"gogogo" might make me quit this game.

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

If a dps is sitting 4th on that list, it may be time for the dps to question their ability

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4th out of 4 total players, meaning one DPS is better than the other? Do you see why I say that the attitude of our community has become concerning?

Our community is going through growing pains. It’s understandable that people are disappointed at the slow pace of dungeons. Square Enix did not design older content well for wall-to-wall efficiency, and because humans are naturally competitive, players blame each other rather than the game design. Square Enix needs to mitigate the inherent competitiveness among players which has no place in co-op content. Otherwise the players, who are often guided by subconscious impulses, will turn increasingly hostile and toxic until new players are put off from playing the game.

When it comes to dungeons there is not much to know, even in new ones. You basically just round up all the mobs and hold em as the dps do their thing. There are seldom any mechanics to worry about in a standard pull and idk why ppl think there is. They have dumbed the standard dungeon down so much that all you need to know is your basic rotation, you don't need to actually know mechanics til the boss.

This just makes me super confused. You are going to be hitting the same buttons, doing the same rotations, stepping out of the same aoe puddles with 3 mobs as you do with 6 or 9. It's been like this since the early 2k in mmos, where just rounding up mobs and burning them down was the best way to level.

I am just failing to see why this is so complicated that ppl get upset and refuse to do it or think its somehow ruining their experience. I get it if you are leaving behind ppl watching a cs, that is experience ruining for sure, but rounding up a slightly larger pack does nothing and is no more complicated than rounding up a small one. Knowing your job is leaps and bounds more important than knowing the dungeon at this point and if you just tell your party you are new and don't know or remember boss mechs they are usually going to be much more understanding if you mess up.

Honestly, if you do not have the confidence as a tank to pull 9 mobs instead of 3 and refuse to better yourself you are going to have a very bad time in virtually anything else in the game and should maybe reconsider tanking in general cause it doesn't sound like the right job for you. Is that harsh? Perhaps. But sometimes you need to face reality.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

4th out of 4 total players, meaning one DPS is better than the other? Do you see why I say that the attitude of our community has become concerning?

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That's not what they're referring to. There's always going to be one dps higher than the other. It's impossible to have them both be 2. The issue is when the healer is higher on that list than a dps, who's sole job is to do damage. That's how you can tell they are under performing.

So to clarify, the example given is comparing the threat of a dps to a healer, not a dps vs a dps.

By all means, enjoy your cutscenes but I am going to keep pulling. Simple as.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

To Fast Snip.

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Honestly this not only goes for you but to others like you, this is how the game goes. The average for a dungeon run is two packs, it's efficient because people have other things in the game or in the day that they don't want to be stuck running a dungeon for 45mins. We have been doing this since 2013.

As for looting, select need if you want or greed if you want because most of us really don't care. The best gear is purchase with tokens. Dungeon gear is either glamour, desynth, or traded at Doma.

Now if you want to look around you can stay there after or do the sightseeing run.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

That's not what they're referring to. There's always going to be one dps higher than the other. It's impossible to have them both be 2. The issue is when the healer is higher on that list than a dps, who's sole job is to do damage. That's how you can tell they are under performing.

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Or maybe the WHM just threw down Medica II. That spell shoots me up to the top of the aggro list in no time. I don't know why you're looking down on other players for not pulling enough threat. If you get the three best DPS in the world in an instance, one of them is going to be at the bottom of the list at some point. The healer is also going to be above all of them in aggro at some time. Healing pulls much more aggro than damage.

We can argue back and forth about 'dungeon etiquette' all we want but, at the end of the day, some people like to go fast, others like to go slow. No one's going to convince the other side that their way is better, because it's all a manner of personal taste. I've yet to see this be a major issue in game as I haven't witnessed a single 'confrontation' between players wanting to either go faster or slower. This leads me to believe I'm either the luckiest player ever or the people making a mountain out of a molehill are the ones instigating problems in their respective groups.

If you want to go fast, then go fast and hopefully the rest of the group follows suit. Same for people wanting to go slow. If you can't handle the pace, drop group, take the penalty and go take a breather. Arguing won't make things go faster/slower, it'll only make the rest of the group quietly resent you for making things awkward.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Or maybe the WHM just threw down Medica II. That spell shoots me up to the top of the aggro list in no time. I don't know why you're looking down on other players for not pulling enough threat. If you get the three best DPS in the world in an instance, one of them is going to be at the bottom of the list at some point. The healer is also going to be above all of them in aggro at some time. Healing pulls much more aggro than damage.

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You try too hard but not hard enough to comprehend what you are replying to. Especially considering the example given was based on my own anecdotal experience as a healer. I’ll tell you right now I refrain from using medica 2 as I have seen too many bad healers spamming it. So medica 2 on a personal level, leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I don’t over heal. In fact I barely have to heal. When I do, I do only enough to get people between 80 % and topped up. I don’t heal unless they drop below 75% ish.
Now, using my own personal experience as a non heal spamming glare mage; there are dps who pull far below myself on the threat list. These players are under performing.
Now again, as you didn’t seem to get it yet, despite it being explained in a response already, this is again, not comparing dps to dps. It’s dps who output far less threat than a glare mage.
Healing only pulls more threat than damage if there is over healing. Like, exponentially. There are people who aren’t up to par. There’s no denying that. I don’t understand what you are trying to dispute

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Or maybe the WHM just threw down Medica II. That spell shoots me up to the top of the aggro list in no time. I don't know why you're looking down on other players for not pulling enough threat. If you get the three best DPS in the world in an instance, one of them is going to be at the bottom of the list at some point. The healer is also going to be above all of them in aggro at some time. Healing pulls much more aggro than damage.

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I play as healer in Nier raids. Those raids require a good amount of healing. Lots of AoE heals, including medica II. And not once have I ever "shot up" the list passed 7 unless a DPS is very evidently not pulling their weight.

If medica II "shoots you up the list", your DPS aren't pushing their buttons or you're spamming medica II (not everyone needs a regen 24/7 and using medica II before your previous medica II wore off does NOT increase the regen potency).

A healer will never be above a good dps at the same level.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

I can buy the argument that this is expected in the Expert roulette, even though I've never run it. However, this go go go mentality is even pervasive in the leveling roulette. I run the leveling roulette for tomestones almost daily. I'm well-acquainted with the lower level instances. I'm not so well acquainted with the higher level ones. I've seen people complaining about having run through these instances so many times that they're bored, but in my case, this is the first expansion that I've level capped in. if the instance is 60+, I'm often running it for the first time at worst, and for the third time at best.

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Many of us are not though. We're running it for the 100th time and don't feel like taking it slow because one person isn't able to keep up when the remaining two also want a fast run. Now there are some exceptions to this. In low level dungeons or new players, I'm more forgiving. Case in point, I didn't do as big a pull as a could after wiping in Dusk Vigil last night with a baby healer. I still maintained medium pulls though. Which segues into make next point. You aren't a novice by the midway point of Heavensward, if not early. You've literally reached more than half way to max level. If you still don't understand how to dodge orange circles, use CDs and have a basic understanding of your job kit, regardless of rule, you have no business queuing for 60+ content. Go back to the earlier dungeons and/or read your tooltips. I'm not going to pull three mobs at a time in Holminster Switch cause you're too lazy to actually practice your chosen job.

This notion big pulls are some sort of boogeyman is silly. Mobs do not hurt you whatsoever. Even in Leveling dungeons. Two sets of mobs aren't going to overwhelm even newer players nor is a DPS pulling ahead all that big a deal.