The WOL and Mass Murder

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Originally Posted by Rokke

The WHM quests had nothing to do with damage vs. healing. The little girl wanted to heal using her own aether instead of drawing from nature. As that is lethal, you spend the entirety of the early quest line showing her that you can borrow form nature without damaging it :I

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I'm calling shenanigans, I don't remember the exact quote but Sylvie doesn't even realize she's using her own aether until much later in the questline and it IS that she refuses to learn the attack branch of conjury. She outright says she doesn't want to hurt and only wants to heal, and it isn't until she uses Raise on a Wood Wailer and faints that E-Sumi-Yan tell her her mother was the same and died from consuming her own aether.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

I'm calling shenanigans, I don't remember the exact quote but Sylvie doesn't even realize she's using her own aether until much later in the questline and it IS that she refuses to learn the attack branch of conjury. She outright says she doesn't want to hurt and only wants to heal, and it isn't until she uses Raise on a Wood Wailer and faints that E-Sumi-Yan tell her her mother was the same and died from consuming her own aether.

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She wants to heal but she doesn't want to draw that aether from nature because she thinks that "using" nature's aether = you are hurting it. That is why she refused to learn about working with nature period and also why she wanted to only use her inherent "power" (ie. her aether).

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

That dirty part of the job was not only relegated to the others but actively kept a secret from us until they had no choice but to reveal it to us.

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This isn't really true. Thancred did not have to tell us about it post Ifrit, he did because doing otherwise wasn't exactly fair to us. I feel like we could have never found out if he didn't bother us because it never actually comes up again, at least that I recall.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

She outright says she doesn't want to hurt and only wants to heal, and it isn't until she uses Raise on a Wood Wailer and faints that E-Sumi-Yan tell her her mother was the same and died from consuming her own aether.

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I put this more on E-Sumi-Yan being a terrible teacher more than Sylvie's motivations. E-Sumi-Yan keeps telling us why Sylvie is in danger from using her own aether, while never actually mentioning the reasons to Sylvie herself until the revelatory quest.

It's possible E-Sumi-Yan told Sylvie offscreen, but she acts like the onscreen explanation is the very first she's heard of this, so I have doubts.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

she refuses to learn the attack branch of conjury.

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Because unless you know Red magic, you can't use your own aether to use stone and air attacks. As she's only barely a CNJ who refuses to borrow from nature, she locks herself out of those branches of the art, but it is not because she refuses to use offensive abilities.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

This isn't really true. Thancred did not have to tell us about it post Ifrit, he did because doing otherwise wasn't exactly fair to us.

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That's arguing semantics at this point.

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I feel like we could have never found out if he didn't bother us because it never actually comes up again, at least that I recall.

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It's so unmentioned that Y'shtola actually spews nonsense during the Warring Triad quest, saying that we knew all along and even helped with it!

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Tried and failed sure.

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And we dont even know if they are not still searching for a cure for this but in the mean time they cant just keep these people alive, at least not in a bigger amount. Also do we even know if they tell the relatives the truth? Eorzea is a harsh place to live in where death is probably a common thing. Who knows if they are even telling them that they had to be killed? Maybe they just tell them that they fell against the primals but fought bravely?

Yes people like to blame others for a death and maybe some will resent the ones that did it (which is not us btw..so still not sure why this is even a topic) but it does not change the fact that them being alive is too dangerous. I also believe that people might be understanding too, especially since they do live in this world unlike us who just play it. They might know of the danger and might have accepted that they will lose someone through this.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

But what could be more beliveable is the idea of the WoL choosing war with Garlemald over peace out of personal hatred, and dragging Eorzea along with. They’ve been fighting Garlean troops for years without a sweat, who is to say that maybe, with their echo, they’re that prejudiced and overconfident enough to light a potential olive branch ablaze? If such a war is seen as more a spat between two echo users, would the rest of society view them so highly once the body bags start rolling in?

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You mean the same WoL that helps an Garlean soldier after they just witness the shooting of the tower in Ala Mhigo? Or the same WoL that gives people like Laurentius a chance to change even though he helped Garlemald? Or the one that works with Cid or helps out a group of Garlean artists which also have pureblood Garleans on them? Or the one that goes into an alliance with Regula? We as the WoL do often give people second chances even though they dont deserve it and we on top of that even try to reason with enemies from time to time. I mean we completely stopped another blood bath by talking to that one conspricted group.

The WoL does not go out of it way to kill soliders for no reason at all. They also go out of its way to make peace in a 1000 year ongoing war. They try to save their friends too. They also completely held themselves back in 4.2. So sorry they either have to be pulled into a trap with wrong information to start something like that or they would be completely out of character. Because the WoL would never ever just start a complete war with one of the biggest nations in the world for nothing but personal hatred...which we also dont really show...(not sure where you get the personal hatred part from)

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Originally Posted by Alleo

The WoL does not go out of it way to kill soliders for no reason at all. They also go out of its way to make peace in a 1000 year ongoing war. They try to save their friends too. They also completely held themselves back in 4.2. So sorry they either have to be pulled into a trap with wrong information to start something like that or they would be completely out of character. Because the WoL would never ever just start a complete war with one of the biggest nations in the world for nothing but personal hatred...which we also dont really show...(not sure where you get the personal hatred part from)

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I AM NOT SAYING IT WOULD BE TRUE. I am saying it would be believeable. How said belief could be set up is the stuff of plots and schemes. Not everyone is privy to the truth of every last deed we do.

I can understand the disconnect people have that the WoL, despite killing quite a lot of people, is still trusted by strangers and given a considerable amount of trust. I honestly don’t feel like continuing the msq, or at least not gung ho anymore to resume playing this sort of character.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

It's so unmentioned that Y'shtola actually spews nonsense during the Warring Triad quest, saying that we knew all along and even helped with it!

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If she did, I don't recall that. Either way Thancred didn't have to tell us, regardless on your semantics comment.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

I AM NOT SAYING IT WOULD BE TRUE. I am saying it would be believeable. How said belief could be set up is the stuff of plots and schemes. Not everyone is privy to the truth of every last deed we do.

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No, it wouldn't. In the few times the WoL is given a voice and shows emotion, there is no indication of hatred for the Garlean Empire. They are an aggressor to Eorzea, and we fight them in that context. If they were to abandon their conquest, we'd stop fighting them. Our greater concern is the Asciancs.

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I can understand the disconnect people have that the WoL, despite killing quite a lot of people, is still trusted by strangers and given a considerable amount of trust. I honestly don’t feel like continuing the msq, or at least not gung ho anymore to resume playing this sort of character.

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There is not disconnect. None. The problem is with and your overly simplistic morality and naive idealism that killing people is always murder and is always bad. The WoL is not a "murderhobo". We don't go around Eorzea, Doma, or Ala Mhigo rampantly slaughtering people for no reason other than our own sadistic intentions. (That's Zenos). We have a mission, which is to stop the Ascians. In that regard, we've defeated the primals multiple times, been fundamental in freeing both Doma and Ala Mhigo, ended the war between the Dravians and Ishgard, rescued and freed countless people, and effectively stopped the Garlean invasion. The strangers trust us because we keep proving to them time and time again that we are worthy of their trust because the story is written such that everything we do, we have done in the service of Eorzea for the benefit of her people. We are constantly putting our live and sanity on the line for these people. This whole thing is like a bad CW drama in which the protagonist refuses to do what needs to be done. There are times that the only answer is to kill someone, or be killed. That is NOT murder.

Glad someone said it. People really overthought this to go thinking that we're some kind of crazed killer throwing ourselves into conflict repeatedly.

We fight because we're strong enough to, and because we care enough to do it for others that can't. We didn't spark a war, but where there was an opportunity to help an oppressed people start a revolution, we helped. We helped because we saw firsthand how bad things were for them and we weren't okay with that. We ended the Dragonsong war because WE discovered the lie and betrayal it was built upon. We defend Eorzea from the Garleans who aspire to be the Allagan empire of this day and age, and initially took it upon themselves to "save the savages from themselves". And in the process we've even met and befriended 3 Garleans, several dragons including the father of dragons, beast tribes, and people all over.

Not sure where the logic breaks down, but that sounds heroic, not psychopathic.