It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

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Originally Posted by Arcari

If anything, I now only want this implemented to see the absolute rage that would presumably follow, gauging from several reactions in this thread. :P

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Better include hiding housing glamours. Every day I look at the Paissa Medium beneath my Large and I want it to be demolished. Or the Large chocobo house disrupting the Goblet canyon view from my Medium.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Better include hiding housing glamours. Every day I look at the Paissa Medium beneath my Large and I want it to be demolished. Or the Large chocobo house disrupting the Goblet canyon view from my Medium.

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When I see a paissa house I can feel its eyes staring into my soul, and it makes me uncomfortable.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

When I see a paissa house I can feel its eyes staring into my soul, and it makes me uncomfortable.

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Every time I see a Paissa house, I think to myself that Hydaleyn has forsaken her children...

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Even if this apparent "public use" rule applies, Square Enix overrules it and retains the copyright and the right to tell you to take it down.

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This is correct. If something is copyrighted you cannot just use it anyway you want, no matter who owns the copyright. Even if you cite the original owner that does not give you the right to use it. There is fair use, but it's not as simple as "someone posted it on the internet so now I can use it however I want." There are various rules and legalities and you would want to be careful with how you use someone else's "creation" for a better word - be it a photo, artwork, etc. If someone decided to sue you for using something they posted you could lose that lawsuit, depending on how or why you were using it.

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Originally Posted by Joven

If any of those options you listed didn't impact others play the I see no reason for them to not be implimented as well.

For someone claiming this to be a "sad waste of time" you sure don't seem to mind participating in it.

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Then perhaps an MMO isn't for you.

It's almost shameful to admit it, but I've played various MMOs over the years right back to the likes of Ultima Online, Graal, Everquest and the list goes on. I've had some incredible experiences and wonderful memories of these games going way back and in every case, a lot of these memories were shaped by the best and worst of people. MMOs live and die on their social merits and virtues, dilute that and you end up with a crummy long winded and ultimately underwhelming carrot chase with a rapidly vanishing end game.

You need the rough to make the smooth stand out. If you honestly think that an option to turn off an entire race or indeed all other players is even remotely acceptable in an MMO then I've got no further interest in this discussion with you.

Either you're trolling or you'd be better off in Skyrim/Breath of the Wild IMO.

And yeah, I have quite a lot of contempt for this topic as frankly, it goes against the diverse communities that successful MMOs are built on. I'd much rather be spending my time making constructive suggestions or throwing out my opinions on more worthwhile matters but alas, here I am in this bait thread.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Then perhaps an MMO isn't for you.

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That sort of mentality reads as spiteful gate keeping. By their very nature, MMO's appeal to a very broad audience of players. Not every bit of content is going to appeal to everybody. Not every feature is going to appeal to everybody. The development team are well aware of that fact and they frequently add ways in which players can tweak the game to their personal tastes.

The proposed suggestion does not affect you in any reasonable way. It's entirely client side. You don't have to use it yourself. You don't even have to like it - though it's a very troubling precedent to claim that anybody who doesn't like an element of the game has to go elsewhere. The use of 'diversity' is deceptive, too. Diversity and the 'live and let live' mentality are about a little give and a little take. Diversity isn't equal to a hive mind. It means many different players with many different opinions and tastes.

I can only imagine the backlash if I told the people who wanted the gender lock to be removed on equipment to just go and play a different game.

My immersion!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXkqNx5WsAAcm_P.png


My immersion!!
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20141008012137


My immersion!!!
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...12/080/cf3.png

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That sort of mentality reads as spiteful gate keeping.

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You literally want the option to remove other people's glams because you don't think some are good enough to grace your vision...and you accuse someone else of gatekeeping?

lol

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Originally Posted by Alacran

snip

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Look, don't bring Kuja and Sephiroth into this!

Also that third pic cracked me up, is that fan art from somewhere?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That sort of mentality reads as spiteful gate keeping.

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Yet you're trying to gate keep people who oppose this suggestion. Hypocritical.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

By their very nature, MMO's appeal to a very broad audience of players. Not every bit of content is going to appeal to everybody.

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Exactly. So not every glamour is going to appeal to you. Get over it. If you're staring that hard at someone else's character, maybe there needs to be some self reflection.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The proposed suggestion does not affect you in any reasonable way.

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And yet it's exclusion doesn't affect you in any reasonable way. It's just business as usual.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

You don't even have to like it - though it's a very troubling precedent to claim that anybody who doesn't like an element of the game has to go elsewhere.

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And yet you're telling other people who don't like it that their opinion is invalid and that they should approve of the inclusion of this feature?

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I can only imagine the backlash if I told the people who wanted the gender lock to be removed on equipment to just go and play a different game.

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They wouldn't because this game is one of the few MMO's that actually has a fair share of items that aren't gender locked. Point invalid.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That sort of mentality reads as spiteful gate keeping. By their very nature, MMO's appeal to a very broad audience of players. Not every bit of content is going to appeal to everybody. Not every feature is going to appeal to everybody. The development team are well aware of that fact and they frequently add ways in which players can tweak the game to their personal tastes.

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Agreed. The difference here is how we approach content that we aren't interested in. If I don't like something, I don't make stupid posts demanding it's removal or an option to hide it from me. I simply shrug my shoulders and move on.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The proposed suggestion does not affect you in any reasonable way. It's entirely client side. You don't have to use it yourself. You don't even have to like it - though it's a very troubling precedent to claim that anybody who doesn't like an element of the game has to go elsewhere. The use of 'diversity' is deceptive, too. Diversity and the 'live and let live' mentality are about a little give and a little take. Diversity isn't equal to a hive mind. It means many different players with many different opinions and tastes.

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Oh it absolutely affects me, and it absolutely affects the health of the community in this game. Why? Because this game already has a HUGE problem with a watered down sense of community and a sense of anonymity between players in large swathes of content. I have a very big problem with anything that takes us even further down this spiral of encouraging a mindset where people have zero tolerance, empathy or consideration towards their fellow players because they are just unable to cope with anything that doesn't fit tightly within their idea of how things should be.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I can only imagine the backlash if I told the people who wanted the gender lock to be removed on equipment to just go and play a different game.

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Removing gender locks are a very different issue. You'd be telling someone that they can't have more choice in what they can wear. I'm telling you that you need to be more accepting, tolerant and understanding of those around you even if their views or expressions don't align with your own. Big life lesson there.

Imagine caring this much about what someone else will see if they choose to turn glams off. You would literally never know if someone was using that feature, it would have zero effect on you if you didn't use it.

I get where some people are coming from, not wanting to see glamours. But this works for everything really - where would it stop asking the devs to do things like this for things they don't like to see?

Hide others glamours
Hide others mounts
Hide others house glams
Hide others hairstyles
Hide others races
Hide others skin tones
etc, etc, etc.

Where does it stop? I mean people saying that certain glamours are awful and they don't want to see them and shouldn't be forced to - well you could apply that logic to just about anything in the game. So where does the dev team take it? How much of their resources are used to make this and other similar requests? It's opening a can of worms that I doubt SE really wants to open.

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Originally Posted by ElciaDeiLinus

Imagine caring this much about what someone else will see if they choose to turn glams off. You would literally never know if someone was using that feature, it would have zero effect on you if you didn't use it.

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Imagine worrying that I'm sharing this MMO community with more and more people who are entirely unable to handle and deal with anything that doesn't fit squarely within their own personal box.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The proposed suggestion does not affect you in any reasonable way. It's entirely client side. You don't have to use it yourself. You don't even have to like it - though it's a very troubling precedent to claim that anybody who doesn't like an element of the game has to go elsewhere. The use of 'diversity' is deceptive, too. Diversity and the 'live and let live' mentality are about a little give and a little take. Diversity isn't equal to a hive mind. It means many different players with many different opinions and tastes.

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Don't you know that all diversity is welcome? Except for diversity of thought, that is.

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Originally Posted by ElciaDeiLinus

Imagine caring this much about what someone else will see if they choose to turn glams off. You would literally never know if someone was using that feature, it would have zero effect on you if you didn't use it.

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This is what I can't understand, either.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Then perhaps an MMO isn't for you.

It's almost shameful to admit it, but I've played various MMOs over the years right back to the likes of Ultima Online, Graal, Everquest and the list goes on. I've had some incredible experiences and wonderful memories of these games going way back and in every case, a lot of these memories were shaped by the best and worst of people. MMOs live and die on their social merits and virtues, dilute that and you end up with a crummy long winded and ultimately underwhelming carrot chase with a rapidly vanishing end game.

You need the rough to make the smooth stand out. If you honestly think that an option to turn off an entire race or indeed all other players is even remotely acceptable in an MMO then I've got no further interest in this discussion with you.

Either you're trolling or you'd be better off in Skyrim/Breath of the Wild IMO.

And yeah, I have quite a lot of contempt for this topic as frankly, it goes against the diverse communities that successful MMOs are built on. I'd much rather be spending my time making constructive suggestions or throwing out my opinions on more worthwhile matters but alas, here I am in this bait thread.

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I love how you assume that I would use this feature if it was implimented, then proceed to think you can lecture me about what games I would be "better off" playing instead. Don't be so full of yourself.

Any game that involves loot devolves into mindless carrot chases. That's one of the the only things these games have to keep players coming back: the next shiny thing to get.

I couldn't say one way or another whether or not I would use a feature like any of the ones listed. However, that doesn't mean I can't advocate for them if I feel like they wouldn't impose upon other players. I don't agree with the modding community, but it doesn't affect my game so I don't worry about them. While I was being a bit hyperbolic about options to remove races, it doesn't alter the fact that it would have no impact on someone else's gameplay.

No-one is forcing you to spend your time on here. If you feel like your time is better spent elsewhere, you know where the door is.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Don't you know that all diversity is welcome? Except for diversity of thought, that is.

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You have got to be trolling. Removing other people's glams is the definition of removing diversity of thought.

Maybe we have been duped all along. Maybe this is one elaborate troll session. Some of you guys are starting to make no sense.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You have got to be trolling. Removing other people's glams is the definition of removing diversity of thought.

Maybe we have been duped all along. Maybe this is one elaborate troll session. Some of you guys are starting to make no sense.

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As troll-ish as this may come across I mean what I'm about to say...

I'm tempted to log in, equip a thong, fat chocobo head and some sort of beast tribe boots (and remove everything else) and ride around on my Whisper Go mount. It'd make me feel better anyway.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You have got to be trolling. Removing other people's glams is the definition of removing diversity of thought.

Maybe we have been duped all along. Maybe this is one elaborate troll session. Some of you guys are starting to make no sense.

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Am I? I believe I am saying you are allowed to wear whatever glamour you like. The toggle would not affect you. Your autonomy would still be respected. You, however, want to disqualify all of those who support the OP's suggestion. One choice adds options/choices to the game and the other prevents it. I want to control what my eyes see. You also seem to want to control what my eyes see.

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Originally Posted by Joven

One thing I'd like to point out about public sharing on the internet that some people on here seem to be unaware of or ignoring completely: once you post something into a public space, be it Facebook, Twitter, W/E, that image is considered "public use". This means that I could take a picture you've posted of yourself and add captions to it, photoshop it, ETC. and repost it as much as I want. The only thing I can't do is claim the original image as my own.

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So, it looks like I can look forward to the day you get a takedown letter for your efforts.

Be very careful when giving copyright law advice to people.

Other players would be imposed upon.

How we choose to glam is how we choose to express ourselves. That shouldn't be something you can just turn off because you don't like seeing a hrothgar in a dress or something. For some people, being able to choose how the appear and present themselves is important. This system, even if they don't see it on the other end, is removing that expression and all that comes with it. You are removing my choice on how my character appears and is presented to you.

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

Other players would be imposed upon.

How we choose to glam is how we choose to express ourselves. That shouldn't be something you can just turn off because you don't like seeing a hrothgar in a dress or something. For some people, being able to choose how the appear and present themselves is important. This system, even if they don't see it on the other end, is removing that expression and all that comes with it. You are removing my choice on how my character appears and is presented to you.

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So instead, you want to impose your appearance on my gaze and leave me no choice but to see your expression. And no, I actually don't have a choice but to see it in a cutscene. In doing so, you have completely removed my choice even though if OP's option was implemented, your choices would still not have been removed.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

So instead, you want to impose your appearance on my gaze and leave me no choice but to see your expression. And no, I actually don't have a choice but to see it in a cutscene.

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Lol what cutscenes? The dungeon cutscenes that are few and far between and only viewed once?

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

So instead, you want to impose your appearance on my gaze and leave me no choice but to see your expression. And no, I actually don't have a choice but to see it in a cutscene. In doing so, you have completely removed my choice even though if OP's option was implemented, your choices would still not have been removed.

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When it comes to someoe's right to express themselves vs someone getting offended by that expression, I'll side with the person trying to express themselves every time. Freedom of speech is a thihng, freedom to like what everyone expresses is not. You don't have to like every glam you see. I certainly don't. But so what? It's not like someone's bad glam is reaching through the game to hurt you. Are you that thin skinned you have to ask the devs to let you block it out?

This is at worst blocking out peoples expression and at best, an unnecessary burden to an already understaffed dev team.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

One choice adds options/choices to the game and the other prevents it.

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More importantly, one option costs development dollars that have to provide some amount of monetary return while the other option is the current state of things, which doesn't require any funding.

Since I haven't seen anyone unsubscribe because of the lack of the option, my bet is they'll continue with the current state of things.

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

When it comes to someoe's right to express themselves vs someone getting offended by that expression, I'll side with the person trying to express themselves every time. Freedom of speech is a thihng, freedom to like what everyone expresses is not. You don't have to like every glam you see. I certainly don't. But so what? It's not like someone's bad glam is reaching through the game to hurt you. Are you that thin skinned you have to ask the devs to let you block it out?

This is at worst blocking out peoples expression and at best, an unnecessary burden to an already understaffed dev team.

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To me, you are blocking out people's freedom of choice in a game they choose to pay to play. Your freedom is speech is not infringed upon whatsoever. I'll suppose you will say if I don't buy someone's book I am infringing on their freedom of speech because I am blocking out their expression? No, they have no idea I didn't buy their book.

Forcing me to consume your self-expression is the anti-freedom option.

Imagine being so intolerant of other people in an MMO that you want control over the glamour choices of others.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

The toggle would not affect you.

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At this point it's starting to get funny how you lot conveniently completely ignore screenshots and streams. It does affect us if someone displays our characters in a way we didn't choose. It would be especially concerning if removing glams resulted in revealing a sexy outfit, because some combat gear does qualify as that, and a creep could take uncompromising screenshots of it, and then upload them to a public domain.

And I'm sure you will continue to ignore it because it puts a hole in your "it only affects the end user" argument.

Not to mention the slippery slope this is. What next? An option to remove certain hairstyles from view? Certain races? Certain minions? Mounts? Emotes? Housing skins? Furniture?

I generally dislike how dark lipstick looks in this game. Should I ask SE for a make-up free version of every face in the game?

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Originally Posted by Penthea

At this point it's starting to get funny how you lot conveniently completely ignore screenshots and streams. It does affect us if someone displays our characters in a way we didn't choose. It would be especially concerning if removing glams resulted in revealing a sexy outfit, because some combat gear does qualify as that, and a creep could take uncompromising screenshots of it, and then upload them to a public domain.

And I'm sure you will continue to ignore it because it puts a hole in your "it only affects the end user" argument.

Not to mention the slippery slope this is. What next? An option to remove certain hairstyles from view? Certain races? Certain minions? Mounts? Emotes? Housing skins? Furniture?

I generally dislike how dark lipstick looks in this game. Should I ask SE for a make-up free version of every face in the game?

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I ignored it because it would be such a ridiculously rare occurrence. Also, it is not a 'sexy outfit' glam I would advocate for. I don't care if people are dressed in the warrior AF as suggested earlier. I'm not advocating for this so that you'll be put into a miniskirt. No avatar on here is that special.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

To me, you are blocking out people's freedom of choice in a game they choose to pay to play. Your freedom is speech is not infringed upon whatsoever. I'll suppose you will say if I don't buy someone's book I am infringing on their freedom of speech because I am blocking out their expression? No, they have no idea I didn't buy their book.

Forcing me to consume your self-expression is the anti-freedom option.

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There is no such thing as a 'freedom of liking everyone's outfit.' You don't have to like what everyone expresses but asking for the ability to mute it because you can't handle it is crazy, and an unnecessary burden on the dev team to make it work. If someone in a two second dungeon cutscene has an outfit you don't like, tough. Deal with it rather than trying to bury your head in the and and pretending its not there.

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

There is no such thing as a 'freedom of liking everyone's outfit.' You don't have to like what everyone expresses but asking for the ability to mute it because you can't handle it is crazy, and an unnecessary burden on the dev team to make it work. If someone in a two second dungeon cutscene has an outfit you don't like, tough. Deal with it rather than trying to bury your head in the and and pretending its not there.

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Funny, we all block out people's self-expression all the time if we go by the logic of people in this post. Every time you don't look at someone's piece of art. Every time you don't watch a program on the TV. Every time you block someone on here. Every time you unsub from an MMO. Every time you don't buy a game.

I also love how you say to 'deal with it' when you unable to deal with a benign option being put in that would only benefit those who would use it and not hurt you in any way.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

At this point it's starting to get funny how you lot conveniently completely ignore screenshots and streams. It does affect us if someone displays our characters in a way we didn't choose. It would be especially concerning if removing glams resulted in revealing a sexy outfit, because some combat gear does qualify as that, and a creep could take uncompromising screenshots of it, and then upload them to a public domain.

And I'm sure you will continue to ignore it because it puts a hole in your "it only affects the end user" argument.

Not to mention the slippery slope this is. What next? An option to remove certain hairstyles from view? Certain races? Certain minions? Mounts? Emotes? Housing skins? Furniture?

I generally dislike how dark lipstick looks in this game. Should I ask SE for a make-up free version of every face in the game?

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If you were actually paying attention someone suggested that if a person was to use this feature then streaming and screenshots could be deactivated to cover such concerns.

And as I've said myself: people are already making complaints about every feature in this game not having some aspect of something they want. It's ultimately up to the devs. to decide on what and how they would impliment.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Imagine worrying that I'm sharing this MMO community with more and more people who are entirely unable to handle and deal with anything that doesn't fit squarely within their own personal box.

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I've always been of the opinion that people that care too much about controlling other people's personal boxes, when it has absolutely no effect on themselves, are in the wrong.

The funny thing is, I've seen the exact same arguments you're using just on the other side in WoW classic. On that end, it's people who want optional tmogs as part of WoW, that you could toggle on and- again, if you didn't want to be part of it, you wouldn't have to. Ultimately, those that want to force everyone to use/see glams/tmogs and those that want to force nobody to use/see them are basically the same, and it shouldn't be surprise. In both cases, you want control over someone else- and all they want is control over themselves.

Control over others btw is the absolute enemy of diversity, so don't for a moment think you can pretend you're on diversity's side.

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Originally Posted by ElciaDeiLinus

Ultimately, those that want to force everyone to use/see glams/tmogs and those that want to force nobody to use/see them are basically the same, and it shouldn't be surprise. In both cases, you want control over someone else- and all they want is control over themselves.

Control over others btw is the absolute enemy of diversity, so don't for a moment think you can pretend you're on diversity's side.

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Ding ding ding. This is what brought me to this thread to begin with, and this is the crux of the argument.

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Originally Posted by Joven

If you were actually paying attention someone suggested that if a person was to use this feature then streaming and screenshots could be deactivated to cover such concerns.

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And how, technologically, would you do that?

Streaming isn't an in-game option, so SE has as much control over that as they have over players using a parser.

Screenshots can be taken outside of the game's control -- or are you saying SE should, somehow, illegally disable that ability for NVidia card users outside of the game?

(The in-game screenshot provides that SE copyright notice.)

The difference is we want to control how our OWN CHARACTERS look.

You want to control how OTHER PEOPLES CHARACTERS look. Even if only on your screen.

That is the difference and that is why I will never endorse this idea.

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

The difference is we want to control how our OWN CHARACTERS look.

You want to control how OTHER PEOPLES CHARACTERS look. Even if only on your screen.

That is the difference and that is why I will never endorse this idea.

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Yes, and if the option were implemented you'd STILL control how your character looks. Yet you want to go beyond that and control what I see.

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

I ignored it because it would be such a ridiculously rare occurrence.

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It's a rare occurrence for people to take screenshots of other people, and to stream? Lol are you serious?

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Also, it is not a 'sexy outfit' glam I would advocate for. I don't care if people are dressed in the warrior AF as suggested earlier.

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First of all it would be very lore breaking to have everyone be dressed a warrior (even though it would be hilarious) and if you suggest that everyone be in AF gear, some of it can be revealing, especially if you are a female character.

But you don't give a toss about what I have to say because apparently your desire to change everything to your world view somehow trumps my desire to have my character seen in the outfit I chose for her.

Apparently I'm unreasonable because I don't want you to dress my own character into something else I did not choose. :cool:

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Originally Posted by ElciaDeiLinus

Control over others btw is the absolute enemy of diversity, so don't for a moment think you can pretend you're on diversity's side.

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How am I controlling someone else by wearing a glam? How is that controlling someone else? I do not force people to look at my glams. If they dislike them they can simply look away. I don't grab them by the ears and force them to behold my character.

By this logic you can go to a stranger in the street and complain that they are controlling what you see by wearing an outfit you don't like.

This thread is starting to look like a classic case of "why oh why can't everyone just do what I want?!? SE change the game so I can be rid of the inferior fashion sense of other players!"

I'm sure if the devs are reading this thread they're rolling their eyes so much they're starting to fall out of their skulls. They don't create all this gear only to have it hidden by someone who is incapable of existing in the same plane of existence as someone who has a different taste in clothing.

Some of you lot need to learn how to exist in a mmo setting.

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Originally Posted by PeppermintBrown

When it comes to someoe's right to express themselves vs someone getting offended by that expression, I'll side with the person trying to express themselves every time. Freedom of speech is a thihng, freedom to like what everyone expresses is not. You don't have to like every glam you see. I certainly don't. But so what? It's not like someone's bad glam is reaching through the game to hurt you. Are you that thin skinned you have to ask the devs to let you block it out?

This is at worst blocking out peoples expression and at best, an unnecessary burden to an already understaffed dev team.

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No, I don't think you understand at all what you're saying.

OK, let's say you're saying things I don't want to hear. I can /ignore you, and voila, I've muted what you are saying on my end. This DOES NOT silence you, this doesn't take your expression away, this just makes it so I can choose not to hear you.

Same here- if I mute your glam on my end, your glam still exists for you and everyone else, I just don't want to see it, much like with ignore.

It would seem to me everyone against this sort of function is also, if consistent with your beliefs on the matter, completely against there being ignore functions in games or on social platforms. Can you honestly tell me you've never used an ignore function in your life?

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Originally Posted by Zabuza

Yes, and if the option were implemented you'd STILL control how your character looks. Yet you want to go beyond that and control what I see.

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I don't want to see another Lalafell in-game. Will your feature give me that too? How do you feel about that, given your current character's race?