Tanks that think they are DPS, just stop...

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Originally Posted by Yorumi

No I actually didn't ignore it at all, you just didn't grasp the point. Essentially what you said is anything beyond a tank's 1,2,3 combo and cooldowns is just extra and not part of their job. For a dps anything short of using all their gcd's to maximize dps is considered bad. I would say the job of any class is to maximize gcd's for best performance. You wouldn't say the job of a dps is done if he's hitting his 1,2,3 combo with cooldowns, yet you said exactly that about tanks and implied that dpsing after that is optional and extra. So why the double standard?

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I'll point you to a statement I said in the eaxct same message. You seem to have ignored that part.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

the job hasn't changed one bit ever since early 2.0. Tank and Spank shit, spank harder if the tanking part is only making up for 10% of your attention.

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Hey look, I totally did say that tanks should optimize their rotation for dps once the tanking part (aka 1-2-3 hurr durr I got hate now) is over. There is no double standard. Tanks doing 1-2-3 all day long are bad. mediocre at best if they use their CDs in a sorta optimized way as to relieve healing stress. Average tanks will do dps combo once hate is secured in tank stance in case of shit happening. Good tanks will drop tank stance whenever they can without putting stress on healing for no reason. Excellent tanks (in excellent groups) will pretty much stay in dps stance forever since hate isn't an issue and the group actually knows how to mitigate shit as a group duty and not only "tank hits CD and healer heals" (OT uses a support CD (poor WAR), dps uses addle or physical equivalent, pallissade, apoc, etc...).

Optimizing one's rotation is part of the job, and I am not sure where you saw me saying people shouldn't optimize their rotation as tanks

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Originally Posted by KMFDM_Kid2000

I'd love for you to point out where I said newbies should wear all STR accessories in the duty finder. Go on, I'll wait. In the mean time, learn what this is.

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OP is saying that STR meta tanks should gtfo and stop being bad (their opinion, mine is irrelevant on the subject). You're saying they spread misinformation and are confusing new players, implicitly saying that new player should conform to the STR tank meta. That is NOT a goot idea in any regards. Even if that may not be your intention, you are confusing newbies out of the intended role SE would have tanks going, in favor of a player-made optimization exploiting design oversights.

SE should just go back to VIT being tanks main stat (damage included), and stop forcing people to choose between 2 sets when all other jobs just use BiS all day every day.

Or else you'll always have people ranting when a wipe occurs, that tanks aren't geared properly (be it STR or VIT, doesn't matter), and that the wipe occured because of him (buster / dps check).

I'm ok with having to choose between 2 sets (or more) ... but not when only tanks get to choose and get flamed for it ... especially when it feels like a design flaw (270 acc. really ?)

Or, heck, just add STR to all tank accessories and prevent all "pure STR"/dps acc. to be looted by tanks.

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

SE should just go back to VIT being tanks main stat (damage included), and stop forcing people to choose between 2 sets when all other jobs just use BiS all day every day.

Or else you'll always have people ranting when a wipe occurs, that tanks aren't geared properly (be it STR or VIT, doesn't matter), and that the wipe occured because of him (buster / dps check).

I'm ok with having to choose between 2 sets (or more) ... but not when only tanks get to choose and get flamed for it ... especially when it feels like a design flaw (270 acc. really ?)

Or, heck, just add STR to all tank accessories and prevent all "pure STR"/dps acc. to be looted by tanks.

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I cant agree more, safety tanks will just deal way less damage anyway cause theyll spam enmity combo and nothing else, other tanks will be able to push it further, and use secondaries to bis their damage fix. SE isnt taking the zen approach or hasnt for some time(HW drastically changing stats like parry or how ap/dex influenced parry/block rates and the mitigation theyd provide) They want to simplify this, but cant see the middle road right there.

This is outrageous, lol. Should tanks be tanks? Yes? Should tanks push for damage to help speed things up? Yes, but they aren't forced to. Aside from Gordias, if you need tanks to bust out their mediocre DPS to clear content then maybe you should find better DPS. Tanks will still do okay tank-grade DPS using their safe play style. A tank going DPS, in the grand scheme, is an extremely small improvement at a much higher risk of drastically shoring down raid damage via lost aggro or higher damage intake requiring more healing.

There's nothing wrong with huge pulls if you know what you're doing. If you're mitigating heavy damage and working to your parties' strengths then the Safety Tank will out DPS a DPS tank, but that takes experience. If I'm in a dungeon and I see a SMN in the party that knows how to rock the class then I'm going to pull hard. If the healer is half decent then I'm going to pull harder.

This narrow minded, elitist idea of living in a single play style is just as 2nd rate as the people who live only on their rotations. Know your jobs, know the content, know your party's skill levels and push their strengths as hard as they can handle to speed whatever content up to its realistic limits. A tank's priority is aggro, positioning, mitigation, and damage in that order. Tanks that stay in turtle mode are awful, and tanks that push too hard for damage are just as bad. Stay flexible and adjust to whatever the situation calls for.

Being a STR tank since 2.X, I SERIOUSLY hope they lock the STR accs while just increasing the weight of tenacity. That's all that needs to be done. Seriously... living in the past is getting old quick.

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Originally Posted by Lannybaby

Nice, so we're lazy if we play tanks the way we want to. As long as the tank is top of the enmity list, and as long as he's not getting creamed to the point that healers can't handle it, then all should be well. Any extra, over-the-top, dps should just be considered that - extra. But no, 1 2 3 tanks get insults for doing our jobs the way you don't think we should.

Honestly, I'm so tired of being told to drop grit and use more DA, then be called bad if I don't.

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I'm a bit late on this, but...

Yes, knowingly underperforming is a pretty good indicator that you're bad.

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

SE should just go back to VIT being tanks main stat (damage included), and stop forcing people to choose between 2 sets when all other jobs just use BiS all day every day.

Or else you'll always have people ranting when a wipe occurs, that tanks aren't geared properly (be it STR or VIT, doesn't matter), and that the wipe occured because of him (buster / dps check).

I'm ok with having to choose between 2 sets (or more) ... but not when only tanks get to choose and get flamed for it ... especially when it feels like a design flaw (270 acc. really ?)

Or, heck, just add STR to all tank accessories and prevent all "pure STR"/dps acc. to be looted by tanks.

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We have the choice because SE "forgot" to do an update on old gear. The reasons why they didn't retroactively locked the gear is unknown, but there's a high chance that it was either an oversight, or a technical impossibility (for example: they can't lock gear we are currently wearing. I don't know why they wouldn't be able to move that gear in our inventories though).

But it's clear with Stormblood's accessories that they don't want to give us that choice anymore, and they are actively trying to find a solution to that problem.

Regarding going back to VIT as a main stat, SE stated that they don't want to do that. Mostly because having HP and Attack Power tied to a single stat is something they have some issues with.

It's seriously stupid that 5 of our pieces of gear don't affect us at all and are a complete waste to upgrade.

If tanks aren't dps, then what are they? Do they not sit there and hit the boss or poke the adds? Such a mystery !

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Originally Posted by BlackironTarkus

It's seriously stupid that 5 of our pieces of gear don't affect us at all and are a complete waste to upgrade.

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Having more HP reduce the amount of mitigation needed to survive a Tank Buster.
Maybe you don't see the value in that, but it doesn't mean that it does nothing.