Bard - they broke my job

This is a huge improvement. Minuet is actually useable now.

Once u learn the fights you can easily anticipate movement heavy phase of the fight. Turn it off. Move while maintaining up time. Then on again.

If I have it ready I turn it off pop 2 buffs (like before) then turn it on and iron jaw refresh my dots.... The play style is very dynamic now. It kinda resolve the issue of "I have so many buffs lined up" ... Off minuet pop ur buffs between heavyshots. Then turn it on again in an instant.

Edit for auto spell zzzz

It is better, specifically the instant stance change instead of prolonged casting of WM but without accurate parser data and a good sample size it is hard to tell how much of an improvement. It certainly does not feel like it is completely fixed the problems with other class comparative DPS scaling yet...plus the people who do not like the fact it plays just like a BLM minus the very good DPS have a valid reason to not like the changes since if they wanted to play like a BLM they would of done so from the offset. One thing for sure is you are certainly punished for not having it WM on and it seems SE wants you to keep it on even if avoiding AoE's because the trade off of losing out on a single casting timer on one skill might not seem worth losing the +30 buff for for that brief period of time your moving +15 second CD.

Personally I 'tolerate' WM and cast times on skills but make no mistake it is not more fun because of it and if anything it is less fun, once have some decent parser data and decent size sample pool if the DPS output has not been improved enough from what it was prior to these latest changes then I may too drop the class in favor of playing another. At the moment I enjoy the class less with these changes but it's tolerable, I do however lack sufficient evidence to decide whether SE have ruined it completely for me personally in terms of DPS parser information with big enough sample size to determine if is issue with just myself, just some people or if it is continued problems related to the class design itself for all.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Why is it almost every single time I see someone making snarky comments about bards in threads like these, a quick glance to the side shows they are not a bard...how easy it is to be snarky when it is not their class with the design and implementation issues being talked about yet if shoe was on the other foot they would not be happy about people taking pot shots at their class when they have issues with their own.

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Yeah! It's not like you can, you know, change classes with a button or anything

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Originally Posted by Aikaal

I'm sure they'll change Bards around. I don't play that job personally so I have no idea what I,m saying but Wanderer's Minuet sounds like a 180 degree playstyle shift.

In the meantime~
http://i.imgur.com/40vKYod.png

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See, this lv60 thurmaturge has got the right idea!

Silly fake bards who like being casters now with all their MP management and rotations and GCD-length cast times and terrible mobility and super sacrificial mechanics that punish them when they screw up

yeah that sounds just like how bard is now, i sure wish square would stop 180ing my class around

its almost like i have to git gud or something, haha silly square, as if

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Why is it almost every single time I see someone making snarky comments about bards in threads like these, a quick glance to the side shows they are not a bard...how easy it is to be snarky when it is not their class with the design and implementation issues being talked about yet if shoe was on the other foot they would not be happy about people taking pot shots at their class when they have issues with their own.

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Oh boy, I played WAR in 2.0, which is nowhere close to the state BRD is at the moment, and never whined about it once.

I was confident that SE would see that the job needed improvements, just like I knew SE would adjust WM so that its purpose and overall utilisation becomes clearer / easier to use as a stance.

And they did today.

You don't like being forced to "freeze" to ensure your maximum dps output. I can understand that. But let's be honest, all jobs have "their own burden" : melee need positioning (rear/side) that is trouble on some fights, mages have a cast time that requires no movement for a period of time (on AoE heavy fights, it's a pain).

Bard had no trouble at all; only Bard. And they had / have a secured spot as being the only support job, bringing unique mp/tp regen and more magic damage (before MCH appeared).

Now, you can still dps "on the go", but if you want to optimize your damage, you have your "own" problem to deal with, which is fair in my opinion.

You can still move and dps on the go.

But you won't be at max dps if you do so the whole fight ... which is fair if you look at the other dps jobs.

You just have been spoiled for more than a year, and now it's hard to get back with the other dps in the "you need skill to dps correctly" department.

But once you've mastered this new stance, I think you'll be proud and happy that you can now show some skills and deal serious damage over "random bards".

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

You don't like being forced to "freeze" to ensure your maximum dps output. I can understand that. But let's be honest, all jobs have "their own burden" : melee need positioning (rear/side) that is trouble on some fights, mages have a cast time that requires no movement for a period of time (on AoE heavy fights, it's a pain).

Bard had no trouble at all; only Bard. And they had / have a secured spot as being the only support job, bringing unique mp/tp regen and more magic damage (before MCH appeared).

Now, you can still dps "on the go", but if you want to optimize your damage, you have your "own" problem to deal with, which is fair in my opinion.

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Bard is not a support job. Healers can do DPS with DPS abilities, are they no longer healers because of this? Until there is a support slot, BRD is not a support. This game has a trinity, and support isn't part of it, which is why almost every single job has support abilities, not just BRD. BRD is however the only job that gets a penalty for using its support abilities.

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Originally Posted by Panasync

Bard is not a support job. Healers can do DPS with DPS abilities, are they no longer healers because of this? Until there is a support slot, BRD is not a support. This game has a trinity, and support isn't part of it, which is why almost every single job has support abilities, not just BRD. BRD is however the only job that gets a penalty for using its support abilities.

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This.

As for the update, it is a start. But SE really needs to take a good long look at what this job is supposed to be. If the really want us so far behind other dps while being penalized for our support even farther, they need to give us a role for it. If they want us to be dps first, support second like every other dps in the game, they need to treat us like it and fix WD scaling and other factors that leave our dps so low.

Edit: This is also why I'm very much against a "Hybrid" role.

Bard is a support dps. You may not queue as a support job....but we are support. I mean for FFS, we have Wardern's Paeon, Foe's Requiem, Mage's Ballad and Army Paeon, each of those are game changers. Most of the other dps classes "support" buff themselves on top of the party, the only exclusion is ninja goad. What other class has a prevention esuna ?

Healer comparison doesn't work, we healers have those abilities to help us solo dps (fact: you can't heal things to death this isn't levi ex), if we use them in dungeon it's a bonus we don't have to.

Se themselves have said Bard is a support dps type.

Before anyone checks my lodestone I have level a 57 Bard. I know the class and have raided with it and plan to go to level 60 with it.

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Originally Posted by Noira

Bard is a support dps. You may not queue as a support job....but we are support. I mean for FFS, we have Wardern's Paeon, Foe's Requiem, Mage's Ballad and Army Paeon, each of those are game changers. Most of the other dps classes "support"...

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No, we are not a support. Where in the trinity that SE says this game is defined by is the support or hybrid support DPS? Show me where, otherwise you have nothing. The healer comparison does work, Cleric+DPS spells could easily be a solo or small party only thing, they're not, they were not designed to be simply for solo situations. If that was the case I'm sure they would have been tweaked once healers were expected to start doing DPS. They've only been given more tools to do so.

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Originally Posted by Noira

Bard is a support dps. You may not queue as a support job....but we are support.

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So it is ok for parties to suffer because the DF strings together 2 or 4 "support"? No other dps has this problem with stacking.

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Originally Posted by Noira

I mean for FFS, we have Wardern's Paeon, Foe's Requiem, Mage's Ballad and Army Paeon, each of those are game changers. Most of the other dps classes "support" buff themselves on top of the party, the only exclusion is ninja goad. What other class has a prevention esuna?

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None. They just get party-wide crit buffs, enmity reduction-redirection tools, one of the better party-wide dps increasers (TA), abilities that reduce incoming damage (E4E, virus, dragon kick), abilities that increase damage of a certain type (slashing, etc). The best part is some of these aren't even hindered when rotated.

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Originally Posted by Noira

Healer comparison doesn't work, we healers have those abilities to help us solo dps (fact: you can't heal things to death this isn't levi ex), if we use them in dungeon it's a bonus we don't have to.

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And yet they were still out dpsing the "support" dps in actual content.

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Originally Posted by Noira

Se themselves have said Bard is a support dps type.

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Then it needs to be it's own role, to prevent parties being hindered by the DF stacking "support" instead of dps.

EDIT: At this point I'd almost rather them give me the conjurer sub back, the healer lb3 and shift me to full support. This personality disorder with them changing things for dps but not enough is getting silly.

The dps abilities we have is to keep up with the damage of the enemies scaling. Cleric stance is for primarily for soloing we DO NOT have to dps. Second it's to keep up with the consistency of the FF lore, Most whm have always had stone 3 (though named different)....like I said you cannot heal something to death. How would you progress in the story as healer without dps abilities ?

The fact that bard job abilities is mostly support abilities tells you a support type..It's not like other classes where ONE ability is an off handed support type. It doesn't have to be said it's implied.

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Originally Posted by Noira

Bard is a support dps. You may not queue as a support job....but we are support.

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Correction it is a DPS with support. DPS first and foremost, support second. It is not a support with DPS, that is what the healing classes are. You want to make me support first, DPS second then give me the ability to raise the dead during combat and heal their wounds. Interesting how so many bards are being excluded from endgame content or being insulted during runs in such content since HW came out with the excuse always being not enough DPS as opposed to not enough songs. It is a fact a bard is DPS first, support second so don't waste time trying to argue differently. Your job requires you to output as much DPS as possible and occasionally throw out a song for the group only when needed.

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Originally Posted by Noira

The dps abilities we have is to keep up with the damage of the enemies scaling. Cleric stance is for primarily for soloing we DO NOT have to dps. Second it's to keep up with the consistency of the FF lore, Most whm have always had stone 3 (though named different)....like I said you cannot heal something to death. How would you progress in the story as healer without dps abilities ?

The fact that bard job abilities is mostly support abilities tells you a support type..It's not like other classes where ONE ability is an off handed support type. It doesn't have to be said it's implied.

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No, you do have to in upcoming content. SE themselves have said they were shocked healers were doing dps in coil and have taken that into account this time around. And even if you don't have to, when you do you sure do it a hell of a lot better than the "support" dps.

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Originally Posted by Noira

The dps abilities we have is to keep up with the damage of the enemies scaling. Cleric stan...

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Again, I stated this in my last reply, if they were only solo abilities, they would be unusable outside of solo or small party situations. That's not the case is it?

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Originally Posted by Noira

The fact that bard job abilities is mostly support abilities tells you a support type...

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I'm sorry how many support abilities are needed before you're a support? 3? 4? Guess what, probably more than half of the DPS are now support jobs. The support abilities Bard is given has the caveat of lowered DPS potential BUILT-IN. That is how they balanced it, we'll give you support abilities, but if you use or abuse them you can't do proper DPS. There is a trade off, the class is not a support class. Bard in FFXI is a support class, Bard in FFXIV is a DPS class with some support abilities, like the rest of the jobs.

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Originally Posted by Panasync

Bard is not a support job. etc etc etc

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You are a support job, the old Healing LB was a big hint at this. If you think you are just another DPS, think again.

Every dps has support abilities that regen TP / MP / add 10% magic damage for extended amount of time ?

Face it, other dps jobs support the team for like what ? 15 sec ? Mantra (Monk) / Crit buff (Drg) etc ? That's far from what BRDs can bring to the table.

Not to mention mages like WHM / AST need a stance to DPS, and they also lose something for that : their Healing power (see ? just like BRD lose dps for songs).

And you can use Requiem without losing anything. Songs can be used during downtime too (mob jumps, aoe evasion phases, etc) where you lose almost no dps.

You have a spot in most raids just because of this, and you curse it ?

I'd remove songs altogether, and give those to another job, I bet BRDs would whine even more, no ?

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

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Your argument is so full of holes I am not even sure if it is worth arguing with you about it...One thing I did find amusing and will thank you for is your trying to use the 'old' LB as an excuse. A LB that SE admits was not the right decision and has fixed by giving us a DPS LB. As for the rest I will point you in the direction of my post #613 above because I am beginning to get tired of arguing the same thing over and over with people such as yourself.

We have support abilities to help others and you might be able to fall back on the excuse of the bard lore having a support style description however...in the real world of in-game mechanics and role responsibility we are a DPS first and support second, not a support first with DPS second. Likewise we are not a support only or DPS only but it is a fact that we are a DPS first and foremost with added 'secondary' support features. If your not playing it as DPS first, support second you really are playing bard badly.

They have helped bards do at least a little better DPS, but eh whatever. The playstyle that I loved for 2 years is no longer viable with them ramming this bow wizard playstyle down our throats. I'm just going to finish levelling a different job, bow wizard is not fun.

*Hangs his Artemis on the wall, as the song in his heart dies out*

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

You are a support job, the old Healing LB was a big hint at this. If you think you are just another DPS, think again.

Every dps has support abilities that regen TP / MP / add 10% magic damage for extended amount of time ?

Face it, other dps jobs support the team for like what ? 15 sec ? Mantra (Monk) / Crit buff (Drg) etc ? That's far from what BRDs can bring to the table.

Not to mention mages like WHM / AST need a stance to DPS, and they also lose something for that : their Healing power (see ? just like BRD lose dps for songs).

And you can use Requiem without losing anything. Songs can be used during downtime too (mob jumps, aoe evasion phases, etc) where you lose almost no dps.

You have a spot in most raids just because of this, and you curse it ?

I'd remove songs altogether, and give those to another job, I bet BRDs would whine even more, no ?

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FFXIV existed before ARR :rolleyes: , at the time BRD was more support than in ARR , hell they could even crossclas with conjurer for heals and raise , on the transition to ARR , SE gave the BRD the healer LB for that reason (or lazyness because creating a LB just for 1 job was too much) , plenty of other reasons , but hey "think again".


other dps suppor the team permantly too , the slashing, piercing and blunt debuff are permanent if the dps keeps doing his rotation (as he should be doing) nin is the only 1 that is forced to drop the best rotation to keep it.

is bard support permanent? FAR FROM IT , u know that all the songs drain MP? and MP is finite....even then singing MP TP song when isnt needed is just losing 15% just because.

WHM got nukes in 3.0 to help it dpsing on raids , and SE expect healers to dps in raids ,is a given now. they lose healing power on Cleric stance? yes of course , else healers will be OP.

but BRD/MCH arent doing insane dmg on the "Dps" stance , far from it.

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

You are a support job, the old Healing LB was a big hint at this...

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Guess what, they took that Healer LB away from us.

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

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Your archer is 14. You don't even have the job unlocked.
No wonder it sounds like you're talking out your a**.
Go level it up and gain some insight into the mechanics of the job, THEN post.

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

You are a support job, the old Healing LB was a big hint at this. If you think you are just another DPS, think again.

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The old LB was a holdover from their support status in 1.0, which went away with the conjurer sub. It's not really surprising that they didn't want to make a new LB just for brd when all the others within a role shared the same one. And they changed it with the inclusion of another job that would potentially use a ranged dps LB.

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

Face it, other dps jobs support the team for like what ? 15 sec ? Mantra (Monk) / Crit buff (Drg) etc ? That's far from what BRDs can bring to the table.

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All of said buffs suffer no hinderance from being rotated (4 drgs have no problem rotating keeping crit buffs up over half the time, same w/ nin and TA). If you have 4 Brds in party, most utility goes out the window. Not to mention that with the exception of Foe's we have a damage penalty built into the songs. Better buff, more risk while using it. Still doesn't excuse the base dps loss compared to other ranged dps.

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

Not to mention mages like WHM / AST need a stance to DPS, and they also lose something for that : their Healing power

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So do we, and we lose mobility.

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

You have a spot in most raids just because of this, and you curse it ?

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We have a spot, any other dps in the roster could have up to 3.

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

I'd remove songs altogether, and give those to another job, I bet BRDs would whine even more, no ?

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I'd love to be a Ranger, why thank you.

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

Snippy

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Be easier to break the class in half and give people ranger and bard. I dont see how "support" dps can ever be truly balanced within the system they want to use to define partys. Being a glorified battery is great and all well and good until you stick 4 glorified batterys into one group expect it to somehow perform anywhere close to as well as so called "pure dps".

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Originally Posted by LambLich

Be easier to break the class in half and give people ranger and bard. I dont see how "support" dps can ever be truly balanced within the system they want to use to define partys. Being a glorified battery is great and all well and good until you stick 4 glorified batterys into one group expect it to somehow perform anywhere close to as well as so called "pure dps".

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This might be the best way tbh. To add to this, I've played quite a few games where Bard was a full healer and it was a lot of fun. Songs that stack HoTs, tons of buffs, etc.

I understand the debate of Bard a 'support' vs 'dps 1st'. Not fussed about that. If you play Bard right, then you can pump out great damage whilst providing great support and utility. What DOES set Bard apart is that, ontop of the utility, we have freedom of movement. Songs and movement are what makes us more unique to the 'pure dps' classes out there. What grinds my nugget is that Bard is being forced into Minuet whether you like it or not; if you don't, you lose a hefty bonus to dps. LUCKILY the most recent change means the instant cast can now be spammed to Ishgard and back.
Eg Minuet up, pump out dps. Got an aoe inc? Unpop Minuet, move whilst autoattacking, once you're safe, pop Minuet.
Still a bit wizard ranger for me, but let's make the best of a cruddy situation.
Note, our songs are not hindered by Minuet, folks. We can sing til the primals come home.
I was upset about Minuet existing when it was first announced, but nobody likes change to their beloved classes.
/soothe

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Originally Posted by KisaMystfell

What DOES set Bard apart is that, ontop of the utility, we have freedom of movement. Songs and movement are what makes us more unique to the 'pure dps' classes out there. What grinds my nugget is that Bard is being forced into Minuet whether you like it or not; if you don't, you lose a hefty bonus to dps. LUCKILY the most recent change means the instant cast can now be spammed to Ishgard and back

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You can't do that though, with the inclusion of the 15 second cooldown you will end up without the DPS buff WM provides for 15 seconds whether your out of danger or not.

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Originally Posted by LambLich

Be easier to break the class in half and give people ranger and bard. I dont see how "support" dps can ever be truly balanced within the system they want to use to define partys. Being a glorified battery is great and all well and good until you stick 4 glorified batterys into one group expect it to somehow perform anywhere close to as well as so called "pure dps".

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I agree with this, whenever there is more than one bard or bard/machinist in single party I know it is often just matter of time before other members whine about the DPS output and hitting DPS checks just because of the presence of more than one of them in the group. If have more than one bard in a group and the group fails a DPS check, regardless of if the bards performed very well they will be the ones blamed and insulted, one or both kicked or ends in a vote abandon. This might not be as big a problem in PF or statics but it is a major problem in DF plus you still get PF groups who exclude bards and machinists just because of the class and not ability to play it far too often. It's becoming very annoying as a person who mains a bard.

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Originally Posted by ChloeGrace

Go level it up and gain some insight into the mechanics of the job, THEN post.

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Yeah because playing Bard will get me to understand basic mechanics a lot better and why you seem to fail at giving any type of valid argument here ?

I can talk about all mechanics in the game, it has nothing to do with "levelling a class to 60" ... how dense are you really ?

Wanna talk about the fact that you aren't BRD 60, didn't clear Ravana EX or Alexander yet ? Now who has no experience ? Certainly not me ... I play with BRDs 60 from FC during those events and saw them perform, you just come here to bitch for no reason.

Can't talk about the fact that AST's RNG based cards require adjustements because my AST is 41 ?

BRDs whine all the time ... over nothing usually, and here it's all the same : you gain a dps boost that requires a static position, you whine. You would have had side / back positioning, it would have been the same.

What you want, is an easy DPS class, with no penalty (ever), and still be top tier DPS, while being highly desired for being the best utility DPS (even though you curse it for some reason).

Sorry, can't have that for now. Deal with it.

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Originally Posted by LambLich

Being a glorified battery is great and all well and good until you stick 4 glorified batterys into one group expect it to somehow perform anywhere close to as well as so called "pure dps".

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That's where job synergy enters the ring.

The real pb is this :

"BUT I WANT TO RUN AROUND ENDLESSLY SPAMMING SKILLS WITH NO CAST TIME AND DO DAMAGE LIKE A DRAGOON BUT WITH NO DRAWBACKS AND ZERO RISK WHY DO I NEED TO THINK ABOUT MY ROTATION NOW?????"
- every bad bard since HW launch-

If you have 15 seconds of no mechanics, you can drop into WM for that bonus damage then drop it the instant you need to move.

Essentially, most bards are complaining because the game is giving you an incentive to stand still rather than run around pointlessly. You can now turn WM off easily whenever you have to move to dodge or handle mechanics and continue dps'ing in the 2.0 style; which is still more than other classes can do. How does this affect the way you play Bard unless you played it redundantly to begin with; running around aimlessly for no reason ?

My personal complaints?

BRD = wannabee MCH with WM. Bad class design, copy pasted skill, doesn't fit the kit.
I don't like the playstyle of WM, yet the other option of a comparable class comes with a copy pasted skill instead of offering different options. Just this fact alone that they didn't bother designing the BRD and MCH to be different and rather tried to make them as much as possible the same just rubs me the wrong way.

Heck I can play Bow Wizard np that isn't my real issue, the fact that the class is badly designed and on top of it partially copy pasted is. Every class has a kit that works together and then there is archer the class that branches into two jobs, bard and bow wizard. Both jobs don't work well separately where the bard has been nerfed into the ground to make bow wizard more apealing and the bow wizard doesn't have the parts that made the bard have an optimized flow to it.

People are also comparing MCH to BRD and telling they'r in the same spot. Well they'r not. MCH is a case of l2p a new class and a hate it or like it new gameplay. BRD was one of the most liked dps classes and just straight up got this new gameplay shoved up our throat. Obviously some might like it, but those same people most likely would have liked MCH after a bit of practice too. Why couldn't the BRD actually get creative skills? I don't see the melee getting 5 copy pasted skills from each other either. What about BLM & SMN their new skills are not a copy paste of each other...

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

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Well what I want is 1 of 3 things:

1. Bard is declared a DPS w/ support like the rest of the DPS currently in game. What this means is they keep the DPS designation, WD and other factors that are currently lowering DPS are brought up to bring Bard dps about equal to a Caster if WM is kept up full time. Not equal to Melee, and not when WM is taken off. If this means an increase in the penalty for using a song so be it and/or moving Sidewinder into WM to buff it, you guys can whine when I refuse to babysit the other DPS who is dying for no reason or the healer who is unable to manage MP on his/her own. Enough changes are made to the Bard kit (which may include making the songs weaker) to allow stacking more than one Bard in a similar situation as all the other DPS (utility goes down but uptime of the utility they do have is brought up; Think TA or Battle Litany, more DRG or NIN increase uptime of the buff but less buff diversity since they all have the same ones). It sucks learning one playstyle until 52, and another after it, so I'd move WM down to 30 (as it's not going away, sorry some other Bards). May also drop songs completely and rename the job Ranger, as that appears easier for some people to have as a DPS then a "Bard."

2. Bard is declared support first. DPS is either unaffected or lowered, and a support role is introduced in order to prevent stacking support for dps checks. You will have to wait for a Bard for every damn dungeon you do unless you premake it. Light party is now either 5 people (tank dps x2 support healer) or rebalanced to (tank dps support healer) and Full party is now (tank x2 healer x2 dps x3 support). Content is balance around requiring one support for everything, so don't you dare go without one. Changes to the Bard kit are made to focus on Support, which could including taking buffs away from other classes/jobs. Support LB implemented or Ranged LB lowered to last on damage and never used. May keep the Bow or could potentially trade for a Harp. Think Songweaver from Aion, quite a bit more support but a little magic dps, but even weaker dps or even FFXI Bard rotations.

3. Bard is even more radically changed and is moved into a healer role, like I mentioned previously. CNJ sub is returned, as is the Healer LB3. May also sub another mage to really lower that dps (healer dps is bonus, right guys? /s). Minuet changed to a healer stance to make up for the way Cure formulas are implemented, and moved down to lvl 30. Archer would require a complete rework to healer, or dropping a class completely and changing the main hand to Harp. Songs changed to HoT affects and more support-based utility. Think Bard from Aura Kingdom or Eden Eternal.

TL;DR Any job placed into a role in the trinity should be treated the same way within that role, not this half-assed hybrid stuff. Most of this could also apply to MCH (Even making it a support/healer like Flintlock in FFTA2, yuck; and use MCH interchangeably with Bard everywhere above). Options 2 and 3 could also take the DPS from Bard and give them to a Ranger or Musketeer. But every update what they have tried to do is to push Bard farther from "support" (removing CNJ sub, changing the LB, etc; and giving support freely across the other jobs) so I don't really understand why they don't go all in on it. This is of course the extreme examples, and I'm sure all of what I'm asking would never be implemented, just the spirit of each option. And I'm still not asking for top dps, just to be treated fairly within our role, or to change it.

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Originally Posted by MrYaah

Its just a super standard krietor opener since its without minuet on.

HE + RS + BL > SS > B4B + IR > WB > dex pot > vb > barrage + sidewinder > heavyshot > flaming arrow + bl or repelling shot > hs > you get the idea.

From then on I just played it exactly like 2.0 bard except you make sure not to barrage anything other than heavy shot and you try to not cry when you think about how much weaker new barrage is than old barrage.

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I spent the night tying to figure out how you sustained 980 over 5 mins with just party/food/pot but I still can't get it because it simply drops off the 1K mark too fast D:

The problem with new BRD playstyle seems to be entirely down to the cast times during WM. The lack of movement isn't a big deal. It's that juggling the sheer number of oGCDs we have whilst only being able to fit in 1 between each shot is an impossible task.

Other casting jobs don't have the same number of oGCDs to keep on CD like BRD.

If they gave us some way of keeping on top of our oGCDs I'd be happy. Either through removing the casting times, allowing us to trigger oGCDs during casting or consolidating our buffs somehow during WM mode.

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

-snip-

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tl; dr: No idea how this job is played, but STFU and suck it up.

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Originally Posted by Kaith

The problem with new BRD playstyle seems to be entirely down to the cast times during WM. The lack of movement isn't a big deal. It's that juggling the sheer number of oGCDs we have whilst only being able to fit in 1 between each shot is an impossible task.

Other casting jobs don't have the same number of oGCDs to keep on CD like BRD.

If they gave us some way of keeping on top of our oGCDs I'd be happy. Either through removing the casting times, allowing us to trigger oGCDs during casting or consolidating our buffs somehow during WM mode.

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I'd argue it stems more from SE more than anything. Putting a job in a DPS role but considering it support is doing the job no favors and is hard to balance around. It's really why I'm against Hybrid jobs, there are by definition weaker than the Pure jobs (or why would you take the pure job), but must be capable enough to replace one. That's what we have now, a DPS/Support hybrid that isn't capable of replacing more than 1 "Pure" dps in content. WM is a little slapped on, it does synergize a bit better with pre-50 abilities than MCH I'd say(having a WM ability affect the DoTs for example), but the oGCD thing is a pain.

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Originally Posted by ChloeGrace

tl; dr: No idea how this job is played, but STFU and suck it up.

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TLDR or can't read ?

Still nothing to say, got pawned hard, had to resort to good ol' "STFU" as ultimate defense system ?

L

O

L

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

Alexander patch notes would like to have a word with you.

Casting times are no more mate.

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That's casting time to put up WM, not the casting time on every WS under WM. Probably part of the reason you aren't being taken seriously by anyone but me. And before you reply to that, yes I answered every one of your posts, and broke down what I want from the Job unlike the "STFU you don't have Bard lvld" people. I typically pre-read for a job I intend to start, so I can join in the conversation before lvling it, so that argument isn't a good one if you have researched. I don't like attacking people like that, so I instead talked about every point you made.

Off-topic Edit: While we're on casting times, I'd very much like the animation changed to actually nocking an arrow and drawing the bow back, and getting rid of the hiss.

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Originally Posted by Arrik

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Yeah misread his comment as "casting times" as in "downtime to put up WM", which is no more as of today's patch. 5:43am, cut me some slack, but quick to react on this anyway.

I don't worry about being "taken seriously", the whole community kinda thinks the same as I do :

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Essentially, most bards are complaining because the game is giving you an incentive to stand still rather than run around pointlessly. You can now turn WM off easily whenever you have to move to dodge or handle mechanics and continue dps'ing in the 2.0 style; which is still more than other classes can do. How does this affect the way you play Bard unless you played it redundantly to begin with; running around aimlessly for no reason ?

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lol there is so much hate and negative energy going in here you can almost summon an angry bard primal with it. This wasn't even as bad as smn threads...

/just passing by don't kill me pls