Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

Cure 2/3 Procs, yeah, but that's the only one i can think of, not this new...AOE heal...thingy. i'm really not sure exactly what's going to happen

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

http://i.imgur.com/kaPuKhn.jpg

Also of note:
Cure potency of AB was increased
Both AST stances now increase potencies by 15%

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and? u know it might change until realease? ^^

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

http://i.imgur.com/kaPuKhn.jpg

Also of note:
Cure potency of AB was increased
Both AST stances now increase potencies by 15%

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So yeah AST entered game being a hybrid that could act as a half assed version of sch/whm. To no being a proposed hybrid that can act as a superior version of sch/whm.

Yup carry on. Just don't be surprised when you get the same reaction.

I see a few people have already agreed with me.

Adding in the whole confession stacks thing is just adding unwanted and unnecessary rng to the lvl 70 ability (Plenary Indulgence) and makes what should be a powerful ability, something that may be completely useless (oops no stacks on anyone = no effect), less useful than it should be (oh I got a stack one someone!), or great but on the wrong person (oh the tank has stacks cause he's the only one needing cure spam, but everyone else who just took a room wide aoe have no stacks so get squat from it). Confession stacks would work a bit better if they had no duration, but currently they last only 30 seconds. It's a shit mechanic IMO and makes Plenary Indulgence a shit skill by association.

WHM players have been asking for utility. Not more ways to replenish HP. WHM already replenishes hp quite well. But you only need so much hp recovery in a dungeon/raid/trial. Once you meet that hp recovery threshold, everyone starts looking at what else you bring to the table, and when you bring little to nothing, you're no longer desired at the table. Taking Stoneskin away from WHM and then giving it back as a slightly stronger but on a cooldown version (Divine Benison) was just salt to the wound.

WHM needed an aoe buff to the group. Something that improves overall group performance in some way (like say an aoe Presence of Mind cooldown to make everyone faster). Unfortunately SE decided to double down on "moar healz!" while stripping a chunk of skills from WHM to put into shared role actions. Even Divine Seal (30% stronger heals for 15 sec on a 60 sec cooldown), something uniquely WHM, got stripped away and a nerfed version (20% stronger heals for 20 sec on a 90 sec cooldown) added to shared role skills.

Without group/raid utility, WHM brings less overall value to a group than SCH or AST.

How's the recast on it

Total disaster, adding my name to this thread to express my displeasure. I'll be taking AST into SB and doing some RDM on the side. For once I don't even have much to say about it: WHM in its current previewed form is the exact opposite of exciting and I don't want to play it any more.

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Originally Posted by Miles_Maelstrom

So yeah AST entered game being a hybrid that could act as a half assed version of sch/whm. To no being a proposed hybrid that can act as a superior version of sch/whm.

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While AST shields are stronger (and have been even before these buffs), SCH's utility will ensure it still has a place. Namely it gets a sort of Battle Litany buff, which should lock it in pretty safely. On the other hand, if you're in a "need to find a sub on short notice" kind of situation or in less serious content, AST shields will definitely get the job done and then some.

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Originally Posted by javid

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Stop. You are embarrasing yourself. I'm going to explain it to you how it works because you haven't understood anything at all.

Imagine a 30 yard medica.
Imagine that medica only healed targets that had at least 1 Confession Stack

That's how it works the ability. I've nothing else to discuss. Check on other sources, it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Yup carry on. Just don't be surprised when you get the same reaction.

I see a few people have already agreed with me.

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That's nice, dear.

I had a look through the abilities and well..I guess WHM goes to the pure healer side of things nicely, but I really am not keen on the RNG side of things, nor do we have any utility for the rest of the group barring a long CD rescue ability.

I can see WHM getting tweaked fast.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

This thread is totally unnecessary seeing as how there are already plenty of WHM tear threads. Beg for attention much?

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You're the one being hostile here for no reason. Everyone needs to be outraged about the WHM changes and we won't shut up until Yoshi P hears it.

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Originally Posted by Verdan

I don't understand why they took away stoneskin. At least then we'd still have MORE shielding ability rather than less with this upcoming patch. One that's clunky but always available(and unique now), and one that's fast but on a cooldown.

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It's not fast, if you don't have at least 1 lily you can't use it. Check on the videos how it is greyout when WHM has 0 lilies

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

Unfortunately SE decided to double down on "moar healz!"

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Even that is debatable. AST's benefic I/II are now more potent than cure I/II. And now AST has their new mega heal bomb 900 potency. The can draw and hold lady for another extra heal. If whm still holds the highest HPS throughput it's not by much anymore.

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

and whats the recast time on that spells? :P

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Even if you ignore Collective Unconscious, Asphelios and helios are stronger than medica ii and medica.

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Originally Posted by Skyrior

You're the one being hostile here for no reason. Everyone needs to be outraged about the WHM changes and we won't shut up until Yoshi P hears it.

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Hostile. No. Annoyed by 20 different threads, absolutely.

Don't get me wrong, I thought your post was funny and maybe accurate. I want to see what people have to say about the WHM changes. But that would be better and easier if it was just posted in an existing WHM thread, and would make it easier to read all the other things non-WHM.

But yeah, do whatever you want. I can't stop you.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

How's the recast on it

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60s. Assize is 90.

To clarify on Plenary Indulgence, the way I see it:

It's a self cast ability, not targetable thus the 0 range, think assize/indom or such but with a significantly larger radius (30 yards).

I'm pretty confident that 0 confession stacks = 0 healing. If that wasn't the case I suspect the CD would be a lot longer than 15 seconds.

It isn't intended to be another aoe heal, rather the radius is there to allow it to be used on multiple targets, e.g. in FaustZ, you'll likely be casting a fair amount of cures across both tanks, in this situation you'll likely be able to use Plenary almost on cooldown either to play it safe or buy yourself a few more DPS GCDs.

In a single tank situation, it's simply going to be a tank specific instant free heal on a short cooldown assuming the incoming damage is sufficient to actually proc it. In high sustained phases of tank healing it'll practically be a resource free lustrate on a 15 second CD (rng allowing), in periods where the tank isn't taking much damage it's likely to see little use, Cure2+Tetra will still be the go to burst for dungeons and such.

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Originally Posted by Iepuras

As someone that has healed in many MMOs, and played WHM since ARR, I can say that these changes are hurting much more than what you think they are. Go play the class. Maybe then you'll get it.

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And yet I've played Conj since 1.0's closed beta, WHM since 2.0's closed Beta and my healing experience in mmos goes back approaching 20 years (Probably not far off that if you consider Anatomy in UO as healing ;) ). I'm genuinely looking forward to these changes as I really do hope we actually get some raid content that warrants this kind of HPS potential.

The last point is a big piece of the puzzle though =(

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

60s. Assize is 90.

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Assize is now 60 seconds (And reducible with crits and the lilly mechanic)

Roll on Omega, I can't wait <3

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Hostile. No. Annoyed by 20 different threads, absolutely.

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I see you deleted your previous comment to make yourself look better, lol.

All you're doing is being unnecessarily rude and continually bumping my thread.

Wow, the vitriol in here is totally unnecessary. If you don't like a thread, just move on ._.;

I get that you might be annoyed with multiple threads popping up on the same subject but it's no reason to be so hostile D:
Go look at cat pictures, or hell, the new stormblood vids! :O

@OP - I feel you; whm is my main class so I feel a little irked by the changes, but I will try to make do (I always do! haha). I was never really a fan of RNG, especially when such a major part of your role hinges on it. That being said, Thin Air is going to be great yet I hope I'm not stuck in situations where I have to really rely on it... because that'd be baaaad haha.

I actually laughed.

Utility? you're out of here.

It also pressed a few peoples buttons, that's what I like to see.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Assize is now 60 seconds (And reducible with crits and the lilly mechanic)

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RNG based and unreliably, because Asylum and Tetra will consume your lilies. Even then a CD reduction is not amazing for Assize, it's not a skill to use on CD if the content requires healing. If I have planned to use Assize during X phase/mechanic, getting Assize 10 seconds earlier makes no difference, it's worthless. Of course it will be half decent for DPS in 100% farm/easy content.

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

Even that is debatable. AST's benefic I/II are now more potent than cure I/II. And now AST has their new mega heal bomb 900 potency. The can draw and hold lady for another extra heal. If whm still holds the highest HPS throughput it's not by much anymore.

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Yea I just don't get the thought process that went into WHM for Stormblood or how SE expects WHM to be as competitive and desirable for group composition. WHM, as it currently stands in 4.0, is basically the Paladin or Monk of SB.

Here's how I'd fix it:

- Allow Stone IV to add Lillies.
- Asylum Assize Tetra etc. no longer remove lillies.
- Remove the reduced recast time thing. It's just RNG nonsense.
- Remove the whole confession mess. It's hilariously awful.
- Divine Benison scales with how many lillies you have. (15/20/25%)
- Replace Plenary Indulgence with an AoE version of SCH's Excogitation. (300 potency + 100 per lily)

It would still probably be weaker than the other healers in terms of raiding but at least it might actually be the best pure healer.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

More noise = more likely to be heard. Why so bitter?

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risk to get ignored if overdone

+1 for the picture
-1 because it needed an own thread

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Originally Posted by javid

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That's the thing, what i've said is how it works the skill. People is complaining about WHM because of that. THE SKILL IS GARBAGE. That's why people complains.

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Originally Posted by Nix

snip snip

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I admire your attitude! I don't know if I'll be going near WHM in its current 4.0 state tbh. I do like Thin Air, it'll be boss for some DPS burst, but there's something so wrong about WHM healing being dependent on procs. It's almost like we're being forced into a rotation (Cure II > Cure II > Cure II) to be able make full use of our kit, which is effectively the opposite of optimal healing.

Sebazy covered it pretty comprehensively. A 400-600 potency AoE oGCD ability with a recast of 15 seconds doesn't sound ridiculous to you, given Indom and Assize's cooldowns?

You don't cast it on anybody, it's a PBAoE like Assize. That's why it has a range of 0y with a 30y radius. It's centered around you. Those with stacks get healed. Those without get none.

Comparison: http://i.imgur.com/BYb0qmx.png v http://i.imgur.com/PW2WhiC.png

When White mages say they want raid utility, what is it specifically that you want? Can you give examples? If it's just to copy what sch/ast already does that's not going to work. They can't make all the healers exactly the same.
Can someone give some spell/skills ideas to see if you can come up with something better? Maybe you can but please provide ideas

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

When White mages say they want raid utility, what is it specifically that you want? Can you give examples? If it's just to copy what sch/ast already does that's not going to work. They can't make all the healers exactly the same.
Can someone give some spell/skills ideas to see if you can come up with something better? Maybe you can but please provide ideas

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Reflect.

Reflects X% of the damage dealt to a party member to the enemy.

Boom I already designed a better ability than the new ones we are going to get.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

When White mages say they want raid utility, what is it specifically that you want? Can you give examples? If it's just to copy what sch/ast already does that's not going to work. They can't make all the healers exactly the same.
Can someone give some spell/skills ideas to see if you can come up with something better? Maybe you can but please provide ideas

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To keep it short, damage buffs and crit rate buffs would be the best bet, haste perhaps a bit behind those. "Oh but I said you can't copy what AST and SCH does!" Well AST copied SCH there first so... yes you can. (And the DPS jobs have been doing it to each other for a while.) And this is why SCH will keep its place even with AST's 300%+stancebuff shields.

There's been many many suggestions, including adding a buff effect to regen or cure casts. SE just... even if they want to keep WHM a pure healer, making its heals weaker (yet more expensive) than AST is just baffling.

and now it's bled over to NN as i'm trying to explain the changes...yeah, WHM...is already considered a joke...it's only going to get worse

V: If I had a daughter that was a WHM, they'd be grounded to their room until they turned into an Astro or Scholar

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Originally Posted by IttyBitty

Sebazy covered it pretty comprehensively. A 400-600 potency AoE oGCD ability with a recast of 15 seconds doesn't sound ridiculous to you, given Indom and Assize's cooldowns?

You don't cast it on anybody, it's a PBAoE like Assize. That's why it has a range of 0.

Comparison: http://imgur.com/a/luGII Assize vs http://imgur.com/a/Jyzch PI

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Imagine a 30 yard medica.
Imagine that medica only healed targets that had at least 1 Confession Stack

That's how it works the ability. It's not an AoE heal. It can be, but most of the time it won't be.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

Reflect.

Reflects X% of the damage dealt to a party member to the enemy.

Boom I already designed a better ability than the new ones we are going to get.

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I actually wanted reflect for whm until I thought of the balance nightmare that brings. All of a sudden bosses are killing themselves very fast if they dare aoe the party.

Nidhogg: I'm going to aoe you!!!!!!!!! *nidhogg dies*


Sorry Alpha...it's not as easy as it seems

I think the new whm changes are Amazing!

I'm glad with the changes for White Mage and those reduced CD.
Gonna almost spam some assize ! High healing and dps.

All I need to know now is how all of this will work in battle.
I mean, the only problem i see is that lilies forces us to cast cure and cure ii which is not something we were doing that much with all the regens.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

To keep it short, damage buffs and crit rate buffs would be the best bet, haste perhaps a bit behind those. "Oh but I said you can't copy what AST and SCH does!" Well AST copied SCH there first so... yes you can. (And the DPS jobs have been doing it to each other for a while.) And this is why SCH will keep its place even with AST's 300%+stancebuff shields.

There's been many many suggestions, including adding a buff effect to regen or cure casts. SE just... even if they want to keep WHM a pure healer, making its heals weaker (yet more expensive) than AST is just baffling.

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I'm sorry but you can't make all the healers the same.
You just can't, it would end up to not having a choice anymore.

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Originally Posted by Vanitas

I think the new whm changes are Amazing!

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Your CNJ is level 15.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

Imagine a 30 yard medica.
Imagine that medica only healed targets that had at least 1 Confession Stack

That's how it works the ability. It's not an AoE heal. It can be, but most of the time it won't be.

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Precisely. You and Sebazy have it correct, given what the tooltip is showing :)