. Just prep the Disembowel with an ID on Twintania as the conflag goes out, and make sure HT has been recently refreshed prior to the conflag cast. oGCD abilities will depend on whether it's a burn conflag or not. You don't need any, other than leg sweep and a jump if you want, on regular conflags, and blow half your cooldowns on the burn conflags. Feel free to Phlebotomize a regular conflag after Disembowel if two dps end up inside.

Bottom line: Jump.

Who would have thought the (multple!) jump techniques would've added absolutely NOTHING to the game in terms of group STRATEGY. Dodging attacks, magic, and avoiding unnecessary damage is EXACTLY what a DPS needs in order to avoid taking damage. It's got to be about more than dealing damage. Jump is the primary tool a Dragoon uses to avoid take hits. But there is just not enough... It's just not good in this game.
The cooldowns are terrible on it. I just had to say this one thing... I'm totally disappointed with the development choices in this one area, in particular. There are others, in the context of unavoidable enemy spells and techniques, but I won't even go there (right now).

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Originally Posted by Ayvar

Easy, I forgot to mention this at the time, but does this mean you'd like the rotation credited to you in the guide to be changed?

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Not really; what you include in your guide is up to you. The H IDC P TTT H TTT / P IDC H TTT P TTT rotation is still higher DPS, so if you're listing the higher DPS rotations, then leave that, IMO.

However, HP IDC TTT / HP IDF TTT is a rather simpler rotation with the second highest PPS and I would recommend it for someone who's not trying hard for the last 1% on the parse.

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

With that said, however, we'd like to touch on a few of the changes we have planned, and to start off I'll talk about dragoon. We'll be reducing the cooldown timer of Power Surge by 30 seconds and increasing the damage of their standard three action combo. Also, Jump will be adjusted so that execution is quicker, animation lock is reduced, and landing point is changed. Overall DPS will be increased by approximately 10%, so burst damage will greatly increase.

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As nice as these changes sound, i fear that it may make the difference between a well played dragoon and the average 1-2-3 spammer smaller. Thoughts?

With the buffed TTT in mind, i also have a feeling fracture might become obsolete in all rotations.

I welcome any buff to dragoon, however powersurge change is a weird one because of the timing of jump/spineshatter dive. I used to use power surge on every other jump meaning that there was a wait of an extra 10 seconds on the cool down of using every other jump.

I guess now we could powersurge every 3rd jump and everytime spineshatter dive is up wait an extra 30 seconds so that will be power surged?
So it could go:

PS > J > J > PS > SSD > J > PS > J > J > PS > SSD > J then keep repeating from the beginning.

This would keep jump on its 40s cooldown and spineshatter dive would only be used when it is power surged, but the 30sec wait on SSD is not good. This is not that optimal, over 5 minutes the potency is about 2665 (including the last PS SSD).

Simply waiting 20 seconds on the power surge timer so that it is ready for every other jump like before and using SSD on cooldown has slightly more potency over 5 minutes @ 2680.

So they may aswell have just reduced the timer by 10 seconds lol unless anyone can think of a better way to use it ??

Based on a cursory review, you are correct: if you're timing it with only Jumps, or with Jumps + SSD on cooldown, then they may have well just reduce it by 10s, not 30s.

The only time this changes is if you hold SSD for whatever mechanics reasons, or hold Jumps for mechanics. In these cases, the shorter PS cooldown will result in "less DPS loss" from delaying the Jumps.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

As nice as these changes sound, i fear that it may make the difference between a well played dragoon and the average 1-2-3 spammer smaller. Thoughts?

With the buffed TTT in mind, i also have a feeling fracture might become obsolete in all rotations.

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About fracture I have no idea, but trust me - when I get lazy and only spam 1-2-3 I never get beyond 450 damage or so, whereas when I'm fully buffed and I debuff the enemy I can end up dealing 1k damage. And that's only one hit, not mentioning continuous skills and overall DPS. There is still a massive gap between bad dragoons and good dragoons.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

As nice as these changes sound, i fear that it may make the difference between a well played dragoon and the average 1-2-3 spammer smaller. Thoughts?

With the buffed TTT in mind, i also have a feeling fracture might become obsolete in all rotations.

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Buffing TTT will buff a DRG who's using their full rotation more, IMO. When RNG's on my side, my FT can go over 1100 (normally its between about 1030 and 1100). I can see it going up to or over 1300 after 2.1 hits, maybe even over 1400 if the buff to FT is strong enough, and if we get ARC as cross-class...I'm not even sure how high FT can go with RS+BFB+Dis+HT+LS or Jump with PS and the buffs (I could do the math but I'm lazy)

Translate "H IDC P TTT H TTT / P IDC H TTT P TTT " for me like I am one of your french girls.

I can figure out IDC, TTT, P, and H... but what is the /? at first I thought it was a repeat designator, now I just want more coffee.

Is that supposed to mean fracture?

The / just indicates "next line" as a logical shift in the rotation without burning oodles of vertical space ... more relevant for reddit or listing like 5 different rotattions, but I did it out of habit.

E.g.:

H IDC P TTT H TTT
P IDC H TTT P TTT


Edit: If DRGs picked up RS, FTs would probably cap out around 1350. Up to 1500 with the purported TTT buffs. Up to ?? 1600 ?? with an i95 weap.