So Second Coil has been destroyed

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Originally Posted by Izsha

.... Raiders aren't nolife neckbeards in their moms basements. ...

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I don't see how you get this from:

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Originally Posted by Hayden

...those of us with children, gainful employment, social commitments and busy schedules, who don't have time to sign a blood oath with a static, least we sacrifice our first born god forbid we have to work late and get stuck in the office."...

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And so what if people live in their parent basement, they are still paying customers and players. The problem only arise when insults are being thrown at the new/newer players, players with less time, etc.

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Originally Posted by Kiara

[B]....
As someone who had both Coils on farm, I can tell you, NONE of my friends or other LS end gamers I know of would relish having Square give us "the original First Coil in its original difficulty." :p

All of the hardcore players on my server were GLAD we could blow through Turn 4 in 3 minute speed runs to farm our Nexus Lights (SO GOOD on Bonus Light!), and farm Allagan mat drops now. ...

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That is so true. And SCoB with its current adjustment is still wiping farm parties that do NOT get the "soldiery bonus" message. It is nowhere close to being nerfed to the ground for free gimmes.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Actually no one has the eye-hand coordination. There is not a single group of player, all new to T5,T9,or T13 that can one-shot the thing on their very first try relying only on eye-hand coordination. It is not about eye hand coordination actually, it is about be people not being inclusive, but instead being deliberately unhelpful, excluding players, and all the verbal abuse that goes along with that (like lazy, spoonfed, bad, etc. which are all false for the vast majority of the players) is why there are 99% of the player base that has yet to even try T9.
SE is implementing the plan they've stated months ago and it is a smart plan to make use of existing content to make part of the learning curve. FCoB train is here to replace the spot SCoB used to take up, and in process of the making the game more accessible and inclusive. If you want that challenge and the feelings that come from that, go T10 and up.

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You're still babbling about this? People have told you time and time again that your misconceptions about "pro players" are completely ridiculous.
There are plenty of helpful players around. I hardly believe you will meet any with that attitude of yours, tho.

You are the one, with your arguments, to look down at "casuals". "Casual" does not mean bad - a "casual" player can beat T9 with just a bit of effort. I am quite convinced of that. You, on the other hand, are supporting the idea that the majority of players needs an "Easy Mode" version because, for some reason, they are born unskilled.
This is not the case (not always, at least).



You should have a bit more faith in your fellow players, I think, instead of insulting their abilities.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

SNIP."

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90% of the forum post from supposed casuals state "they have a life and they don't have time to play and beat the stuff" (translation I lack the skill to beat the said stuff").

By true definition you statement is correct and so is mine but that is not whats happening on these forums. What is happening is there is a skill gap and the people with lack of skill are saying they are casuals and blaming it on time spent in the game instead of just accepting that they just lack the skill. The people with skill are called hardcore because the people without skill assume that they spend way more time to get said skill lvl. So it's been twisted that more time = more skilled = hardcore.

Along with these twisted views comes further twisted views by stating that hardcore = prick and casual = abused 2nd class citizen. This is all just a massive skewed view of our modern wanna be politically correct world.

That is also why I said that casual / hardcore should not be used when discussing content because it is the skill that sets the people apart not the time spent on the game.

Another example would be my friend that just came back. He had been gone for about 6 months. He came back and the game had tons more content. He came on little bits @ a time to grind. About 1 week later we needed a body for turn 9 and we asked him to come and he said he had not even been in coil 2. We said yea yea just watch the video and come with it. So we go into turn 9 and one shot it with a complete turn 9 nub. Now before you say he was carried that is not the case because he did not die one time.

So since he plays just for short bursts @ a time by forum standards he is a casual and he beat turn 9 on his first try but, if he comes in here stating that turn 9 is easy now he is labeled hardcore by the forum because of his skill vs the others.

So my original post is correct.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

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You should have a bit more faith in your fellow players, I think, instead of insulting their abilities.

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I do that is why I encourage people be more inclusive and help with learning parties once in a while.

I do NOT look down on any players, I even stated that terms like "bad" is inappropriate for talking about other players. Casual players are not bad either, nor are new players. You can search the thread and see that is my consistent message.

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Originally Posted by Symbiant

... So we go into turn 9 and one shot it with a complete turn 9 nub. Now before you say he was carried that is not the case because he did not die one time.
...

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Some people get all the luck. Not dying does not mean he was NOT carried, just means the rest of the player knew what they were doing and wasn't get him killed by meteors, golems, etc. Also harder than T9 is getting people that know T9, it is really good luck to run into a bunch of people that just so fits that bill. that alone means he could have been dead body carried.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

I do that is why I encourage people be more inclusive and help with learning parties once in a while.

I do NOT look down on any players, I even stated that terms like "bad" is inappropriate for talking about other players. Casual players are not bad either, nor are new players. You can search the thread and see that is my consistent message.

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Nope.

Terms like "bad" are not inapproriate at all. Players CAN be bad. Lots of players are bad, actually. This does not mean that they can't become good, tho. Some of them do. Some of them don't.

Those who do become good do so by watching guides, asking (and listening to) advices, learning to play their class properly, etc.
Those who don't just expect good players to "help" them by going with them in PF and killing the boss.

By supporting the nerfing of content, you are indirectly stating that the majority of players are inherently bad, and that they NEED the content nerf in order to progress.

I'd say it's a quite rude and elitist thing to say.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

I don't see how you get this from:

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Because there is a rather obvious line they draw.

"The hard core's get to have their challenge, work hard to earn their shit, then when content is old and ignored and somebody has it down to spam-clearing 10 times an hour"

So far so good. Successful raiders get it done 1st. Often down to 'farm status'. No brainer. Simple description of raiders as people who do raids.

"(Then) they nerf it for the 30 something crowd(there's an age limit on raiding now? Assume much?), you know those of us with children(raiders can't have kids eother?), gainful employment(raiders don't have jobs), social commitments (raiders are anti social?)and busy schedules(raiders are never busy?), who don't have time to sign a blood oath with a static, least we sacrifice our first born god forbid we have to work late and get stuck in the office (hmm I've had to cancel my raids because I was stuck in the office before.....guess I'm not a raider).

This whole paragraph is loaded with assumptions and stereotypes. This could have been said simply as:

"after the raiders have it on farm, they nerf it for people that can't or won't raid." The end.

Instead we get a loaded statement implying raiders don't have the same problems as everyone else. It's just a other case of broad generalizations insulting a wide swath of people.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

The problem only arise when insults are being thrown at the new/newer players, players with less time, etc.

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Silly me I forgot, its only insulting when an endgame player is mean, never the other way around.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

Because there is a rather obvious line they draw.

"The hard core's get to have their challenge, work hard to earn their shit, then when content is old and ignored and somebody has it down to spam-clearing 10 times an hour"

So far so good. Successful raiders get it done 1st. Often down to 'farm status'. No brainer. Simple description of raiders as people who do raids.

"(Then) they nerf it for the 30 something crowd(there's an age limit on raiding now? Assume much?), you know those of us with children(raiders can't have kids eother?), gainful employment(raiders don't have jobs), social commitments (raiders are anti social?)and busy schedules(raiders are never busy?), who don't have time to sign a blood oath with a static, least we sacrifice our first born god forbid we have to work late and get stuck in the office (hmm I've had to cancel my raids because I was stuck in the office before.....guess I'm not a raider).

This whole paragraph is loaded with assumptions and stereotypes. This could have been said simply as:

"after the raiders have it on farm, they nerf it for people that can't or won't raid." The end.

Instead we get a loaded statement implying raiders don't have the same problems as everyone else. It's just a other case of broad generalizations insulting a wide swath of people. But I forgot, its only insulting when an endgame player is mean, never the other way around.

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Didn't you know?

Raiders are like this:

http://www.chud.com/nextraimages/sept1south5.jpg

While "casuals" are like this:

http://www.dailyhotguy.com/imo/media...130604-600.jpg

I am surprised this is not common knowledge.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

I do NOT look down on any players

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You believes Clear Sellers are the scum of the earth and should burn in a fire. Clearly, that's looking down on another player.

If I may be so bold, I recommend you rethink your approach. While your message is commendable, your approach clearly is not.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Not really. She (or He, more likely)'s just a very fun troll, always hanging around spouting things trying to enrage people. Her usual arguments are "clear sellers" and "mysogynism".

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Has she mentioned a certain Twitter hashtag?

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Don't worry, she will leave as soon as she gets cornered.

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Really, cause she argued with a bunch of other people on a thread I made exclaiming I beat T5. How long does it take to corner her?

Me and my group haven't even started Turn 6-9, our static is never on at the same time and we focus more on EX Primals than Coil, not to mention we only have 7 players, not a full 8) We are hoping to catch up on more content soon (yet to do Ramuh and Shiva EX due to lack of time) but as far as I can tell, the fights will still be tough, but they will have a bit more room for error than last time, making them less frustrating, but still fun to play.

I guess I won't know the accomplishment of beating the unnerfed Second Coil, but since Second Coil Savage remains unnerfed, beating that will more than make up for it.

I still wouldn't PUG it though, doing the Binding Coil with PUGs is like herding cats.

Greetings, all!

It seems like both sides have had an opportunity to express their opinions about the changes to the Second Coil of Bahamut. At this time, it seems that the thread has become an opportunity to attack, insult, and aggravate each other. Because of this, I am locking the thread to prevent further inappropriate behaviour. I will be having GMs look into the thread to clean it up; however, due to the size of the thread, this may not result in the thread being unlocked.

Should another thread be started to discuss changes to the Second Coil of Bahamut, please keep it civil, since continued attempts to insult, attack, or aggravate one another will result in account actions, which could lead to the removal of forum privileges.

LGM Enkrateia