@Naoki Yoshida-> Make Samurai a Tank class!

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

As I've stated before, the negative effects of not adding new specific types of DPS is far less harmful to the health of the game than tanks or healers. Besides that, you nit-pick what counts as a magic job, disregarding two entire jobs that fundamentally play like magic casters only because they aren't fitting your specific idea of a magic job is. I'm sure you'd find some reason to discount Red Mage as a magic job if it is added as a DPS that does attacks in melee range too. Even then, if you enjoy sitting back and casting spells with cast-bars, you have 7 jobs to choose from, regardless if they're DoM or DoW. That's currently over half the jobs in the game.

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First, Bard and Machinist are not mage, they don't use magic at all, and they're part of the Disciples of War. I play them myself. Just because the devs added in the expansion The Wanderer's Minuet to Bard and that Machinist has Gauss Barrel that doesn't turn them into Disciples of Magic at all.

And just because I prefer playing at range doesn't mean I never play melee range. I also play Ninja, Warrior and Dragoon here. In Guild Wars I had a N/W (Necromancer / Warrior) where I had fun going melee with mobs with a big sword and a shield and siphon them with Blood magic. I did the same thing in Warhammer Online, don't remember the class, where I was siphoning mobs with magic and bashing them with a sword.

In other words, I don't care if magic classes are range or melee, I will play them anyway. If Red Mage is melee then I'Ll play it melee.

And when I leveled up my Warrior, my tank job, I did not do it for the community at all or because I want to switch to it and make it my main, I did it to help out my guild or my friends when a tank is necessary. My main has not changed at all. That has been helpful when I was in a group farming Ifrit Exreme for the mount and we could not get a tank so I switch to my Warrior.

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Originally Posted by Anzaman

Maybe so, but looking at previous years role-% charts, I'm only seeing amount of tanks shrinking.

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Sjeez I wonder why that is.. it's a god damn Tankless job and we are "just a meat shield and be quiet", how many times have I heard idiots in DF may it be healers or DPS say it? It hurts in a way not sure why the reduction of tanks, hell why we want new options in the tanking tier list.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

I think there is one fight in the whole game where the Tank LB is mandatory. Could be wrong.
Yes but then you have other interviews after the release of Heavensward, where he was asked about that and he says he was split and personally he would want SAM as a DPS. So...it really is a coin toss at this point.

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From the top of my head, T13 tank LB was needed after killing twin and adds and the second one is in A12s and NM mode.
For once I agree with you there: it's 50/50 but I definitely hope Sam being a tank.

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Originally Posted by Madepossible

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First off, I apologize if you get told to be a meat shield and be quiet, that's just rude and dickish from people. I hope you haven't been taking my points as that kind of tone,cause that is the futherest thing from what I am expressing. I want new tank jobs too cause its turning into quite the PLD convention. Though, still I don't agree with SAM being that but...opinions.

Also, I believe you only need the tank LB on T13 if you are rolling synced and even then with how overgeared people are now they may squeak by just fine for a healer LB3 to fix the problem. I hear A12S needs the tank LB and that may have been what I was thinking of. Anyways, goin' off topic again I think. So...I'll shut up for now.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

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I agree that if the only thing keeping people playing a tank job is introducing a new Tank Job every expansion then there really is something wrong with the gameplay style.

Also, as much as easy it is to just put another Sword Job as a Tank Job with some basic mechanic like Parry every single attack it does also get very bland to a point that everything Tank is a Sword user Job with main Tnakish focus being Heavy Armor with only Warrior giving a different type of weapon for a slightly different experience. If the only thing keeping players to play Tank Jobs is the thrill of playing as some person with a Sword then the entire concept of playing as a Tank in ths game is wrong and needs to be reworked to actually feel the enjoyment of playing as a Tank Job and not some Vanity experience of some guy with a sword for everything not Group content then only to just drop playing as a Tank because they don't want to deal with the responsibilities of the Tank Role for group content.

There are plenty of players playing Tank jobs but they're not playing it for Group content and only use the Tank job for Vanity through nongroup contents.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

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No it's not you who should be apologizing, it's the toxic players of the community. Second I never took your posts to that level, your perspective just differs from mine when it comes to this subject! :3
Oh well last time I did t13 was with weekly lockouts so mmm been a looong time tanking that one! Still remember the Akh Mourns, best raids of FFXIV imo: Binding coil when it was with loot lockouts. The countless of strategies people had for t1 and twintania and the whole anti warrior (lol). Waiting for an actual good lore plus challenging raid, until then: casual \^o^/

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

There are plenty of players playing Tank jobs but they're not playing it for Group content and only use the Tank job for Vanity through nongroup contents.

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Pretty much; I have tank and healer leveled and geared up, but I'm "only" using them when doing stuff with Free Company if no other member is available for it.

Or when I'm hunting for specific glamour items from for example Crystal Tower.

I would love for samurai to be a Tank in FFXIV, the job storyline/ quest fairly write themselves.

Many people keep thinking Yoshi will use the Last Samurai as a basis to tease the job, i'm hoping he'll go a bit old school.
https://ih0.redbubble.net/image.3112...,ffffff.u5.jpg

Say what you will but that would be an epic way to end the Samurai job quest as a Tank.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

I agree, to a point. Having variety is a key thing to keep the players happy, adding more tanks and healers would do that. But, the variety argument can go both ways. What fresh variety does SAM bring to tanking? Yes, sure I've seen you list off SAM's several defensive abilities through the FF series but that doesn't account for the several signature offensive abilities it has that equally argue for it to be a DPS.

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What variety would it bring DPS? The argument can go both ways.

Dark Knight's were known for sacrificing their HP to do big numbers, yet are still a tank. Samurai's in Final Fantasy games are notorious for having moves that can instantly kill enemies that attributes to the notion they're strong attackers, but such an ability cannot translate accurately into an MMO at all, it would be absolutely broken. In many games the Samurai character is no stronger (and sometimes weaker stat-wise) than the Knight class.

As I've said before, there is little need to argue for a job to be a DPS because everything can be a DPS from a design standpoint. It's the default option, everything does damage. But few things can be potential tanks if they're intent on tanks being these heavy armored assaulters. Removing a strong candidate from that miniscule pool is a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

Heck it could be a pseudo OT like DRG is sometimes in dungeons. If we want variety, lets bring something like Viking in, or Rune Knight, maybe something like Beastmaster where the tamed beast does the tanking, or heck something out of left field like a complete magic user tank. That would be variety, that would be fresh, that would keep things interesting, but adding another sword tank? Would only alleviate the problem temporarily.

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Just because you don't consider Samurai to bring variety does not mean it doesn't. To me, Viking is a poor man's Warrior, what variety would it possibly bring when Warrior has absorbed most of it's identity and abilities? Rune Knight by it's very name is less variety since we already have 2 knights, on top of it using weapons far more similar to the existing tanks than even Samurai (which is often a major complaint against Samurai being a tank). Beastmaster could work but the pet cannot tank for a huge number of reasons I've explained elsewhere, the only viable way it would work is if the pet is highly disposable and likely constantly re-summoned making it no different than MCH turrets and that's a bad way to go for something called a Beastmaster. Beastmaster is something that sounds neat on paper but realistically from a design standpoint is a developmental nightmare. 2 of the 3 tanks also have magic leaning identities, so a Rune Knight or magic-themed tank is also even more overlap. Dark Knight is already very much a magic user tank, their entire mechanic is managing their MP pool far more than even DoM jobs have to do.

You are going to sit here though, and argue that Rune Knight, Viking, etc. which have appeared in only a few titles and rarely recurring, come anywhere close to the overall popularity and appeal that Samurai brings through look and name alone? You think those alternatives can honestly hold a candle against that? They cannot. Samurai is generally the most requested job to be added to this game. Just because you don't consider Samurai to be adding variety doesn't mean it isn't, that's just your opinion. SE could design the job to play in any way they chose with any number of mechanics that would seperate it from the others.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

Again, I disagree with this argument, if this is such an issue, adding new tank jobs would be mandatory every expansion in order to keep the tanking community entertained. If the tanking community is so easily bored, that if they don't get regular content they'll quit tanking or something, then that means there is a problem with the tanking playstyle! Not the amount of jobs within the role. And trust me, there is stuff in the tanking playstyle that should be addressed, I mean...when do you ever use the tank LB? I think there is one fight in the whole game where the Tank LB is mandatory. Could be wrong.

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If the devs are intent on adding multiple jobs each expansion, then yes, they should be adding 1 of each role, period. Just like someone else tried to say in this thread, how does being stuck with the same jobs for 4 years and getting fed up and quitting any semblance of being "easily bored"? The tanking role is often seen as more demanding, so yes, those players should be thrown a bone because the trinity system relies on the pillars of tanks and healers to keep content going. Other issues such as not being able to use their LB are irrelevant to adding new jobs to the game.

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Originally Posted by StarRosie

So instead of pumping a bunch of new tank jobs into the game to keep the tank pool satiated, and maybe get a few people to pick a tank class up as an offspec. How about we address and attack the issue that keeps people from trying tanking instead? Again, I'm all for new tank jobs, but I don't think SAM would be a good choice for one and that is my opinion on the matter.

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Why can it not be both? Just because there is a problem with with tanking in general across multiple games does not mean people who play that role don't deserve variety and new things to occupy their time. To be blunt, they often deserve it more, which isn't fair but likely necessary. There does indeed need to be strong incentives in game to push people to trying/playing tanks, but that's a seperate issue and should not affect the decision on adding new tank jobs.

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Originally Posted by Korbash

First, Bard and Machinist are not mage, they don't use magic at all, and they're part of the Disciples of War. I play them myself. Just because the devs added in the expansion The Wanderer's Minuet to Bard and that Machinist has Gauss Barrel that doesn't turn them into Disciples of Magic at all.

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Arguably Bard and Machinists are indeed mages by multiple definitions. In game, they absolutely are in the form their gameplay mechanics are cast times. From a thematic theme they are as well, you think Bard songs aren't a form of magic? Or how about when they rain down a volley of brightly colored darts? That's not magic? And Machinist's by their very lore, use the aetherotransformer to convert their body's aether into lightning aspected aether that powers their gun and tech.
All you're doing is playing semantics here. You're nit-picking for the sake of nit-picking because you choose not to accept the notion so you can push your agenda. You're ignoring jobs that play and act like mages just because their title says Disciple of War, and not Disciple of Magic which is just silly.

Even then, the addition (or lack of) for Mages is highly irrelevant to this topic.

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Originally Posted by Shippuu

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Really in the end it more of the question if SAM as a Tank is enough to actually get people to play a Tank job Role in Group content.

We have plenty of people playing Tank Jobs now but it is for non-group content because they only want to play the Tank Job for Vanity sake.

One can argue in the short run of maybe 2 or 4 months there is a increase in Tank Queue time for Group content and a decrease in DPS time for Group content but it comes down to where that decrease/increase is affecting the game.


If it is endgame stuff then introducing SAM as a Tank Job was a success but if that effect is only for leveling content then it has not actually affected Tank Job Role as planned since leveling content often ends with the player dropping that Tank Job for max level group content thus the queue has not changed for the Max level content which is what most people wishing for SAM Tank would fix by increasing the Max level content population for Tank Jobs. Better queues for leveling contents is fine but the true aim for introducing new Tank Job will certainly focus more towards how the endgame is affected.

Either way SE certainly have their work cutout for them no matter which Job becomes a Tank in 4.0 since they have to start looking beyond Sword user Jobs for future Expansion Tank Jobs if they don't want their development team to be questioned with their "creative ability" when it comes to developing new Jobs.