Revelations from SHADOWBRINGERS

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Originally Posted by Edax

But like, is vanishing like a puff of smoke one of his powers? Can Gaius or Estinien do that? In all future engagement, can Zenos just instantly teleport away before he can ever be in any danger?

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From the fact that he now has the Ascian eyes, assume he has all Ascian powers. Which unfortunately makes him more of a nuisance than before. Hopefully he'll be more...interesting, in the future.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

From the fact that he now has the Ascian eyes, assume he has all Ascian powers. Which unfortunately makes him more of a nuisance than before. Hopefully he'll be more...interesting, in the future.

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Those are Resonant eyes, unless you're referring to something else. We saw him using it right back in Stormblood before he took over Shinryu, and Fordola had it too.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Those are Resonant eyes, unless you're referring to something else. We saw him using it right back in Stormblood before he took over Shinryu, and Fordola had it too.

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Yeah, does the Artificial Echo give you the ability to teleport out of combat? Is that a thing now?

If we've learned anything from Naruto it's that having funky eyes gives you new powers as the plot demands.

What started out as "an eye that creates a hypnotic technique allowing to copy moves" evolved into "creates unquenchable flames, impenetrable force field giant suits of armor, allows one to phase into another dimension, and can rewind time"

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Originally Posted by Edax

Yeah, does the Artificial Echo give you the ability to teleport out of combat? Is that a thing now?

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I think one of the characters notes that Zenos is basically an Ascian, now. He's achieved command of the Echo (Resonance, in his case) that no previous mortal has (at least, not without Ascian assistance) - but that Elidibus himself once said (to Minfillia) we'd be capable of if only we understood its true potential.

At least, that's the angle I think the writers are gunning for. Zenos is now essentially a self-ascended Ascian, and can do anything an Ascian can do, including bamf his mortal shell around as he pleases.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I think one of the characters notes that Zenos is basically an Ascian, now. He's achieved command of the Echo (Resonance, in his case) that no previous mortal has (at least, not without Ascian assistance) - but that Elidibus himself once said (to Minfillia) we'd be capable of if only we understood its true potential.

At least, that's the angle I think the writers are gunning for. Zenos is now essentially a self-ascended Ascian, and can do anything an Ascian can do, including bamf his mortal shell around as he pleases.

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But even Ascians can't disengage immediately out of combat, hence why Lahabrea and Igeyorhm were killed in Heavensward and Nabriales in AAR. I mean, why not poof away immediately the moment they begin losing the combat? Even Emet was overwhelmed at one point and chose to fight on instead of disengage, which begs the question why did he stand and fight when he didn't physically need to stick around there at all?

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Originally Posted by Edax

But even Ascians can't disengage immediately out of combat, hence why Lahabrea and Igeyorhm were killed in Heavensward and Nabriales in AAR. I mean, why not poof away immediately the moment they begin losing the combat? Even Emet was overwhelmed at one point and chose to fight on instead of disengage, which begs the question why did he stand and fight when he didn't physically need to stick around there at all?

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Pride and arrogance, something of a staple of the Ascians, Zenos just doesn't care about anything but us, if he finds the battle boring he either kills or leaves.

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Originally Posted by Edax

But even Ascians can't disengage immediately out of combat, hence why Lahabrea and Igeyorhm were killed in Heavensward and Nabriales in AAR. I mean, why not poof away immediately the moment they begin losing the combat? Even Emet was overwhelmed at one point and chose to fight on instead of disengage, which begs the question why did he stand and fight when he didn't physically need to stick around there at all?

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Ascians are a long living remnant of their old world, there's a certain point where flight isn't gonna work and they will eventually put their foot down in an all or nothing since to them, it's also about the survival of their species (as a whole - since they see the current state as broken pieces) and at this point and mentioned by Lahabrea that they feel that the new existence is warping beyond recognition.

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Ascians are a long living remnant of their old world, there's a certain point where flight isn't gonna work and they will eventually put their foot down in an all or nothing since to them, it's also about the survival of their species (as a whole - since they see the current state as broken pieces) and at this point and mentioned by Lahabrea that they feel that the new existence is warping beyond recognition.

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At no instance I can think of that any of the confrontations with the Ascians required them risking their entire species and their plan for a fight to the death. If Emet-Selch had bugged out of the First without ever confronting the Warrior of Darkness towards the end, his plan would have succeeded and a new Sin Eater would be finishing off the First. Emet putting his foot down jeopardized the survival of his species.

Considering the 'soul' is aether, I'm on the side of Black Rose being able to kill body hoppers. Since what they're doing is moving their aether to another body. If the aether coagulates then they can't move it, meaning their soul is stuck in a dead body.

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Originally Posted by Edax

At no instance I can think of that any of the confrontations with the Ascians required them risking their entire species and their plan for a fight to the death. If Emet-Selch had bugged out of the First without ever confronting the Warrior of Darkness towards the end, his plan would have succeeded and a new Sin Eater would be finishing off the First. Emet putting his foot down jeopardized the survival of his species.

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Fight or flight isn't about logic at that point, it's a instinctual response to danger. Even Emet was considered the most emotional of them all and was in a depression sleep for years. He wasn't exactly at the top of his game even if he was pretty damn good at it years ago.

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Originally Posted by Edax

At no instance I can think of that any of the confrontations with the Ascians required them risking their entire species and their plan for a fight to the death. If Emet-Selch had bugged out of the First without ever confronting the Warrior of Darkness towards the end, his plan would have succeeded and a new Sin Eater would be finishing off the First. Emet putting his foot down jeopardized the survival of his species.

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If he had fled, then we may have tried to follow and if we went to the Source while about to turn into the most powerful Sin Eater, oopsie may have just doomed the Source to a imbalance of Light that couldn't be corrected dooming their entire plans permanently. Emet needed us to remain on the First at all costs or the 1st wouldn't be ready to be rejoined via Light anymore, and with us having free reign to teleport between them any future plan they try to do could be interrupted by us. Emet made a stand because he had to for the rejoining to take place, his decision to just let us kill the Lightwardens, was the decision that doomed him down the path of needing to fight us, had he fought us then and there at the Crysterium we would have died.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

If he had fled, then we may have tried to follow and if we went to the Source while about to turn into the most powerful Sin Eater, oopsie may have just doomed the Source to a imbalance of Light that couldn't be corrected dooming their entire plans permanently. Emet needed us to remain on the First at all costs or the 1st wouldn't be ready to be rejoined via Light anymore, and with us having free reign to teleport between them any future plan they try to do could be interrupted by us. Emet made a stand because he had to for the rejoining to take place, his decision to just let us kill the Lightwardens, was the decision that doomed him down the path of needing to fight us, had he fought us then and there at the Crysterium we would have died.

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We can only go from the First and the Source. He can go to any remaining world he pleases which puts him out of our reach. While the Warrior of Darkness can go to the Source and jeopardize the world, I'm not sure the Scions or WoD would ever willingly make that choice.

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Originally Posted by Edax

We can only go from the First and the Source. He can go to any remaining world he pleases which puts him out of our reach. While the Warrior of Darkness can go to the Source and jeopardize the world, I'm not sure the Scions or WoD would ever willingly make that choice.

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I don't think Emet knows the WoL well enough to trust them not to do something as foolish as to go to the Source while brimming with Sin Eater energy.

Plus, I didn't get the feeling that at any point during the fight with Emet did he seriously consider the possibility that we could actually beat him, on his (reconstructed) home turf, and at the peak of his power. At least, up until Ardbert did his merger and we hit Emet with the Axe of Light. Exemplar among mortals we might be - and seven (eight) times rejoined, at that - but we're still just a mortal. Again, Ascian overconfidence.

He had another reason to stick around on the First, as well: G'raha Tia. It's not clear he had any method for taking G'raha with him if he left (all the instances we've seen in which an Ascian transports someone between worlds, it's been voluntary on the part of the one being transported), and he wanted to plumb his mind for his secrets of time travel.

So, he had several reasons to stay on the First, and considered the risks of doing so to be quite low.

The question remains as to why he didn't bamf on out of there when it was CLEAR he was overmatched - say, the moment when we were actively charging him with the Axe of Light. At that point, there's any number of handwaves available: he was too drained from the fight, or he was reeling in shock from the glimpse of the Ancient within us, or the bamf process requires some kind of preparation, or merely the presence of so much concentrated Light power was restricting the use of his Darkness power.

In short, given what we know of Ascians, of Emet, and of the situation at hand, it's not at all surprising that he would have gone for the two in the bush (G'raha's knowledge AND WoL-turned-Sin-Eater) rather than the one in the hand, even given the (in his mind ridiculously slim) chance of disaster. When disaster struck anyway, there's any number of explanations as to why it was too late to do anything about it.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I don't think Emet knows the WoL well enough to trust them not to do something as foolish as to go to the Source while brimming with Sin Eater energy.

Plus, I didn't get the feeling that at any point during the fight with Emet did he seriously consider the possibility that we could actually beat him, on his (reconstructed) home turf, and at the peak of his power. At least, up until Ardbert did his merger and we hit Emet with the Axe of Light. Exemplar among mortals we might be - and seven (eight) times rejoined, at that - but we're still just a mortal. Again, Ascian overconfidence.


The question remains as to why he didn't bamf on out of there when it was CLEAR he was overmatched - say, the moment when we were actively charging him with the Axe of Light. At that point, there's any number of handwaves available: he was too drained from the fight, or he was reeling in shock from the glimpse of the Ancient within us, or the bamf process requires some kind of preparation, or merely the presence of so much concentrated Light power was restricting the use of his Darkness power.

In short, given what we know of Ascians, of Emet, and of the situation at hand, it's not at all surprising that he would have gone for the two in the bush (G'raha's knowledge AND WoL-turned-Sin-Eater) rather than the one in the hand, even given the (in his mind ridiculously slim) chance of disaster. When disaster struck anyway, there's any number of explanations as to why it was too late to do anything about it.

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The problem with this theory is that the WoL has already defeated several Ascians, including Emet's fellow veteran of the Sundering: Lahabrea. Mortal the Warrior of Darkness may be, they've already racked up an Ascian kill count and fellow mortal Gaius racked an even larger count. There's little reason to think Emet wouldn't truly regard the Warrior of Darkness as an extreme threat. Perhaps Emet made it personal because they were friends in a different life but tactically there's little reason for Emet to personally confront an Ascian slayer while also assuming their no threat. Hades is all about remembering the dead right? Lahabrea's death should constantly be in his mind.

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Originally Posted by Edax

The problem with this theory is that the WoL has already defeated several Ascians, including Emet's fellow veteran of the Sundering: Lahabrea. Mortal the Warrior of Darkness may be, they've already racked up an Ascian kill count and fellow mortal Gaius racked an even larger count. There's little reason to think Emet wouldn't truly regard the Warrior of Darkness as an extreme threat. Perhaps Emet made it personal because they were friends in a different life but tactically there's little reason for Emet to personally confront an Ascian slayer while also assuming their no threat. Hades is all about remembering the dead right? Lahabrea's death should constantly be in his mind.

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If Auracite wasn't easily accessible then he may have banked on having home field advantage since he manipulated the 1st. That said, at some point again depression and already seeing how tired he was through his walk all chalks up to him just not being at the top of his game.

But I suppose that's gonna be a problem with some narratives is that they won't be perfect and especially if they're kinda winging it to fit as it goes in a lot of aspects. It's then a contest on who wants to fit the pieces of the narrative to what should be accepted. (Look how people interpreted Thordan's scene). I mean it's the same reason that for story purposes for this MMO to drive us, Hydaelyn decides of all the eons and reincarnations as the WoL to shield us from Ultima at that point in time vs the other times calamities have struck. Why we power creep like any other tournament anime out there....with various enemies and foes. It drives the game, and as enjoyable as it is, it's not perfect.

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Originally Posted by Edax

The problem with this theory is that the WoL has already defeated several Ascians, including Emet's fellow veteran of the Sundering: Lahabrea. Mortal the Warrior of Darkness may be, they've already racked up an Ascian kill count and fellow mortal Gaius racked an even larger count. There's little reason to think Emet wouldn't truly regard the Warrior of Darkness as an extreme threat. Perhaps Emet made it personal because they were friends in a different life but tactically there's little reason for Emet to personally confront an Ascian slayer while also assuming their no threat. Hades is all about remembering the dead right? Lahabrea's death should constantly be in his mind.

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Technically Lahabrea was defeated by Thordan. Even just before that, Lahabrea was taunting us for "wasting" our White Auracite on Igeyorhm.

And given Thordan's planning and outmaneuvering of Lahabrea (not that it was a high bar to clear), it's almost certain that even without our intervention, Thordan would have killed Lahabrea anyway.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

Technically Lahabrea was defeated by Thordan. Even just before that, Lahabrea was taunting us for "wasting" our White Auracite on Igeyorhm.

And given Thordan's planning and outmaneuvering of Lahabrea (not that it was a high bar to clear), it's almost certain that even without our intervention, Thordan would have killed Lahabrea anyway.

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No technically Lahabrea was defeated by the Warrior of Light by thrashing the Ascian Prime. Thordan merely killed Lahabrea while he was on his knees, effectively an execution and not a battle. Almost every Ascian we've seen killed required some kind of battle that thwarted their strength. The fact that the Warrior of Light was already outmatching Ascians in raw power should not have gone unnoticed by Emet.

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Originally Posted by Edax

No technically Lahabrea was defeated by the Warrior of Light by thrashing the Ascian Prime. Thordan merely killed Lahabrea while he was on his knees, effectively an execution and not a battle. Almost every Ascian we've seen killed required some kind of battle that thwarted their strength. The fact that the Warrior of Light was already outmatching Ascians in raw power should not have gone unnoticed by Emet.

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Umm wasn't Emet in depression sleep at that time and later Elidibus basically pushed him out of it?

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Originally Posted by QT_Melon

Umm wasn't Emet in depression sleep at that time and later Elidibus basically pushed him out of it?

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So no one told him that Lahabrea was dead?

He certainly seems to have known it by the time he show's up before Varis. He talks about "Lahabrea's crowning act of idiocy".

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Originally Posted by Edax

But even Ascians can't disengage immediately out of combat, hence why Lahabrea and Igeyorhm were killed in Heavensward and Nabriales in AAR. I mean, why not poof away immediately the moment they begin losing the combat? Even Emet was overwhelmed at one point and chose to fight on instead of disengage, which begs the question why did he stand and fight when he didn't physically need to stick around there at all?

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While Ascians do disappear in a puff of smoke all the time, I can't recall any of them doing it during or immediately after a proper fight. Presumably chucking a lot of magic around disables that particular power for a while.

I guess Zenos was still able to do it because, well he didn't look like he was putting in a great deal of effort to be honest, refers to Gaius and Estinien as "the most middling of sport" or something like that.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

He certainly seems to have known it by the time he show's up before Varis. He talks about "Lahabrea's crowning act of idiocy".

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Emet definitely knew Lahabrea was dead. He was likely informed by Elidibus, when the latter woke him from his slumber.

How much of the specifics of Lahabrea's death Elidibus knew are unclear, but he likely passed on whatever he could. Lahabrea's "crowning act of idiocy" could simply be managing to die at the hands of a mortal at all, specifics be damned.

Honestly Emet wasnt even asleep that long

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Originally Posted by Edax

So no one told him that Lahabrea was dead?

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My point was less about getting the information later and whether he got real details about the whole incident. It was basically about his state of being

Every argument you're making towards logic, I'm refuting with a person's mental state. The WoL seems to be in better spirits morally and has a support group. What did Emet have at that point? Other than going around in depression sleep, all his movements later in the game - depression sleep and slouching throughout the Shadowbringers storyline.

So no one told him he was dead - ...means he was gonna be incredibly logical at that point?

I mean if you're gonna argue about intellect, you do realize that many suicides and drug overdoses are done by those considered academically inclined. Doctors..those in the medical field for ex -. it's because they have access to said drugs and often depression does tend to attribute to those that have a higher IQ. Example If anything it seems it seems Emet was a rather passionate person as well. Unlike our WoL - Emet went on and lived with knowing what happened, while "we" did not. Ignorance is bliss.


Lahabrea is more of the scientist gone mad trope, Emet is the passionate guy whose fire is running out, and Elidibus is the detached chess player type.

I have to say,
I am only about halfway through it at this point, but this has been an outstanding expansion this one rivals Heavensward.

Honestly when I got to the end of the Stormblood expansion back when, I had no motivation to even play any further into that expansion I just disliked it that much. The Stormblood MSQ just turned me off sooo badly I left the game. While I liked... and was into the Doman portion... I just could not stand the Al Mhigans. Part of that is all on SE... throughout ARR and into Heavensward almost every Al Mhigan you meet is either a total sleezebag, overly emotional zealot, or someone who knifes you in the back the first chance they get.

By the time I finished ARR and Heavensward, I was like... the Empire can KEEP Al Mhigo. Only time I ever wanted to side with the Imperials thoughout an expansion. I think I wanted to puke thinking about how I "liberated" Al Mhigo. I didn't even hang around long enough to see the Raid scene. I thought maybe it was just a bad taste in my mouth of the numerous nerfs and changes handed out at the beginning of SB...

BUT... after coming back for the Shadowbringers campaign and... starting a new character and going through ALL the campaigns in order again from scratch... nope it was Definitely just the MSQ for Stormblood that I couldn't stand.

Shadowbringers though... looks, feels, and plays like a true Final Fantasy adventure. Even down to the smallest things, like the putting the Golem back togather to use the rail system. It just drips of real FF feel, and actually seems to tilt more to the feel of the later Final Fantasy games like FF7. While Stormblood had some of the trappings of old FF games... Shadowbringers actually feeels like one of them.

While I am still not sure I'd put it above Heavensward at this point... It's really close.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...40/unknown.png

Hoping for loads of Amaurot/Ancients lore!

Don't forget the new Chronicle of a new Era storyline being the "Weapon" Storyline that will follow Gaius' search for the Missing weapons he set out to find mentioned at the end of 5.1 Main Scenario.

Ruby Weapon already confirmed the 1st Trial for this side Scenario storyline.

Looks like we're getting more Amaurot lore sooner then later, and a surprising amount of stuff pertaining to Ilsabard as well between the new trial series and the relic weapon quests.

On the subject of the MSQ, the word "anamnesis" refers to the remembrance of things from a supposed previous existence...which makes the potential context for going to Anamnesis Aynder all the more intriguing. Perhaps we'll be getting the truth laid bare sooner then we think...?

So we know what the Trial series will be (RIP my dreams for an Allagan Eureka where the Ultima Weapons are stored... guess that already happened with Eureka, though).

I believe we were also given a hint towards Relics? (think I saw people floating around the term Bozja Weapons at some point? please don't tell me that they're just going to copy and paste the story with Eureka and change the Bozja Incident from one of just pure destruction, to "actually, it was teleported away somewhere!").

Now the only mystery left unanswered in Shadowbringers... Where the heck is the Deep Dungeon... The Dawn of Souls playing nerd inside me still wants to say that it's at Wright and Whisperwind Cove...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Now the only mystery left unanswered in Shadowbringers... Where the heck is the Deep Dungeon... The Dawn of Souls playing nerd inside me still wants to say that it's at Wright and Whisperwind Cove...

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Not going to lie i would love this and the way it could work out is it could be the place where they transformed people into citizens and where they produced moel can have plenty of different type of monsters in a sin eater den and the final boss could be the person who forced the deed (as i doubt someone who knew what they were doing in that sort of place would just stop)

I'm betting the Weapon trial series will be a follow up to that experimental Ultima that Estinien fought. Like that was a prototype to the empire making their own version of Ultima, the Ruby, Emerald, and Diamond Weapons.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Now the only mystery left unanswered in Shadowbringers... Where the heck is the Deep Dungeon... The Dawn of Souls playing nerd inside me still wants to say that it's at Wright and Whisperwind Cove...

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That big hole in the sea near the Ivalice raid lighthouse maybe?

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/m...ighthouse3.jpg

I kind of just want to see what's down there tbh.

I just realized something, and I don't think I'm the first person to speculate this.

We never actually see what happens to Varis' body. No funeral procession or anything.

I'm not saying he's alive, at least not in a traditional sense. But consider that weird Ultima Weapon-like contraption. I expect Varis to be strapped to one of them, most likely the last boss of the Weapon trial series.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

I just realized something, and I don't think I'm the first person to speculate this.

We never actually see what happens to Varis' body. No funeral procession or anything.

I'm not saying he's alive, at least not in a traditional sense. But consider that weird Ultima Weapon-like contraption. I expect Varis to be strapped to one of them, most likely the last boss of the Weapon trial series.

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I follow the principle of not thinking someone dead without seeing a corpse. While it is possible, I don't think the general public would accept the lack of a funeral. The Emperor is almost worshipped there as the parley suggested, and the Cutscene back in ARR suggested that Solus' funeral was kinda a great thing. If they buried an empty casket, however...

Fun thought excursion I have on Varis: Remember how the Legati often follow a theme from the Final Fantasy Main Title corresponding to the number of their legion? (e. g. Nael as Legatus of the VII. Legion -> Meteor, parallels between Zenos from XII. Legion and Vayne from FF XII...)
It was stated that before he became Emperor, he was Legatus of the II. Legion. Final Fantasy II had Emperor Mateus...

The Emperor who was killed only to come back.

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

I follow the principle of not thinking someone dead without seeing a corpse. While it is possible, I don't think the general public would accept the lack of a funeral. The Emperor is almost worshipped there as the parley suggested, and the Cutscene back in ARR suggested that Solus' funeral was kinda a great thing. If they buried an empty casket, however...

Fun thought excursion I have on Varis: Remember how the Legati often follow a theme from the Final Fantasy Main Title corresponding to the number of their legion? (e. g. Nael as Legatus of the VII. Legion -> Meteor, parallels between Zenos from XII. Legion and Vayne from FF XII...)
It was stated that before he became Emperor, he was Legatus of the II. Legion. Final Fantasy II had Emperor Mateus...

The Emperor who was killed only to come back.

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That was a really old theory from 1.0 that has since well and truly been disproven - not only did Zenos (the Legatus of the XIIth Legion) have virtually no connection to Vayne or the Archadian Empire from FFXII, or, anything from FFXII really, the Return to Ivalice raid introduced none other than Gabranth in identical armour to his FFXII version (or at least, a direct Garlean copy of him) as the Legatus for the IVth Legion. So, I think we can well and truly put a well deserved bullet behind the ear of this theory.

EDIT: Okay I guess Zenos did take control of Shinryu (essentually becoming a dragon of sorts) along the lines of how Vayne became the Undying, but even that's a big stretch.

Re: Solus. The original body Emet inhabited as 'Solus' really was buried/intered/cremated or whatever funeral tradition the Empire has, they had just cloned him beforehand, which is the body he was using throughout ShB (this was demonstrated towards the end of the SB patch story when Emet was first introduced - Varis shoots him dead, only for him to instantly show up in a brand new body identical to the one just killed. Gaius also confirms that the Empire has been using Allagan cloning technology at the facilities where Black Rose was being produced and that the cloning capsules were all filled with cloned bodies of "a young Emperor Solus".).

So it's pretty clear that the 'original' Solus is dead and buried, he just had himself cloned, and it is these cloned bodies which Emet has been using ever since (it should also be noted that it's only recently that Emet started 'body-surfing' unlike other Ascians, he outright mentioned that when an Ascian constantly switches bodies it actually drains their power, which incidentally explains why he was so much more powerful than Lahabrea had been despite both being 'unsundered' Ascians - Lahabrea was constantly jumping from host to host, probably for countless millenia, and that it affected him to his detriment (according to Emet anyway).

Emet however seemed to prefer to live in the one host from their birth (or at least from early in their life) through to their natural death and so was able to better preserve his power, which is why as Hades he was so powerful (and how our usual tricks when dealing with them... didn't seem to work). He had only now started moving into his clone bodies after his original 'Solus' body finally died from extreme old age, but still had all that power to burn accordingly, which he did at the Dying Gasp. But I digress...

Concerning Gabranth, I always assumed that they wanted to call the Legatus in Dalmasca Gabranth since it kinda fits with Garlean names and because of the obvious FF XII connection. However, he is of the IV. Legion as you claim, but at that time, Zenos was still around, so the writers couldn't use the XII. for him. Since Gabranth has yet to become relevant, it's not completely out of the question that something about him/his actions will relate to something from FF IV.

Your wall of text was a really interesting read and held quite a lot of information, I almost don't dare to claim that the discussion was about Varis and a lack of his corpse, I only used Solus' funeral as an example for the Emperor funerals being a big thing...

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

.Re: Solus. The original body Emet inhabited as 'Solus' really was buried/intered/cremated or whatever funeral tradition the Empire has, they had just cloned him beforehand, which is the body he was using throughout ShB (this was demonstrated towards the end of the SB patch story when Emet was first introduced - Varis shoots him dead, only for him to instantly show up in a brand new body identical to the one just killed. Gaius also confirms that the Empire has been using Allagan cloning technology at the facilities where Black Rose was being produced and that the cloning capsules were all filled with cloned bodies of "a young Emperor Solus".).

So it's pretty clear that the 'original' Solus is dead and buried, he just had himself cloned, and it is these cloned bodies which Emet has been using ever since (it should also be noted that it's only recently that Emet started 'body-surfing' unlike other Ascians, he outright mentioned that when an Ascian constantly switches bodies it actually drains their power, which incidentally explains why he was so much more powerful than Lahabrea had been despite both being 'unsundered' Ascians - Lahabrea was constantly jumping from host to host, probably for countless millenia, and that it affected him to his detriment (according to Emet anyway).

Emet however seemed to prefer to live in the one host from their birth (or at least from early in their life) through to their natural death and so was able to better preserve his power, which is why as Hades he was so powerful (and how our usual tricks when dealing with them... didn't seem to work). He had only now started moving into his clone bodies after his original 'Solus' body finally died from extreme old age, but still had all that power to burn accordingly, which he did at the Dying Gasp. But I digress...

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This brings up a question that has bothered me for a while, what happened to the real Solus? He had a life before he was "possessed" at around 25 or so, so what became of him?

Did he die, similar to the humans possessed by parasites in the anime Parasyte. Was he alive and Emet-Selch was a "voice" in his head. Did he become like a vegetable, able to experience things but not able to interact because Emet-Selch was the dominant force controlling his body. Imagine being alive and unable to interact with the world, but by the time you were "free" you died.

I mean when Lahabrea possessed Thancred, Thancred didn't "die" so why would Solus? And Emet-Selch kept referring to Solus's body as a seperate entity. Why do that if the body was "yours"? So many unanswered questions.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

I mean when Lahabrea possessed Thancred, Thancred didn't "die" so why would Solus? And Emet-Selch kept referring to Solus's body as a seperate entity. Why do that if the body was "yours"? So many unanswered questions.

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It is an interesting question. Thancred was not that long under his control and he had that crystal around his neck. Did Solus have that too? Or was he more like what Minfilia did to a lot of the other oracles, taking over their body completely when they gave up (thus either killing the soul or absorbing it, just like Ryne did with her at the end).

Its also horrible when one remembers that nobody had a clue that he was not Solus anymore...someone sleeping with him thinking its another man while its Emet using the body. The children thinking of him as their father while its just a body being used by someone that really does not care. (Other than that short feeling of hope) Family believing it to be their member while its just a imposter.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Re: Solus. The original body Emet inhabited as 'Solus' really was buried/intered/cremated or whatever funeral tradition the Empire has, they had just cloned him beforehand, which is the body he was using throughout ShB

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Ascians can't travel shards with bodies, so Emet-Selch was not using a clone on the First.