SP nerfed. We were lied to.

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in the OP I explain my experience with every way of SP gain

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And a few posts later you admit that you didn't even know about leve linking / abandoning...
Fail. ^^/

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Originally Posted by AarosLunos

Hey you just derped. There aren't 6 pages of recent negative threads. I would say 2/3rds of the threads are positive which is a trend reversal.

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lol are you blind? Don't make me make a list.

The thing I've found funny ever since the patch went live was that people are griping about the SP they CAN'T get anymore. Like they feel that getting 100-120k Skill Points in the space of 1-2 hours on a Guildleve run using entirely cancelled and twisting the system to keep old Guildleve's was a righteous and proper way to skill up.

Use the party recruit. Make a REAL party. Devote some time and some effort to the MMO and stop whining about the stuff you can't get.

The game is increasingly slowing down and balancing out, and I for one feel these changes are incredible. I can't burn 1-20 in an hour and I can't burn 49-50 in the same amount of time.


/CHEER YOSHI-P AND HIS TEAM.

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Originally Posted by Shizalanski

This is just crazy. Why add good features then take out the great ones? Leveling is a complete chore now. At this rate i quit again before i even hit 40 and im 33 now. Good job Yoshi, way to stick it to the players who are loyal enough to show support for an already less then stellar game!!!!

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LOL. Leveling is supposed to be a chore, always has been in games and always will be. Just now it is actually more fun because you don't have to be bored out of you mind doing leves over and over and over and instead you can get better SP by doing other things.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

lol are you blind? Don't make me make a list.

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No I'm not. But you're certainly involved in most of the negative threads. You sure have started your share of them too.

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Originally Posted by Kensei

It's outrageous. All those leves that used to give 15k SP when linked now give 2k. But according to Abriael we are all doing it wrong and SP wasn't nerfed at all. :rolleyes:

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The issue with this thought is that we knew leves were getting fixed so the 100k an hour loophole is now closed, which might be considered a nerf but in a world in need of balance this needed to happen.

The statement that leves are not longer the central focus of the game needs to be remembered as players wanting to play the old way did get hit with a nerf, however there are lots of ways to make good sp with more on the way.

Try a grind party, or a dungeon. I find that I can make good sp and hour. Also note that camps that go a while without getting a behest run get a boost in sp as well.

Yoshi didn't lie he said that this update we would see a drop in sp, which was needed and that over the next several patches they would add in new ways, like sp chains etc.

there are only 2 things that are a negative with this patch

1) MP costs on raises and cures is WAAAAAAAAY too high. It needs to be dropped about 1/4th of it's current cost

2) All raises (included Resurrect but excluding Rebirth) are on the same timer, so there's no point in having anything more than Raise 2 and Rebirth in your Con skillbar at a time....this is ridiculous..

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Originally Posted by Dubont

2) All raises (included Resurrect but excluding Rebirth) are on the same timer, so there's no point in having anything more than Raise 2 and Rebirth in your Con skillbar at a time....this is ridiculous..

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Yea that is an issue. Maybe that will be adjusted.

4 man party 3 DD and a dedicated healer at ~35, we pulled about 400sp a pop and even more physical doing beastmen. Fantastic SP and no limit, not sure why people are crying. If we had XP chains like XI, then we would have been getting massive gains. Also worth noting since no one was camping our area it was just kill after kill non stop. Fun times.

Also mind you hate control was superb, was doing the tanking throughout the couple hours we were leveling, they really did do a nice job with the enmity mechanics. Pulling and tanking in the party genuinely felt like XI.

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Originally Posted by StudyGuy

4 man party 3 DD and a dedicated healer at 35, we pulled about 400sp a pop and even more physical doing beastmen. Fantastic SP and no limit, not sure why people are crying. If we had XP chains like XI, then we would have been getting massive gains.

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What most people are forgetting is that Surplus is gone. (YAY!) So the first tier of surplus was a 10% decrease in SP I believe. That is a gigantic chunk right there. And the further you tried to work through it the worse it would get and typically hinder SP for upwards of a WEEK! I would hit the first tier very easily in leve-linking parties. Then I would suffer for a week and it would gradually get worse. Now we're not burdened with that. The larger picture isn't SP/hr its SP/week. With Surplus you would receive less SP/week. Sure after the reset your SP/hr average would be tremendous, but the average would be significantly less towards the end of the week.

Well I was out of the game for 2-3 months and after this patch I tried to enter again. When I left I was rank 42 Pugilist so I logged in and tried some lvl 40 levequests. I soloed them at 3 stars and got 100-180 rank from each enemy and a 5800 rank reward (with favor on) for each leve. My rank needed to rank up was 78k so if you do the math I was able to solo about 56/78k in... 1h?.

Next leve reset I helped a friend who as Conjurer 41 couldn't solo them so well, and we did them in pairs, we were geting the same reward for our own leves (about 5800 rank at the end) and 780-800 for the leves of the other one. We DID notice tho that linking them was a waste, since we were geting the same reward as for no-linked leves. So this time we got about 70-80k rank in maybe 2h.

Now I ask is this nerfed? how was it before this patch then? I mean just with the leves (2h of time needed every 36h) I can rank up almost every 36h, geting from 43 (yes from the patch day to today i ranked up twice already) to 50 in about 1-2 weeks. And this is just with leves, we tried to kill some lvl 50sih mobs and they gave us arround 300-350 rank each one, killing them without problem with pug and conj only.

So now I ask again, do you really want to rank up faster than this? oO

So let me get this straight? We are upset...because Yoshi P fixed the buggy leve system that we were all totally taking advantage of by extorting every loop hole?

1.18 was a patch filled to the brim with content and a design team's honest effort to give this whiny, entitled and otherwise ungrateful community everything and anything they wanted.

OMHO 1.18 is the first of many patches that will drastically change the game in the direction the PLAYERS voted on when they filled out those surveys.

SP did not get nerfed, the only thing that was nerfed was the cheap loophole that allowed people to gain overly large amounts of sp with almost no effort with out even TRYING to experiences the game at all.

So rather than whine and "rage quit" why not try to play the game? Failing leves and killing the same three mobs over and over again was replaced with imho a better system that once worked out and brought into effect will be a MUCH MORE positive gaming experiences.

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Originally Posted by Hayden

So let me get this straight? We are upset...because Yoshi P fixed the buggy leve system that we were all totally taking advantage of by extorting every loop hole?

1.18 was a patch filled to the brim with content and a design team's honest effort to give this whiny, entitled and otherwise ungrateful community everything and anything they wanted.

OMHO 1.18 is the first of many patches that will drastically change the game in the direction the PLAYERS voted on when they filled out those surveys.

SP did not get nerfed, the only thing that was nerfed was the cheap loophole that allowed people to gain overly large amounts of sp with almost no effort with out even TRYING to experiences the game at all.

So rather than whine and "rage quit" why not try to play the game? Failing leves and killing the same three mobs over and over again was replaced with imho a better system that once worked out and brought into effect will be a MUCH MORE positive gaming experiences.

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lol really?

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

lol really?

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really really.

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Originally Posted by Hayden

So let me get this straight? We are upset...because Yoshi P fixed the buggy leve system that we were all totally taking advantage of by extorting every loop hole?

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I wouldn't say "we" are upset. A bunch of whiners (most of which are newbies with little or no experience of the leveling curve before) is upset.

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

lol really?

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Yep. Really. I know, that must make you really mad.

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Originally Posted by Noir

Yeah, you gave a great example. 760 synth is 5 lvls or more than your current lvl, which will make you fail 10x more. And that will go down easy when you get lvl. Use a normal xp rate like 300-350 and then we talk. I'm sure you can do even your 130 clicks for a lvl right? Everyday. Till lvl 50. Lol what a joke. Like I said, I don't care if you get 100% lvl 50 faster than anyone, just don't play stupid and explaining it was legit which wasnt. This is no a pvp game thank god, so, go get your lvls for all I care. I just don't like jerks to play as I'm cool and smarter , that's why I got there .

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So take the synth to 330 and you do 262 Synths, easily do-able and people, do... do it.

Do a bit on 1 class like 90 synths, 90 synths on another 90 on another and bam you have the same exact results. Infact you wouldnt even need to do that. Even at a 300 synth doing 100 synths you get 30k SP and 100 synths would only take me little over 2hrs. That combined with your 100k on another class (or classes) gets your your 130k average a day.

You're just ignorant and seemingly very envious of the people that you have such denial to even think people do craft legit. I dont understand why people play this game atall, i dont understand why people would craft for hours, but i know full well they do.

lol, I like how you say you were lied to when infact he didn't lie at all he said the PROCESS not the actual gains, silly boy.

The literal process still remains the same, leves reset, you do them, repeat, that hasn't changed. Gains may have changed, but you don't have fatigue anymore so they had to change something, they can't just have you making baller EXP while lifting your ability to do so as much as you want, that'll make people reach level cap quicker get bored quicker and quit quicker.

I also believe someone mentioned you can, infact, obtain EXP in other ways now.

Furthermore, GEEZ, some of you whine a lot. You act like Yoshi isn't trying to make the game better in anyway and is trying to make your free to play experience MISERABLE, god forbid you give the man a chance before you crucify him for making your level up experience not lightning fast. Are you guys shooting for CN page grinding and Abyssea grinding like FFXI or what?

A lot of people are saying that the sp is great when you join a group. I think what the op means is sp when you solo. I noticed when soling and killing things my rank or a few levels higher I was getting only half of the sp I got before the patch.

So basically they removed fatigue only to make sp gains as if you have constant fatigue, it seems a little silly to me.

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Originally Posted by napalmninja

A lot of people are saying that the sp is great when you join a group. I think what the op means is sp when you solo. I noticed when soling and killing things my rank or a few levels higher I was getting only half of the sp I got before the patch.

So basically they removed fatigue only to make sp gains as if you have constant fatigue, it seems a little silly to me.

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No, he thinks behests were/are the only way to get SP and he doesn't want to grind, solo or party, because he doesn't like it. Furthermore he's refusing to acknowledge that quests give a ton of SP now and that there are guild tasks.

If you read the thread, it's quite clear he has no idea what he's talking about.

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Originally Posted by napalmninja

A lot of people are saying that the sp is great when you join a group. I think what the op means is sp when you solo. I noticed when soling and killing things my rank or a few levels higher I was getting only half of the sp I got before the patch.

So basically they removed fatigue only to make sp gains as if you have constant fatigue, it seems a little silly to me.

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No the OP didnt mean solo because He was doing Behest so that is a party of 8 p.u.g. So he isnt solo he might play it that he was experiencing it solo because it was not a premade party but he is grinding out behests and they ruined it in his opinion.

700th post!

Edit: DOH!

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Originally Posted by Kensei

In Letter from the Producer XIV Yoshi dedicated a section of it to discuss ranking up. I will quote parts of it.

Ever since I posted on the forums, we’ve been receiving feedback from players worrying about whether or not we’re going to be nerfing the ranking up process. The simple and emphatic answer to this, just as I posted in the forums, is no.

Well Yoshi it was nerfed in every single way. Killing mobs gives less SP, Behest gives less SP and it can't be done back to back, guildleves give far less SP per kill and the final bonus is pathetic. What the heck is the use of Guardians Favor? I was getting 83 SP per kill and it increased to maybe 89 SP with favor and the final bonus was unaffected. I tried for a while with a party and the best we were getting was 340 SP with mobs 10 ranks higher than us, the problem was that every 3 kills our CON needed an MP break because of the outrageous MP cost increases.

I don’t want there to be a huge loss of skill points imposed for dying, or for players to have to grind 5–6 hours a day for 8 months to get to the high ranks.

Well, Yoshi, with the current state of SP gains it may not be for 8 months but it will certainly take 6+ hours a day of mindless grinding to make progress a decent pace now from 30s onward.

I do think ranking up should take longer in MMOs than in non-MMOs, but I plan to make the process both possible and enjoyable for players willing to invest the time, even if they’re solo, and even by doing quests and guildleves.

Are you serious? You just nerfed SP gains which you said you wouldn't do, we are now forced to grind to make decent progress for hours which you also said you wouldn't do and I already discussed leves' pathetic excuse of SP. As for quests they would have been viable if there were more than 5 and it would be more enjoyable if a quest in Gridania didn't sent me to Coerthas and back for a grand total of 1,700 Skill Points. I could get much more grinding in the same amount of time it takes to make that walk.

Why was this done? Are you really thinking that slowing ranking up to a crawl will retain population? Because this sort of thing is exactly what made everyone quit. Considering the state the game was slowly recovering from I would think this was the last thing they would consider doing.

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I agree ! This patch has been the biggest pile of shit ever!

The real issue isn't the amount of SP. It's the lack of fun while you earn it. (Although.. SP did seem a bit too fast before imo)

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Originally Posted by Grimoire

The real issue isn't the amount of SP. It's the lack of fun while you earn it. (Although.. SP did seem a bit too fast before imo)

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Are you kidding mate? The SP is the ONLY reason people play this game right now. They certainly don't play it because its fun! They play it because they figure they can get some SP, and be ahead of the game in terms of progression, and enjoy end-game that much sooner when the game IS fixed. Now SE took away SP gains, now there is NO reason to play.

I don't play it because it isn't fun. Not because of the SP.

That's what I'm saying. No-one plays because it's fun.. because it's not. Those that DO play, play it for the SP-- which has been nerfed, and as a result, less play.

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Originally Posted by alexi14

That's what I'm saying. No-one plays because it's fun.. because it's not. Those that DO play, play it for the SP-- which has been nerfed, and as a result, less play.

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Have to disagree I don't play it for the SP. I play it for the fun and friends I have made... I wasn't in a rush to get a 50 to much until a friend of mine put me in a Leve Static and drug me kicking to 50.... I enjoyed it though because I had fun with my friends, and watching the game turn for the better, which it has. There is so much fun things to do in this game, but people want to ignore it because apparently people don't play and RPG for the lore or experience anymore such as alexi wants us too.. MUST BE THE HORRID BECAUSE I CANTZ GITZ MY SPz!

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

And a few posts later you admit that you didn't even know about leve linking / abandoning...
Fail. ^^/

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So because I didn't abuse an exploit that I didn't even knew existed I fail? Even if I had known of its existence I would have never done something that was clearly not meant to happen by the dev team. If you do things that way that's your decision.

And try to read next time, that line you quoted was in reference to my OP as in my experience with every way of SP gain AFTER the patch.

All that I want is some heavy gear based content that gives SP as well. That way you can get SP while you have fun earning your next upgrade and it doesn't feel like a grind. oh.. wait a second.. they added dungeons in 1.18 too?! It's almost like they planned it. Weird.

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Originally Posted by Delmontyb

The issue with this thought is that we knew leves were getting fixed so the 100k an hour loophole is now closed, which might be considered a nerf but in a world in need of balance this needed to happen.

The statement that leves are not longer the central focus of the game needs to be remembered as players wanting to play the old way did get hit with a nerf, however there are lots of ways to make good sp with more on the way.

Try a grind party, or a dungeon. I find that I can make good sp and hour. Also note that camps that go a while without getting a behest run get a boost in sp as well.

Yoshi didn't lie he said that this update we would see a drop in sp, which was needed and that over the next several patches they would add in new ways, like sp chains etc.

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That is all fine but it all contradicts him saying ranking up wouldn't be nerfed because by slowing it down you effectively nerf it.

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Originally Posted by Naryl

Well I was out of the game for 2-3 months and after this patch I tried to enter again. When I left I was rank 42 Pugilist so I logged in and tried some lvl 40 levequests. I soloed them at 3 stars and got 100-180 rank from each enemy and a 5800 rank reward (with favor on) for each leve. My rank needed to rank up was 78k so if you do the math I was able to solo about 56/78k in... 1h?.

Next leve reset I helped a friend who as Conjurer 41 couldn't solo them so well, and we did them in pairs, we were geting the same reward for our own leves (about 5800 rank at the end) and 780-800 for the leves of the other one. We DID notice tho that linking them was a waste, since we were geting the same reward as for no-linked leves. So this time we got about 70-80k rank in maybe 2h.

Now I ask is this nerfed? how was it before this patch then? I mean just with the leves (2h of time needed every 36h) I can rank up almost every 36h, geting from 43 (yes from the patch day to today i ranked up twice already) to 50 in about 1-2 weeks. And this is just with leves, we tried to kill some lvl 50sih mobs and they gave us arround 300-350 rank each one, killing them without problem with pug and conj only.

So now I ask again, do you really want to rank up faster than this? oO

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The point is that is was faster before the patch. As such, ranking up was nerfed.

I'm not talking about whether it is fast enough now or was too fast. Yoshi said it wouldn't be nerfed and he did. That's all.

This OP is completely wrong.. SP wasn't nerfed it was balanced out. Yes you dont get 15k SP from D4D RR and ACU, but now you get 5k from every leve. That's not a nerf, that's balance. What you need to do is solo your leves as they are intended, on solo. That will get you the 5k/leve that your suposed to get. Then, Go do something else. There is plenty of stuff to do now, especially when you consider some quests give up to 40k sp. I dont see how anyone can call that a nerf. You also get 10k SP from a dungeon run. Oh but the down time.. wait a minute thats five minutes...

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Originally Posted by Hayden

So let me get this straight? We are upset...because Yoshi P fixed the buggy leve system that we were all totally taking advantage of by extorting every loop hole?

1.18 was a patch filled to the brim with content and a design team's honest effort to give this whiny, entitled and otherwise ungrateful community everything and anything they wanted.

OMHO 1.18 is the first of many patches that will drastically change the game in the direction the PLAYERS voted on when they filled out those surveys.

SP did not get nerfed, the only thing that was nerfed was the cheap loophole that allowed people to gain overly large amounts of sp with almost no effort with out even TRYING to experiences the game at all.

So rather than whine and "rage quit" why not try to play the game? Failing leves and killing the same three mobs over and over again was replaced with imho a better system that once worked out and brought into effect will be a MUCH MORE positive gaming experiences.

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It is slower now than it was before. If you think the ranking up process was too fast before that is fine but it doesn't change the fact the before the patch Yoshi wrote that it wouldn't be nerfed. Slower ranking up = nerfed ranking up.

If he had written "Hey we are gonna balance ranking up because progression is too fast at the moment so it will be reduced to the point we think it should be" then that would have been perfectly fine and this thread wouldn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Kensei

It is slower now than it was before. If you think the ranking up process was too fast before that is fine but it doesn't change the fact the before the patch Yoshi wrote that it wouldn't be nerfed. Slower ranking up = nerfed ranking up.

If he had written "Hey we are gonna balance ranking up because progression is too fast at the moment so it will be reduced to the point we think it should be" then that would have been perfectly fine and this thread wouldn't exist.

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That depends on how you look at it man, Per hour the numbers may have gone down dramatically, but per 3 hours it remains the same and per day it has gone way up..


Plus, NO MORE FATIGUE

he got rid of fatigue and spread SP all over the board.. nerfed? maybe. fair? absolutely, deal with it :)~ we have been quite fine

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Originally Posted by Emonzaemon

lol, I like how you say you were lied to when infact he didn't lie at all he said the PROCESS not the actual gains, silly boy.

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This is what he said "I don’t want there to be a huge loss of skill points imposed for dying, or for players to have to grind 5–6 hours a day for 8 months to get to the high ranks. "


It may not be for 8 months but we will now have to do exactly that. Grind groups were very rare before the patch and now it's the only viable option.

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The literal process still remains the same, leves reset, you do them, repeat, that hasn't changed. Gains may have changed, but you don't have fatigue anymore so they had to change something, they can't just have you making baller EXP while lifting your ability to do so as much as you want, that'll make people reach level cap quicker get bored quicker and quit quicker.

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The process includes the speed at which we rank up. Lower gains means slower ranking up. It was nerfed. And you know what makes people quit quicker? Grinding for hours and hours not ranking up once.

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I also believe someone mentioned you can, infact, obtain EXP in other ways now.

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Yeah there are many ways. All slower than pre-patch. Apparently you haven't read the many times I have acknowledged it but that's irrelevant to the point of the thread.

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Furthermore, GEEZ, some of you whine a lot. You act like Yoshi isn't trying to make the game better in anyway and is trying to make your free to play experience MISERABLE, god forbid you give the man a chance before you crucify him for making your level up experience not lightning fast. Are you guys shooting for CN page grinding and Abyssea grinding like FFXI or what?

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Nope. I am not whining I pointed a lie by the producer. Whether it was intentional that ranking up slowed down or a development oversight is irrelevant. Other that the lie I am very much pleased with the work Yoshi has done. I mentioned this earlier in the thread.

I think Yoshi could give everyone a solid gold house fully equipped with servants, food for a year and a pool of chocolate and they'd STILL find something to complain about.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

No, he thinks behests were/are the only way to get SP and he doesn't want to grind, solo or party, because he doesn't like it.

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Oh so now you are blatantly lying about me and putting words in my mouth. A new low for the thread, congrats. I have mentioned this before but you clearly skip pages.

I don't particularly care about behest, I only used to do it pre-patch because it was the fastest sp/hour. Get that into your head and stop making things up.

Neither party grinding, soloing or questing give the same SP/hour as pre-patch. Understand?

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Furthermore he's refusing to acknowledge that quests give a ton of SP now and that there are guild tasks.

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A ton? 2-3k SP and this is how they go. A quest in gridania for 2.7k SP "Hey go to Mun-Tuy Cellars and kill 8 skeletons" In the time it takes to go there and come back I would have already gotten more SP from plain grinding. But even grinding wouldn't give the same SP/hour I could have gotten pre-patch.

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If you read the thread, it's quite clear he has no idea what he's talking about.

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Actually you resorting to lying proves it's the other way around.

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Originally Posted by Veltaine

he got rid of fatigue and spread SP all over the board.. nerfed? maybe. fair? absolutely, deal with it :)~ we have been quite fine

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true. I was testing around on my thm and con today in party, duo/trio and solo on leves.
I got 6-7k/leve and most of them i did in less then 15 min. So that wasn't bad at all. A lot of leves with full link gave less. Just the few "overpowered" leves gave far more, but that was it.

Normal SP parties got bad very fast due to fatigue. If you focus on one job you get more now then before 1.18.
I remember times before the patch trying to gain another lvl on my thm and i got 280 or less on mobs that usually gave 450xp. These times are over now and that is an increase.

Also the quests give some sp, ok not a huge amount but they didn't give a single point before 1.18.
The changes are very well done if one tries them out. I was a bit negative as well the first few hrs since i was used to spam some of these dunefolks etc. but now that i tried the possibilities i must say. Good balanced now!!

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Originally Posted by Kensei

This is what he said "I don’t want there to be a huge loss of skill points imposed for dying, or for players to have to grind 5–6 hours a day for 8 months to get to the high ranks. "


It may not be for 8 months but we will now have to do exactly that. Grind groups were very rare before the patch and now it's the only viable option.



The process includes the speed at which we rank up. Lower gains means slower ranking up. It was nerfed. And you know what makes people quit quicker? Grinding for hours and hours not ranking up once.




Yeah there are many ways. All slower than pre-patch. Apparently you haven't read the many times I have acknowledged it but that's irrelevant to the point of the thread.



Nope. I am not whining I pointed a lie by the producer. Whether it was intentional that ranking up slowed down or a development oversight is irrelevant. Other that the lie I am very much pleased with the work Yoshi has done. I mentioned this earlier in the thread.

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People should stop debating with this guy.. There gets to be a point where a persons ignorance of their own short coming makes it impossible to see they are wrong.

If you learn to play better, this is not an issue. I know, I've been testing the new leve system since release.

It equals out to lower even SP across leves with no insentive to fight on higher than solo. This means players will get less SP for a single leve at a much higher pace. The 15k you got for 25 mins of D4D is now 15k from 3 leves in half that time. After you finish you leves there is a series of other activities you are supposed to participate in to continue gaining sp.

Yoshi P. said and the Masses cheered..

"Guildleves will no longer be central to FINAL FANTASY XIV." - Yoshi P.