Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I don't think drop rates in FFXIV are as bad as people say they are. I pugged the mog fight for about 2 weeks and then was 7/7 for weapons. If you do whatever it is you eventually get the drops.

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Thats why its called random... I did mog for 2 weeks all i have is mog fist and mog staff and i got the fist from tokens...

i also dislike they way they expect the way they want you to get this wep... its not a challenge its just ridiculous.. less drop rates and more real chalenges. low drop rated do not equal a challenge. difficult things requiring real effort and your brain does. wonder if they will actually read this tho >.>

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Originally Posted by Altonfenri

i also dislike they way they expect the way they want you to get this wep... its not a challenge its just ridiculous.. less drop rates and more real chalenges. low drop rated do not equal a challenge. difficult things requiring real effort and your brain does. wonder if they will actually read this tho >.>

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Frankly, it's better than dealing with Dynamis LS of 32 to 50 people (or more) all working on one person's relic for six months.

Challenge is relative because no matter how hard you make a fight it's going to get beaten, unless it's some troll shit like AV or Warden. Once that happens it's a matter of keeping the players going for that carrot and the easiest way to do it is low drop rates. This game doesn't even try to disguise the fact that it's basically a casino. At least with other games they have either a token system or longer lockouts/guaranteed drops.

The seals are the easy part, at least those droprates if you do it the right way are bearable. A good guild can get someone caught up in 3 days. This AV/CC 1% droprate shit on mythril is where the true raging should come in.

Rabble rabble rabble!!!!!!!!! Angreh!!!!!! Liek a tigah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! rabble rabble rabble!!!!!!!

This man gets it.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

The seals are the easy part, at least those droprates if you do it the right way are bearable. A good guild can get someone caught up in 3 days. This AV/CC 1% droprate shit on mythril is where the true raging should come in.

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Here's where the illusion of speed comes in. It's not an overly fast process. People just assume you can grind it non stop for a few days. "Only takes 3 days to get your seals." Maybe it does if you play 16 hours a day.... and I know a few people who have been trying.

But yes everything in this game should be accessible to everyone. And the thing is if you were to make the hamlet seals, misers mythrill etc a 100% drop then it would be a grind sure. Still tedious sure. But if with that 100% drop you needed 50 seals instead of 3. Even the most casual player could come home from work and do a single hamlet/av/cc run in his 1 hour of game time that night and be guaranteed to make a little progress. At that rate of pace it could take him 2 months to get the 50 seals he needs from one of the hamlets maybe 6 months to get the seals from all 3. But at least he's guaranteed to make a little progress each time.

Simply make a small change to the weapon part and trade in a weapon and the 2 materia unmelded. Still need the same 3 items but the randomness element is removed. What you end up with is a process where players decide. Not the random system. In the example above a player may think 6 months to get my seals "ouch" and not bother. But at least any player who decides "yeah, I can do that" knows he has to do the exact same thing as everyone else and not see himself grind something hundreds of times trying to get the item he needs and seeing the people around him be get it after 10.

If they want to ensure its a long process they need to put lock outs in to stop people grinding the crap out of it all 24/7 in a week. It should be a static amount of work for everyone involved so you know that if you see someone with the same axe/staff that you have, then they put in as much time and work as you to get it and they didn't just luck out.

They just need to make some GC seals drop from the hamlets making them a bit easier to swallow the repeated runs.

Materia part is fine if you ask me it's not that terrible of odds

CC/AV chests might need some tweaking, I'm still of the opinion even if it's not directly related to the weapons giving out something for beating the run everytime is nice (GC seals or something else nice) but they also have alot of loot allready with Darklight and all. Haven't seen enough people on this step to comment really.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Here's where the illusion of spped comes in. It's not an overly fast process. People just assume you can grind it non stop for a few days. Only takes 3 days to get your seals maybe it does if you play 16 hours a day.... and I know a few people who have been trying.

But yes everything in this game should be accessible to everyone. and the thing is if you were to make the hamlet seals misers mythrill etc a 100% drop it would be a grind sure. still tedious. but if with that 100% drop you needed 50 seals instead of 3. Even the most casual player could come home from work and do a single hamlet/av/cc run in his 1 hour of game time and be guaranteed to make a little progress. At that rate of pace it could take him 2 months to get the 50 seals he needs from one of the hamlets maybe 6 months to get the seals from all 3. But at least he's guaranteed to make a little progress each time.

Simply make a small change to the weapon part and trade in a weapon and the 2 materia unmelded. Still need the same 3 items but the randomness element is removed. What you end up with is a process where players decide. not the random system. In the example a player above may think 6 months to get my seals "ouch" and not bother. But at least any player who decides yeah I can do that knows he has to do the exact same thing as everyone else and not see himself grind something hundreds of times trying to get the item he needs and seeing the people around him be get it after 10.

If they want to ensure its a long process they need to put lock outs on to stop people grinding the crap out of it all 24/7 in a week. should be a static amount of work for everyone involved so you know that if you see someone with the same axe/staff that you have they put in as much hard work as you to get it and they didn't just luck out.

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This post hits the nail on the head.

My friend is extremely lucky with hamlet seals, he's completed his before many of us have even gotten 2. (Same number of runs, mind you)
He also double melded his weapon on first try. It only took him 10 runs in AV to get his Mithril Ore, And 7 in CC to get his items.


Me on the other hand, have done literally 5 times the hamlets and still dont have 5 seals, because of crappy lucky. I've attempted to double meld 7 weapons. I will go 3/80 and then 3/58 on the AV/CC items.


There should never be a system in which if you get luck you can complete in a ridiculously fast amount of time, and if you get unlucky... never complete at all.

In the top instance, you could realistically complete the relic in a week.

While the bottom instance, you can't even fit that ALL in before 2.0

It should be a solid 2months of consistent content (2-3 hours a day). That's why people are complaining it and saying FFXI's system was better. The amount of work you put into getting the currencies was the same no matter who you were.

Gonna have to call bullshit on his mythril/salt claims unless you can screen it or he's baby jesus when it comes to luck.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

Gonna have to call bullshit on his mythril/salt claims unless you can screen it or he's baby jesus when it comes to luck.

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How can you screen it?
Sure he could screen shot his inventory that shows he has them but it's impossible to screenshot the number of runs it took him to get.

Thats just the way luck works. I once went 4 axes in 4 moogle runs sounds unbelievable. I dont have a screeny but I do have this which shows that I have owned multiple axes at one time. though the purpose of that image was just to annoy a friend who has run almost as many mogs as I have and he still hasnt got a single axe...

That's just the way luck is. which ultimately is the whole point of this thread....

Point being considering the drop rate, it's extremely doubtful. I'd be also curious what the next step of the quest is since that's as far as we know.

Extremely doubtfull for me to get 4 axes back to back. Or people to get 2/3 weapons back to back. Still happens though.

I've hq'd 2 items back to back with a 1% chance before. the probability of that is 0.01% still happens.
yet i can get 80% on twinthreads and fail to hq 5 times straight. probability of that is 0.032%

Luck. it's a pain in the ass

Someone has finished the Miser's Mythril and the Alumina Salt stages of the Relic Reborn quest? Wow, impressive! Would love to hear what we will have to do next. :)

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Originally Posted by Nero

True that... well my whole Point is that People are allready at "Step 8" of that Questline after Patch beeing out 1 Week. That makes it really "fast" imo. Of course we dont know how much more Step's we have to do with upcoming Patches, but for now i dont see any Problems with the Progress. May some people dont like it in the Forum ( 3% Poll ), but i dont think "Relics", "Legendary Weapons" or w/e you want to call it, should be obtainable by anyone. It should be a long Process for those who want to put the Time into it.

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Keep in mind that prior to the patch people had already been farming the seals from hamlet, so you have to add that time back in. Had the money to throw at the double meld, that's not time for anyone with the gil to burn it's just a matter of throwing money at the slot machine til it pays out. The only thing that actually takes people a similar amount of time/attempts is seal farming for the 25k as there's systems in place for those that are not solely random.

On the harvesting points, what they spit out is randomly generated and while you can shift the chances in your favor, not unlike a slot machine that you pay more into and get to win on all 3 rows, and even diagonals. It's still random. Not a horridly low rate random but random none the less, so basically what you get isn't relavant to the argument. You may average some number/hr but that is not what others will get. Not random means that you walk up and choose what exactly you will be harvesting that attempt.

As always never asking for shorter/easier just for equal time in == equal results out.

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Originally Posted by Nero

People bitched about how hard Crafting is.
People bitched about how hard SP-Progress is.
People bitched about how this Game is not Casual.
People bitched about how hard Garuda is ( still is? ).
People bitched about this and that and everything.. do i have to keep going?

Like i said.. there are always people which dont like a certain way, personally i think the current way is to fast.

FFXI? I have no clue how it is working now. But when i worked on my Relic ( which was like 7 Years ago ), it was also based on a lot of luck. The Currency you needed have to Drop first, and 100's didnt drop very often which you needed at least 12 of to get 3rd Stage. You needed Gil to sponsor a Run and actually a Good LS which were able to beat certain Areas for specific Items you need. ( Most regular LS wouldnt go a different way just to get 1 Items for 1 Person ). I know that since it took a while to get the LS going for Attestation Stuff. At that Point a Relic was about 120.000.000 Mil in total. You got some of the Currency back in the End... but yeah.. it took a lot of Gil and a lot of people and a lot of Time ( Years ) back in the day.

so you are saying you would take a "Rich Boy System", over a "Get Lucky System"?

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Needed a decent group(free), needed 500k/run(sell 50 currency, free), needed 100 peices(0.1% drop rate, turn in 100 1 pieces to make 1 at the goblin, free), purchase NO currency @150(on avg in a good shell) a run-50 for the cost of the run for 10000 for a full relic==10000/100 100 runs @1run/3days == 300 days total time needed and 0 gil, consider that most shells did 2/week it was still less than a year. It was not just for the rich. It was for anyone willing to put in the time, who had the dedication and had a group willing to put in the time.

I personally think going that long again would be a mistake, many of us don't want to see a year of 1/3day content to get one persons weapon. On the flip side of that coin, most of us don't want a system where the amount of time and energy put in is arbitrarily decided by the RNG.

The point here is to try to make the system treat everyone equally, which Dyna did(it wasn't nice but was equal, well a couple of the final stages were RNG brutality but done while farming currency that's almost irrelevant). Here between the non-passable drops, and !>10%(from what I've read/heard/seen most are lower by far) drop rates that randomly drop to someone who may not even need that item now. This system is brutal to some and cake for others.

Dyna in it's current state you can solo a weapon in 3~4 months only needing help for the last couple stages to defeat the NMs and such, and that can be done w/ 6 easy. Or at least that's where it was when I quit, but not many cared because you could make an Empy in a few weeks. Only PLDs still bothered of the people that I knew.

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

I can't see any implementation that would allow for relic weapons to be rare that wouldn't lead to just as much complaining. If it's something rare, based on a low chance, then people complain about RNG. If it requires grinding some kind of points, an amount that would encourage few to have the item, then everyone would complain it's too grindy. If it requires you beat some nearly impossible boss, then people would complain its too hard/overtuned.

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Your right people will say it's long/boring/slow/grindy but they won't say it's unfair. The long/boring/slow/grindy discourages those that want more instant gratification, right now anyone that doesn't feel lucky enough or have the gil to toss at the slot machine is pushed away. It's got nothing to do with the time or grind.

I don't think I'm the only person that plays less than enough to do AV/CC/Hamlet 10 times a day but would also be more than happy to do them 3 times a day for some guarantee at progress even if it's gonna take me til 3 days before 2.0 to get it done.

Obviously this also plays into what's done in 2.0 and to create still more content that's simply luck of the draw is going to drive people away. I suspect that this thread alone confirms that, and there's at least 20 other "WTF is with the drop rate BS" threads that are filled with people that almost all agree it's busted. This is the one topic that nearly everyone that actively posts on these forums doesn't devolve into children attacking each others ideas, that's gotta tell you something.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

I humbly disagree. I think the 'uproar' really should be about having to repeat any small 15-30 minute content 50 times. A more enjoyable experience, in my opinion, would be to repeat 150-300 minute content 5 times.

I think this is the route planend for Crystal Tower?

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This I believe is the answer, though the 300 minute(5 hr) is a little long. Nothing over 3hrs inside, it's been my experience that people tend to start to drift off, or maybe that was just in Dyna/Empy farming/FFXI in general.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

That would make it not casual friendly and high inaccessible for most players.

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Some things shouldn't be highly accessible to most players, but nothing should be locked away because a person doesn't play 24/7.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

Casual players can't live without all the content in a game being accessible to them?

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Shitty players shouldn't be able to access everything because they're on alot and good players shouldn't be barred from said content because they don't play enough. Time spent online shouldn't be a deciding factor, within reason, say 2~3hrs should be enough time to go in and do anything once. Though what we ended up with was a little obnoxious.

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

True, but is it a requirement that all content be accessible to casual and dedicated players? And if so, is it to be at the cost of enjoyment to the dedicated player (as it is now with doing the same dungeon 100 time)?

Also, per the player poll, it would not be inaccessible for most players. A large chunk of players do play 2+ hours per day (with many doing 4+ hours).

It is not unreasonable for them to say: Okey, Thursday night, I can use content manager and dedicate 4 hours tonight to finishing crystal tower.

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Even if the average day is less than 2 hrs, you've nearly everyone that can give 1 day a week where they could run, that's how I did Nyzul, didn't have the time to do 4 tags during the week but I'd be damned if i wasn't going on Saturdays.

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Originally Posted by Mikheli

These relics can be obtained if you are casual and hardcore sure it might take longer but that's why you are casual... They aren't gonna make 2 seperate relic quests for casuals/not and it's really the EASIEST mmo to get a relic in. If you are on for a hour. Depending on your group you could do mulitple AV/CC/Hamlet, could even spiritbond to get your materia... Why do casuals always complain when the game is designed to be able to get good gear on casual/hardcore. Just cause it takes you month(s) longer doesn't mean to complain ; ;. If you have a issue become hardcore :P That's all I am saying about the casual/hardcore comments...

Also I am bored maintence is boring xD

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But that's the problem, the hardcore(aka lotta time) could go a month to get it while a casual(aka less time) could get lucky and be done in a week. Whether your someone that plays alot or a little the time playing for the same item should be the same, generally speaking. RL time yeah might take you 2 months but me 8 cause I play 1/4 of the amount that you do. It shouldn't be a maybe though.

I'll also mention that I don't know what this casual/hardcore thing is really. At the end of the day there's people logged in 80 hours a week(actively) that are garbage, others that only play 20 that are pimp. Back in the day the hardcore were people that dedicated time to being good, not just spent alot of time playing. Let's not drift to a system where it's all about time spent in world, or do, I can leave myself logged in while I'm away if the req's for a ??? gear become time logged in.

Don't restrict content to people that can play 6hrs a day everyday, . That's broken. 2~3 hour content with a reasonable delay between entries so it can be consistently scheduled for those that only have 1~3 days of >2 hrs to play. Not broken. Spammable content that takes 20 mins and has shit drop rates, fun?

Do make content a nightmare for people that don't put in time to be decent at their job(s). I don't have time to master them all but I'll be damned if I'm not among the best at 1~3 and with that being the case shouldn't I be allowed to do everything.

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Originally Posted by Madruk

Point being considering the drop rate, it's extremely doubtful. I'd be also curious what the next step of the quest is since that's as far as we know.

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Marduk, Im hoping to be on that step shortly too so i can confirm the rates

i personaly think "some" people post BS drop rates myself (claiming 0/56 i moreso think maybe they went 0/7 with 8 people) and so on, but will see soon for myself

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Some things shouldn't be highly accessible to most players, but nothing should be locked away because a person doesn't play 24/7.

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Shitty players shouldn't be able to access everything because they're on alot and good players shouldn't be barred from said content because they don't play enough. Time spent online shouldn't be a deciding factor, within reason, say 2~3hrs should be enough time to go in and do anything once. Though what we ended up with was a little obnoxious.

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2 of this statement is very contradictionary, one you suggest some content shouldnt be accessible to most players but doesnt lock them away, 3hour content does lock people away that doesnt have that playtime.

2-3hrs is long and you still need time to reform group and such, it will lock people that doesnt have playtime away.

Currently all content is casual friendly and should remain that way, sure currently RNG system does frustates people, they should probably tokenize alot of things, but again how do you keep some things prestige? when you tokenize everything, all become predictable on how long it takes to achieve? how do you maintain something to be a rare? Nobody has come up with solution to this.

It really is "The Ghost of Tanaka" coming into this system. I believe the original intent of the RNG system was to balance out casual and hardcore play. The problem is, we are now back at step one that made FFXIV horrendous in the first place. This game punishes the hardcore by catering the casuals. Making a system that gives chance to both hardcore and casuals to get the best items in the game.

This is most definitely not the way to go in MMO's. The number one rule in MMO's has to be that the hard working should be better rewarded than the ones who don't play as much. I understand you don't have 24/7 to play the game, but some do, and they should be rewarded for all their hard work they put into the game. You can play and catch up at your own pace.

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

Needed a decent group(free),

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Thats naive to think people would do Stuff for free. ( Of course some do, but most dont ).

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needed 500k/run(sell 50 currency, free),

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Run was 1.000.000 7 Years ago and if i would have sell Currency to get the Fee back i was in need to sell 200 ( since some were 5k ), which was a decent amount you could have gotten out of 1 run. So the whole run would have been a waste since i got nothing out of it.

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needed 100 peices(0.1% drop rate, turn in 100 1 pieces to make 1 at the goblin, free), purchase NO currency @150(on avg in a good shell) a run-50 for the cost of the run for 10000 for a full relic==10000/100 100 runs @1run/3days == 300 days total time needed and 0 gil

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I dont think you ever worked on a Relic, since that Math-Example is an naive assessment of the situation like mentioned above and said before. Total Cost if you buy all currency was 120.000.000, no matter if you could have sell some of the Currency to pay the Entry-Fee, or just bought Currency without sponsoring. In the end you would have to do more runs to get the Currency back you sold in the early Progress, to the the total amount you need. So you could have save the Time and not sell any of them.. but no matter how you turn it, it either has costs more time or more gil. And again.. it is really naive to think that everyone was able to have a Linkshell which will run Dynamis all the Time just for 1 guy. I knew Linkshells which did it once a week, once a month, 2 times a week but currency were free lot and so on... and so on.

But here again back to the Topic

The Current Progress in FFXIV CAN obviously be done in 1 Week and not everyone got their Seals before the Patch. I mentioned examples where people started along with the Patch.

Oh apologizes, The situation was hypothetical! Haha. Staying up way past when i should be in bed causes me to write long rants with lots of errors!

As far as I know, no one has completed the Mithril yet.

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Originally Posted by Quatre

Oh apologizes, The situation was hypothetical! Haha. Staying up way past when i should be in bed causes me to write long rants with lots of errors!

As far as I know, no one has completed the Mithril yet.

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Was still a good statement. Your FFXI example I liked. At least in FFXI everyone was on a equal playing field and everyone had to do an equal amount of work to get their relic. In FFXIV, you can complete this quest line in a week, or in months, it all depends on your luck, which is the completely wrong thing to do.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Was still a good statement. Your FFXI example I liked. At least in FFXI everyone was on a equal playing field and everyone had to be an equal amount of work to get their relic. In FFXIV, you can complete this quest line in a week, or in months, it all depends on your luck, which is the completely wrong thing to do.

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but again in all fairness, how many times could you enter dynamis in a week to get relic?

how many times can you enter hamlet in a week?


thats the BIGGEST factor in this

in 11 you had to take your time
in 14 you can spend more time to get it quicker

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Originally Posted by Nero

Thats naive to think people would do Stuff for free. ( Of course some do, but most dont ).



Run was 1.000.000 7 Years ago and if i would have sell Currency to get the Fee back i was in need to sell 200 ( since some were 5k ), which was a decent amount you could have gotten out of 1 run. So the whole run would have been a waste since i got nothing out of it.



I dont think you ever worked on a Relic, since that Math-Example is an naive assessment of the situation like mentioned above and said before. Total Cost if you buy all currency was 120.000.000, no matter if you could have sell some of the Currency to pay the Entry-Fee, or just bought Currency without sponsoring. In the end you would have to do more runs to get the Currency back you sold in the early Progress, to the the total amount you need. So you could have save the Time and not sell any of them.. but no matter how you turn it, it either has costs more time or more gil. And again.. it is really naive to think that everyone was able to have a Linkshell which will run Dynamis all the Time just for 1 guy. I knew Linkshells which did it once a week, once a month, 2 times a week but currency were free lot and so on... and so on.

But here again back to the Topic

The Current Progress in FFXIV CAN obviously be done in 1 Week and not everyone got their Seals before the Patch. I mentioned examples where people started along with the Patch.

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You are so wrong i created an dyna shell for my relic in one day, got 30 ppl to sign up in a few hrs of shouting. 99% of the ppl was fine with going into dyna trying to get AF armor and didn't really care about currency. Also there isn't a set price i could have paid, 180 mil while the other player paid 120 mil depends on how much you was willing to spend outside dyna Also you could trade 100 byne bills for an 100 byne bill or other way around so you did not have to grind for 100's from boss monsters.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

but again in all fairness, how many times could you enter dynamis in a week to get relic?

how many times can you enter hamlet in a week?


thats the BIGGEST factor in this

in 11 you had to take your time
in 14 you can spend more time to get it quicker

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Yet in Dynamis, you were given currency towards your goal each time, and AF2 armor to go on top of that. Point is, in FFXI, you didn't leave empty handed. Someone always got a relic, you always got your currency.

At this point, I rather have a long time restriction on AV/CC than deal with the mass amount of disappointments I get every half hour or so.

In the end I'm sure like with everything else, SE will cave in and hand these relics out and probably make Legacy items take only 2 days to obtain.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Yet in Dynamis, you were given currency towards your goal each time, and AF2 armor to go on top of that. Point is, in FFXI, you didn't leave empty handed. Someone always got a relic, you always got your currency.

At this point, I rather have a long time restriction on AV/CC than deal with the mass amount of disappointments I get every half hour or so.

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you do realize, that af2 armor on top of that, pretty much described militia/darklight and other drops you can get while getting seals


also, getting 9 seals vs gettign 100k whatever currency, is a HUGE difference in number requirements, say it all you want, getting that 5-10 currency per run vs all you actualy need(when split) is not "noticable progress" and if you look at groups pooling currency to 1 player, nothing stops people from doing that here either, so both examples are the EXACT SAME, with 14s being quicker and easier to get then 11s


going back to av/cc its the same deal with "other gear" that can drop, from ther the concern goes towards the seal drops which will still come quicker then the "how many years/months" itl take you to collect dynamis currency, you just seriously cant compare

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Originally Posted by Quatre

This post hits the nail on the head.

My friend is extremely lucky with hamlet seals, he's completed his before many of us have even gotten 2. (Same number of runs, mind you)
He also double melded his weapon on first try. It only took him 10 runs in AV to get his Mithril Ore, And 7 in CC to get his items.


Me on the other hand, have done literally 5 times the hamlets and still dont have 5 seals, because of crappy lucky. I've attempted to double meld 7 weapons. I will go 3/80 and then 3/58 on the AV/CC items.


There should never be a system in which if you get luck you can complete in a ridiculously fast amount of time, and if you get unlucky... never complete at all.

In the top instance, you could realistically complete the relic in a week.

While the bottom instance, you can't even fit that ALL in before 2.0

It should be a solid 2months of consistent content (2-3 hours a day). That's why people are complaining it and saying FFXI's system was better. The amount of work you put into getting the currencies was the same no matter who you were.

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Sorry, along with Madruk i'm going to call Bullshit as well. This is not getting lucky one time. This is getting lucky 6 times in a row with a drop rate that is well below 5%. Unless your friend can provide proof of his in-game text chat for the quest then I can't believe this. Call me skeptical but based on our rates I think you're talking high water to prove a point.

Also to TheVedis. The post I did about our drop rates is fact. I am the only one to have received a Mythril in 2 and a half days of constant raid spam. There is a chance that one of the Twelve direly HATES us but I doubt it. It's a crap drop rate, and it's not possible to trade the item.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Sorry, along with Madruk i'm going to call Bullshit as well. This is not getting lucky one time. This is getting lucky 6 times in a row with a drop rate that is well below 5%. Unless your friend can provide proof of his in-game text chat for the quest then I can't believe this.

Also to TheVedis. The post I did about our drop rates is fact. I am the only one to have received a Mythril in 2 and a half days of constant raid spam. There is a chance that one of the Twelve direly HATES us but I doubt it. It's a crap drop rate, and it's not possible to trade the item.

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that may be the case with some, but im finding it very interesting that most drop rates people post, are in sets of 8

0/8, 0/16, and so on, so i can pretty much assume, and so can others, that even if you are telling the truth, several others are posting it as such where they are counting 1 run as a 0/8 drop

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

you do realize, that af2 armor on top of that, pretty much described militia/darklight and other drops you can get while getting seals


also, getting 9 seals vs gettign 100k whatever currency, is a HUGE difference in number requirements, say it all you want, getting that 5-10 currency per run vs all you actualy need(when split) is not "noticable progress" and if you look at groups pooling currency to 1 player, nothing stops people from doing that here either, so both examples are the EXACT SAME, with 14s being quicker and easier to get then 11s


going back to av/cc its the same deal with "other gear" that can drop, from ther the concern goes towards the seal drops which will still come quicker then the "how many years/months" itl take you to collect dynamis currency, you just seriously cant compare

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First off you guys need to stop comparing these relics to xi's cause they are not even in the same field as FFXI Relics was OP and let you do things you could not normally do like soloing 2 IT mobs at the same time and deserve the time it took to obtain them. These AF(Relic) weapons are not even in the OP field, they just are random to obtain. I think the only onesdefending this system don't want to actually work for them they just want to luck out and finish it in a week or 2.


Vedis only thing you need to get thru your head it does not matter on the renter time only thing you need to know is XI's relic was an progression, and XIV AF weps are an roll of dice.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

that may be the case with some, but im finding it very interesting that most drop rates people post, are in sets of 8

0/8, 0/16, and so on, so i can pretty much assume, and so can others, that even if you are telling the truth, several others are posting it as such where they are counting 1 run as a 0/8 drop

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When I posted 0/56 that was 56 runs of actual effort (perhaps I should have put 1/56). That would be 448 chests total with only one drop (which was mine) so 1/448 individual chests.

I wouldn't have complained at all if we were 0/7. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

When I posted 0/56 that was 56 runs of actual effort (perhaps I should have put 1/56). That would be 448 chests total with only one drop (which was mine) so 1/448 individual chests.

I wouldn't have complained at all if we were 0/7. Lol.

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yeah, its just getting a little suspicious how everyone seems to post 0/multiple of 8 now though, getting to be a trend

and @Firon, the hamlet seals are not a roll of the dice, ive now seen 10 drop in 13 runs, ive heard others doing it getting tons of them too, sure they arent going as quickly as everyone wants since you gotta split that with 8 people, but it sure seems to be dropping at a healthy rate from the 60k chest to me

and i sure as hell am doing the work, im farming tons of items to get top 20, top 3 and so on
im taking the time to originzie events weekly

im doing alot of damn work so dont say im defending it cuz i dont want to work, im defending it cuz it sounds like others dont want to work, or even moreso, dont even understand whats really going ona nd are assuming its the most horrible drop rate chances in the game and arent even going to start it, and judge it thusly, without any first hand knowledge because of idiots on here who decide to majorly overexagerate everything they post

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Originally Posted by Firon

You are so wrong i created an dyna shell for my relic in one day, got 30 ppl to sign up in a few hrs of shouting.

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Where comes all the naivete from? I said not everyone had a LS like that. If you had one or built it up, its good for you but again not everyone had that or was able to, or found people to do that.

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Originally Posted by Firon

99% of the ppl was fine with going into dyna trying to get AF armor and didn't really care about currency. Also there isn't a set price i could have paid, 180 mil while the other player paid 120 mil depends on how much you was willing to spend outside dyna Also you could trade 100 byne bills for an 100 byne bill or other way around so you did not have to grind for 100's from boss monsters.

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Of course you could trade.. you also could have trade 100x100 for a 10.000, but whats your point? Where all those bynes are coming from? Either from buying them ( you need Gil ), getting them from Dyna ( Gil+Time ). It still was a "Rich Boy System" back in the day and Relics were not really for everyone ( i actually liked that ).

So where i am "so wrong"? Cause you were someone to build up a LS for your purpose while most people were not able to do that? Pretty much selfcentered and far away from the Basicpoint, dont you think?

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Yet in Dynamis, you were given currency towards your goal each time, and AF2 armor to go on top of that. Point is, in FFXI, you didn't leave empty handed.

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You dont leave in FFXIV Empty handed. AV/CC and Hamlet also drops Gear, but people tend to ingore that obviously.

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Originally Posted by Firon

First off you guys need to stop comparing these relics to xi's cause they are not even in the same field FFXI Relics was OP and let you do things you could not normally do like soloing 2 IT mobs at the same time and deserve the time it took to obtain them.

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My brother's Blue Mage can kill 24 IT mobs at a time. :|

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These AF(Relic) weapons are not even in the OP field, they just are random to obtain

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They're not AF, they're Relic weapons. Also, do you know how much the 'Enhance' effect is on the weapons to know if they're OP or not? Now as for the random to obtain"...so are you saying I can wake up tomorrow and obtain my Curtana and Holy Shield or Gae Bolg?

Otherwise..they're not random at all to obtain, it will take time much like FFXI's Relics took time. A better comparison would be Mythics, which takes time as well as a "random" chance given that you'll either get a coinpurse or not in salvage.

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I think the only onesdefending this system don't want to actually work for them

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25k Seals = Work.
Farming/Creating/Melding your weapon = Work (Sorry you don't get lucky leveling a craft to 50.)
Fighting Hamlet and accruing points = Work.

If anything, you can say the ones who are against this just want a handout. If you say that's incorrect, then it's also incorrect to say the ones "defending the system doesn't want to do work."

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Originally Posted by Nero

You dont leave in FFXIV Empty handed. AV/CC and Hamlet also drops Gear, but people tend to ingore that obviously.

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people ignore this fact with a passion
and add to it that in 11, do you remember the rng involved in the relic drops there? it was probly worse then we have here except for the fact you have hundreds of mobs that can drop them, not just a chest

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

you do realize, that af2 armor on top of that, pretty much described militia/darklight and other drops you can get while getting seals


also, getting 9 seals vs gettign 100k whatever currency, is a HUGE difference in number requirements, say it all you want, getting that 5-10 currency per run vs all you actualy need(when split) is not "noticable progress" and if you look at groups pooling currency to 1 player, nothing stops people from doing that here either, so both examples are the EXACT SAME, with 14s being quicker and easier to get then 11s


going back to av/cc its the same deal with "other gear" that can drop, from ther the concern goes towards the seal drops which will still come quicker then the "how many years/months" itl take you to collect dynamis currency, you just seriously cant compare

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You completely miss the point. You are comparing "progress" to "luck". I don't want the best weapon in the game because I was lucky, I want it because I worked my ass off for it. I don't want to be 1/1 on an item when everyone else is 0/50 or 0/100, it isn't fair to the person who works just as hard to get the relic. What we were trying to say is that FFXI played an equal playing field for everyone, and had to gather a certain amount of currency to proceed.

Also. In the Dynamis shells I was in, someone sponsored it most of the time and took all the currency. Much better route to take if you were going for relic.

Also, can't compare AF2 to Militia/Darklight because it drops off mobs, not on a boss. And you really had to be unlucky if you didn't see 3-4 AF2 pieces drop. It may not be what you wanted, but something always dropped and someone wanted it (Unless it was Beastmaster, everyone and their mother's had full BST AF2 set in my LS. :P).

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Originally Posted by Zezlar

Sorry, along with Madruk i'm going to call Bullshit as well. This is not getting lucky one time. This is getting lucky 6 times in a row with a drop rate that is well below 5%. Unless your friend can provide proof of his in-game text chat for the quest then I can't believe this. Call me skeptical but based on our rates I think you're talking high water.

Also to TheVedis. The post I did about our drop rates is fact. I am the only one to have received a Mythril in 2 and a half days of constant raid spam. There is a chance that one of the Twelve direly HATES us but I doubt it. It's a crap drop rate, and it's not possible to trade the item.

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He already said he was giving an example and it wasn't a person in particular he was talking about.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

My brother's Blue Mage can kill 24 IT mobs at a time. :|



They're not AF, they're Relic weapons. Also, do you know how much the 'Enhance' effect is on the weapons to know if they're OP or not? Now as for the random to obtain"...so are you saying I can wake up tomorrow and obtain my Curtana and Holy Shield or Gae Bolg?

Otherwise..they're not random at all to obtain, it will take time much like FFXI's Relics took time. A better comparison would be Mythics, which takes time as well as a "random" chance given that you'll either get a coinpurse or not in salvage.



25k Seals = Work.
Farming/Creating/Melding your weapon = Work (Sorry you don't get lucky leveling a craft to 50.)
Fighting Hamlet and accruing points = Work.

If anything, you can say the ones who are against this just want a handout. If you say that's incorrect, then it's also incorrect to say the ones "defending the system doesn't want to do work."

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No these are af weps they just decided to change the name to relics >_>. Good job FFXI Jebus for pointing out the one PART of the quest that's actually work. Yes you can wake up and get everything done in one day as long as the drops are random you can wake up get all that shit in one go. Like i said in a post wayy back in this thread in 1 day less than 2 hrs i went 1/1 triple meld, 5/5(3/5 of those was tier IV materia with +19 on the materia) on dbl melds no fails that's random just like this system is.

@ Vedis that's why the shit is Random, You got 10/13 and some ppl go 2/20, you sound like the idiots who say well i got my 7 ifrit weps in 40 kills i don't think the drop rate is bad at all. Like i said you guys just want to luck out to hope you get it done in a week or so.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Isn't this what cause the whining to begin with...................... it's not casual friendly......? it takes years for casual? lol and now you want to add something to alieniate them? and if they can live with not everything in game in accessible, this thread won't appear.

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Hardly.

Not everyone opposed to the current relic system is 'casual'.

On the other hand, I was being rhetorical anyways.

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Originally Posted by Firon

No these are af weps they just decided to change the name to relics >_>. Good job FFXI Jebus for pointing out the one PART of the quest that's actually work. Yes you can wake up and get everything done in one day as long as the drops are random you can wake up get all that shit in one go.

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By law of probability, those who didn't start on this in may should be near the ending point and waiting for their relic to be released by now, then.